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914World.com _ FS/WTB: 914 Parts _ FS: Pair of "NOS" Early Front Brake Calipers
Posted by: GregAmy Nov 19 2021, 05:02 PM
Short version: for sale, a pair of "NOS" front brake calipers for early 914s, painted red.
Long version: I had these calipers advertised in another thread a few weeks ago; these came to me as spares for my 1974 street car. A fellow 914World buyer snagged them.
Unfortunately, when the buyer went to install them he discovered the offset was wrong; after measuring the offsets between those calipers and some I have at home we discovered that these were not for my 1974 car but instead for the earlier cars (1970-1972? Someone please verify the years.)
Back story is that a prior owner of my 1974 street car installed BMW calipers but instead of milling the mounting ears to correct the offset he chose to install the early rotors onto my car. Why he also had a set of NOS calipers is beyond me, but I guess that gave him the opportunity to put those on later.
Regardless, I need to "make good" on this transaction. I am shipping another set of calipers to the buyer and he's agreed to hold these NOS ones and ship to the new buyer.
As noted, I'm convinced they're NOS and the buyer confirmed this. Before he realized they would not fit he painted them red, so it's very very clean.
Asking $250 shipped Priority Mail CONUS. PMB gets $350 for a pair of rebuilt (plus $200 core if you don't have that) so I think you'll be pleased with these.
Thanks, and let me know if you have any questions! - Greg
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Posted by: 914Sixer Nov 20 2021, 09:28 PM
Got to be LATE calipers because they are dual bleeder and have thick brake pads.
Posted by: GregAmy Nov 21 2021, 06:49 AM
Hmmm....well, the offsets indicate that they're for early rotors. They are 3mm farther inward than the late calipers. When the buyer tried to install them on his 1974 car they were contacting the outer face of the brake rotor.
This means they are even more rare than I thought! Once in a lifetime opportunity for someone to have a set of NOS new-style, dual-bleeder, bolt-through calipers on their older car. 
I'm confident someone can use these new calipers. I need to make the situation right for the buyer, all proceeds go directly to him. Let me know what you need!
Sorry for the difference in scale; the buyer has the new red ones and I have the used yellow ones. The red is the ones I'm selling, the yellow are a set of known-1974 used calipers I have on hand (I'm shipping the unpainted ones to the buyer for his car). You'll note that the distance from the mounting face to the center of the rotor slot is 3mm, exactly the difference between early and late calipers. So I'm very confident these rotors will bolt up to an early car.
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Posted by: 914Sixer Nov 21 2021, 07:19 AM
There was a rare 3rd NLA rotor that was used in the 72-73 transition period. Let you used the new style caliper on the old style strut. Maybe Eric Shea can shed some light.
Posted by: PatMc Nov 22 2021, 07:32 AM
Hmmm....well, the offsets indicate that they're for early rotors. They are 3mm farther inward than the late calipers. When the buyer tried to install them on his 1974 car they were contacting the outer face of the brake rotor.
This means they are even more rare than I thought! Once in a lifetime opportunity for someone to have a set of NOS new-style, dual-bleeder, bolt-through calipers on their older car.
I'm confident someone can use these new calipers. I need to make the situation right for the buyer, all proceeds go directly to him. Let me know what you need!
Sorry for the difference in scale; the buyer has the new red ones and I have the used yellow ones. The red is the ones I'm selling, the yellow are a set of known-1974 used calipers I have on hand (I'm shipping the unpainted ones to the buyer for his car). You'll note that the distance from the mounting face to the center of the rotor slot is 3mm, exactly the difference between early and late calipers. So I'm very confident these rotors will bolt up to an early car.
I had a customer in England run into the same thing...I just saw the outside half and assumed, since there were no nuts, that they were the late calipers, but they didn't fit. I believe you have an early inner half and a late outer half bolted together there...that someone has added another bleeder to for whatever reason. I have one core that's the same way. Or it's some strange short production run caliper that isn't calaloged anywhere. One sure way to tell would be to pop out the inner and outer pistons and measure them. If they're the same, then the caliper was designed that way. If the inner piston is shorter, then it's a "hybrid".
Posted by: GregAmy Nov 23 2021, 04:49 PM
Ok, so lots of guesses but can't anyone verifiy the identity of these? Surely someone can use a set of NOS front calipers?
I measured up a bunch of various calipers I have laying around. They are:
- A pair of known 1974 (late) Porsche 914 calipers
- A pair of BMW ATE calipers that were milled to fit a late 914.
- A pair of unmodified BMW ATE caliper, same vintage, the ones we install
- A pair of BMW Girling calipers, same vintage BMW 320i
- These NOS calipers
I took some key measurements from them, as follows:
- Slot Width: the distance of the slot where the rotor inserts
- Mount Width: the thickness of the mounting ears
- Mount-to-slot: the distance from the mounting surface of the caliper to the inner wall of the slot
- Offset: the calculate distance from the mounting face to the center of the slot
Late 914
SW: 13mm
MW: 17mm
M2S: 19mm
Offset: 25.5mm
BMW ATE Modified
SW: 15.5
MW: 15
M2S: 18
Offset: 25.75
BMW ATE Unmodified
SW: 16
MW: 18
M2S: 15
Offset: 23
BMW Girling
SW: 16
MW: 18
M2S: 16
Offset: 24
These 914 "NOS" calipers*
SW: 13.5
MW: unknown
M2S: 16
Offset: 23
*Measured off the photo John sent to me, attached in a post above.
Seems to me that late 914s need an offset of around 25.5-26, and early needs around 23. So what this tells me is that these calipers will fit an early 914; the offset is defintiely wrong for a late 914 because they will not fit on John's car; the outer slot edge contacts the outer face of the rotor.
I did not see any evidence of the mounting ears being modified in any way. And no evidence of someone bolting different halves of calipers together (why would anyone do that?) John can review them and see how it looks to him.
Was this some weird crossover caliper, with the early offset but the later hardware? Who knows. But if someone wants some NOS calipers for their early car, or want to mill off ~2.5mm to use these on their late car, then these are the ones for them.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1110 , any thoughts?
If no one wants them then I'll simply refund John's money and I'll toss them into the "beer money barrel" to go to the scrapper to be sold by the pound (with, apparently, these other sets of calipers; one only has so much space...)
Let me know if you have interest.
Greg
Posted by: GregAmy Nov 25 2021, 10:14 AM
Nothing? Here's what they looked like before painting.
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Posted by: PatMc Nov 25 2021, 03:58 PM
Nothing? Here's what they looked like before painting.
In your picture with the yellow caliper I see an old late caliper next to it...lay the ruler on it just like you with the red caliper in the picture above...
I'm looking for the distance from the part that shows between 2 3/4" to 3 1/4" in the red caliper ruler picture
Wondering if this dimension is the same or not between the known late caliper and the mystery caliper
Posted by: GregAmy Nov 25 2021, 07:14 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=25669 , in the photos above, the red ones are the "NOS" ones. They are the same calipers as the ones two posts above, but the buyer painted them red when he received them, before test-fitting and finding that the slot is hitting the outer face of the rotor on his 1974. Looks like he replaced the pads, too.
The photo of the yellow and unpainted older ones, both are 914 "late" calipers. Exactly the same dimensions, I measured the yellow one but I've already shipped the unpainted older ones to the buyer so he has a set of known-late calipers.
So...where ya going with this? What are you thinking?
Posted by: PatMc Nov 25 2021, 10:48 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=25669 , in the photos above, the red ones are the "NOS" ones. They are the same calipers as the ones two posts above, but the buyer painted them red when he received them, before test-fitting and finding that the slot is hitting the outer face of the rotor on his 1974. Looks like he replaced the pads, too.
The photo of the yellow and unpainted older ones, both are 914 "late" calipers. Exactly the same dimensions, I measured the yellow one but I've already shipped the unpainted older ones to the buyer so he has a set of known-late calipers.
So...where ya going with this? What are you thinking?
Early:
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Posted by: PatMc Nov 25 2021, 10:49 PM
Late
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Posted by: PatMc Nov 25 2021, 10:56 PM
I'm seeing the dimension in your picture to be about 1.5", which would correspond to the dimension of what we know to be the earlier casting, so it would have the shorter piston in it. I guess it's the mid model unicorn set.... Double the price due to rarity.
Here's another set...car is a '73. I'm working on getting a VIN.
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Posted by: GregAmy Nov 26 2021, 08:26 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10179
John, when you get the replacement calipers (should be today?) take those measurements above on them.
So why the crossover? What's the story on it?
I don't need "double the price", I just need to make John whole. $250 shipped for the pair would cover that.
Posted by: Geezer914 Nov 26 2021, 08:35 AM
The red calipers measure 1.537 inches. The new ones that fit from your race car measure 1.714 inches So the red calipers fit 70-72 cars with early rotors.
Posted by: GregAmy Nov 26 2021, 09:30 AM
Thanks John! So the ones I sent this week off the race car bolt up Ok? That's a relief, glad to read that. This supports they're late calipers and there's nothing funky on my race car*.
So, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=25669 , what are we looking at here? - Greg
*My 1974 street car came to me with BMW calipers already installed. However, it appears that to make them fit, instead of milling the mounting face a prior owner installed early rotors on the car. It's a "474" car so there's no doubt this was a retrofit. My 1974 race car, also a "474", has/had the correct late brakes on it.
Posted by: PatMc Nov 26 2021, 10:37 AM
Thanks John! So the ones I sent this week off the race car bolt up Ok? That's a relief, glad to read that. This supports they're late calipers and there's nothing funky on my race car*.
So, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=25669 , what are we looking at here? - Greg
*My 1974 street car came to me with BMW calipers already installed. However, it appears that to make them fit, instead of milling the mounting face a prior owner installed early rotors on the car. It's a "474" car so there's no doubt this was a retrofit. My 1974 race car, also a "474", has/had the correct late brakes on it.
A different version of the early caliper…I guess? I have one core like this, and customer in England with a set…and yours…are the only ones I’ve seen after handling hundreds.
Posted by: GregAmy Nov 26 2021, 10:58 AM
Thank you, I appreciate the info.
I hope someone can use these.
Posted by: PatMc Nov 26 2021, 11:11 AM
Thank you, I appreciate the info.
I hope someone can use these.
Just sell them as early fronts.
Posted by: Geezer914 Nov 29 2021, 07:06 PM
Bump.
Posted by: GregAmy Dec 10 2021, 08:18 AM
So I take it that no one has any interest in a late-style caliper designed to fit the early cars...?
Posted by: GregAmy Dec 25 2021, 08:10 PM
I am blown away that we have had absolutely zero interest in these rare NOS calipers. I mean, literally, zero response.
Not sure what I plant to do with these, but I'm reimbursing the prior buyer and if someone wants to PM me with an offer, grab it now. Otherwise...well, I have no idea. They're worth about as much as scrap metal to me right now.
GA
Posted by: Shivers Dec 26 2021, 09:51 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=15565 Seems like a sign of the teener times, you've got Unicorn shoes for sale. Purists, unless they have one of those few that ran those particular binders, they won't want them. No benefit for the owner that wants to upgrade. Maybe if you could figure out the VIN spread when these were used. Bet there are lots of owners that have no idea what is on the front of their car. But they do know their VIN and may be looking for extra parts. Good luck.
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