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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Need An Oil Breather Suggestion
Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 10 2009, 06:38 PM
My oil breather hose just dead ends in my cooling "well". What a decent, affordable (like $50 or less) breather box that I can just vent into the atmosphere of the engine bay, pulling off the oil and not throwing it into my engine?
Posted by: Racer Chris Oct 10 2009, 08:12 PM
a decent, affordable (like $50 or less) breather box that I can just vent into the atmosphere of the engine bay
Why spend any money at all? Next time you change the oil just save one bottle to route the hose into.
(yes, I am being sarcastic)
Posted by: tat2dphreak Oct 10 2009, 08:47 PM
you can get little empi breathers for not much, look at vw places. I'll see if I have a pic of mine...
Posted by: tat2dphreak Oct 10 2009, 08:51 PM
here's the best pic I could find, I have the head venst and the vent for the oil breather going into it, on the firewall(though I will probably move it to the back wall of the engine bay)
here's a similar one:
http://www.vwparts.net/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=BP3043&Store_Code=VWP&search=breather+box&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high=
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Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 10 2009, 09:30 PM
Why would you want to move it to the back wall?
By head vents, are you talking about vented valve covers?
here's the best pic I could find, I have the head venst and the vent for the oil breather going into it, on the firewall(though I will probably move it to the back wall of the engine bay)
here's a similar one:
http://www.vwparts.net/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=BP3043&Store_Code=VWP&search=breather+box&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high=
Posted by: Racer Chris Oct 10 2009, 11:30 PM
Why would you want to move it to the back wall?
By head vents, are you talking about vented valve covers?
Its less obtrusive when located at the back.
On some engines, there are 1/2" dia. vent tubes on the heads, next to the intake ports.
The stock location is the best place to add them if your engine doesn't already have them, but it is a bit of work, especially when done with the engine installed.
Sometimes vents are added to the valve covers but they are below the tin so hose routing is a challenge.
Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 11 2009, 07:23 AM
Gotcha...thanks. Guess my engine has no vent tubes. Hey.....did you clean all the baked beans outta that can before you started welding on it? 
Why would you want to move it to the back wall?
By head vents, are you talking about vented valve covers?
Its less obtrusive when located at the back.
On some engines, there are 1/2" dia. vent tubes on the heads, next to the intake ports.
The stock location is the best place to add them if your engine doesn't already have them, but it is a bit of work, especially when done with the engine installed.
Sometimes vents are added to the valve covers but they are below the tin so hose routing is a challenge.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Oct 11 2009, 09:36 AM
my reason for moving it to the back is so I can put new insulation on the firewall. pretty simple.
Posted by: Racer Chris Oct 11 2009, 09:39 AM
Gotcha...thanks. Guess my engine has no vent tubes. Hey.....did you clean all the baked beans outta that can before you started welding on it?
My "baked beans" make Tangerine Racing Breather Cans more efficient at separating oil from the crankcase vapors, and returning them to the engine automatically, than any other product on the market.
You should seriously consider adding vents to the top of your cylinder heads.
Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 11 2009, 11:51 AM
I have no insulation on my firewall.
my reason for moving it to the back is so I can put new insulation on the firewall. pretty simple.
Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 11 2009, 11:52 AM
How do I do that while the engien is installed without getting shit in the engine?
Gotcha...thanks. Guess my engine has no vent tubes. Hey.....did you clean all the baked beans outta that can before you started welding on it?
My "baked beans" make Tangerine Racing Breather Cans more efficient at separating oil from the crankcase vapors, and returning them to the engine automatically, than any other product on the market.
You should seriously consider adding vents to the top of your cylinder heads.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Oct 11 2009, 01:03 PM
you can vent the valve covers with fittings, which isn't quite as good, but I have seen it. other than that, you would have to drop the engine, pull the heads and have a machine shop put the fitting in the proper head spot.
Posted by: ejm Oct 11 2009, 02:02 PM
I've drilled and tapped the heads with the engine assembled but not installed. You need to be careful when the drill drops thru not to hit the valve spring and to keep chips out of the engine.
Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 11 2009, 02:25 PM
Yeah? How does one pull that off?
I've drilled and tapped the heads with the engine assembled but not installed. You need to be careful when the drill drops thru not to hit the valve spring and to keep chips out of the engine.
Posted by: SirAndy Oct 11 2009, 02:50 PM
Why spend any money at all? Next time you change the oil just save one bottle to route the hose into.
What? You don't like my Gatorade bottle ???
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Posted by: Gint Oct 11 2009, 04:21 PM
BTDT Pull the motor. Pop the valve covers off. Drill the head. Insert tube or thread the hole for pipe thread and screw in a fitting. On mine the hole I drilled ended up being a just a little too large for a true press fit. I used a piece of 7/16 or 1/2" (I can't remember exactly now) stainless steel tube. Mixed up a little JB weld and spread on the tube where it fit into the hole and then formed a very small bead around the tube at the top of the head. Done.
I had to replace one of those while I was at it because I hit one with the drill bit.
Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 11 2009, 04:57 PM
Looks better than that bean can.
Why spend any money at all? Next time you change the oil just save one bottle to route the hose into.
What? You don't like my Gatorade bottle ???
Posted by: Racer Chris Oct 11 2009, 06:26 PM
Looks better than that bean can.
Looks like you have your solution.
You'll have money left over for a wash and wax too.
Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 11 2009, 07:30 PM
I'm just gonna stick a filtered cigarette on the end of the hose.
Seriously...since my heads aren't vented, I'm just looking for for a catch-all for the end of my filler vent hose that will vent to the atmosphere. Is there a specific breather can that just has a single entry point or do I need to block off some? I;m guessing Ill wind up with an EMPI type breather can.
Looks better than that bean can.
Looks like you have your solution.
You'll have money left over for a wash and wax too.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Oct 11 2009, 08:27 PM
I think you'll have to block off some.
Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 11 2009, 08:54 PM
Chewing gum? Piece of potato?
I think you'll have to block off some.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Oct 11 2009, 09:09 PM
sure, use a potato... rest of us would use a rubber port block off, or if you are really cheap, use a piece of rubber hose with a bolt in it, and a clamp.
Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 11 2009, 09:19 PM
If I can't find a suitable potato, I was going to put some kind of gasket (rubber?) inside the ports not used. Wouldn't a piece of rubber hose with a clamp be more expensive?
sure, use a potato... rest of us would use a rubber port block off, or if you are really cheap, use a piece of rubber hose with a bolt in it, and a clamp.
Posted by: bandjoey Oct 11 2009, 11:04 PM
OK I'll ask the dumb question. What's the damage to vent only from the oil filler to the breather box, and not back into the heads (assuming there's no head vent)??? Thanks Bill
Posted by: tat2dphreak Oct 11 2009, 11:12 PM
You probably have a small piece of hose laying around somewhere and maybe a 0.05 bolt too leaving another nickel clamp to rustle up or try "new" potatoes
Bill, I think it's good to vent out of the heads is the point.. Just another place to let pressure escape, that's my guess anyway
Posted by: McMark Oct 12 2009, 12:04 AM
Not a dumb question at all.
Technically, you're not venting back into the heads, your venting the heads as well as the case.
But if you have no head vents, you're not in a BAD position, you're just not in the best condition. Venting the case is necessary, venting the heads is preferable. The older your motor (more blow-by) and/or the higher you're revving, the more venting you need.
Posted by: SirAndy Oct 12 2009, 12:13 AM
Not a dumb question at all.
Technically, you're not venting back into the heads, your venting the heads as well as the case.
But if you have no head vents, you're not in a BAD position, you're just not in the best condition. Venting the case is necessary, venting the heads is preferable. The older your motor (more blow-by) and/or the higher you're revving, the more venting you need.
And just to confuse you even more, at lower rpm, the head ports actually have negative pressure, thus sucking in air and oil from the breather.
The system needs to be open to the atmosphere somewhere, otherwise you're going to blow the main seals out of your engine.
The idea is simply to not have a mist of oil all over your engine compartment. On the factory FI, the oil vapors are routed back into the air-filter and burnt.
The breather boxes used with carbs are still open to the atmosphere, they're not closed. But they have a sponge inside to collect oil vapors which will condense and drain back into the engine when the motor is shut off or on idle.
Andy
Posted by: tat2dphreak Oct 12 2009, 07:03 AM
Double post, damn phone
Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 12 2009, 07:12 AM
Where...where...? 
Double post, damn phone
Posted by: pcar9146guy Oct 12 2009, 07:41 AM
Even though this is used on a six, it's still a single port tank. Got it at Summit Racing. One inlet, ball valve drain, filter, and mounting provision. 
Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 12 2009, 08:21 AM
Nice. That's what I had in mind, but ordered an Empi this morning. 
Even though this is used on a six, it's still a single port tank. Got it at Summit Racing. One inlet, ball valve drain, filter, and mounting provision.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Oct 12 2009, 09:22 AM
Where...where...?
Double post, damn phone
I edited the 2nd post to say "double post" since we can't delete the posts. it was the post from last night again. when I opened up safari on my iphone it re-submitted the post
Posted by: agentblr Oct 12 2009, 01:57 PM
Another dumb question: why did the 75-76 cars not have the head vents drilled out like the early cars. They just vented the case ,maybe a money saving tactic ??
Posted by: tomeric914 Oct 12 2009, 02:20 PM
Looks better than that bean can.
The EMPI arrangement may look better, but if you actually drive the car, the sponge can get saturated with moisture resulting in a misty film all over the engine. Tech inspectors LOVE to see that. BTDT
Chris's oil separator is the way to go.
http://www.tangerineracing.com/engine.htm#Engine%20Breather%20Can
Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 12 2009, 02:32 PM
They don't have tech inspectors in my neighborhood. 
In all seriousness, I'm not racing, and Chris' can was just too expensive for something I really don't need for my use of the car. Right now O have a bare hose sticking into my cooling well and just wanted something to catch the oil mist to keep my engine a little cleaner. I'll keep my sponge clean.
Looks better than that bean can.
The EMPI arrangement may look better, but if you actually drive the car, the sponge can get saturated with moisture resulting in a misty film all over the engine. Tech inspectors LOVE to see that. BTDT
Chris's oil separator is the way to go.
http://www.tangerineracing.com/engine.htm#Engine%20Breather%20Can
Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 13 2009, 10:15 AM
with the empi version you will STILL have to find a way for the oil that puddles under the piece of soft foam (that is in the breather box) to return to the engine or be prepared to sop it up on a regular basis. if you figure out a way to return the spent oil to the engine you have to mount the box high enough so the return lines all run down hill. chris's cannister style drains back to the fill tower base via a small line and a fitting tapped into the base. spending a little extra on the front end when solving a problem, eliminates bs hassles at the finish.
Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 18 2009, 09:39 AM
Where can I get a few of those? If not, whattaya think about siliconing in a coupla aluminum discs?
sure, use a potato... rest of us would use a rubber port block off, or if you are really cheap, use a piece of rubber hose with a bolt in it, and a clamp.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Oct 18 2009, 10:07 AM
you can get those at FLAPS. or the piece of hose
Posted by: stephenaki Oct 18 2009, 10:56 AM
a decent, affordable (like $50 or less) breather box that I can just vent into the atmosphere of the engine bay
Why spend any money at all? Next time you change the oil just save one bottle to route the hose into.
(yes, I am being sarcastic)
But then again, that's exactly what the German 'Porsche specialists' did with my tube.
Posted by: stephenaki Oct 18 2009, 11:04 AM
After reading through the entire thread I am of the opinion that blowby was the source of my original oil leak. I will need to get some shots of the set up that Boxter put in but I am definitely going to have to look into some of the solutions listed in this thread. Will post some pictures tomorrow for some educated input.
Posted by: johnnie5 Oct 18 2009, 12:16 PM
I mounted my breather on the rear wall of my engine compartment. I stood it off a bit with a couple of nuts for clearance purposes, so the engine lid would close with the rain tray still in place.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: bandjoey Oct 18 2009, 12:31 PM
Anyone with pictures of drilled out valve covers showing how and where you mounted the pipe for the hose?
Posted by: stephenaki Oct 18 2009, 01:05 PM
I mounted my breather on the rear wall of my engine compartment. I stood it off a bit with a couple of nuts for clearance purposes, so the engine lid would close with the rain tray still in place.
Nice, I like it, where'd you get the breather?
Posted by: johnnie5 Oct 18 2009, 02:36 PM
Nice, I like it, where'd you get the breather?
CB Performance...
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=238
Posted by: Gint Oct 18 2009, 08:18 PM
Pretty sure all of the heads have the boss at the factory location. Just drill it there at an angle just like factory. That's what I did anyway. Working fine.
Posted by: jschaible Nov 14 2009, 09:41 PM
Why is it important to have 2 vents to the rocker covers? As long as the the breather box is mounted high enough so that the oil will drain back, why not just have one pipe to the main oil fill? Vent vapors up to the box while running, and return the condensed oil later!
Posted by: Jeff Hail Nov 15 2009, 02:49 AM
Why would you want to move it to the back wall?
By head vents, are you talking about vented valve covers?
Its less obtrusive when located at the back.
On some engines, there are 1/2" dia. vent tubes on the heads, next to the intake ports.
The stock location is the best place to add them if your engine doesn't already have them, but it is a bit of work, especially when done with the engine installed.
Sometimes vents are added to the valve covers but they are below the tin so hose routing is a challenge.
Doesn't Chris make it simple to come to an easy and reasonable solution?
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Nov 15 2009, 08:31 AM
Why is it important to have 2 vents to the rocker covers? As long as the the breather box is mounted high enough so that the oil will drain back, why not just have one pipe to the main oil fill? Vent vapors up to the box while running, and return the condensed oil later!
What happens is the rocker area of the heads gets pressurized, sometimes enough to unseat the cover just enough to give you a leak. That area is a bitch enough to keep sealed anyway. On a standard oil pump, it may not be as much of a problem, but the factory started venting these heads for a reason.... For a HD pump, you need to do this if it was not done factory.
Chris's solution is way pretty, but the EMPI box is way cheaper.
Zach
Posted by: ottox914 Nov 15 2009, 08:54 AM
The CFR system is on the turbo 914, and quite simply, it is the best tool for the job. I considered the CB system, and made my own system with a bike bottle and some 3M pads inside, it kinda worked, but once I got the CFR breather, problem solved. Yes, its more than $50 bucks, and if thats all you have/want to spend, there are probably cheaper solutions, but there is not a better solution.
http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/showthread.php?t=2819&page=4
Linky to some install photos.
Posted by: SLITS Nov 15 2009, 09:05 AM
Heads were not vented on '75-'76 engines for tighter emissions control.
You ought to spend some time in the library reading and you may find the reason crankcases / heads are vented, but since you haven't ....
1.) The spinning crankshaft assembly creates a hell of a storm inside the engine and whips up oil, entrains air with a wet sump system. For years, crank scrapers and windage screens have been used to quell the storm.
2.) Rings do not seal perfectly. There is always some blowby present pressurizing the case.
3.) Adding the Empi or whatever type breather or just a can has no provision to drain the oil back to the case where it belongs.
4.) The system that Chris makes appears to be somewhat modeled after a dry sump tank .... inlet at top, probably with baffles and a screen to break the air entrained in the oil out so that it drops to the bottom of the tank and dribbles back into the case.
5.) You can drill your heads in the car ... use heavy grease on the drill and tap and it will capture the shards. You can use a threaded hose barb in this manner.
5.5.) Vacuum to pull the oil vapors / droplets into the engine to be burned can be obtained by tapping the top or bottom of the carb air cleaner and routing the vent hoses to the air cleaners.
6.) If you decide to vent the valve covers, the vent mu be in the upper portion of the cover as the rocker box can run about 1/2 full of oil. You braze the fittings onto the cover unless you can find a bulkhead fitting that will work.
Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 15 2009, 10:02 AM
5.5.) Vacuum to pull the oil vapors / droplets into the engine to be burned can be obtained by tapping the top or bottom of the carb air cleaner and routing the vent hoses to the air cleaners.
Even better would be to vent to a breather can that separates the oil droplets first, then has the remaining vapors sucked through the carbs. This would be strictly legal, as Cap'n Krusty likes to remind us of.
The Tangerine Breather is available with a fitting on top instead of the K&N filter so this can be implemented.
Posted by: jschaible Nov 15 2009, 10:17 AM
The CFR system is on the turbo 914, and quite simply, it is the best tool for the job. I considered the CB system, and made my own system with a bike bottle and some 3M pads inside, it kinda worked, but once I got the CFR breather, problem solved. Yes, its more than $50 bucks, and if thats all you have/want to spend, there are probably cheaper solutions, but there is not a better solution.
http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/showthread.php?t=2819&page=4
Linky to some install photos.
ottox914 - how can I access your CFR system post on thre air cooled site? I registered, but the system says I don't have permission to view even though I am signed in!
Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 15 2009, 10:21 AM
ottox914 - how can I access your CFR system post on thre air cooled site? I registered, but the system says I don't have permission to view even though I am signed in!
Jake runs a tight ship over there. You will have to wait for him to set up permissions for your account.
Posted by: mbjarts Nov 22 2009, 09:01 PM
I have the VW "bugpack" and it blows oil all over my engine. The problem is that all three inlets (both heads and the hose from the oil filler) seem to be blowin oil into the little box and it sprays all over the bay. It doesnt seem to realease the air and/or pressure. Is it possible that I have too much oil pressure?
Posted by: r_towle Nov 22 2009, 09:26 PM
I have the VW "bugpack" and it blows oil all over my engine. The problem is that all three inlets (both heads and the hose from the oil filler) seem to be blowin oil into the little box and it sprays all over the bay. It doesnt seem to realease the air and/or pressure. Is it possible that I have too much oil pressure?
Possible.
Please post a pic of the setup, maybe its not hooked up right.
Did you drill out the PCV valve so it allows the oil to drain into the oil filler?
Rich
Posted by: mbjarts Nov 23 2009, 12:42 PM
[/quote]
Possible.
Please post a pic of the setup, maybe its not hooked up right.
Did you drill out the PCV valve so it allows the oil to drain into the oil filler?
Rich
[/quote]
I actually put a "new" pvc valve in - I'll drill out and try. Thanks
Posted by: Kargeek Nov 23 2009, 06:54 PM
Cut down fan motor bracket and a VW aftermarket breather...I milled off the top ribs...
Posted by: r_towle Nov 23 2009, 06:58 PM
[quote name='mbjarts' date='Nov 23 2009, 01:42 PM' post='1241933']
[/quote]
Possible.
Please post a pic of the setup, maybe its not hooked up right.
Did you drill out the PCV valve so it allows the oil to drain into the oil filler?
Rich
[/quote]
I actually put a "new" pvc valve in - I'll drill out and try. Thanks
[/quote]
This could be your problem.
The PCV valve is a one way valve to let pressure out.
Its not designed to let anything in.
With the aftermarket oil breather, you need to be able to drain the oil back...so either you drill a new hole in the oil filler box and add a fitting, or you drill out the PCV valve so it is just a hole that allows both the gases to escape and the oil to drain back in.
You may have no place for the oil to drain right now...that is why its blowing all over the enginebay.
Rich
Posted by: r_towle Nov 27 2009, 09:28 AM
So,
I am about to put the CB Performance one in.
Anyone have more pics of where to mount it?
One IC on the back firewall...
One IC on the Fan..that is trick
On IC on the front firewall, but I cant see how its mounted.
I dont what to take off the backpad for this...to much work
Rich
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