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Posted by: ninefourteener Mar 17 2004, 09:21 AM

Ok..... forgive me for buying / owning a teener that pretty much underwent a ground up restoration less than 10K before I bought it......... so I really haven't done anything "mechanical" to it at all..... only appearance upgrades.

But I'd like it to handle better.. you know, hold the curves tighter, less body roll, etc.

Anyone have any ideas on what to do that isn't going to break the bank? Maybe some tips? Tricks? Cheap parts? Where can I get them? Where do I start? Whats the easiest upgrade, and will produce the highest desired effect??

Look at it from the perspective of a car that the suspension is 100% original.... as mine is. I know there are a lot of auto Xers on here, so any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated

Posted by: majkos Mar 17 2004, 09:40 AM

Ha-ha-ha! Cheap! Good one!
Wait I'll have another!
Just teasing! I've have good luck on e-bay,just beware WHAT you read.Anyhow I've scored on set's of Torsion bars 22mm,22mm front sways(Biggest improvement I may say,and on stock sways!)Running on 180 lbs rear spring,(personal prefrence) a lot of folks are on 140's,and hopefully your shocks are in pretty shape,you wouldn't need to shell out too much.BUT! Beware once you start playing with suspension,you run out of challeging roads nearby,and havin' a darn hard time staying at the speed limit! I know! Testing out my front suspenion,(On the way to the track)Duh!I wasn't paying attenion to the speedo,Got clocked 20 MPH way over the posted sign,Ouch in the wallet!

Posted by: thesey914 Mar 17 2004, 09:40 AM

Has it got sway bars? what shocks does it have? Not sure there is anything "cheap" other than replacing all the bushes which should tighten it up and an alignment.
High performance=high cost is applicable to suspension too

Posted by: Steve Mar 17 2004, 09:44 AM

If you want a good handling street car I would start with springs, torsion bars and sway bars.
Front
21mm torsion bars
22mm sway bar (weltmeister) or?
rear
140lb springs (Weltmeister) or?
stock rear sway bar??
Rear sway bar is usually only desirable with a six or with a stock front sway bar.
Some people only recommend a rear sway bar for the track if your running a limited slip diferential with a six.

Anything stiffer will make for a rough ride on the street.
Check ebay or classifieds for better deals on used parts.

regards,

Steve

Future Shocks
KYB cheapest
Koni or Bilstein more expensive

Posted by: agentblr Mar 17 2004, 09:46 AM

Try adding some turbo tie rods$130,about 1/2 degree of negative camber up front,Koni inserts are the best but thats probably breaking the bank!You already have one of the best handling cars ever made,so minor suspension geometry tweaks go a long way

Posted by: ninefourteener Mar 17 2004, 09:47 AM

Hmmm... maybe I should have elaborated a bit.... thanks for the responses though!!

The suspension is 100% stock. In addition, everything (bushings, springs, shocks) are less than 10K old.

When I say "cheap"....... I mean "reasonable"

Say 3 or 4 hundred bucks....... where would you start with a stock suspension that "needs" nothing, but you'd like to stiffen it up a bit..... then... where do I get it?

Posted by: jonwatts Mar 17 2004, 09:48 AM

Find out (or tell us if you already know) what you have. You said suspension is 100% original. Do you mean original as in it's 30 years old or original in that all original spec parts were used during the restoration?

What year is the car?

Do you have swaybars? If not then even a stock front bar would be a great improvement but the installation is a bit involved; i.e. it's not a simple bolt-on part, drilling is required.

A rear swaybar is not as critical as the front. New coil springs will be your biggest bang-for-the-buck on the rear suspension.

Then there's new shock absorbers, upgraded suspensions bushings, front torsion bars, etc. I prefer to do things one piece at a time so you can feel how they affect handling and you learn more about your car. (worthless side note: the biggest and cheapest upgrade I made on my Corrado was a $70 front strut tower brace. I had no idea the strut towers would flex as much as they did with an engine and transmission bolted between them but this cheap and simple part made a huge initial improvement in how the car handled).

Notice I said I prefer to do things one at a time even tho I'm doing it all at once on my 914. The suspension was scary 30 year old stuff when I bought the thing so I didn't need have a good basis to work from but now I have no basis to know which upgrade did what to the handling characteristics (so I'm behind the learning curve).

As for costs, budget what's cheapest and then buy whatever you want. It's called living in denial and has worked well for me so far

Posted by: agentblr Mar 17 2004, 09:57 AM

For a couple hundred I would first uprate the dampers (sorry shocks),bigger bars and springs are fine and danddy but the will hamper ride quality obviously!It depends on how tender your ass is.Remeber that 14s wre delivered with 17.9mmbars and 60 lbs rear springs,yeah thats right

Posted by: ninefourteener Mar 17 2004, 09:59 AM

No.. the suspension was restored to original specs.

It's a 72... the only real modification (Other than appearance upgrades that I've done) was the new 2.0.

Swaybars?? Now I feel stupid.. because quite honestly.. I've never had to get under the car to look.

The "drilling" thing sounds a bit undesireable.... the car is running perfectly, and ready for summer. I'm really not looking to "break" the car temporarily if I don't absolutely need to.

Whats this strut tower brace? Do you have pics? You said for $70, it was the best upgrade you'd done? I'm interested......

You guys ROCK... God I love this site

Posted by: ! Mar 17 2004, 10:05 AM

Add a front sway bar....it requires tank removal...good time to replace those crappy 30 year old fuel lines that nobody ever sees.

RonK has a post on the skyrat board for some 930 18mm sway bars...he's my neighbor. 15mm was stock on a 914.

If I remember....both the stock 914 and early 930 sway bars are non adjustable....under/over steer was dialed in with rear spring variation....or with higher boost in the 930 case....

After that, a good alignment and corner balance....

Posted by: jonwatts Mar 17 2004, 10:06 AM

A '72 wouldn't (or shouldn't) have swaybars from the factory. It doesn't mean someone hasn't added one already.

Forget what I said about the strut tower brace, it doesn't apply to our cars. I was just making a point about a cheap upgrade on another car. Sorry for the confusion.

Posted by: jonwatts Mar 17 2004, 10:15 AM

Oh, and I agree with Mikez (hi Mike!). Don't let the swaybar install stop you from adding one, it's completely worth it and you can do some fuel system maintenance while you're in there.

You not wanting to take your car off the road is entirely understandable but at some point a swaybar will be required for better handling. In the meantime springs and torsion bars are an easy install and will help you lower it and stiffen it up a bit, but there's only so much you can do with springs alone.

Posted by: majkos Mar 17 2004, 10:21 AM

The stock front sway is fairly easy install.The hardest part is the actual drilling,armed with info.(Got mine from Pelican Parts)I did it in one day.Best time to clean the tank!Super easy! Oh yeah,One good advise,When ready to do the install,run the tank to near empty,less fuel to deal with when draining.

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 17 2004, 10:24 AM

Cheapest add on would be a sway bar for the front, get the 21mm as you can set it loose to start. This will eliminate the front roll during turns.
Next is better than stock springs, atleast 140 if not 180lb springs.

Tires next, if you are running 165's change them fast to somthing else. Dropping down to a 205x50 or 205x55 will amaze you even if they are cheap tires. If you go to Dunlop SP9000's or similar the road will feel so sticky and more fun.


Geoff

Posted by: mskala Mar 17 2004, 10:24 AM

This part is not clear to me. You realize that the only way that
NEW rubber bushings are in your suspension pieces are if the
restoration included NEW factory A-arms and trailing arms. I
know those are available but don't know how many people
do it. It is cheaper and better for the DIY'er to just get plastic
bushings and install them.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 17 2004, 10:33 AM

Screw all that! Y'all are forgetting the number one thing you can do to make your 914 handle better!

What's that, you say? Simple. Driver improvement. Track down the local people who autocross, and join them! You'll learn that your car is capable of things you never ever ever thought it could do--if you know how to help it.

Second step in handling improvements: Tires. A set of aggressive street tires in a good wide/short size will help handling very significantly. It might be a good idea to skip the short sidewall part of that, if you care about ride quality and keeping the gearing and speedo/odo readings the same, but going to short sidewalls on a street tires really affects the handling significantly! As does going wider, and going to an aggressive tread compound. Maybe even Yoko A023R tires, which are not street tires but can be lived with for a while. (They'll wear out quickly, puncture relatively easily, they're noisy as hell, and they're allergic to standing water, but boy do they grip!!!)

After that, I think an alignment. Not as much $$ as tires, but less effect. Do not get a racing alignment, though. Let me repeat that: DO NOT GET A RACING ALIGNMENT! Get something intended for moderately-aggressive street driving. A full race-car alignment will make the car very difficult to control when simply driving around; you will have to focus on driving the car every second it is moving or it will get away from you. It will also not grip as well as a less-aggressive alignment when you are not pushing the car hard. Something with about a degree of negative camber in the back, a half-degree in front (or up to a degree, possibly), max caster angle, and a bit of toe-in on all four wheels should be pretty nice, and won't hurt tire life too badly.

Next up on the list, for me, would be the front sway bar. An adjustable one is nice because it lets you tweak the balance of the car (oversteer/understeer), but even the small non-adjustable stock front bar will give you a very noticeable improvement! (Helps keep you from scraping the chrome off your door handles, too! ) I'd go stock or a smaller adjustable (e.g., 19mm) bar if you are keeping the stock rear springs or something close, like 100 lbs/in.

Springs would be next after the front sway.

Note that if you know you have the budget to get as far as the front sway bar, or both that and the springs, do them before you do the alignment. Installing them can affect the alignment (particularly if the springs make the back of the car lower than before) so you will at least want to have it checked afterwards.

Anyway, the above is my list, in the order I would do them with an increasing budget.

--DD

Posted by: majkos Mar 17 2004, 10:41 AM

Well Duh!!!!!!
Dave,You're the one who helped out Big time when I've done my Front sway installation,many many moons ago! I'm forever in your debt!

Posted by: ninefourteener Mar 17 2004, 10:41 AM

Wow.. I think I learned more in the past 30 minutes than I have in thew past 3 months.

I'm going to go with a new set of springs first.... that seems to be what everyone is suggesting. Perhaps down the road (after the summer) I'll start digging into a new sway bar.

My ass is pretty tough.... but I do drive the car A LOT in the summer, are the 180s gonna kill me on the road? Would 140's be better for a 100% street car?

I drove a fully auto X'ed teener once, and if I didn't have the harness on, that thing would have damn near bumped clean out the top of the car after every little bump in the road. Not sure what springs it had on it, but I definately don't want that.

As for my tires.... I'm already running a 205, so I can't go too much bigger than that.

"fun" factor must exceed the "performance" factor... so 140's or 180's???

Suggestions on who to buy them from?

Posted by: ninefourteener Mar 17 2004, 10:45 AM

This is all I found on the bay after a quick search..... not exactly what I'm looking for.. plus it doesn't say what level they are:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2467510483&category=33582

Posted by: agentblr Mar 17 2004, 10:55 AM

You guys are nuts! 140s 180 springs for a street driven 914-4. In run 100lbs on my 914-6 and that will loosen fillings,of course the roads in Kansas City suck

Posted by: seanery Mar 17 2004, 11:03 AM

I'd say forget the 140s or 180s for a street car, total overkill.
Get the Koni yellows with adjustable perches and 125 lb springs. I got mine from Paragon. This should be IMHO, the first thing you should do for ride.
195s or 205s next then sway(s).


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 17 2004, 11:08 AM

Nope, I run 180's and 22mm hollow front bars. Doesn't shake my fillings out on these crappy Seattle roads. Car handles like a gokart on steroids.

I would go with 140's so the car doesn't get too out of balance if you don't have a front bar.


Geoff

he just go new shocks.

Posted by: seanery Mar 17 2004, 11:10 AM

western roads are smoother than midwestern roads, trust me. We get horrible freeze/thaw/freeze/thaw here.
I'd consider 140s or 185s if I still lived in SmelLA, but here, no friggen way!

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 17 2004, 11:18 AM

We don't have salt in the winter but we do have the studded tires which chew up the roads bigtime! The freeways are terrible and the surface streets are all filled with potholes due to the rains..

Visting Phoenix was nice as the roads are great there, only place better is Europe!


Geoff

Posted by: r_towle Mar 17 2004, 11:21 AM

I would have to agree.
New shocks and new springs for the rear.
New shocks and new torsion bars for the front.
Tune that with an alignment first, drive it and see if you need a sway bar...depends on your driving habits.

go with 140 lbs srpings in the rear, if you get the koni shocks, you will get a nice ride.
I think this is the combo that Brad puts in most of the street cars he works on...

Rich

Posted by: blabla914 Mar 17 2004, 11:27 AM

I disagree with 140's or 180's on a street car you will drive any kind of distance. I have 125's from paragon and a 22mm front bar. The car is very stiff for driving in and around New York city. The longest I've been in it is 4 hours non stop on a 6 hour trip. It was pretty tough and all my friends think I'm nuts.
I also have 7 autocross FTD's with CART and have won my class at PCA zone 1 twice and placed top 10 or 15 overall Zone 1. You can look me up, Kelly Evans, white 914, MOD1. Yes, it is a compromise, but you don't HAVE to have ultra stiff springs to be quick. I'll probaby get tons of people telling me I don't know diddly, but my results speak for themselves.
My order would be bushings, alignment, tires, shocks, bars/springs together, corner balance.

Kelly

Posted by: SpecialK Mar 17 2004, 11:50 AM

I've driven on just about every highway from San Diego to Tampa, and as far north as I-80 going from Denver to Chicago, and the ABSOLUTE best stretch of highway I've ever had the pleasure of driving on is the section of I-75 that runs through Atlanta, GA. At the time (1998) it was absolutely seamless from state line, to state line!

Hey Ninefourteener, do you live up around St. Charles or St. Peters? Kinda looks like the neighborhoods up that way (checking out the background in the pic of your '72).

As for suspension, I've got 140 lb. springs in the rear (keep in mind, 140's and 180's will lower the rear of your car about 1", so you'll need to lower the front to match and add some spacers to the steering rack assy.), 21mm torsion bars up front, turbo tie-rods, stock swaybars front and rear, all new polycarbonite bushings and a pair of Beemer brakes on the front.

I can't give you an opinion of how well it handles, as all of the above mentioned parts are still in the boxes that they were shipped to me in , and it won't be going anywhere under its own power anytime soon , but I imagine compared to the "Bucket-O-Rust" '75, it'll handle like it's on rails!!

P.S. - Love that color of green!!

Posted by: SpecialK Mar 17 2004, 11:54 AM

Oh yeah, I'm running 8" with 225/50's in the rear, and 7" with 205/50's up front (911SC flares on the rear for clearance [hey, it was that way when I bought it])

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 17 2004, 12:02 PM

180lb/in springs on the back, with everything else stock? Can you say, "oversteer"? That would be a serious handful, the back end would want to trade places with the front just about any time the steering wheel moved!!

I suggest going no more than 100 lb/in springs in the back if you keep the rest of the car stock. Remember, the suspension thing is a balancing act--you want to have similar traction at the front and rear ends of the car. Too stiff on one end leads to that end breaking traction first, and having the rear break traction first is not going to make you happy on the street!!

As I implied earlier, I think that the rear springs would be somewhere after upgrading the front sway bar--and very definitely be lower-priority than putting decent tires on the car!

--DD

Posted by: majkos Mar 17 2004, 12:02 PM

Lucky you! Having such wide wheels already.

Posted by: ninefourteener Mar 17 2004, 01:40 PM

Hey Special K...

Man..... any chance I could get you to just say "screw 914s" and just give me all that crap you have?? You know, kinda like a charity thing?? LOL

J/K

And no, I don't live in St. Chuck or St Peters area... although my g/f lives there, and I'm there all the time. I live in Base housing (Scott AFB, IL). I'm active duty AF---10 years

I think I'm gonna go a little risky with 140 lb springs, on all 4 corners..... that seems to be the general consensus.. plus, I'm tough... I think I can handle it. The 914 was never all that comfortable of a car anyway.

I was looking in the new TWEEKS I just got in the mail today..... which BTW.... is no longer TWEEKS..... now it's "Mid-America".... not sure whats up with that.

Thanks for the color props... I LOVE the color too.. just wish it came with a black interior rather than a brown one, you know? The brown really clashes with my whole green/black theme. I wonder if I could swap interiors with someone--LOL

So long as I'm clashing..... shit.. might as well re-apholster the seats in plaid

Posted by: airsix Mar 17 2004, 01:42 PM

Wow. I'm sorry, but I have to say that there has been some really terrible advice given in this thread. There's been some good advice too, but how's the inexperienced reader to know which is which? I don't want to hurt feelings, but I'm worried that "nineforteener" is going to go out and blow a wad of cash on upgrades that are not going to give the intended result. And that is what would happen if some of these suggestions were followed.

Nineforteener, I'm not going to point fingers and say who I think knows what they are talking about and who I think is up to their eyes in BS, but I do highly recommend that you speak directly to one or more individuals who are known to be qualified in the area of "914 setup". Get their blessing before proceeding. I suggest you talk to our fearless leader, Brad. He's probably "set up" more 914's for various levels of street/track driving than anyone else here. He'll give you the right advice or point you to someone who will. Another qualified person you might speak with is Rich at High Performance House. He's an experienced 914 racer and as a bonus he sells the parts you need. There are others - call Brad. He'll tell you who they are. So anyway, my point is you need to get some qualifed advice because this thread is such a mix of wheat and chaff that it's about worthless. I hope that doesn't offend people but I'm calling it as I see it.

-Ben M.

Posted by: ninefourteener Mar 17 2004, 01:46 PM

OUCH!!

Ok.... I'm here with my thumb up my butt now

Brad.... maybe a quifck suggestion??

Long story short..... most effective handling upgrade for a 100% stock car for around 3 to 4 hundred bucks?????

Posted by: brant Mar 17 2004, 02:00 PM

Also...

If you change the springs.. (front or rear)... you should really do the alignment at the same time...
PLEASE PUT THAT INTO YOUR BUDGET>.....

just my $.02:
I'd leave the springs alone, add a sway bar, and align only if it needed it anyways... then drive it and enjoy for the summer....

b

Posted by: anthony Mar 17 2004, 02:05 PM

To stay under budget I'd say 100lb rear springs plus a stock 2L sway bars if you can find them. That would give you 73/74 2L handling for relatively little money. (Possibly you can forget the rear sway bar. Many debate it's effectiveness.)

The next level IMO would be 140lb. rear springs plus a 19mm front sway bar. I think this a combo that Dave has recommended many times (correct me if I'm wrong Dave). If you go with a budget sway bar like the Weltmeister you would come in a little over the upper end of your $400 budget.

Just remember that you need a balanced setup so if you do something to the front you probably need to do something to the rear as well or vice versa. You probably don't want massive front sway bars, big torsion bars, or 180lb rear springs.

Posted by: nebreitling Mar 17 2004, 02:48 PM

DUDE,

for $600+/-, add a stock front sway bar yourself, mount 205/50's and get a good alignment at a shop that knows what it's doing. then drive the snot out of the thing. that's it.

go for the turbo tie-rods when your current ones need replacing, upgrade as you go.

there are some bad-ass upgrades out there if you are looking to stimulate the economy and drive competitively. which, from the title of your topic, it appears that you are not.

Posted by: garyh Mar 17 2004, 03:17 PM

Me thinks you read the advice wrong.

#1 improvement to the cornering ability is driver's ed.

Biggest improvement to the car is a front sway bar.

Some '72's were "pre-drilled", so all you have to do is bolt it in.

I'm pretty sure the consensus is:
Leave the car -stock- (with the OE sway bar, etc.) until you complete item #1.

Posted by: eresener Mar 17 2004, 03:21 PM

Hey ninefourteener,
my 73 is as green as yours...maybe we should start an Irish Green only Thread today....just to see how many of us are truly wearin the green...
ED

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 17 2004, 03:37 PM

It's gonna cost you a whole lot of money to do that. Because the 914 has torsion bars, not springs, up front.




That happened about three years ago or more. Tweeks pretty much went under, but then Mid-America Direct (long-term Corvette people) bought them out and revived them. I think they got moved from Indy to Effingham IL, where M-A is.




Let's see, $100 should get you into five autocrosses. That'll take you anywhere from one to six months. That leaves $300 for the second biggest improvement. TIRES. Ignore the rest of the proposed mods. Heck, I suggest not even bothering with tires for a while yet. Just get out there and drive the car!!

--DD

Posted by: fiid Mar 17 2004, 07:27 PM

I would work out what your final destination is first, if you can. Then figure out the best order to buy stuff.

I ran a big front sway bars with stock springs and almost got kicked out of an autocross for lifting my left inside rear tire about a foot off the ground. I would probably do all the springs first - they are cheapest I think - then a sway bar, then konis, and then needle bearing bushings, and then turbo tie rods. When you have all this stuff done you will find it very easy to get speeding tickets. My car feels like it's stopped at 60.

I have 23mm front torsion bars, 180lb rears, needle bearings and koni yellows all around, and a 22mm weltmeister sway bar up front. I don't find the car to stiff really - I think it's only a little rougher than my gf's miata to be honest, and it handles really nicely.

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 17 2004, 08:26 PM

Tires

Posted by: majkos Mar 17 2004, 08:37 PM

I with tires!then second "stock" sway,they're cheap! Then alieghment!:beer3:
Never mind me it's St patty day!I love "U" all!
O'Shea,of the clan of O'Shea! (I always wanted to do that!)Sorry!

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 17 2004, 11:38 PM

I think we should ask him a few questions:

1. What do you feel the car doing right now ?

a. does the car push in corners (goes straight even though you have the wheel turned) (this will tell us how he drives)
b. does the ass end like to swing out when you are on the gas.

To answer your 300-400$ question I need to know what you want to correct.

Tires are a good start (depending on what it has now)


B

Posted by: jonwatts Mar 17 2004, 11:56 PM

I feel this thread has definite "flame war" potential I'll try not to be the first person to hurl a grenade at anyone even tho Ben pretty much called me an idiot flat out.

PS - Don't listen to me, I'm just regurgitating what advice I've received. I haven't driven my car in 2+ years and even then it wouldn't pass a state vehicle inspection in Arkansas (no offense to Arkansites).

Posted by: airsix Mar 18 2004, 02:12 AM

Hey! I didn't say anything about your comments! Are you kidding? You took the correct aproach - asking more questions like:



These are all questions that needed answering before a valid recomendation could be made. I thought you were doing good.

-Ben M.

ps - I know you are joking around.

Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 18 2004, 06:59 AM

the 4 koni's and the spring swap with adjustable perches is going to run 8+ bills. the rear setup with 100 lb springs and perches alone were over 5 with shipping (the group buy). when the dust settles you will need over $1200, depending what you pay locally for a 4 wheel alignment and corner balance. that's not including tires either!

kevin

Posted by: ninefourteener Mar 18 2004, 09:48 AM

1. The car rides great.... no oversteer, but a bit of understeer in hard corners. Plus, I feel the car "lean" more than I'd like it to around curves as well.

a. a little bit
b. no, the ass is planted well, the only time I feel it swing out is if I have to BRAKE in the middle of a curve.. under acceleration, its the front I'd like to improve, not the rear

2. My car DOES NOT have a swaybar.. I looked last night.

Tires are ok I think. I'm running a 205/60 on all 4 corners. The tires grip just fine.... so squealing or sliding around hard corners.... it's the way the car itself responds to turns, that I'd like to improve.

To give a specific example..... there's an on ramp to the highway that I drive almost daily.... it's nearly a 360 degree perfect circle. I go into it a maybe 45 mph, constantly accelerate, and come out at about 70 mph. The car handles it fine (no tire sqealing), but it feels like it WAY leans around the curve.

Plus.... if I have to let off the gas, or if I have to brake... THEN the car gets all squirrely. I guess I just want better stability. Does that make sense?? Forgive me, I'm trying to explain it the best I can.

Matt

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 18 2004, 11:17 AM

Good job. You explained how you drive the car and how you would like it to be improved.

My questions to walk up customers are always "loaded questions." I "prod" them to answer me.

First things first. Lets get the front end down. This will help "plant" the nose in corners. It is WAY to high right now.

Let me know when you get this. Start looking for a local alignment shop or start another thread asking anyone in your area for a known good shop. I can give you alignment specs for your 205/60's. We setup cars with 205/60's quite frequently.


B

Posted by: jonwatts Mar 18 2004, 11:35 AM

Was there a link to pictures of ninefourteener's car somewhere in this thread? I must have missed it.

Well it looks like a flame war was avoided after all. Here I thought people were gonna get all but instead we're just happy folks.

Posted by: ninefourteener Mar 18 2004, 11:55 AM

Here's a pic of my car as it sits right now. One of the reasons I used such a dramatic front spoiler was to plant the front end down (and I thought it was cool looking)... but if I drop the front end more, I'm gonna have to drop the back end as well.... as the back end already sits a tad bit higher than the front anyway.

If I drop the back, do you think I'll run into tire clearance problems?

I'm worried about drop[ping the front too much, as I'll turn my teener into a snow plow


Attached image(s)

Posted by: ninefourteener Mar 18 2004, 12:20 PM

You know.... Brad Mayeur doesn't live too terribly far from me...... you think he'd be a good guy to call to help set up (drop) the car??

I spoke with him once over the phone quite some time ago.. he seemed friendly enough, and I know he has a good reputation.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 18 2004, 12:27 PM

You may turn your 914 into a snow plow if you lower the front end. But aero doesn't do much for a 914 at any kind of sane speeds for the real world, so a huge spoiler like that is a waste IMHO. Lowering the nose will definitely give you more front grip, and it should reduce body roll slightly.

Lowering the rear shouldn't cause tire fitment problems that weren't there to begin with. Probably.

Braking in the middle of a corner is always going to cause the rear end to try to step out. Always. Even in a POS front-driver, if you brake hard enough. Letting off the gas in the middle of a corner will cause the rear end to get light at the very least--at least it's not a 911, where letting off in a corner spins the car... But those issues are more driver-related IMHO than car-related.

If you are looking for less body roll specifically, then better tires aren't what you need. They will actually increase body roll by giving you more grip. (What you said first was "better handling", which to me means "better grip".)

Lowering the car's ride height will reduce body roll. So will stiffening up the suspension--adding a front sway bar if there isn't one already (or going up in size if there is one), putting stiffer torsion bars in, putting stiffer rear springs in.

So you've got just a few choices here, from what you have said. Since you don't want do drill the holes required, sway bars are out. So you can lower the front of the car somewhat, and go with the 100 lb/in rear springs which will also lower the rear of the car slightly. Get an "aggressive street" alignment afterward, and that's it.

I still recommend that you take the car out and autoX it. Tightening the loose nut behind the wheel is always the number one improvement you can make. It won't help with body roll, but it will help you to get the most out of the car. And trust me, you haven't even gotten near the most yet...


...Brad M is a great guy, very very very knowledgeable. You'll pay more than if you did the work yourself, but you won't have to make all the standard mistakes and fix them... You could do a whole lot worse than to take the car to him.

--DD