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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ How much different is the handling?
Posted by: turnaround89 Nov 17 2009, 01:16 AM
i have been searching all night, and can't seem to come up with how much different the car will handle with the added weight etc etc...Thinking of doing a v8 conversion but if the handling of the car diminishes greatly, i won't really want to do it. Anyone want to share some info?
I know how well my 914-4 handles, but what will change with the v8?
Posted by: DBCooper Nov 17 2009, 07:17 AM
That's an almost impossible question to answer. I have a friend who's done two SBC-914's, one nice street car, one more race/street with flares, racing slicks, etc. Since you're adding a lot of horsepower and torque you can't leave the tires, suspension and brakes stock, no matter what else you do. And once you've made significant changes to the suspension and brakes you have what is really a different car, making it almost impossible to compare. He says the V8 is like having a passenger along all the time, if that tells you anything, plus an additional 200 horsepower.
I CAN tell you that I didn't make any suspension changes with a Subaru WRX motor, though I did do a brake upgrade. No real difference in the handling, maybe the equivalent of keeping the spare tire in the trunk or taking it out. Not enough to comment. But even so I do drive the car very differently with all the extra horsepower, less momentum, more throttle and brakes. And I"m sure that's the case for anyone with a six or an eight. That also makes it very difficult to compare them to an original four cylinder car.
Posted by: rick 918-S Nov 17 2009, 08:27 AM
The V8 will add weight to the car. And in the wrong place. It puts the roll center higher in the car. Yes it changes the handling alot. Once you add weight high in the car, add power and torque every part of the car changes. You need to add more tire for the added torque of the engine. Then the transaxle will become an issue with gearing. The 901 is not geared properly for a V8. And if you add enough torque it becomes a weak link. When you increase your tires contact patch and the tire and wheels weight of inertia, your brakes have more resistance. This means brake up grades. Lots of changes. 
Posted by: Gint Nov 17 2009, 08:54 AM
regarding the additional weight and CG of the V8 and most of the other points already made.
And I found that there is a difference in handling just between a stock 4 and 6 cylinder 914. Enough that I prefer driving a 4 cylinder 914 over the 6. They feel lighter and more nimble. More... tossable if you will. A V8 would add even more weight and in the wrong place.
You might feel differently about it though. Opinions are like... well, everyone has one. The best way to answer this question is to get out and drive a few examples of each and see for yourself. Round up the locals and have a driving comparison. Make an event out of it. BBQ, etc...
Posted by: underthetire Nov 17 2009, 11:02 AM
All the above reasons are why I want to do a rotary. Light, high revving to match the trans, and not a lot of torque.
Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 17 2009, 11:09 AM
When I was working for Renegade I drove a ton of both stock and V8 914s. The V8s are a total blast but you can definitely feel that big engine throwing its weight around.
I could have had a free V8 conversion kit but wanted a more nimble car so I went with the Subie. Now if you went with an LS1 that might be another story...
Posted by: Dr. Roger Nov 17 2009, 12:47 PM
LT1 Mass: 785.3 lbs (356.2 kg)
LS1 Total Dressed Engine Weight: Auto. - 457.6 lbs. (208 kg)
Relatively large difference considering the total weight of a 914.
Source: http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/lt4-forum/15290-lt-5-vs-lt1-lt4-weight.html
I think Gint said it. Once you stiffen your suspension, install bigger brakes, bigger rubber, and sways, the car just feels heavier... especially at the steering wheel. Which I never thought too much about until I drove a stock car.
Stock car = go cart. Properly setup V8 car = Monster in every sense of the word.
Stock car. A pleasure to drive.
V8 car. Will wear you out. Your nerves and your body.
Posted by: turnaround89 Nov 17 2009, 01:19 PM
Thanks for all the input everybody...Im really questioning doing the v8 conversion, i love the way the car is now, just want more power. It seems like building up a 4 cylinder motor to the same specs as a comparable subaru motor conversion is about the same in price. I would really like to have fuel injection, maybe ill look for a subaru motor instead of snatching up my buddy's 302. Thanks everyone, i really appreciate it!!!!! 
Posted by: underthetire Nov 17 2009, 01:31 PM
Don't think a Ford 302 will fit anyway. It's longer than the Cheby.
Posted by: Rand Nov 17 2009, 01:57 PM
Don't think a Ford 302 will fit anyway. It's longer than the Cheby.
More work, but it's been done.
Posted by: Madswede Nov 17 2009, 02:02 PM
Of course, you could always keep it all-Porsche and put a 3.6 /6 in there. Plus it annoys most 911 drivers when you do that.
- Nelson
Posted by: SirAndy Nov 17 2009, 02:19 PM
Of course, you could always keep it all-Porsche and put a 3.6 /6 in there. Plus it annoys most 911 drivers when you do that.
Posted by: Rico Suave Nov 17 2009, 02:29 PM
Like a truck.....
Posted by: dakotaewing Nov 17 2009, 03:06 PM
Don't think a Ford 302 will fit anyway. It's longer than the Cheby.
More work, but it's been done.
Ford was not the only company to make a 302...
Posted by: DBCooper Nov 17 2009, 05:06 PM
Of course, you could always keep it all-Porsche and put a 3.6 /6 in there. Plus it annoys most 911 drivers when you do that.
Andy, you drove that car with a four for a long time, didn't you? How did the handling change when you put in the six? The sixes are pretty heavy, aren't they? How does the weight compare to the four? The weight in my car hasn't changed much, if it all, but with all the extra horsepower I don't drive my car the same way. Did that happen to you too?
Posted by: iamchappy Nov 17 2009, 08:00 PM
The turbo six works well also and it's really not that hard to do, i did it and i dont know anything.
My car is so stiff, has big sticky tires and goes around corners so flat, I'm sure it handles way better than my four did but my four was never set up as good. If i put a four in where the turbo six sits now it may handle better thrown into the turn but could never be the same coming out of it.
The 300+hp subies now that probably is the best of both power and weight.
Posted by: TROJANMAN Nov 17 2009, 08:29 PM
I miss my 4
Posted by: Bruce Hinds Nov 18 2009, 08:58 AM
Sure... the 4 is more nimble, and tossable. I got blown away on the AX by a well set up 4(pro driver too) and I didn't do much if at all better than a stock 4.....
Then there's 3rd, 4th and 5th! If you're going to AX, zip around neighborhoods and drive fairly flat highways you'll enjoy the 4. If you like driving mountain roads and want to have as much fun going up as you do going down.... go for more power.
I spent big $$ years ago on a 4 that Simms did for me in Dallas. It was estimateda at about 150HP.... what a hoot. But absolutely no torque below 3000rpm. So, I was in it all the time, spun a bearing at about 25,000 miles. I also lost my license with that car for a time which got me to thinking about all I'd spent and then heard about a new outfit called Renegade. You don't have to spend much more to do a mild v8.
I'll agree it's a different car, but what a different car it is! I haven't looked back. Why should I? There's no one in my mirror.(except maybe smokey)
Posted by: Phoenix-MN Nov 18 2009, 10:09 AM
Any good engineers with a little time on their hands? 
It would be enlightening to calculate and see real numbers in the real change in CG of the car with a different engines. Just changing the ride heigth will affect the CG, handling, roll centers, geometry, etc.
Posted by: pcar916 Nov 18 2009, 10:40 AM
There was a difference between my car as a 2.7L and now as a 3.6L machine. Some was weight but the biggest difference was the balance / suspension changes, and the addition of an LSD.
- I added a fuel cell and it's low in the front trunk.
- The added front oil cooler (4 qt's in the cooler and 1 qt in the lines) and and associated plumbing. all down low.
- 993 motor is much heavier than the 2.7
- Rear springs went from 180 to 200
- Rear shocks are set stiffer
- LSD or TBD and gearing make a big difference
- I still use the 914 transmission but with slightly different gearing
My roll center is still about the same best I can tell. Almost everything I do to my car is geared towards making the car safer, lighter, lower (CG) and faster.
This way I still have my kart!
Good luck
Posted by: SirAndy Nov 18 2009, 11:37 AM
Andy, you drove that car with a four for a long time, didn't you? How did the handling change when you put in the six? The sixes are pretty heavy, aren't they? How does the weight compare to the four? The weight in my car hasn't changed much, if it all, but with all the extra horsepower I don't drive my car the same way. Did that happen to you too?
Yes on both accounts. The car does handle differently. It's hard to put it in words.
But i think the biggest difference is that with more HP, you drive the car differently. With the /4 i always had to keep up the momentum and try to brake as little as possible.
Now with the /6, you can go much deeper into a corner, then brake hard, then hit the loud pedal coming out of the corner.
I'm probably going to get killed for this, but when i took my car for that first run through the twisties with the /6 i thought to myself "That's how they all should have left the factory ..."
Andy
Posted by: drive-ability Nov 18 2009, 06:10 PM
I like the way my car handles and drives but I'm running a 930 limited slip transmission, a soft set of springs, Koni's on soft, power steering, A/C and a soft clutch and pressure plate, along with tons of insulation. I get crazy good traction off the line and smooth gripping in the turns. The quick Zero to sixty is great but the sixty to a hundred is better. Choose your own poison and live with it !!!
Posted by: computers4kids Nov 18 2009, 09:28 PM
I constantly hear about how much a v-8 adds to the weight of a 914, compared to a 4. Yes, It did add about 250 lbs to my car, which includes the AC install, 50 of that is up front and the other 200 in the engine compartment. That's not that much weight considering its placement, especially when the trade off was 300hp. My motor isn't the beast that some build, but it's a high reving 305 with vortec heads. The torque winds up quickly mid speed which makes for a nice driving car. I've left my car very stock, no flares or huge tires. Did beef up the suspension and brakes...no sway bars. 901 has a H gear for 5th which makes for nice highway cruising, and pretty much just use 2-4.
Handling Different? The car drives like most of the 914 cars I've owned...a little stiffer, and a ton more power at any given moment. Besides the thrill of the ride, what I notice the most is what happens when I drop it into 5th and start cruising at 70. The car is only turning about 2500 rpm and with the top off you can actually have a conversation in the car, listen to the stereo...way quieiter than any of my 4s with the squirrels running as fast as they can. The motor just purrs.!
I think alot of the v-8 conversions have gotten a bad rap over the years because many have been 1/2ass done and the 914 has been all hacked-up. There's a huge difference between a well sorted v8 914 and one that is not.
Lastly, I think I get some decent gas mileage for a carbed motor...around 24.
If I was to do it again...I wouldn't think twice. 
Posted by: type47fan Nov 19 2009, 05:42 PM
I constantly hear about how much a v-8 adds to the weight of a 914, compared to a 4. Yes, It did add about 250 lbs to my car, which includes the AC install, 50 of that is up front and the other 200 in the engine compartment. That's not that much weight considering its placement, especially when the trade off was 300hp. My motor isn't the beast that some build, but it's a high reving 305 with vortec heads. The torque winds up quickly mid speed which makes for a nice driving car. I've left my car very stock, no flares or huge tires. Did beef up the suspension and brakes...no sway bars. 901 has a H gear for 5th which makes for nice highway cruising, and pretty much just use 2-4.
Handling Different? The car drives like most of the 914 cars I've owned...a little stiffer, and a ton more power at any given moment. Besides the thrill of the ride, what I notice the most is what happens when I drop it into 5th and start cruising at 70. The car is only turning about 2500 rpm and with the top off you can actually have a conversation in the car, listen to the stereo...way quieiter than any of my 4s with the squirrels running as fast as they can. The motor just purrs.!
I think alot of the v-8 conversions have gotten a bad rap over the years because many have been 1/2ass done and the 914 has been all hacked-up. There's a huge difference between a well sorted v8 914 and one that is not.
Lastly, I think I get some decent gas mileage for a carbed motor...around 24.
If I was to do it again...I wouldn't think twice.
Sweet!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0z5TV72aFo
Posted by: craig3x Dec 21 2009, 08:20 PM
All the above reasons are why I want to do a rotary. Light, high revving to match the trans, and not a lot of torque.
Agree. You aren't going to make 300 HP, but you don't need to. You actually lose weight and get to rev the motor to 9k rpm. Fun times. Feels like driving a streetbike on 4 wheels
Posted by: kg6dxn Dec 21 2009, 10:02 PM
I've owened Both a Chevy and Ford V8 914. Both fuel injected. The Ford was a 5.0 from a Mustang.
Both 14's had beefed up suspension and brakes. The current one (Chevy) has 930 brakes and flairs. It STOPPS! quite well.
I have driven 4 cylinder 914's before. I WILL NEVER GO BACK TO A 4.
I love the V8 power. The 914 V8 still handles better than 90% of the cars on the road. It also draws attention, if you like that. I went on a cruise with my local PCA group. many people wanted to see what was in my POS and didn't care about all the new Porsches in the club. My PCA local has some very nice cars!
I may consider an aluminum V8 or Subie if I ever upgrade
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