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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ I tried soda blasting today
Posted by: Cevan Dec 26 2009, 04:11 PM
So I bought a few 2 lb boxes of Arm and Hammer baking soda at Walmart for about 5 bucks and put it in my sand blaster. I used the smallest tip I had and sometimes had to shake the tank a little but it worked pretty good for getting the last bit of gunk off the case. The fan cleaned up good too.
Posted by: codices Dec 26 2009, 04:15 PM
That really looks nice. A strong encouragement for the rest of us who are so inclined to make things look "purty."
Posted by: zymurgist Dec 26 2009, 04:33 PM
from the guy who powder coated everything that he could unbolt from the Corvette.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Dec 26 2009, 06:04 PM
Is this the same technique they use to strip paint off a car body? Did you do this in an enclosed space? What happens to all that baking soda? 
I like the results you got. Very nice.
Cheers, Elliot
Posted by: crash914 Dec 26 2009, 06:42 PM
Ha, i AM STUCK at work right now...soda blasting. I have 2 contractors here with 3 soda blast pots running....going to be a long night....
There is some special gear involved...if you are going to do it for money...works good..
Posted by: Cheapsnake Dec 26 2009, 06:56 PM
That really looks great. Enlighten me - is soda blasting meant mainly for cosmetic purposes or does it take out rust and other nasty stuff?
Tom
Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 26 2009, 06:59 PM
That really looks great. Enlighten me - is soda blasting meant mainly for cosmetic purposes or does it take out rust and other nasty stuff?
Tom
Doesn't take off rust but it does take off paint without heating up the car body. Cleans up with water and must be cleaned up before paint. Apparently it makes motors look pretty too!
Posted by: r_towle Dec 26 2009, 08:55 PM
We had a guy come over and sode blast a 356 in the driveway.
During the next rain storm all evidence was gone.
It takes off paint, might take off bondo, but not really.
It does nothing to rust or lead filler.
He spot blasted the rust with real abrasive....but he did as little as possible to keep from heating up and warping the panels...
I love that stuff...and glass bead.
Rich
Posted by: Gint Dec 26 2009, 08:57 PM
Looks great! BTDT myself...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=92529&
Posted by: Cevan Dec 26 2009, 09:23 PM
Looks great! BTDT myself...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=92529&
Wow, they look new. My Webers are next.
Posted by: Jacob Dec 26 2009, 10:17 PM
I can't remember on which blog I saw this (I think it was here), but there is a guy who made one of these soda blasters out of an air gun and vinyl tubing.
Here is the link:
http://www.aircooledtech.com/tools-on-the-cheap/soda_blaster/
Posted by: mojorisen914 Dec 26 2009, 11:01 PM
I bought a Snap-On hand held bead blaster and I'm was using soda on my wheels before I headed back over to the middle east.
Word of caution: Don't soda blast in your driveway if you live with a housing association in your neighborhood.....Ask me how I know.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 27 2009, 11:38 PM
The most amazing metal results I've found to date:
It took my metal back to a factory new finish:
Cleans up and is neutralized with vinegar. It does leave a film. I took a gallon of the cheap stuff and a dime store plant sprayer to the whole car afterward.
Awesome job on the engine bits.
Posted by: kwales Dec 28 2009, 12:08 PM
Neutralize baking soda??????
Baking soda is neutral PH and has the ability to convert acids or bases to a neutral PH.... Adding acid (vinegar) makes the baking soda try to neutralize the acid...... With a base such as lye, the baking soda would try to pull the base back to neutral PH. Which is why baking soda is ssoooooo useful in neutralizing swimming pools and for neutralizing spilled acids such as the Ospho that dripped on the concrete while you were trying to remove rust from your teener.
Water as a baking soda eliminator works for me. Water is usually close to a neutral PH too. If it's not, it will be after exposure to the baking soda.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Dec 28 2009, 05:47 PM
I have a siphon blaster (blast from a bucket type deal). What size tip do I need to put on it to make it work for soda. I want to use it to clean up my carb bodies. they are very varnished.
Zach
Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 28 2009, 06:25 PM
Neutralize baking soda??????
Baking soda is neutral PH and has the ability to convert acids or bases to a neutral PH.... Adding acid (vinegar) makes the baking soda try to neutralize the acid...... With a base such as lye, the baking soda would try to pull the base back to neutral PH. Which is why baking soda is ssoooooo useful in neutralizing swimming pools and for neutralizing spilled acids such as the Ospho that dripped on the concrete while you were trying to remove rust from your teener.
Water as a baking soda eliminator works for me. Water is usually close to a neutral PH too. If it's not, it will be after exposure to the baking soda.
Mostly...Baking soda is slightly alkaline. The pH of water varies with its source.
Posted by: scotty b Dec 28 2009, 06:46 PM
I have a siphon blaster (blast from a bucket type deal). What size tip do I need to put on it to make it work for soda. I want to use it to clean up my carb bodies. they are very varnished.
Zach
http://www.eastwood.com/soda-blasting/pressure-blaster-conversion-kits/soda-blasting-retro-fit-kit.html?srccode=ga120010&gclid=CJm0jta1-p4CFQk75QodqncHIQ
Posted by: r_towle Dec 28 2009, 08:43 PM
Neutralize baking soda??????
Baking soda is neutral PH and has the ability to convert acids or bases to a neutral PH.... Adding acid (vinegar) makes the baking soda try to neutralize the acid...... With a base such as lye, the baking soda would try to pull the base back to neutral PH. Which is why baking soda is ssoooooo useful in neutralizing swimming pools and for neutralizing spilled acids such as the Ospho that dripped on the concrete while you were trying to remove rust from your teener.
Water as a baking soda eliminator works for me. Water is usually close to a neutral PH too. If it's not, it will be after exposure to the baking soda.
Mostly...Baking soda is slightly alkaline. The pH of water varies with its source.
LOL
I was talking about cleaning the driveway off...not the sheetmetal...
If you have ever tried to clean sand or other oxide cleaner off the driveway after doing a large item you may appreciate why I fell in love with Baking soda....a hose and a beer is all it takes to clean the driveway...
Rich
Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 28 2009, 08:48 PM
Neutralize baking soda??????
Baking soda is neutral PH and has the ability to convert acids or bases to a neutral PH.... Adding acid (vinegar) makes the baking soda try to neutralize the acid...... With a base such as lye, the baking soda would try to pull the base back to neutral PH. Which is why baking soda is ssoooooo useful in neutralizing swimming pools and for neutralizing spilled acids such as the Ospho that dripped on the concrete while you were trying to remove rust from your teener.
Water as a baking soda eliminator works for me. Water is usually close to a neutral PH too. If it's not, it will be after exposure to the baking soda.
Mostly...Baking soda is slightly alkaline. The pH of water varies with its source.
LOL
I was talking about cleaning the driveway off...not the sheetmetal...
If you have ever tried to clean sand or other oxide cleaner off the driveway after doing a large item you may appreciate why I fell in love with Baking soda....a hose and a beer is all it takes to clean the driveway...
Rich
Pretty much the perfect stuff for us at home guys who don't want to turn our houses into superfund sites...
Posted by: smontanaro Dec 28 2009, 08:52 PM
Sure, the baking soda is pretty much harmless, but what about the paint dust, gas varnish or grease you just blasted off the body, carb or transmission?
S
Posted by: bigkensteele Dec 28 2009, 09:54 PM
Sure, the baking soda is pretty much harmless, but what about the paint dust, gas varnish or grease you just blasted off the body, carb or transmission?
S
Isn't that what the sewer is for?
Posted by: sendjonathanmail Dec 28 2009, 09:58 PM
Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 28 2009, 11:42 PM
Both the soda blaster and the painter advised the apple bath. Said they had seen ruined paint jobs with the film from the soda left behind...
Oh well... at least it smelled like a nice salad for a couple days.
Posted by: oldschool Dec 29 2009, 12:44 AM
The most amazing metal results I've found to date:
It took my metal back to a factory new finish:
Cleans up and is neutralized with vinegar. It does leave a film. I took a gallon of the cheap stuff and a dime store plant sprayer to the whole car afterward.
Awesome job on the engine bits.
so it even removes the paint
Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 29 2009, 11:03 AM
I was intrigued enough by this thread to do some research for local suppliers and I just got off the phone with one.
He seems to think that soda is sacrificial in that it is a one job and throw it out kind of thing. Perhaps he didn't understand that I am intending to use it in a blast cabinet? 50# bag for $46.00? Five 50# bags for $40/bag. Does that sound right?
I have to hook up my shop vac and seal it better as well as change the tips but I want to try this...
Posted by: Rav914 Dec 29 2009, 11:13 AM
This is what I intend on buying (the portable version) when it's time to paint the '70. It may be a little slower than something bigger, but will suit the purpose.
They have a neat video on how it's done.
http://www.ace-sandblasting.com/soda-blasting.html
Posted by: d914 Dec 29 2009, 11:22 AM
removes paint, does not hurt wiring or trim,,,can be used on fiberglass..
and it MUST be washed off..My car sat for six months inside with no rust issues after being blasted..it leaves a protective film or salt..
Posted by: Cevan Dec 29 2009, 11:31 AM
I was intrigued enough by this thread to do some research for local suppliers and I just got off the phone with one.
He seems to think that soda is sacrificial in that it is a one job and throw it out kind of thing. Perhaps he didn't understand that I am intending to use it in a blast cabinet? 50# bag for $46.00? Five 50# bags for $40/bag. Does that sound right?
I have to hook up my shop vac and seal it better as well as change the tips but I want to try this...
I paid $1.17 for 2 lb boxes the other day. This was the regular price. That's about $.59 per lb. You could probably find it cheaper at Costco where they probably sell a 5 or 10 lb box.
Posted by: d914 Dec 29 2009, 11:35 AM
northern tool, 50 lb bags
Posted by: Gint Dec 29 2009, 02:06 PM
I bought 2 twelve pound bags of baking soda at a grocery store and dumped it straight into the cabinet. I can't remember exactly how much it cost, but it wasn't half of $50. I didn't change the tip on the gun. I used the same one I use for glass bead. I don't even know what size it is. I did turn the pressure down when using soda. 30-40 psi IIRC.
It seems like some folks want to make this harder than it is. It's pretty simple when you get right down to it. Especially with soda. You aren't going to hurt much using baking soda. You can take finish off of stuff like carbs (like light zinc plating, etc...) though if you blast in one spot long enough.
Posted by: aircooledtechguy Dec 29 2009, 02:08 PM
Sure, the baking soda is pretty much harmless, but what about the paint dust, gas varnish or grease you just blasted off the body, carb or transmission?
S
I'm not trying to split hairs here, but old dried paint dust/flakes is not hazmat. Paint is really only considered a hazmat when in a liquid form. As for the grease and gas varnish. . . if you cleaned it with regular carb cleaner and rags you would not only have the gunk, but also the carb cleaner and contaminated rags to deal with. Most folks throw them in the trash. . . This makes even more stuff out there in the land fill. . .
To further put things in perspective, do any of your cars leak oil?? A leaking car will put way more bad stuff in the environment than cleaning a part with soda ever will.
Posted by: mepstein Dec 29 2009, 02:53 PM
I'm getting this done on my car before paint. Blaster said soda is one time use since the crystals shatter when they hit the surface.
I was intrigued enough by this thread to do some research for local suppliers and I just got off the phone with one.
He seems to think that soda is sacrificial in that it is a one job and throw it out kind of thing. Perhaps he didn't understand that I am intending to use it in a blast cabinet? 50# bag for $46.00? Five 50# bags for $40/bag. Does that sound right?
I have to hook up my shop vac and seal it better as well as change the tips but I want to try this...
Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 29 2009, 03:29 PM
I'm getting this done on my car before paint. Blaster said soda is one time use since the crystals shatter when they hit the surface.
Yes! That's it. He said his was courser and environmentally safe. Shattering on contact would explain his feeling that it was sacrificial.
Posted by: aircooledtechguy Dec 29 2009, 05:55 PM
Yes! That's it. He said his was courser and environmentally safe. Shattering on contact would explain his feeling that it was sacrificial.
That's also why you can't re-use soda; it's one time use stuff.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Dec 29 2009, 06:36 PM
I am just going to try this tonight with my blast from a bucket blaster, to see how it works.
Zach
Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 29 2009, 07:42 PM
Yes! That's it. He said his was courser and environmentally safe. Shattering on contact would explain his feeling that it was sacrificial.
That's also why you can't re-use soda; it's one time use stuff.
Nate, Sorry if I wasn't clear. My epiphany is that if the larger crystals shatter on impact that is why it is sacrificial meaning it shouldn't be reused. Sounds though as if Gint and others are having good luck with plain powder baking soda...
Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 29 2009, 08:54 PM
Yup. There's two basic types you're talking about here...
Grocery store and, Industrial Body Shop/Graffitti types.
You can get good results with the grocery store stuff on the small parts like carbs etc. It's good for cleaning up metal llike the first post shows.
For paint removal you'll really need the coarse industrial type and yes... that's one use stuff.
Here's some pictures of it being done on my tub:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=21130&id=1409883264&l=d147b32ef5
Posted by: Smitty911 Dec 29 2009, 09:02 PM
This is what I intend on buying (the portable version) when it's time to paint the '70. It may be a little slower than something bigger, but will suit the purpose.
They have a neat video on how it's done.
http://www.ace-sandblasting.com/soda-blasting.html
I looked at that one and it only holds 10lbs of soda. The Eastwood small one can hold 100 lbs and is about the same money.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Dec 29 2009, 09:35 PM
Well, I am back in from my blasting experiment.
I just got a 1 pound box of generic soda from the grocery store, and used my blast from a bucket sand blaster (after running it with the siphon free to make sure all the old blast media was removed!)
It worked better then I would have thought! 1 pound of cheap soda cleaned one carb body. I started the other, but need more soda to finish it. It did a surprisingly good job, considering that I don't have any of the special soda blasting equipment.
It might not strip a car, but it worked well on my carb bodies.
Zach
Posted by: Gint Dec 29 2009, 09:36 PM
Posted by: Gint Dec 29 2009, 09:41 PM
And I'd love to see a material data sheet for the "coarse industrial type" of soda. Anybody have one or know of a source on the net?
Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 29 2009, 11:52 PM
And I'd love to see a material data sheet for the "coarse industrial type" of soda. Anybody have one or know of a source on the net?
The place I called earlier today does mostly commercial contract work. Get rid of graffiti before opening of the store in the morning kind of stuff and lots of historic restoration. I was shocked to hear the stuff can be used on wood. Makes an 1800's Victorian look like virgin timber!
As they are a business with employees and under OSHA I have to guess they would have to have an MSDS. The guy did say on the phone though that the stuff they sell is very environmentally friendly.
Posted by: kg6dxn Dec 30 2009, 12:00 AM
try www.msds.com for your MSDS needs.
Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 30 2009, 12:16 AM
try www.msds.com for your MSDS needs.
You need the product name for that. Sodium Bicarbonate or baking soda is too broad a search parameter.
Posted by: Gint Dec 30 2009, 07:15 AM
As they are a business with employees and under OSHA I have to guess they would have to have an MSDS. The guy did say on the phone though that the stuff they sell is very environmentally friendly.
I've seen trim and turn signal lenses blasted right over using soda. No damage to them at all. It really is a cool material/process.
Posted by: zymurgist Dec 30 2009, 07:39 AM
It might not strip a car, but it worked well on my carb bodies.
and, the obligatgory:
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Dec 30 2009, 08:23 AM
I will take pics later today and post them, but I have to go help my mom for a few hours now. I went out early this morning and got a 2# box of store brand soda and cleaned them both again, and gave them a rinse. They look new, except for stains in the parts where pits formed. The soda did not remove the dark stains, but it did remove any buildup and varnish and gunk.
Zach
Posted by: Dead Air Dec 30 2009, 09:01 AM
The expensive part is the compressor big enough to sandblast with. that's what's frustrating me. I don't have $800 laying around to buy one.
Posted by: aircooledtechguy Dec 30 2009, 09:21 AM
It might not strip a car, but it worked well on my carb bodies.
and, the obligatgory:
Here are a pair of Solex 32PBJ carbs from a '55 Porsche I assisted in restoring. With the store bought stuff it didn't even remove that blueish surface finish on the stock carb castings. They came out like new, but you be the judge.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Dec 30 2009, 01:40 PM
The expensive part is the compressor big enough to sandblast with. that's what's frustrating me. I don't have $800 laying around to buy one.
If you are into old cars, it is money VERY well spent.
I bought mine from CPO Porter Cable in 2006. 60 gallon, single stage, shipping was only $5, and I think I paid ~500 for the whole thing. The same compressor is now more expensive, and they no longer offer the shipping deal. However, it is big enough to run all the tools I own. If I installed a blasting cabinat, I'd probably want a bigger one, but the one I have now has NO problem keeping up with my blast from a bucket sand blaster.
Its the single power tool I have in my shop that I think I would be lost without, as it gets used for just about everything.
Zach
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Dec 30 2009, 02:16 PM
I did not take before pictures... I should have.
I actually had a hard tome shooting these, as the flash was creating so much glare off the polished aluminum.
Zach
Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 30 2009, 02:21 PM
I wonder if it would 'clean' up plastic parts. For instance, the targa cups in the trunk tend to get a greyish or yellowish tinge to them after a while. Maybe this would whiten them up?
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Dec 30 2009, 02:35 PM
Rob, I am going to take a nap for a bit right now, but I have 4 pounds of el-cheapo baking soda left. I'll try it and report back tonight. I am looking for ideas of more things to try and clean!
Posted by: iamchappy Dec 30 2009, 02:43 PM
How's it work on teeth........
Posted by: Gint Dec 30 2009, 02:51 PM
Maybe I'll check. After my nap...
Posted by: zymurgist Dec 30 2009, 02:54 PM
I did not take before pictures... I should have.
I actually had a hard tome shooting these, as the flash was creating so much glare off the polished aluminum.
Zach
Nice!
Posted by: aircooledtechguy Dec 30 2009, 03:39 PM
The expensive part is the compressor big enough to sandblast with. that's what's frustrating me. I don't have $800 laying around to buy one.
Check your local Craigslist. People are dumping everything on there cheap now.
Posted by: smontanaro Dec 30 2009, 03:39 PM
What about removing paint from the plastic headlight cap/trim thingies? Mine were painted black. I'd like to try to get the paint off them but think any sort of paint remover chemical would probably hose up the plastic.
Skip
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 4 2010, 03:29 PM
I wonder if it would 'clean' up plastic parts. For instance, the targa cups in the trunk tend to get a greyish or yellowish tinge to them after a while. Maybe this would whiten them up?
Rob, the yellowing in plastic parts is internal due to internal changes IIRC from what my Dad the petro-chemist told me - he passed 12/08 so I can't ask him again, or wouldn't get an answer even if I tried!
So blasting shouldn't change that discoloration much, except at the surface layer crud level.
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 4 2010, 03:30 PM
What about removing paint from the plastic headlight cap/trim thingies? Mine were painted black. I'd like to try to get the paint off them but think any sort of paint remover chemical would probably hose up the plastic.
Skip
... me too! ....
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