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Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 22 2004, 04:09 PM

I know for sure that Im going to stick dual carbs on my 1975 2.0 But the mechanic said its going to cost $500-$600 for the carbs he hasn't looked yet to see what he can get. I asked if they were weber carbs and he said those are going to cost alot more. Im thinking about getting some carbs online myself and just pay for the labor to get them put on. That will probley be cheaper. But Im not sure of any good places. Im looking for some good carbs that arn't going to be over kill but will make my porsche run really good.
Im asking for help with the carbs and I have made my mind up that Im not sticking with fuel injection so please don't tell me how good fual injection is and how I should not go with carbs. Thanks to all those who help

Posted by: mike_the_man Mar 22 2004, 04:17 PM

Stick with the fuel injection . I know nothing about carbs, but ebay is always a good place to check. At least you'll get an idea of prices. You could sell you fuel injection to fund the carbs, as well. I know you've been having a hell of a time with the injection, but IMHO, once you get it sorted it will be better than carbs.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 22 2004, 04:22 PM

dude, stick with the FI !

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 22 2004, 04:22 PM

so he knows it'll be $500 but he doesn't know for what.
but he knows Webers will be "a lot" more, but he doesn't know what he's getting for $500.

RUN AWAY ! (he's clueless...)

did that "$500-$600" include a new fuel pump ?

i ran 40mm Dellortos on my 1,7; ran fine. i have no idea if they're still available, or at what cost, or where to find manifolds and linkage. i got mine over the counter at Small Car in Anaheim. I know they're still in business but i have no idea what parts they sell nowadays - if they even sell aircooled parts. "CB Performance" still sells aircooled parts AFAIK.

installing a set of carburetors is not rocket science (the linkage requires a bit of thought) and i think this mechanic person sees you as an easy mark.

you've proven remarkably resistent to good advice, so i have no idea how or if you'll act on this ...

Posted by: lapuwali Mar 22 2004, 04:29 PM

Dual Weber 40 IDFs are the best setup for NEW carbs. Kits start at $500, not including hose, a fuel pressure regulator, and a fuel pump. The $600 CB Performance kit is supposed to have the best linkage (I have this linkage, and like it). You can find a set used on Ebay for $300-400, but they'll also require a rebuild kit ($40 per carb, assuming you do the rebuild yourself). The $700 kit from Aircooled.net is supposed to have the best jetting setup out of the box and the best after sale support.

You cannot use the stock EFI fuel pump, you'll have to replace it with a lower volume pump suitable for carbs (Webers need no more than 3 psi of fuel pressure, the EFI setup generates 30 psi or more) and a fuel pressure regulator suitable for carbs. A Facet pump can be had for $50-75. On the '75, the fuel pump is in a well in front of the passenger's feet, which is the ideal place to put the carb pump.

If your mechanic was talking something cheaper than Webers, I'd be very wary. Not all VW engines are the same, and there are a lot of relatively inexpensive setups for the Type I and Type II engines that don't work on the Type IV. The manifolds required are completely different. The dual IDF setup is by far the most common on the 914, so you'll have little trouble finding people who can help you diagnose them and provide parts.

Save all of your fuel injection parts, and be careful removing them. You can sell it for a good amount of money ($200-300).

Posted by: echocanyons Mar 22 2004, 04:30 PM

If you have to go carbed I have a set of dual single solexes with type 4 intakes.
electric chokes too for those cold mornings(but not in St. George).
Freshly rebuilt. same as the euro carbbed types AFAIK
Linkage is a bit incomplete but CB performance can set you up with a good set.
I was gonna throw them on Ebay but Ill let you have them for 75.00 since your a member and all
But keep in mind these wont yield as much power as the dual, dual webers but are a far stretch better than the pinto type weber single time bombs.

Posted by: echocanyons Mar 22 2004, 04:34 PM

or these ones on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2468617408&category=33550&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1


BTW I dont have the air cleaners

Posted by: ! Mar 22 2004, 04:35 PM

Unless a 914 engine has been rebuilt WITH a carb friendly cam, carb(s) in a 914 is a sign that the mechanic and/or owner don't know DICK about L-Jet or D-Jet fuel injection.

If you WANT carbs get a motor that is done right and will respond to the carbs....gee, isn't there someone selling a complete motor on this list?

Adding carbs to a stock motor is NOT a performance upgrade. If you have a budget for 500 bucks worth of carbs...spend it on fixing the FI....find a wrench that CAN do it or learn to fix it yourself....

OR come up with 4,000 more and get my complete motor....

Posted by: echocanyons Mar 22 2004, 04:36 PM

ebay carbs


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Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 22 2004, 05:04 PM

Im wondering how well will something like this work and is the price good they say there for the 914

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2466996709&category=33550

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2466998574&category=33550

Posted by: nebreitling Mar 22 2004, 05:07 PM

i'm gonna give you some really horrible advice here:

if you really are in over your head with the FI (which you could probably figure out in a week or two with a $30 multimeter and some serious effort, but that's another story...) AND don't want to spend the money on a knowledgable porsche mechanic to set up your D-jet (which would probably cost $200-$600 in labor):

then just buy a crappy single ("solex"?) carb on ebay and pay the VW mechanic to install it. your car won't run great, but hell -- at least it will run. then, in the meanwhile, you can figure out all your Djet stuff on your own, and replace it on your own. you can consider it a performance upgrade (which it surely will be).

again, this is probably BAD advice -- with only a little extra effort right now you can probably get the Djet working (and for roughly the same amount -- or less -- of money as carbs), but i just want to hear that you're driving your car.

btw: the twin solex carbs on ebay (mentioned above) might work well for your mechanic

Posted by: lapuwali Mar 22 2004, 05:08 PM

You don't *need* a "carb-friendly cam" to make the Webers work. It won't be any more powerful than a working D-Jet system, but it will be a lot more powerful than a non-working D-Jet system, which is what the original poster has now.

I'll grant that it would be much cheaper and really probably much easier to just fix the D-Jet, assuming our original poster had the time and patience to do it. Clearly, patience is at an end here, and if he wants to fit carbs, OK. Fit them. The car will run and be drivable, which is an improvement over not being drivable.

He's clearly more willing to listen to the local mechanic than people on this board (at least for now), which is only natural. You have to let 16 year olds make mistakes, cause they're going to make them no matter what you do. <_<

Posted by: nebreitling Mar 22 2004, 05:10 PM

those are 48's and 34's

get 40's or 44's

Posted by: lapuwali Mar 22 2004, 05:11 PM

No, you don't want 48 IDFs. Way too big for a stock engine. The manifolds pictured are also not correct for the 914.

Posted by: mike_the_man Mar 22 2004, 05:12 PM

I think MikeZ said it best. Put the money into your injection. Plus, the car will be worth more, in my opinion, if it comes time to sell.

Posted by: jkeyzer Mar 22 2004, 05:20 PM

Before you spend a ton of money on the car you might want to have someone who knows something about 914s come and check the rest of the car out for rust and other major issues.

I think I am getting very pessimistic after reading so many posts on these BBSs, but it seems like more first time owners get screwed with 914s than most other cars. There are just so many f-d up 914s out there, it's not even funny.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 22 2004, 05:20 PM

dito, those (manifolds) ain't going to fit ...


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Posted by: jkeyzer Mar 22 2004, 05:27 PM

Do they sell manifolds for 3 bolt heads?

Seems like most of the stuff would be 4 bolt (VW bus etc.)

Carb newbie here, don't you guys even get started on me until you know the big picture. Sheesh. You'd think d-jet was a cure for cancer around here.

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 22 2004, 05:27 PM

I have check the car there is a little rust by the battery tray and I have a hole under the passanger side seat which Im going to fix soon. The thing is the car was sitting out side for along time with no rain tray so now every wire I touch it seems to break off or fall apart. If I was going to stay with fuel inection I would want a brand new system computer and all the wires that way I can start fresh if anyone can find something like then I would consider staying with it.

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 22 2004, 05:30 PM

Use this BBS as a resource to fix the djet. You will be way ahead....

Geoff

Posted by: nebreitling Mar 22 2004, 05:33 PM

well, this is the sobering truth, isn't it?

just remember that $5-600 isn't going to be the end of it, mr. cactus. you have a car that hasn't (really) run in who knows how long. aside from the hole under the seat, who knows what other problems exist?

if you are looking for instant gratification with this thing, you will be disappointed. if you are looking for a car that you can learn a tremendous amount on, put all of your extra time and money into, and have a little fun in the process, you will be rewarded. it will take a lot of patience, blah, blah, i better stop before i sound like someone's father...

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 22 2004, 05:34 PM

Here is some 44 I email the guy he said the pictures are not the actual ones.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2467096845&category=33550

That look like a good price.

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 22 2004, 05:36 PM

Well I can get the car to run buy pouring fuel right into the throttle body and its sounds really good.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 22 2004, 05:43 PM

well, that's good news!



i say,
throw away your old FI engine harness and PM brad and buy a used FI engine harness from him.

but, i'm biased towards FI
Andy

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 22 2004, 05:53 PM

How much will a new fl injection system cost compared to carbs

Posted by: ! Mar 22 2004, 05:54 PM

It was written.....

You don't *need* a "carb-friendly cam" to make the Webers work. It won't be any more powerful than a working D-Jet system, but it will be a lot more powerful than a non-working D-Jet system, which is what the original poster has now.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I never said you need a carb friendly cam to run carbs....carbs WILL run on a stock motor...it's just a NOT a performance upgrade....you get lousy mileage, usually the motor runs rich or lean and generally pisses off the motor or worse yet makes it drop a seat or burn a piston if you run too lean for too long.

A stock motor is just that...STOCK, the design gave what it could. Any motor, foreign or domestic has the same problem when introducing a different intake system....ALL components need to be changed for it too work right and have an increase in HP as well....

There's no free lunch.

Posted by: lapuwali Mar 22 2004, 05:55 PM

bowlsby, on this very board (see the suppliers page) can set you up with a better than new fuel injection wiring harness. I VERY strongly doubt your ECU has any problems at all. For D-Jet, it's such a simple device that there's just not much to go wrong in there. The wiring harnesses DO age and can develop problems, but the replacement harness will take care of that.

Note that if you do have electrical problems (you also need to see if the relay board is any good), then just adding carbs won't fix everything, and may still not get the car going.

What you've bought is a mystery project car, and you're going to need to educate yourself significantly to get it going. This is fine, as you're hardly in a position to need the car, and you have lots of time to work it out. Consider it an opportunity.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 22 2004, 05:58 PM

i'm sure you can get everything you need from brad for less than the costs of new carbs.

call HPH and ask for him. make sure you mention the 914club.
heck, it might even help to mention my name

http://www.highperformancehouse.com/

explain the situation. send him your stuff as a core. he'll work something out.
Andy

Posted by: anthony Mar 22 2004, 06:22 PM

Here's two pages to learn about djet:

http://www.rennlist.org/techarticles/djetronicfuel.htm

and

http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/

So here's what I'd do before I spend $1K buying and getting carbs installed and tuned:

Read the troubleshooting sections on those web pages (especially Brad Ander's page) and go through each FI component and test. This will take you maybe a Saturday afternoon. To test fuel pressure you need a $40 gauge from the parts store and to test the MPS properly you need a $30 vacuum gauge. The fuel pressure is probably ok though and if you can verify that fuel is reaching the injectors then the problem probably isn't fuel pressure related. You can do a quicky test on the MPS by sucking on it and seeing if there's any vacuum. But even with a bad MPS the car should probably run.

After you start testing you can post any questions here and you'll probably get fast answers. Your problem after all may not be with the fuel injection but with maybe the fuel delivery system.

But before you start check specific fuel injection components I think you have many other things to check.

Is the fuel pump working? Does it "buzz" when you turn the key?

Is fuel squirting out of the injectors?

Is the tank clogged?

When was the last time the filter and fuel lines were changed?

Do you have spark?

Is the timing set correctly?

It seems like spending a couple weekend afternoons diagnosing your car could potentially save you about a grand.

Posted by: tod914 Mar 22 2004, 06:22 PM

Don't rule that out! I spend a butt load of time, aggrivation, and money trying to sort out mine when that was the problem. Very easy to swap out. Probally not a bad place to start.

If you found a local 914 person, you could spend an afternoon swapping your parts into his to test them.
A friend did that with me and it helped diagnoses the bad ecu.

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 22 2004, 06:34 PM

Does anyone here not drive a 914 with carbs. All I have seen is fuel injection people and really havn't got a real good opinion why I should not switch to carbs. Someone with dual carbs give me your opinion.

Posted by: echocanyons Mar 22 2004, 06:45 PM

My carbs had problems and seemed like they were constantly out of tune.

I also had a bit of trouble moving from SLC to Corpus because of the alt change.

But they sounded real good and the power felt good.

But it was better than nuthin I guess.

BTW my car has been out of commission for ~4 months due to rust

Posted by: anthony Mar 22 2004, 06:57 PM

Most of us, aren't "fuel injection people". We are motorheads - car people. The 914 came with fuel injection so it's what most people have.

It sounds like you have a mental block about working on the car's fuel system. We are just trying to save a $1000 bill from your mechanic for a carb conversion. If your tank is clogged, going to carbs isn't going to help. Do some basic troubleshooting before you throw in the towel.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 22 2004, 07:14 PM

i did, a couple of pages ago, remember ?

go here: http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=493

and check this out:

Part Number 6410 Dual 40 IDF Kit for 914 Porsche $609.95

these people KNOW what they are talking about.
you will also need a fuel pump; you CANNOT use the FI pump, even with any kind of regulator. at best, it'll run like cr&p; at worst, it'll run like cr&p until it bursts into flame and burns to the ground.

with bits and pieces and odds and ends you should be out the door for $750 or less.

obviously, we don't know the situation in St George for local, Porsche-oriented mechanics. in a more 914-oriented part of the world there'd be a qualified shop you could use to get your car together for less than that, but we'll assume that's not an option.

YOU must do the legwork. we can HELP but YOU must do the work...

Posted by: tod914 Mar 22 2004, 07:14 PM

Thought I just seen a recent add for a FI setup. Check the classifieds here. If your FI pump is bad, I have one that is a year old. Works perfect, I'll give you a good price on it if you need it and decide to stay with FI.
Maybe post what you have done so far in this thread. Im sure the technically savy FI guru's here would be happy to offer some advice. I considered myself a total noob too. But, since the time I purchased my 1st 914 in 98, until present, I have to say I learned a fair amount from the good people here in the club. Be persistant and try to do the work yourself!

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 22 2004, 07:35 PM

I had dual Dells when I got my car in 95. Ran great at full throttle and got maybe 12 mpg. Startup sucked, had to sit there and warm the car up so it wouldn't pop and spit while trying to go. I fought those damn things for 2 years.
I located a complete used 2.0 w/FI and installed it. I took me six months to figure out the FI as then there wasn't the internet info on how to repair it.
I then had the motor rebuilt to a 2056cc motor and tuned the FI to run great.
Even if its cold the motor starts right up witha twist of the key and idles.
I can drive away and no spitting, poping nor that loud sucking noise of the dualcarbs in your ears.

Sounds like the fuel pump isn't working to me. Take out an injector and stick it in jar, turn the key to see if it sprays fuel. UNDO THE POWER to the coil so there is no spark!


Report back to the BBS

Geoff

Posted by: lapuwali Mar 22 2004, 07:44 PM

I also have dual carbs (40 IDFs), and put them on because the PO had removed the D-Jet, replaced it with a crappy single carb, and lost some parts to the D-Jet. Fitting a set of carbs got me running in a week, where hunting down the lost bits to the D-Jet and getting that working would have easily stretched into 2-3 weeks. The carbs have required a good bit of fiddling post install, and yes, cold starts are a hassle. Cold, btw, means engine cold, not cold outside. 60dF is cold enough to require some effort to get them to start (2-3 tries, and you have to let it warm up some before moving). I only get about 22mpg, and I'm sure I'd get more with D-Jet.

I am going to switch to EFI ASAP, but have two project cars going and a full time job. The carbs are simply a stop-gap because I could afford to spend the money, but not the time. If you're like most 16 year olds, you have more time than money to blow, so fixing the D-Jet is a better way to go.

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 22 2004, 08:49 PM

With all the help on this BBS it should be pretty easy to toubleshoot. We had 16yr old Andrew up and running last year!

geoff

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 22 2004, 09:45 PM

I wish I was like that but the whole reason I wen't out got a job was to so I could buy my 914 and Im making a whole alot of money then I though I would ever have. With school I have no time at all to go blow my money and let alone to really work on my porsche or do anything.They work me 4-5 days a week. I have about 2-3 days after school to work on it. It dosn't help that it gets dark early ether. Untell they hire another busses once it really starts to pick up again probley in about 2 months is when I will get more days off sence they will hire again .Untell then I just want to drive my porsch around. I mean if I did go with carbs then my dad could really help me with my car sence he grew on working on cars with carbs the guy seem to know what he was talking about he said he had done it to a few 914 and he even showed me the ones he did on his super bettle but Im going to find out more tomarrow once he takes a look under the hood.

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 22 2004, 11:25 PM

Ok here is another set of Dual Weber 44 IDF kit. Would this include everything I need to stick them on and make it run besides the top plate that might need to be replaced. Thanks. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33550&item=2468125821

Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 23 2004, 06:35 AM

ixnay on those carbs imho. the inlet was broken in shippment(?,how does one manage that?) and a half assed repair was done. that is a crappy, crappy linkage. i run carbs on one of my cars. but, listen geoff , sort out the f.i. for the price of the carbs and installation you could ship the car to hph and have someone get it up to snuff. bolting on the carbs is 1/2 of the equation. they WILL have to be jetted correctly and "dialed" in, and that is another cat you can and will chase. i would suggest you stop pouring gas into the throttle body now that you know it will run. IF you gotta get carbs, do get the rotary pump FOR CARBS from cb. 44's are to big. as for being in a hurry, the days are getting longer and warmer. it took me 13 months to get the 73' up and running. there are a number of people here who are "working" on their cars. "working" as in trying to get them running, so you're not solo in this type of endevour.

edit. look, the ad has been running for 5 days. think to yourself, "why are there no bids if this is a good deal?"

kevin

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 23 2004, 07:13 AM

the current problem on the engine is that you have no idea what is and what isn't working. the "best" way to address that is to assume nothing, check everything, and go all the way back to basics. but that does take a certain amount of experience and mechanical intuition, so we won't go down that path.

but the fact is, you don't know what's what. to make ANY headway, you must use ONLY KNOWN-GOOD parts. not a "99.9% complete" "only a little broken" rebuilt second-hand project setup. ask any of us who've spent A WEEK trying to round up that last 0,1% part without which the car will not run!

the parts you get must be in KNOWN GOOD WORKING condition from someone you can trust. (that's everybody in this thread, and most people on the board...)

whether it's a carb setup or FI parts, get what you're getting from some who can KNOW THEY WORK.

if you had a good baseline working reference engine, you could fix and tune an unknown carb setup - with a chassis dyno and a wideband gas analyzer.

Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 23 2004, 07:37 AM

isn't mikez selling a set? buy geoff a plane ticket and a few lift tickets. tell him to bring his $650 new in box mps or one of his $150 recalibrated ones. then the gas analyzer and dyno time. there goes another $100+ per hour . fix the f.i.

i have to ask. what is the insurance premium for a 16 y.o. driving a 914?

kevin

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 23 2004, 08:14 AM

Haha I have already check the insurance and its going to cost me $401 every 6 months thats about $75 or something a month. Well today Im going to talk to the mechanic and see what he has done to my car.

Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 23 2004, 08:19 AM

$802 is less than i expected. at 16 you prob have'nt racked up too many tickets.

kevin

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 23 2004, 08:30 AM

It would of been about $700 every 6 months but I watch a safe driving video plus took a test for the insurance company and they took off $250 plus I got good grades in school so that was another $50

Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 23 2004, 08:33 AM

good job. if you were my son and kept your grades at a level to get the discount, i'd give you the dif towards your insurance.

kevin

Posted by: tat2dphreak Mar 23 2004, 08:36 AM

he can't rack up tix until the car is fixed

Cactus,
I'm a carb guy myself, but even I would say FIX THE FI! you need to learn one fuel system or the other, and FI is better to know in the future... and I believe is better for a stock sized engine. carbs require more "tinkering" in the future, and IMHO can be HARDER to learn without someone to show you... I only know carbs b/c that's what my dad taught in Small Block Chevy Land... and even he would say to learn FI while you can. I think many of us have carbs because that's all we know... carbs are easier to set up, but MUCH more difficult to get RIGHT...

you have the best FI support group on the WEB! we're all behind you!

Posted by: ! Mar 23 2004, 08:41 AM

Gee, one guy reads my stuff....

Yeah I got a set....44s with linkage, plus a dizzy....a couple of them, an 050 and an 009. They were jetted a little bigger than he needs but I have a box of jets and stuff....

Willing to seperate them from the motor....was asking $600.00. Needs air filters. Zeke ran them w/o....I don'ty think the carbs have more than 2 hours on them....

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 23 2004, 09:16 AM

Yeah, and Zeke burnt up his motor with them!!! in only 4 laps!!!!!
Thats why the FI is the way to go but hell all of us were young once and shot ourselves in the foot cuz we knew better!

I have nothing against carbs except on a stock motor as the djet or ljet is a nice fuel system.
I ran a 750 holley on my old truck with a 390ci. got near 325hp out of that beast 2 5mpg.


Geoff

Posted by: ! Mar 23 2004, 09:23 AM

Jesus Geoff....isn't that a "little" simplistic? Zeke's engine had issues such as high compression and an overly aggressive advance that was unique to HIS engine. Coupled with a high speed pass at Willow Springs with out an engine break in period.... flame out....

You can't blame the engine flame out on the the carbs....you sound like Captain Crusty on Rennlist....use blue RTV and die, use braided stainless steel brake lines and die....

If the "cactus boy" wants the carbs they are available.

email me direct at 356@cox.net

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 23 2004, 09:30 AM

I was just pointing out that nothing is "bolt on" everything requires some effort to make it work right. I had suggested to Zeke to dyno that puppy......

Mikes carbs should be a good deal if he just can't figure out the FI. Someone here should know the baseline jetting for em too.

Geoff

Posted by: ! Mar 23 2004, 09:38 AM

Yup...I agree...

Posted by: cgnj Mar 23 2004, 09:38 AM

Hi,
Start Rant
We want you to succeed. None of us have our hands in your wallet. We have 914s. Most of us do put own work. Why do we do that? Is it because we are cheap? Or is it because 99% of the time the guy with his hand on your wallet, trying to sell you something doesn't really know these cars, works on some similar air-cooled product and has a similar fix that may or may not resolve your issues. I never worked on my own cars. I did a carb conversion on my first car. Here is the story. Circa 1982

Car was idling low or high, I don't recall. Took it to a local porsche shop (356 and 911). Paid for 6 hours of premium labor. What I got. Couldn't diagnose my problem. What I got. Advanced or retatded my timing, pick one. I am about 24 and unassertive. I eat the bill. I drive home and swear that no shop will ever do mechanicals on my car again. I realized that I could have bought and shipped to my doorstep, the new-fangle dual Dellorto 40mm carbs and a 050 distributor complete and have money leftover to buy tools and a Haynes book for less than what I just paid for essentially nothing. I did that.

While I was installing them, I found the cause of my idling problem. Bottom nut on intake manifold spun off and I had an intake leak. I spent about $1000 in 1982 dollars to "fix" 5 minute no parts problem.

I took the time to search for all of your posts. Because I want to beat you up? No, I want to help you. There are two many. From what I can tell, This car was a runner with a starting problem when you first bought it. You post questions, we try to help. On the posts that I have scanned, it seems that you don't ever really say. I found the problem or I fixed it. It works is different from I fixed it. Every fix seems to have lead to a different problem. We have no way of knowing if you actually are doing what the various members who probably have more direct experience with these cars than than your air-cooled guy and don't have our hands on you're wallet.

You have to let us help you. You have to say, yes I did exactly that. This is what happened. Don't do anything else. Don't leave anything out. We want you to succeed. We want you to be happy. We want you to like 914s. If you continue like this people will start to tune you out. You will be left with a non-op 914.

This site is better than a Haynes manual. It's better than (pick a number) 99% of the shops or people who tell you they know 914s.
End Rant

Why don't you start a new thread with a time line that starts with:
I bought this car I had to bump start it because the starter wonk crank. This is what I did to fix it to Should I buy carbs?

Save your money for stuff you really need, like gas and insurance.

Carlos
Wish I had a 914 and the internet when I was 16

Posted by: ! Mar 23 2004, 09:42 AM

Good advice....

Posted by: mike_the_man Mar 23 2004, 09:53 AM

Totally! He keeps asking questions, but I'm never sure if he listens to any of the advice. It almost seems like he doesn't. These cars can be damn frustrating, but you have to step back, clear your head, and approach things logically.

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 23 2004, 10:06 AM

What do you expect he is 16....
Atleast Andyrew would post, "I did that and it didn't work, now what?" and "OKAY its fixed, now this doesn't work what did I do?"

Geoff

Posted by: tod914 Mar 23 2004, 10:28 AM

Cactus,

Here is something you should do even if you decide to get carbs!

1. Drain and clean the fuel tank. Replace the tank lines. Replace the fuel filter.

It is very easy to do and here is how you do it.

a. The gas tank evaporator(plastic box where your pour gas into), unbolt that. I think it's 6mm bolts on the top. Remove it. Unplug the wire that attaches to the fuel sender.
b. Siphon out all the gas. Look inside with a flash for any rust. Check for debree by the screen.
c. There is a big bolt that is on the top of the tank that is holding on a clamp. Undo that. Now, start to pull out the tank. There are two lines. One feed and one return. The one with the screen inside the tank is the feed. The other, the return. LABEL them on your tank. Also label where the hoses go into the fire wall. "F" and "R". Feed and Return or A & B dont really matter as long as it is consistant.
d. Now, remove the hoses and take out the tank. If the tank has rust, take it to a radiator shop, have it boiled and lined. There is this red rubbery liner they can use to create a bladded. Have them use that. Never have another rust problem. For fuel lines, you can use 8mm inner diameter high pressure line or order a kit from AA. Price will be about the same. The high pressure lines aren't needed there, but hey will last longer. Install is the reverse.
Buy enough line to redo all the lines in the engine bay as well.

Stuff you'll need;

4 inner injector seals, 4 outer injector seals, gas tank gasket for evaporator, 2 intake manifold seals. 4 FUEL INJECTION hose
clamps (not the kind u buy at home depot), new hose clamps for the fuel lines in the engine bay.
Find a local foriegn auto parts store. They should have the line and clamps.
Once you determine your fuel source is uncontamined/blocked, then we can help you with the rest of the system. Most of the vendors like Pelican will carry what you need. Only AA has the fuel sock.

That you can do yourself in a few hours. If your tank is clean with no rust, then blow it out with air. DONT use water! Make sure the sock isnt corroded. Once that is done let us know. I can walk you through the same steps that was taught to me by a member if you like. And or, Im sure other's are more than willing to help you out as you can see. PM me if you need my phone number.

Posted by: Scott Schroeder Mar 23 2004, 10:34 AM

1972 2.0, carb specific webcam, euro pistons, dual 40's, MSD, compufire, and a factory 2.0 dizzy with an active vacume advance tapped into the passenger side carb.

Car was not run since right after Halloween. Uncovered it two weekends ago, turned on the key, hit the gas pedal once and it fired right up - no coughing/spitting - nothing. Immediately dropped to a 950 idle. Drove it all day. It took the tranny longer to warm up than the motor.
Do what you want - it's your car. I do agree that dropping a grand into a car that has never run would not be my first choice - new carbs wont cure a major mechanical issue.

Before everyone jumps all over my car, realise that I did not have the option of fixing my FI. It appears from reciepts that my car was one that had an FI engine fire - there is litterally not a shred of FI on my car anywhere - including randome things like the charcoal canister/lines. There was no way I was or ever will invest in all of the *used* parts to re-assemble that system. You want me to do an engine rebuild on a car that runs great just so some think its right?

Posted by: brians914 Mar 23 2004, 10:42 AM

Thanks Tod for posting that detailed proceedure. I bought a fuel pump relocation kit last summer and did not do it because removing the fuel tank seemed like a more difficult task. I guess I can do that one in a weekend. Thanks again, Brian.

Posted by: anthony Mar 23 2004, 10:53 AM

Chill out Scott. Nobody is suggested he repair his FI system 'just because' it's right. He's in a totally different place than you were. He's got all the FI pieces but he doesn' t even know why the car is not starting/running. He doesn't know if his tank, filter or lines are plugged. He has no idea whether his fuel pump is working or not. We're just trying to save the kid a grand.

I just don't understand the "I'm switching to carbs because I don't undestand FI" attittude. If someone spends a couple hours reading and a couple hours with a multimeter they'll understand djet pretty well in just a Saturday afternoon. The tests for the individual components are usually pretty easy to do.

Posted by: cgnj Mar 23 2004, 10:56 AM

I rowed the same boat. I priced backdating to FI. Carbs are cheaper.

This car was a runner that needed to be bump started when he first posted.
Look at all the things that have been touched since it was bought.
Take a poll. FI failure or inadverant self induced problem, or better yet car sat for X years, bump started, ran till the fuel filter couldn't do its job anymore.

Carlos

Not an FI Missionary

Posted by: ! Mar 23 2004, 10:58 AM

Removing the tank is not a difficult job and should be considered a maintenance item. There are critical fuel lines underneath that get ignored.

The tank has to be removed to install a sway bar as well...

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 23 2004, 11:03 AM

First, let me state that I am an "FI guy". I think you should fix the FI.

But, if you are going to carbs...

If you trust your mechanic, you should get your parts through him. Bringing in your own parts is a good way to piss a mechanic off, because part of how he pays his rent every month is by making a little money on the parts he installs. In general, simple hourly rate isn't enough to pay the bills. (I personally would think twice about that mechanic, but if you trust him then that's good enough.)

Weber 48s are way too big for a 2.0 street engine. The 44s are a pretty good choice, maybe a little on the large side. The 40s are also a good choice, but are probably a little on the small size for a 2.0 engine. The little Webers listed (34s?) are very small for a 1.7 motor, let alone a 2.0 one.

Solexes are, from my reading, so-so. The newer ones (now made by Kadron?) seem to have a reputation as being cheap, but cheap. (Notice "good" isn't in that sentance.)

The Dell'Orto carbs seem to be the carbs of choice. The problem is that they're not being made any more, and some of the parts are hard to come by. CB Performance lists most of the parts, but it sometimes takes a couple of months to get them in. Dell 40s would be a good choice. They evidently have much better progression between idle and full throttle than the other carbs, and don't suffer so much from the "light switch" effect where power is all-or-nothing.

There are lots of choices, here...

Next, we come to the "extra stuff" you will need.

Rich is dead-on about the fuel pump. The stock pump will not work with carbs. One of the people I know who has tried it blames that for the engine fire that damaged the car pretty thoroughly not long after the swap. A real fuel pressure regulator (not the cheap chrome thingie) is probably a good investment, as is a fuel pressure gauge for carbs.

You can use your current distributor, if it's in good shape. IMHO, the "009" distributor is crap and should be avoided. Some carbs will have the correct fittings to hook up the vacuum advance and/or retard on the stock distributor, which IMHO is a Good Thing. The big-$$ Mallory distributors have many fans as well, who insist that this distributor is far better than any other for our engines.

You will need manifolds. Bug manifolds will not fit our motors at all. Late Bus manifolds (the "Type IV engine" ones) can be drilled for the three-stud pattern of the 914 2.0 heads.

You will need a linkage. A Bug linkage will need a fair amount of creative tinkering to work. The rod will need to be shortened, and the bellcranks probably monkeyed with.

You will need extra parts to make the carbs work correctly with your engine. Most of them come with venturis that are suboptimal (in some cases very bad) for our engines. Most of them need re-jetting. And so on. So a collection of venturis, main jets, idle jets, air correction jets, emulsion tubes, and on and on are things that you will need. Plus some advice on where to start, plus tuning time.

Speaking of tuning, a real synchrometer is the only way to go. The "Uni-syn" floating-ball thingie is not generally considered the best way to synch the carbs.

Once you add up all the stuff above, you might see fixing the FI in a new light. ... Or maybe not.

Most of the "usual suspects" in terms of suppliers have been mentioned. I think Pelican may also sell Webers and associated parts, but I'm not sure frankly. (As I said, I'm an FI guy.) John C at aircooled.net will generally have good (not necessarily great, but good!) prices and excellent service. He seems to be one of the Good Guys. I think Pierce Manifolds still does sell Webers for the 914 as well.

That's all I can come up with off the top of my head.

Now, you need to figure out if it's worth it for you to take the car to someone and have them "just fix it", or if you want to do the work yourself. If someone else is doing the work, you should probably let them pick the parts if they have strong opinions... After all, you are trusting them to do the work, right? And let them make their profit off of the parts prices as well. If you DIY, then you can shop for deals to your heart's content. But it takes longer, of course, and it's more work.

Again, my opinion is that the stock FI should be fixed. But if you want to go to carbs, the above is the best advice I have.

--DD

Posted by: brians914 Mar 23 2004, 11:03 AM

Sounds like I better get it done before I am in Mr. Cactus's shoes.

Posted by: Mueller Mar 23 2004, 11:04 AM

at first glance into the engine compartment the FI and wiring can be intimidating, add in the cost of some of the FI parts and I can see why people go that route...hell, I started down this path myself once...the only reason I sold my carbs and taught myself more about FI was due to wanting to turbo or supercharge my car and I even tho carbs can work with either system, I've come to the conclusion that FI is better for my application...

as to those 1.8 dual carbs...my only concerns would be getting rebuild parts for them......

i can say carbs look 100% better on the engine than FI

Posted by: Scott Schroeder Mar 23 2004, 12:28 PM

My frustration comes from how the carb vs FI topic seems to always outweigh any other discussion point. there are folks on this list who own some extremely poor examples of our beloved cars - things I would classify as rusty pieces of junk that have no business being on the road. Yet we welcome them with open arms, tell them what a great car they have. Then there is other ugly head - if a car is on ebay and not owned by one of our members it is a piece of junk. If it is carbed, it has been butchered by a crappy mechanic and worth far less than an FI car.
Sorry for the rant - it's just getting old.

fire away....

Posted by: ! Mar 23 2004, 12:32 PM

That's what is nice about this forum....unlike a email subscription list. If the subject is one that makes you wanna blow chunks, you don't HAVE to read it or participate.....

Posted by: majkos Mar 23 2004, 01:52 PM

Scott, I'm glad you've vented,just not worth holding it in. You've something to say,and we listen(read) Truthfully,if it's any consolation,you've one of the Baddest,neatest carbed set-up!
I too,live in Colorado, and was very impress to hear how well your car can start up and go w/o having to warm up! I've F.I. and have to wait for 'her to warm up.AND I HAVE A HEATED GARAGE!
Let's get together and a few beers
and laugh at all stories on this unbeivable site!

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 23 2004, 01:56 PM

i hate carbs

but i think you're right. a good carb setup does not devalue a car, IMHO.
i'm not a CW.
if it works, it works.

i used to work with carbs and dual setups for years on my VW-Bugs.
(had probably 10 of them over the years).
everything from stock single carb to dual & quad with homemade linkage
and manifolds and kompressors all kinds of trick schtuff.

i knew how to work 'em and then i bought this VW-Bus that had a 2.0L
Type4 FI engine in it. 100 HP made the bus going like crazy.
ripped the engine out and threw it into my bug.
that WAS an eye-opener. i didn't know sh$t about FI at the time.
hooked it all up and it ran. no cold start problems anymore.
fired right up everytime. perfect idle. smooth running.

i haven't looked back ever since.
i love FI
Andy

Posted by: GWN7 Mar 23 2004, 03:52 PM

What most people have tryed to point out to Catcus is that he has a 1/2 working FI system now and it would be cheaper to get it fixed right than going to the carbs.

Only time I have seen people poop on carbs is when it's a single bug style or they are duels on a car ad that states it's all orginal.

BTW I have Dells on the 70 and can concur that they take tinkering. The flow meters are available on Ebay for $50 all the time and some parts have to come from Italy for them.

The 73 is FI and the 74 has a single carb setup waiting to go in it, but as it's a 750 Holly I don't think anyone but a CW will complain. The 71 will be FI, but the only reason for that is I have all the parts and can spend the $1,000 for converting on other things.

Posted by: mike_the_man Mar 23 2004, 04:06 PM

So Cactus, you out there? What do you think of all of this? Let us know how the carb swap goes, if you decide to go that route. Although I think there have been many reasons stated to stay with the current fuel injection. What do you think?

Posted by: krk Mar 23 2004, 04:16 PM

It's funny. Dunno if I'm a Carb guy or a FI guy.

When I got the 73, I was a carb guy -- no instinct for FI -- and it had problems. It was pretty frustrating, particularly without internet resources for debugging the thing. A simple vacuum leak could produce very odd results. I'd fix one and I'd have a different very odd problem as I moved from leak to leak. I eventually realised that the vacuum hoses were probably original and all leaked -- I replace them all in one operation. It was a totally different car, and it basically ran beautifully until I sold it. So perhaps it was an acquired taste, but I loved the FI on that 2.0. Quiet, and no funny gas smells.

Now I've got my /6 running (second week daily driver duties -- still no roof on! ), and have started getting used to carbs again. There are things I think are fun about them -- they make "go fast" sounds even when you're not going all that fast -- and they are an analog system, so the symptom is often closely related to the problem. (even being out of practice meant that I could diagnose and quickly fix a dirty idle jet) But they do give off more noise, and more gas smells, then the FI ever did on the /4.

So given my druthers, on a stock /4, I druther have FI. If I were hopping up a /4, you get to choose between a megasquirt-type system or carbs. 'Till Saturday, my druthers on the /6 were carbs -- but the Turbo came home -- so my druther for a /6 is a turbo!

As for our cactus (aside: we are cactus/succulent gardeners here at our house -- "cactus boy" is a better name than Mr. Succulent kidding of course) problem, I think lots of folks have given sound comments on this thread. The goal is a running car -- pick the one you are most confident at winning with and tally ho. (remember to save the old parts). Best of luck with either choice -- there will be folks to have answers here either way.

kim.

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 23 2004, 04:40 PM

Ok ok... I have to admit that I had a problem. Probley the main reason I wanted the carbs was so I could tell everyone I have porsche with dual weber carbs and when I pop the engine lid I wanted something to show off. But I just got back talking with my mechanic and he was working on my porsche he seemed very happy about the progress so it made me fill alittle happyer about fuel injection. He had lots of little gizzmoes hooked up to my car like remote starter some little fuel injecter pluse lights and he had put brand new connections on all the fuel injection wires. But he said he still can't get any pluse. So next he's going to clean the distributor and check the fuel injection trigger points and clean it all up. When I first went there I forgot to ask how much they charge an hour. I asked him today and they say for students its about $40 a hour. If I wanted to get my car fixed like today they it he said it would go up about to $70 but he's not constly working on it just when he has spare time. Here is a list of things I have done to the car. Before bringing to the shop

1-Took the fuel tank out changed all the gas lines there cause they were leaking bad
2-Changed all the fuel injecter lines cause a couple were linking
3-Put a new ignition switch in hoping with would fix my starter problem I now know its the wire,
4- I stuck a new fuel injecter in cause when I had the system running and found one was not shooting
5- I put new spark plugs and wires in.
6- I put new points and condensered and new distrubitor cap.
7- Put a new ignition coil
8- Changed the oil twice withen the same week.
9- Took all the old raggy carpet out found there was a hole under the seat cause of rust so now I need to weld a plate over that.

Here is what plan to do with the next month
1-Get the car running on fuel injection or carbs
2- fix the hole
3- get 2 new turn signal lenses
4- get new porsche back trunk lenses
5- buy a carpet kit
6- replace old beaten up seats with nice ones
7- buy dash cap or get a new dash
8- sand car down prime and paint black
9- drive car to school show my friends I have a porsche

So if I stay with fuel injection I will probley have lots of money left over to do all the things I want to do but I still think it would be nice to have something to show off in the engine.

Posted by: ! Mar 23 2004, 04:50 PM

OK....clarify please....in one area you say that the wrench can't get a pulse, then one of the injectors was replaced....

I assume that meant no pulse to the injectors? If so, why was one replaced?

Also has the INJECTION trigger points been looked at? They are under the points for spark plugs in the dizzy....

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 23 2004, 05:01 PM

I replaced one of the injecters before the fuel injecter system went out on me cause I switch it with another and it still did not work but the other still work in the old ones spot. And yes the mechanic is going to look at the trigger points. Im not sure what your talking when you say ""wrench can't get a pulse""

Posted by: ! Mar 23 2004, 05:13 PM

First paragraph.....you wrote,,,But he said he still can't get any pluse. ......

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 23 2004, 05:14 PM

wrench = your mechanic

Posted by: mike_the_man Mar 23 2004, 05:16 PM

Sounds like somebody has carb envy! Is that a big weber in your engine bay, or are you just happy to see me?

Posted by: ! Mar 23 2004, 05:24 PM

"DOH".....

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 23 2004, 05:30 PM

if that's the case, get your engine tin and intake runners and fan housing powdercoated in a "bright" color...
bright yellow would go nicely with a black car as would a bright red or bright blue.
even green will work.

get the "fake" braided lines and put them over your vacuum hoses.

get a chrome K&N air filter.

that should add some bling-bling to your engine comp.
Andy

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 23 2004, 05:38 PM

You can also get rid of the air cleaner and run a K&N cone filter so that looks cool. Dual carbs look ok but FI all painted up looks nice and rice.

Geoff


Attached image(s)

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 23 2004, 05:39 PM

I like the sound of the chrome airfilter but can't seem to find any pictures also can you discribe what powdercoated is. Also would it be easy to paint.

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 23 2004, 05:57 PM

Korijo just did some powdercoating at home.
Basically, you spray the powder paint on and then heat it until it melts and then drys.

no one chromes the air cleaners due to the cost. You could paint or powdercoat it chromesilver or red if you want.

Geoff
I posted the engine bay pic just to show you what it can look like if you clean it up.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 23 2004, 07:05 PM

someone had a pic of a nice engine with yellow powdercoated tin ...
it was posted here, dunno which thread.

http://www.9xauto.com/, altough i think their HP gain claims are wishful thinking (or better, wishful marketing),
it does look better than the stock air-box ...


Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 23 2004, 07:08 PM

found it!

check out this thread for a lot of pictures of nice looking powdercoated engine tin and intake runners etc.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=7227&hl=yellow+engine+tin

Andy

Posted by: krk Mar 23 2004, 07:17 PM

Andy,

That is an evil thread. If you have any thoughts about coloring or power coating, this thread will suck you over to the dark side in a hurry!

But definitely there is beautiful work on that thread!

kim.

Posted by: anthony Mar 23 2004, 07:28 PM

Do those exposed K&N cone filters run when it's raining?

Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 23 2004, 07:46 PM

after seeing that cone filter on the l-jet that andy posted...

kevin

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 23 2004, 08:24 PM

as long as you have the rain-tray.
if not, you need to put a rain-block-off plate over it ...

Andy

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 23 2004, 08:29 PM

I have run a K&N cone filter on my 2.0l just mounted to the TB. Looked cool

Geoff

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 24 2004, 08:19 AM

Can I take out all the engine tin out and paint it with out dropping the motor. Is that possible also what about the fan housing hows that come off.

Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 24 2004, 08:36 AM

probably and probably. getting it all back in is another story. much faster to drop the engine and MUCH easier. take the engine out after you get it running!!!!!!!!!!!! what did the mechanic tell you? you need to approach this car methodicly. worry about a showy car after you have a running car!!!!!! i fear you will get it in pieces, run out of patience(we're starting to) and money. you going to send me the postage for that coil?

kevin

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 24 2004, 01:59 PM

with motor OUT of the car, it'll take you a saturday. (including the dropping of the engine).

with motor IN the car, it'll take you a week before you give up and drop the motor anyways.

Andy

Posted by: jkeyzer Mar 24 2004, 02:51 PM

Around December you could put christmas lights on it and a little star...

Posted by: majkos Mar 24 2004, 02:58 PM

Cute!

Posted by: sunfloweryellow914 Mar 24 2004, 04:22 PM

Mr, Cactus

I feel for you.
My advice is to get your dad to help you put any kind of carb system in there and get the car working. Forget about everything else like rust. You'll have alot of fun with it no matter how it drives. Just get it driving. Go out with it, take the top down and have a ball. You can worry about all this fancy stuff later. Just get the thing where it runs, and enjoy.

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 24 2004, 04:27 PM

If you have been following his posts all along you will not the car first had to be push started because of a starter issue. I think it ran. I still runs but only if he pours some gas down the TB. This means its should just be a fuel pump problem, maybe just a fuse or relay. Ripping out the FI is stupid and paying to install carbs for $500 to 800 is even dumber.
He still hasn't told us what the problems are other than it don't run. We ask questions to help troubleshoot it and get no response. WTF! oh,well as he is a typical 16 year old.

Geoff

Posted by: sunfloweryellow914 Mar 24 2004, 06:18 PM

Geoff,

Your'e right, I'm wrong.

My note was stimulated by me remembering my first 914, a 70 1.7 rust bucket which had a single home made carb set up. It ran lousy, and got smashed inumerable times before I finally gave it away. It was held together with gorilla hair. Man, did I have fun in that car.

Posted by: ! Mar 24 2004, 07:10 PM

Be advised...cactus guy lives in the ....well podunks of Utah... and not a lot of choices for foreign car service.

Sounds like the guy he is going to, is pretty much it where he lives. Otherwise it's trailer it somewhere else....

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 24 2004, 07:35 PM

here is where he lives


Attached image(s)

Posted by: tat2dphreak Mar 24 2004, 08:23 PM

all you had to say was UTAH... the map is overkill

j/k

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 25 2004, 12:58 AM

I talk to my mechanic today and yes he is the only one who would take my car in sence he is a VW engine mechanic there was some other place but they were way over priced. He took the dizzy out and cleaned it all up plus he set the points on the fl trigger. Im now getting pluse again from the injecters so I guess I moved the dizzy to much when I was trying to get it to run and messed everything up. But now my fuel pump is just having problems it was working great when I brought it into the shop. He has a meter hooked up to the car and its not showing any pressure. Im thinking its probley not going to show any pressure in less the car is running. It squirts gas out of the fuel lines when you turn the key. But I hope to have the car out of the shop running and on the street withen the next couple weeks. I still need to get the title plus fix the hole under the seat and replace the turn signal lenses cause they are broken. Everything else works great like all the lights pop up and break lights work. I have access to a welder at my school Im wondering what type of metal I want to replace it with and should I weld it on from under the car or weld it inside the car. Thanks for all the support so far and probaly saving me a few hundred dollars.

Posted by: GWN7 Mar 25 2004, 01:10 AM

If the pump was working and now not, check the fuse.

You can lay a piece of metal over the hole and weld it either from the inside or the outside, or trim the hole of bad metal and cut a patch the size of new hole and butt weld it in place. The second way you can grind the welds down and have a smooth patch.

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 25 2004, 01:17 AM

When I turned the key the pump turns on but I can't get any pressure just alittle. I though its suppose to run around 30 psi. I havn't tried it when the cars running though so that probley my problem.

Posted by: JOHNMAN Mar 25 2004, 01:53 AM

With the engine not running, and the fuel pump running, you should get 30psi. This is ONE of the problems you have... It is a good start. If the pump actually runs, then I would suspect dirt or other crap in the fuel tank/fuel lines.

Check and replace the fuel filter.
Check the pressure regulator (it should be adjustable).

The fuel pressure gauge should be attached to the cold start valve rubber line and all other lines connected. The pressure regulator should be located on the driver side near the fuel rail. Turning the adjuster clockwise (in) increases the pressure. Turning the adjuster counter clockwise (out) decreases the pressure. There should be a jam nut on the adjusting bolt. Once set, tighten the jam nut (this rarely needs adjustment).

Good luck. I am glad to see you aren't going to the dark side with those evil carbs....

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 25 2004, 05:49 AM

Posted by: Gint Mar 25 2004, 08:13 AM

Don't we have any members in Utah?

weird_looking_cactus, I'll be driving right through St. george on my way out and back from D&G swap meet. I can stop by on my back on Sunday, 4/4 if you haven't solved your problems by then. PM or email if you're interested.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 25 2004, 08:20 AM

'most all of them seem to be in the SLC area - some of our AZ members might actually be closer...

i did all my work, on my own, in similarly desolate surroundings - there is no one qualified to work on CIS-KE within 100 miles of Minden, NV... with good shop manuals, access to the web, and UPS, it can be done...

Posted by: Gint Mar 25 2004, 08:27 AM

They are all a lot closer than I am. LOL

Sometimes you can just use an experienced hand to help out a little and explain some things while you're both there looking and pointing. If he wants me to, I'll stop by on my way back.

Bet you weren't 16 at the time...

Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 25 2004, 08:34 AM

and so hot to drive your porsche you can hardly stand it.

Posted by: Gint Mar 25 2004, 08:39 AM

Hormones man!!!

Posted by: ! Mar 25 2004, 09:40 AM

Speaking of carbs....are ALL weber jets and venturis the same? In other words...will 40 two barrel jets fit 44s and/or 40 triple webers?

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 25 2004, 11:25 AM

The FI system will run the fuel pump for ~1.5 seconds when the key goes from "off" to "on". That will raise the fuel pressure to some extent, but often not all the way to 30 PSI. The pump will also run while the starter is cranking, and while the car is running at more than ~200 RPM.

If the pressure does not get to 29 PSI with the engine running, or with the starter cranking, or with the fuel pump relay jumpered to force the pump to run, then you have fuel delivery problems. If it does get to 29 PSI under those circumstances, that isn't your problem.

--DD

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 25 2004, 04:18 PM

Great news Im bringing my car home today. He got it running and said it runs great. I just need a new fuel pump. He had it running on some vacuum thing to pump the gas. It could possibley be the fuel filter so Im going to change that first. If its the fuel pump it shouldn't be hard to replace sence I have tooken mine out many times just its going to cost me. It pumps gas just not hard.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Mar 25 2004, 04:27 PM

GREAT NEWS DUDE! CONGRATS!!!

we're happy for you!

I hope it's just the filter! those pumps are $$$$ Porsche (or bosch, whoever makes the actual pump) is VERY proud of them! ;D

Posted by: GWN7 Mar 25 2004, 06:24 PM

WoooHooo

Let us know what the final total is and how the first ride feels.

Posted by: Gint Mar 25 2004, 06:27 PM

Congratulations! I'll stop by St. George on my way back from L.A. anyway. I'll send some details in a reply to your PM.

And let me know if you don't find a pump before 4/1. I may be able to pick one up for you at D&G Swap for sub $50.

What's your real name cactus?

Posted by: echocanyons Mar 25 2004, 06:33 PM

How do you test one? I have one that I will dontate if I can figure out if its still good

Posted by: anthony Mar 25 2004, 07:00 PM

Put 12 volts to it and see if it spins. Don't do it for more than a few seconds so you don't burn it up. That however doesn't guarantee that it won't leak. Some people though have successfully taken them apart and replaced the o-ring.

There's also the option of replacing it with a generic 2 port FI pump that you can get a Summit for relatively cheap.

Posted by: tod914 Mar 25 2004, 08:09 PM

Might be a good idea to flush the system if the filter had crap in it. They don't trap everything. Did you clean your tank and replace all the lines???? Make sure all that is done or you'll be back to square one before long. Good luck glad you got it going

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 25 2004, 09:26 PM

I thought I was going to bring my car home today so I was going to mess with the fuel pump but I have to wait tell tomarrow cause my dad couldn't get work off to come tow it. I wen't back over there to let it run ,my mechanic said that its squirts out air instead of gas when there is plenty of gas in the tank cause he even added his own. He also said something about the pump seighting up when the car was on. I have already replace all the fuel lines when I first got the car. I also let all the gas drain out of the tank, I didn't see anything but pure gas coming out. So Im going tp replace the fuel filter and see if that does anything if not then I know its my pump. Also my real name is Kristopher Larson

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 26 2004, 07:08 PM

This is the happest day of my life I got my 914 home . Haha my problem with my fuel pump was my fuel tank rubber supports. I forgot to put them back in so the fuel tank was smashing one of the fuel lines which was blocking it off. I also change the fuel filter for the heck of it and found a twig inside of it. But now my car starts on the first crank and goes straight to a nice smooth idle. I took it for a test drive. But I only wen't up to 20 mhp in first gear then went to 3rd sence my 2nd gear is broken but I had no power at all in 3rd gear. If gint will be able to make it down then I will let him take it for a test run so he can decied what else is wrong with it. But once again thanks for all the support. My bill was only $130.00 instead of $600. Im just hoping I don't need a new clutch or anything now.

Posted by: jkeyzer Mar 26 2004, 07:15 PM

You da man!!! Congrats!!

Posted by: GWN7 Mar 26 2004, 07:34 PM

Congrats

If the clutch works in first, it probably is ok. No shuddering or wierd noises?

If it's just the second gear you might have to spend what you just saved by not going to the carbs in parts. I remember a thread about the price of those (gears & syncros) going up lots in the last little while.

The reason it dies when you try to take off in third is because it geared that way. Normal opperations. You can't jump over a gear without the car lagging. You can start off in second, but you don't have that option (yet).

Posted by: tat2dphreak Mar 26 2004, 07:49 PM

great news man! Glad to hear it! ask your mechanic man to help with the tranny... to me, Tranny's are 10X more complicated than engines and have 10x more parts!! ask me how I know

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 26 2004, 07:58 PM

Well great haha my my 914 is not starting again. <_< I had it running perfect for about 45 mins in my drive way I wen't out shut it off and put the fuel tank back in its spot. Then boom the car won't start again its like the fuel injecters arn't getting any pluse again. So I pulled the tank out again but still no go. The mechanic said that the altitude sensor is very touch but I didn't even mess with that. So Im back on step one. Im going to mess around with it tomarrow.

Posted by: GWN7 Mar 26 2004, 08:06 PM

You didn't find this car parked over a old indian burial ground?

Posted by: cgnj Mar 26 2004, 08:43 PM

Bumped that huge clod of rust into the sock.

Carlos

Posted by: trojanhorsepower Mar 26 2004, 09:42 PM

Kristopher,
You will work this out, but please don't put BOOM in any more of your posts; especially fuel oriented ones. Man I almost had a heart attack.
These little cars are as combustible as they are rustible.

-Pete

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 26 2004, 11:31 PM

This is way to weird I wen't to try and start my car. Just like that it starts up but BANG its back fires on me and scares me to death. I so I guess one pistion go filled up to gas I guess Im just going to have to work with a little but Im going to hurry and take it for a test run before my dad gets back

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 26 2004, 11:37 PM

OMG I just had the funnest time in my life just driving up the street in first gear with out any problems. It seems like my reverse has more power then my first gear. But I love my porsche so much now I can drive it. Trust come down to St. George its worth the drive. Make sure to have your top off at night and drive around. Cause its probley about 70 degrees outside which is warm and its night time its a blast I can't weight tell I can drive it to school. Also I tryed my heater and it worked haha my first car with a working heater.

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 26 2004, 11:41 PM

Altitude sensor??? Huh? The MPS has that built in to it so there isn't one unless its something I have never heard of.
In the pic its the funny round thing with the 57 on it.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: weird_looking_cactus Mar 26 2004, 11:46 PM

Ya its the MPS that he was talking about. Is there anyway to adjust it or anthing.

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 27 2004, 12:16 AM

You need special tools to adjust it right..... An inductance meter for one.

Posted by: Gint Mar 27 2004, 01:15 AM

Kristopher, Don't go messin around with your MPS. Listen to Geoff (bleyseng), he knows what he's talking about.

Two things dude:

Read my reply to your latest post.

Learn to use the search feature of this board. There is a TON of good information that has already been covered. Sometimes over and over again. Many of the questions you have asked have been answered before. You could learn a LOT about your 914 by just spending some quality time with the search function.

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 27 2004, 06:24 AM

this place has a ton of info

Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 27 2004, 08:01 AM

excellent. you saved much dough. if you are fairly sure it's the mps, buy a recalibrated one from geoff. his prices are right. you'll be stylin' in the school parking lot before you know it. don't let the really hot girl drive your car when she/they ask (and they will). i'll read the other post now.

kevin