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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ H4 conversion - good deal?
Posted by: Cevan Feb 9 2010, 01:28 PM
Bus Depot has the H4 bulbs and housings for about $53 total. These are the E-code housing which are approved for motorcycles. Any reason these won't work fine on our cars, apart from the "approved for motorcycle use" issue?
Posted by: underthetire Feb 9 2010, 01:32 PM
Bus Depot has the H4 bulbs and housings for about $53 total. These are the E-code housing which are approved for motorcycles. Any reason these won't work fine on our cars, apart from the "approved for motorcycle use" issue?
Got mine on EBAY for about 25, DOT approved.
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 9 2010, 01:33 PM
Bus Depot has the H4 bulbs and housings for about $53 total. These are the E-code housing which are approved for motorcycles. Any reason these won't work fine on our cars, apart from the "approved for motorcycle use" issue?
depends on the brand. Most are made now in India and can be had for about 30 a set including bulbs.
Posted by: Shade Tree Feb 9 2010, 02:11 PM
A local VW shop sells the Empi's for $14.99 with bulbs. They're pretty nice.
Posted by: RiqueMar Feb 9 2010, 02:36 PM
A local VW shop sells the Empi's for $14.99 with bulbs. They're pretty nice.
I have the Empi's for the same price as well. Great buy.
Posted by: Cevan Feb 9 2010, 03:56 PM
These are Bosch housings (made in Sweden) and Flosser bulbs (made in Germany).
Posted by: underthetire Feb 9 2010, 04:06 PM
Then I would go for it. The cheaper ones really are not fantastic IMO. My pilot driving lights put out much more than my H4's do. Best 30 bucks i spent on those.
Posted by: flat4tom Feb 9 2010, 04:15 PM
Then I would go for it. The cheaper ones really are not fantastic IMO. My pilot driving lights put out much more than my H4's do. Best 30 bucks i spent on those.
$30.00 for Pilot driving lights...? Do they fit in the fog light position in the bumper?
I was considering replacing my cracked stock fog lights with a set from Camp914 but they are 70.00, not 30.00.
Inquiring minds would like to know...
Thx
Tom
Posted by: 914Sixer Feb 9 2010, 04:38 PM
One thing to consider using H4 is the fact that they hang upside down when stored. The bulb is not sealed and the rubber seal that goes around the bulb has been know to leak. The other factor is that the seal fries under the metal of the headlight cover. I prefer Halogen Sealbeam because they work just as good and are available most places. With higher than stock watt bulbs (100W) you may or may not need a relay to keep wiring temp down.
Posted by: underthetire Feb 9 2010, 04:51 PM
Then I would go for it. The cheaper ones really are not fantastic IMO. My pilot driving lights put out much more than my H4's do. Best 30 bucks i spent on those.
$30.00 for Pilot driving lights...? Do they fit in the fog light position in the bumper?
I was considering replacing my cracked stock fog lights with a set from Camp914 but they are 70.00, not 30.00.
Inquiring minds would like to know...
Thx
Tom
Yes
you can PM me for where to buy. I don't like ousting member vendors here. Camp 914 is a great place to have available to us.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Cano Feb 9 2010, 07:13 PM
IIRC, the Camp kit also includes custom brackets that fit the pilot lights better. You can use the stock brackets, but the pilots will look a little low and too recessed.
Posted by: underthetire Feb 9 2010, 07:36 PM
Last time I looked they didn't come with the custom brakets, could be wrong. Craig?? If they do, it would be worth the extra for those that don't have sheetmetal equipment.
Posted by: eg914 Feb 10 2010, 12:26 AM
I have had a set of Hella H4 headlights in my daily driver for several years now. I have never had a problem with water getting into them, and am not afraid to drive in the rain. They put out a great light pattern, very big improvement over DOT sealed beam type lights.
Posted by: busdepot Feb 10 2010, 09:02 AM
I thought I'd jump in here and clear up a couple of misconceptions/misinformation...
No H4 headlight is DOT approved for car use in the United States. The closest you can get is DOT approval for motorcycle use, and even that is rare. The U.S. DOT in its infinite wisdom decided not to approve H4's for cars but decided they were fine on motorcycles, meaning that the identical headlight can be DOT approved on a motorcycle and not on a car.
An exception is certain H4 lookalikes, such as the Hella Vision Plus. These actually use lower output HB2 bulbs, and are widely considered to be inferior to actual H4's despite their relatively high price. However, they are still markedly better than sealed-beams, and if you want 100% DOT approval they are your best/only bet.
ECE is the European equivalent of DOT approval, and ECE certified headlights (widely referred to as E-code) meet those stringent standards and are street-legal in most of Europe. (Also in Canada, which recognizes ECE standards.)
Most low end H4's are neither E-code nor DOT motorcycle approved, and as a result the performance varies tremendously. Higher end models are often E-code but typically not DOT approved for motorcycles (if only because the manufacturer didn't bother to get approval). The Bosch's are an exception that meets both standards, because Bosch has a U.S. customer (Harley-Davidson) who required DOT certification. (In fact that is the only reason why this deal on the Bosch's exists to begin with - Harley sales slumped, leaving Bosch with an excess of the DOT approved H4's, which we bought for way below cost.)
There can be HUGE quality differences between H4 headlights. At the low-end of the market are the $25 Ebay specials - Chinese or Indian made generics that are rarely E-code or DOT motorcycle approved (or if labeled as such may be counterfeit). Even these will tend to be better than the stock sealed-beams (which isn't saying much), but compared to better H4's you do get what you pay for. The fluting is of poor quality and design, so you may blind other drivers. (In some cases, they are made for Indian or British market right-hand-drive vehicles, so the fluting is completely backwards and you are illuminating pedestrians more than the road.) Also the quality control is often poor, resulting in leakage, loose fit, etc.
At the high end of the market are the well-regarded lighting specialists, notably Hella, Bosch, and Valeo (aka Cibie), who are actually OEM suppliers to the car companies. These are carefully engineered headlamps with excellent quality control, and are basically the standard by which the others are judged. Opinions may differ on which of these is best but it's hard to go wrong with any of them.
In between you have Chinese and Indian H4's, all from a few factories but marketed under a variety of brand names, that run the gamut. Those factories will build to spec, so one may be utter garbage while another from the same factory may be ECE certified and actually pretty decent (even if not quite up to German standards). The problem is knowing which you're getting. Price can be an indicator (if you're paying $25 or $30 for a pair of headlights you shouldn't expect much), but I have also seen some companies rebrand the same $30 cheapos and sell them for $50 or $60 in a nicer box.
You can find a very good write-up http://www.ratwell.com/technical/BoschH4.html that reviews the Bosch's in particular, but also has a lot of useful info about H4's.
- Ron Salmon
The Bus Depot
www.busdepot.com
Posted by: type47fan Feb 10 2010, 09:17 AM
Great information, Ron. Thanks!
My current Garage Queen . . . .
Attached image(s)
Posted by: kconway Feb 10 2010, 09:35 AM
Looking at the Bus Depot page, there are 2 or 3 dozen parts, which fits the 914 application? Type 2 (lots of years), Ghia, Rabbits, SB, Thing, Type 1, Type 3 and vanagon.
Posted by: mepstein Feb 10 2010, 10:18 AM
I thought I'd jump in here and clear up a couple of misconceptions/misinformation...
No H4 headlight is DOT approved for car use in the United States. The closest you can get is DOT approval for motorcycle use, and even that is rare. The U.S. DOT in its infinite wisdom decided not to approve H4's for cars but decided they were fine on motorcycles, meaning that the identical headlight can be DOT approved on a motorcycle and not on a car.
An exception is certain H4 lookalikes, such as the Hella Vision Plus. These actually use lower output HB2 bulbs, and are widely considered to be inferior to actual H4's despite their relatively high price. However, they are still markedly better than sealed-beams, and if you want 100% DOT approval they are your best/only bet.
ECE is the European equivalent of DOT approval, and ECE certified headlights (widely referred to as E-code) meet those stringent standards and are street-legal in most of Europe. (Also in Canada, which recognizes ECE standards.)
Most low end H4's are neither E-code nor DOT motorcycle approved, and as a result the performance varies tremendously. Higher end models are often E-code but typically not DOT approved for motorcycles (if only because the manufacturer didn't bother to get approval). The Bosch's are an exception that meets both standards, because Bosch has a U.S. customer (Harley-Davidson) who required DOT certification. (In fact that is the only reason why this deal on the Bosch's exists to begin with - Harley sales slumped, leaving Bosch with an excess of the DOT approved H4's, which we bought for way below cost.)
There can be HUGE quality differences between H4 headlights. At the low-end of the market are the $25 Ebay specials - Chinese or Indian made generics that are rarely E-code or DOT motorcycle approved (or if labeled as such may be counterfeit). Even these will tend to be better than the stock sealed-beams (which isn't saying much), but compared to better H4's you do get what you pay for. The fluting is of poor quality and design, so you may blind other drivers. (In some cases, they are made for Indian or British market right-hand-drive vehicles, so the fluting is completely backwards and you are illuminating pedestrians more than the road.) Also the quality control is often poor, resulting in leakage, loose fit, etc.
At the high end of the market are the well-regarded lighting specialists, notably Hella, Bosch, and Valeo (aka Cibie), who are actually OEM suppliers to the car companies. These are carefully engineered headlamps with excellent quality control, and are basically the standard by which the others are judged. Opinions may differ on which of these is best but it's hard to go wrong with any of them.
In between you have Chinese and Indian H4's, all from a few factories but marketed under a variety of brand names, that run the gamut. Those factories will build to spec, so one may be utter garbage while another from the same factory may be ECE certified and actually pretty decent (even if not quite up to German standards). The problem is knowing which you're getting. Price can be an indicator (if you're paying $25 or $30 for a pair of headlights you shouldn't expect much), but I have also seen some companies rebrand the same $30 cheapos and sell them for $50 or $60 in a nicer box.
You can find a very good write-up http://www.ratwell.com/technical/BoschH4.html that reviews the Bosch's in particular, but also has a lot of useful info about H4's.
- Ron Salmon
The Bus Depot
www.busdepot.com
Great explaination. I just ordered a set from you. Mark
Posted by: StratPlayer Feb 10 2010, 10:36 AM
Great read,,,,BTW BusDepot 
Posted by: kwales Feb 10 2010, 01:09 PM
Hey Ron,
Glad you could make it.
Great parts, great service.
I still have the Vanagon with a bunch of your parts, and send people your way now and again. That was quite the Vanagon rubber hose kit. Still can't beleive how many different hoses are in that thing.
Ken
Posted by: charliew Feb 10 2010, 01:39 PM
I'll try the bosch h4 also thanks for explaining. Opps forgot to add the bulbs also. Great prices. Also great explanation on the site.
Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 10 2010, 08:10 PM
I bought the kit from BusDepot and have always been happy with them.
I bought the Pilot light setup from Craig as well and was thrilled with it (until my car crashed). I'll be buying another set for the new car.
Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 10 2010, 08:11 PM
Looking at the Bus Depot page, there are 2 or 3 dozen parts, which fits the 914 application? Type 2 (lots of years), Ghia, Rabbits, SB, Thing, Type 1, Type 3 and vanagon.
All of the 7" round H4 lights are the same
Posted by: kconway Apr 10 2010, 04:22 PM
I picked up a pair of these H4's from Bus Depot and I'm having trouble installing them. The housings have small standoffs that index with the headlight bucket/frame. One of the Bosch housings indexes correctly, the other will only line up when clocked 90 degrees from where the Bosch housing says "TOP".
What am I missing here?
Standoffs on Bosch housing
Headlight bucket/frame slots or notches for standoffs
Posted by: kconway Apr 10 2010, 08:10 PM
Hold the phone! There DOES NOT appear to be a problem with this kit. I believe I had one of the headlight buckets assembled incorrectly. 
Let me just mention one other thing about this. I sent Ron from Bus Depot a PM about the problem I was having and he responded within minutes and helped me through this issue. I must say, that is real customer service. 
Thanks again Ron! 
Kev
Posted by: jim_hoyland Apr 10 2010, 08:35 PM
Bus Depot is a good parts source, bought lots of goodies from them. Nice explanation on the H4's, the more we know the better...
Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 10 2010, 08:37 PM
Ahhh Kev... I'll tell ya what the problem is; They look too damn nice to install headlights and covers on! 
Mine:
Posted by: sww914 Apr 10 2010, 08:41 PM
I put Hella H-4's with 60/100w bulbs in my street car recently. Money well spent. They're illegal with the 60/100 bulbs but nobody has flashed their brights at me so they're not too bright. I was worried about blinding everyone but it seems to be OK.
Posted by: jaxdream Apr 11 2010, 07:35 AM
There was a local tv news article ( Nashville , TN ) concerning the use of "blue " headlights and it seems that the police ( local / state ) are going to be cracking down on them , not sure how this would affect the H4's , but it seems that the blues are brighter than standards , just a cautious heads up , as other states may be on the lookout. 
My $.02......
Jack / Jaxdream
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