Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: siverson Mar 26 2004, 09:01 PM

This is way off-topic, but this seems to be the right group of guys to bounce a crazy idea off of. I've thought about doing this for quite a while now, and I've pretty much wrapped up my 914 project, think I've sold my Audi, and nothing out there is exactly what I want.

Basically I'm thinking about "re-bodying" a 964 as a Type 2 VW Bus. Whew, there, I said it. Now, let me explain some of the details...

Project goals:

- Be totally done in less than a year (914 3.6 took me about 5 years, and I'll never do anything like that again.).

- Instead of modifying a Bus to try and get it to be reliable/perform well (-really- well), start with a whole (possibly salvaged but running) 1993-1994 964, and basically build a tube frame, cut things away, and stretch/distort a VW Bus body around it.

- when done, it would look 99% like a VW Bus. Minor dimension changes, wider wheels, but all bus.

- seat 6 nicely (3 bus bench seats)

- Tiptronic transmission, stock 3.6

- all 964 running gear and suspension. Like I said, basically build a tube frame 964 that will accommodate a Type 2 body.

- manual windows (from bus)

- PS, PB, air conditioning, heater (all from 964)

- as quiet as a bus+964 can be. Add sound deadening, but stock bus wind noise is acceptable

- end up around 3,000 lbs total

- <$50k total cost

- great (classic) styling (to me), great performance

Without even looking, this is $18k:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2467815606&category=10156

A rusty bus 23-window shell will be $7k.

So $25k left to put it all together (maybe less?).

Steering linkage I imagine would be tricky... Mount a fuel cell somewhere, keep all 964 critical suspension geometry intact (and possibly even strengthen via the cage).

What are other good options for a $50k "biggish" fun car these days?

- Audi S4 avant - really nice, this is what I leaning towards right now, but it's $54k new (ouch), and will depreciate like crazy (yes, I know that a $50k VW Bus monster project won't hold its value either, but if it turns out nicely, I can't really imagine ever selling it (like I'll never sell my 914)).

- VW Toureg, Cayenne, any full size SUV - too big for me

- Subaru WRX Wagon, Subaru Forester XT

Boring...

But, my 964 Bus would look like this:




Info:




Basic dimensions comparison:

Type 2 VW Bus (1949-1967) Type 964 Porsche 911 (1989-1994) Difference

Overall length 168.9 167.3 1.6
Overall width 68.9 65.0 3.9
Overall height 76.4 52.0 24.4

Front track 53.9 54.3 -0.4
Rear track 53.5 54.1 -0.6
Wheelbase 94.5 89.4 5.1

Ground clearance 9.4 4.7 4.7

Weight 2,326.0 3,200.0 -874.0

Possible? Impossible? A huge waste of money? The dumbest idea you've heard in a long time? Vrooom?

-Steve

Posted by: ! Mar 26 2004, 09:03 PM

Just crazy enuff to work.....

Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 26 2004, 09:04 PM

fabcar dude....did that. hot vw's issue a couple of months ago

Posted by: jonwatts Mar 26 2004, 09:04 PM

(don't) DO IT!!!







(anything to make my project look sane by comparison)

Posted by: URY914 Mar 26 2004, 09:05 PM

Think about the steering rack and the location of the steering wheel and seat. That will be a big hurdle to do right.

This has been done by Charlie Slater here in Florida. Here is the article.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: URY914 Mar 26 2004, 09:07 PM

page 2


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: siverson Mar 26 2004, 09:07 PM

The fabcar bus was a heavily modified Type 2 and cost big bucks (I've heard about $130k). I'm thinking it could be done for much less, and end up with a better performing vehicle, by starting with a 964 and not having to re-engineer the hard stuff. Getting a 964 to fit in and under and bus seems to me like it would be a lot harder than getting a bus to fit around a 964...

Although you would end up with a less accurate looking bus, but I'm not going for originality...

-Steve

Posted by: URY914 Mar 26 2004, 09:08 PM

wanta see the rest?

Posted by: ThinAir914 Mar 26 2004, 09:13 PM

I'm a bit of a purist about Buses. It would be a neat project for a Bay-Window bus (1968-1979), but I'd hate to see any split have this done to it - especially a 23 Window. These are getting to be as rare as hen's-teeth.

Posted by: vortrex Mar 26 2004, 09:20 PM

I vote don't do it.

Posted by: URY914 Mar 26 2004, 09:35 PM

Don't cut up a T-II. Take a '78 or later and put a 3.6 in it and do wheelstands.
Now those are sleepers.

Paul

Posted by: Steve Mar 26 2004, 10:09 PM

If you go to the Pomona swap meet, German Auto Fest, Dunkle bros. ect. you will see a bunch of these already done with 3.2 motors.
They are all for sale and the owners want roughly $25k for them.
The 3.2 is the easiest because it doesn't need an external cooler.
Buy a KEP adapter, bolt it in and do wheelie stands.
At Dunkles last get together the seller had in big red letters on the steering wheel do not drive faster than 90mph.
I think its because it was a swing axle and there pretty tipsie!!

Steve

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 26 2004, 10:19 PM

Nah, at above 90mph the front end gets real light. I had a 67 23window w/ sunroof that I put a 1776cc into. The thing would fly especially above 90mph.
Sold it to a guy who read ended a truck

Geoff

Posted by: Steve Mar 26 2004, 10:29 PM

Too funny.
I guess the swing axle would only matter around corners not going straight.
Well that's a good excuse to put on weight if your VW bus driver.
It will help keep the front end down above 90mph.

Posted by: markb Mar 26 2004, 10:33 PM

Absolutely!! I want more!!


I have 5K in a 73 Bus with a 2.4. Looks trashed, but gets up and goes!

I have a friend up here who has a VW wrecking yard, and a bunch of Buses sitting here rusting away. Come up and talk him out of one. He even has some strange ones, like factory sliding doors on both side, etc.

Posted by: URY914 Mar 26 2004, 10:35 PM

page 3


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: URY914 Mar 26 2004, 10:36 PM

page 4


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: URY914 Mar 26 2004, 10:38 PM

here a fav of mine..


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: URY914 Mar 26 2004, 10:40 PM

another


Attached image(s)

Posted by: vortrex Mar 26 2004, 10:48 PM

that crew cab is beautiful. what motor is in it?

Posted by: URY914 Mar 26 2004, 10:53 PM

sorry, don't know the motor size.

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 26 2004, 11:33 PM

hey I saw that crew cab when I went to Parts Obsolete! Don't remember what motor is in it.
John Walker in Seattle has a old bus with a 911 motor in it too. Its pretty cool.

Geoff

Posted by: morphenspectra Mar 27 2004, 09:38 AM

i was a volks man b4 the 914 habit grew on me.but if you feel the need to do it and got the $$$$ for it i say go for it.

Posted by: cha914 Mar 27 2004, 11:39 AM

I think it sounds like a very cool project, and if you can fabricate almost everything yourself, then you might meet your 50K goal...other wise you had better double that number.

Other that that, go for it...I have a 73 bay that I have big plans for myself...just need the funds to make it happen.

good luck,

Tony

Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 27 2004, 12:26 PM

NOOOOOooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

Don't hack up a nice bus...pleeeeease!!!

A 911 engine OK, but it's a bus not a sportscar. It will always handle like a toaster.

What your talking about is a 5 year project, unless cash is no object and you can pay someone to do it.

Just build it nice, easy on the mods and drive.

Posted by: ThinAir914 Mar 27 2004, 03:55 PM

Amen, Mark!!

Posted by: Mike9142.0 Mar 27 2004, 04:17 PM

Posted by: 9146986 Mar 27 2004, 07:25 PM

If it took you five years to do a 914, which is reasonably straighforward, that is no new ground to cover, it will take you ten to do the project you describe.

The 964 platform is very sophisticated, electronically speaking, and you'll spend two years just figuring out the electronics of such a major project.

Have you ever seen an early bus that's been smacked very hard??? We're talking dead here, like really dead. Like hit today, and dead last week dead. Those things are tin cans with metal edges all over the place, there is nothing to protect you (your feet, your legs, your head) in a collision.

Unless you've got a death wish, or nothing better to do with your money, why don't you just get a good van and the 964?

You asked for people to talk you out of doing this. Interesting concept, and the car in the VW mag is cool and everything, but what a waste of time and money. I wouldn't put someone I didn't like in that thing, let alone my precious children. You can buy other vehicles, but ever know anyone that's lost a kid???

Just my .02

PK

Posted by: LS6/914 Mar 27 2004, 07:46 PM

Very interesting! Up in my area there is a shop that swaps the Subaru SVX motor into the Vanagon Synchro. It flies! Owner says he has to stop to return doors to young Honda owners.