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Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 09:46 PM

so i finally got the car running but i have to have the ignition wires different than i was told to have them.In stead of the #1 wire being over the tdc mark in the distributor the #1 wire is 90 degrees before that. will this be a problem?? when i do try to start the car up with the wires in the right order i hear a huge pop sound and it never starts up. thats why i just have them all shifted 90 degrees. will my car still be fine like this? and also how do i time the car if the wires aren't right?

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 8 2010, 09:51 PM

It'll run (sort of), but it'll never be right ...

Who build the motor?
Andy


Wait, TDC mark in the distributor???

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 09:54 PM

i have new idea who built the motor but the tdc mark im talking about is the little notch on the distributor

Posted by: underthetire Mar 8 2010, 09:55 PM

Ya, i caught that one to.

Posted by: underthetire Mar 8 2010, 09:56 PM

All yours andy.......

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 8 2010, 10:01 PM

I had a motor where the builder installed the dizzy drive shaft 180 degrees off. The motor ran but i could never get it to run right. Backfire, missing power in the mid range, all sort of trouble that no timing, adjusting and tuning could fix.

Do you have the timing marks on the flywheel?

You need to pop the valve covers and make sure #1 is at TDC during the compression stroke.
Once you got that, hopefully the marks on the flywheel and the rotor are all in the right spot.


Pray that someone knew what the dots on the cam-gear are for ...
Andy

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 10:10 PM

well i know where the tdc is because i did the valve adjustments and timed it and tried everything to get it to run right then i was doing some research on this site and found that my wires are 90 degrees off from most other peoples. and then someone told me to find tdc and place the #1 wire there and then go 1,4,3,2 but my car would refuse to start wen in those positions. so i moved them all 90 degrees left and it would start and sound great in idle but just doesnt run right when driving around. hope that helps explain the situation im stuck in right now. i just received new points, cap, rotor, and condenser to. will those help my problem any

Posted by: tod914 Mar 8 2010, 10:33 PM

Here's a quicky diagram. Should help.

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 10:36 PM

tod whenever i put my wires like in your picture my car wont start and backfires. is there a reason for that. if i move each wire one counter clockwise it starts right up i just dont get it??

Posted by: tod914 Mar 8 2010, 10:40 PM

sixer, sorry no idea.

Posted by: underthetire Mar 8 2010, 10:42 PM

The notch on the dist is there just to locate the cap. Mine is 90 deg counter clockwise from that with one of my dist., the other I had (009) was 180 different. The dist drive gear may be off, but if you can get it to run, and it times ok, don't worry about it.

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 10:42 PM

thanks anyways the attempt was appreciated

-Alex

Posted by: JRust Mar 8 2010, 10:44 PM

Been a while but that looks messed up to me. Aren't 1 & 3 on the same side of the motor. While 2 & 4 are on the opposite side . Man I don't know it's been a while & I'm tired. Maybe that will look right tommorow

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 10:44 PM

ok thankyou that is very helpful. that leads me to my next question. since my wires are rotates 90 degrees counter clockwise do i still time the #1 wire? or the #4 since thats where the #1 is suppose to be?

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 10:46 PM

no im pretty sure that diagram is right

Posted by: underthetire Mar 8 2010, 10:46 PM

All cars #1, no matter where the dizzy is pointing.

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 10:48 PM

ok thanks ill try that out this weekend should i still install the new rotor, cap , points, and condenser?

Posted by: JRust Mar 8 2010, 10:49 PM

Must be that mine has 8 cylinders

Okay my other 2 are 4's but I haven't worked on one of those motors in years. I'll play the I'm with stupid card for now. I'm going to bed

Posted by: underthetire Mar 8 2010, 10:50 PM

Do you have a dwell meter?

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 10:51 PM

yes i do

Posted by: underthetire Mar 8 2010, 10:55 PM

Then I would do it. I find it much easier to change the condenser by pulling the distr. You might want to think about changing to electronics if it's gonna be a driver.

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 10:57 PM

what do you mean by electronics? and i wont be a daily driver just a weekend driver

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 8 2010, 11:00 PM

OK, I missed it. What did you set your timing to? Is it all stock? FI? Stock cam?1.7, 2.0 or 1.8?

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 11:02 PM

i havent set the time yet. and its a stock 73 2.0 FI

Posted by: underthetire Mar 8 2010, 11:02 PM

Gets rid of the points and condenser. Way less adjustments, and if you ask me, better starting and idle, and seems more stable at high RPM. Some guys that had the earlier versions don't like them, but the newer stuff is pretty reliable. Pertronix, compu-fire, hot spark etc. I'm using the compu-fire right now, too soon to tell but so far so good.

Posted by: tod914 Mar 8 2010, 11:03 PM

Did you have the rotor pointing to the notch where the cap clips into? Say that notch is 12 o-clock if it pointing towards the fan, at approx the 10 o-clock possition on the distributor is a engraved line. That is the where the rotor aligns to for the number one cyl. When you get the rotor aligned with the #1 cyl spot, take the black plug off the fan shroud. leave the car in gear and rock it back and forth slighty and see if your "white" zero timing mark is on the fan. The red mark is 27 degree mark. That should help establish if the marks are there anyway. Unfortunatly I can't take a pic to show you. Camera is out on loan.

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 11:05 PM

so would you recomend it? and if so how much does it cost because im only 18 and dont have too much money. also how hard is the instalation?

Posted by: underthetire Mar 8 2010, 11:08 PM

Got mine off a guy in LA, 62.00 and he is top notch. Run the points for now, and just think about it in 10K when it's time to do points again. And it just drops in. Easier than points to do IMO.

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 8 2010, 11:10 PM

OK. Be sure your valves are set right then time it to 27 btdc. Set your dwell. recheck timing. Your rotor should be pretty close to the index mark on the dist at this point. I'm assuming no vac leaks and all matching fi components in working order? And yes to pointless ignition.

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 11:13 PM

alrights thats what ill do thanks

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 11:16 PM

i did the valves and and as far as i know everythings in working order. and i will have to do some research on the pointless ignition and see if i can afford it

Posted by: underthetire Mar 8 2010, 11:20 PM

Just don't get the empi version. You'll be very sorry if you do.

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 8 2010, 11:22 PM

i've heard alot about pertronix. Are they popular in the 914s

Posted by: underthetire Mar 8 2010, 11:23 PM

yes

Posted by: Gint Mar 9 2010, 09:20 AM

It doesn't matter is the distributor drive gear is 180 degrees as long as you put the wires on the cap 180 degrees out. In other words, put the motor on #1 TDC and drop the dizzy in. The rotor will basically be pointing at the #1 spark plug tower on the cap at this point. Put that plug wire on cylinder #1 and then follow the firing order on the remaining cap towers in order 1-4-3-2 as described. As long as you understand how yours is different than stock, it will run fine once timed properly.

My current 914 has been this way since day one. When I bought in in SoCal and before I drove it home, I adjusted the valves and set the timing at Joe Sharps place. I started form scratch and put #1 on TDC and checked timing marks and distributor position. Sure enough, the dizzy was 180 degrees out. No big deal. Adjusted valves, set dwell and timing and drove it home 1000 miles. It's been thta way ever since. I drive it all the time.

Posted by: type47 Mar 9 2010, 10:24 AM

My thought is the drive gear being out of position and preventing the timing of the engine because the advance chamber will hit something and not allow correct timing. It's kinda tight in there. This drive gear incorrectly installed happened to me; while the engine would run, I couldn't see the timing marks on the fan because I couldn't rotate the dizzy enough before it hit the front shroud.

Posted by: vsg914 Mar 9 2010, 10:44 AM

Gint nailed it. Your diz drive gear is misaligned. Try moving the wires another 90 degrees. They will run 90 off, but not very well. The proper fix is to make sure your at tdc on compression stroke, then pull the diz and move it a gear at a time till the rotor points towards the notch. Be very careful to not drop the spring in the motor. I use a small strong magnet to grab the drive gear for removal.

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 10 2010, 09:29 PM

whats everyones opinion on pertronix

Posted by: sixers34926 Mar 10 2010, 09:30 PM

is there a thread on how to do this?

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 11 2010, 08:39 AM

You won't need a thread. Instructions are in the box. Takes about 15 min's to change out. You have to set the gap (just like the points). I've had them in my Ghia for 7+ years and they are great. Just a bump on the starter and it fires right up. As soon as I get 10K on these points (in the 914) I'm switching over. However, I've read that you can't leave the switch in the on position (without the engine running) for extended periods of time. It will fry them!