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Posted by: Socalandy Mar 9 2010, 12:09 PM

So I received my COA for my 70 914-6 #970 and it states my engine case # should be 4411 only to hear that these COA's are often wrong and another member here has a -6 car in the 600's and his COA states his case # is 4418

So if you have an early 914-6 car with the original case # can you let me know the last four of the VIN and the case #

I waiting to hear back from Porsche and more numbers will help me point out there's an issue.

Thanks,

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Mar 9 2010, 12:52 PM

I am sure that they would not have made a mistake with the engine number, usually they just make mistakes with the options as the codes have been reassigned. Not all engines are in chronological order just as vehicle serial numbers were not assigned in order.
For example I own the last 914-6 GT made (by factory production letter) but the serial number is not the last one!
Bottom line: The numbers are probably right so do not be angry.

Posted by: markb Mar 9 2010, 12:53 PM

Posted by: Socalandy Mar 9 2010, 01:00 PM

Im not angry, I just want the correct info. The info sure seems incorrect if a factory 6 car with an ending VIN in the 600's would have an engine case number 7 digits later than my later car.

With his actual VIN my car is 297 cars later than his.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 9 2010, 01:33 PM

Nope, i think it's very much possible the info is correct.

As George has pointed out, the VIN is not a absolute indicator of sequential numbering of other components.
Andy

Posted by: burton73 Mar 9 2010, 01:38 PM

Andy,

Engine Case number for vin number 41 is 640.4016 If anyone finds this case I would pay a lot of money for it.

Bob

Posted by: McMark Mar 9 2010, 01:39 PM

Andy, maybe we should add a section for engine numbers to the VIN database...

Posted by: agentblr Mar 9 2010, 01:53 PM

I have 4 914/6 cases,I will post the #s when I go out to shop this weekend 2 of them are mysteries,and the other 2 from HSR racers that are alive and well.

Posted by: Socalandy Mar 9 2010, 01:59 PM

Thanks Guys!!!

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 9 2010, 02:11 PM

And a thread where people can post the numbers of spare engine cases they have.

Kind of like a match-making service ...
Andy

Posted by: gandalf_025 Mar 9 2010, 02:13 PM

Just checked the engine # in my 6.

Car VIN. # 619
Engine# is 4299

I know the engine came with the car.

Hope that helps

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 9 2010, 05:13 PM

SoCal Andy (& All) -

IIRC - the 2.0L case nos. would've been a carry forward of the 911 2.0 series from +/- `67-69 MY's IIRC (I don't recall which MY there was a change in the 911 2.0 case design/nos. - if at all).

So wouldn't it make sense that the earliest 914-6's which used the now outmoded 911 engine cases (since 911 went to 2.2L in 70 MY) with a continuing case number??

If that were the case, then you could probably subtract the rough number of production 911's from the late 60's MY's using that case first, then compare the "net number" to your series.

However, at another topic in O&H we'd established that 73 MY 914-4 2.0 case nos. were out of sequence with the VINs, as well as with build dates. For example, mine was built 8/72 with chassis no. on 8/31/72 & VIN ...001954 with GA000424, while another 914-2.0 had a Sept. 72 build & chassis dates (don't recall VIN sequence), but the case was in the high 300's!

Key for you is that the case no. matches your case in the 914, or that you can prove with continuous documentation that the case no. in there is in fact the original (e.g.: an early service receipt showing that case no.).

If you run into resistance from the COA staff, then PM me for the email & tel. of their Customer Service GM who I had to go through to get my COA corrected.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 9 2010, 05:18 PM

Last 4 digits - 4016, .... IIRC 640 is part no. identifier for the series of 2.0L 6.

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 9 2010, 05:21 PM

Excellent idea!

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 9 2010, 05:25 PM

So far for the record - you've got:

VIN: - Case No:

0041 - 4016

0619 - 4299

0970 - 4411

Andy - at least they seem to generally track with the VINs above, and if +/- 3975 were used in prior years' 911's for 69 MY & earlier, then it's pretty close.

Anyone know what the 69, 68, 67 911 production was using these 2.0L cases, predating the 914-6's??

What case is in yours now Andy?

Posted by: Socalandy Mar 9 2010, 05:45 PM

adding a section for case numbers would be great!!

Tom, my car has no engine and thats why I want to get good info so if the gods are good to me I can find the orig. case for my car

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 9 2010, 07:25 PM

Quick - run & look on classifieds here & .club - & I saw someone in CO selling 1 or 2 on TheSamba under Porsche parts classifieds just last week or so (go back a few weeks/months just in case they still have it). Maybe you'll get lucky!

Chances are that case # is it, & if you come up with that # & you've got the "official" PCNA COA which says it is - then who can argue with you!

Otherwise, once you're comfortable with that case #, then you could post a "Looking For WTB" at all the usual suspects ...... & again - maybe you'll get lucky!

PS - I've also seen some factory rebuilt 6 motors in the PET, so you might want to query Porsche in Germany via a dealer, to see if maybe that case was turned in as a "core" for the factory rebuild program sometime back when, & maybe is still in stock as a rebuilt long or short block for purchase! ... again, well you know!

I'll PM you if I happen to come across ole 4411 !

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 9 2010, 09:11 PM

Done!

You can now add a engine number to your VIN profile.


I have yet to come up with a clever way to query that data, but at least now we can start collecting it ...
Andy

Posted by: Socalandy Mar 9 2010, 10:16 PM

Sweeeeeeeeeeet

Posted by: carr914 Mar 10 2010, 05:21 AM

VIN# 673 - Case # According to COA 4419 - Actually 4444

This is what got Socalandy thinking. As Dr914 said the motors were not out in any kind if sequence. Also my chassis # is kind of screwy too.

T.C.

Posted by: gandalf_025 Mar 10 2010, 07:26 AM

A little off topic, But I pulled the original engine out of my car in the 70's and shelved it
and put an early 911 engine in it. Just got curious and checked the # of the early engine. Had no idea it was That early...

Posted by: smg914 Mar 10 2010, 08:32 AM

I believe that engine serial # indicates its from a 911 MY 1966.

Posted by: gandalf_025 Mar 10 2010, 09:23 AM

A little digging and It seems to be out of a 1965.
Maybe I should have left it stock ??

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 10 2010, 03:47 PM

Hey TC - they're all screwy to some degree - even the plates & labels on the car!

You may recall that my Chassis # translated to an 8/31/72 date & the VIN label is also 8/72 when it was ostensibly completed & done - possibly the worlds record fastest 914 assembly in history - 1 day shell to done!

Ditto as I noted with a couple of the GA cases of which I'm aware, which are out of order relative to VINs.

If you've ever seen any assembly line operation (even the old Stuttgart "hand-built" 911s), it's easy to see how any component can be on the belt, in the tray, etc. out of order relative to the shell/car as it moves along - then their VINs & other nos. are out of order to boot!

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 10 2010, 03:53 PM

Does that source give you any info on the serial number range & number of units from the 1969 911T (& 68 MY if same engine S/N series) on which the 914-6 was based as a de-tuned version?

... &/or if they changed the serial no. first 2 digits on the 914-6 engines?

That might give an idea of what S/N started for the early 70 (69 build) 914-6's.

Posted by: Socalandy Mar 10 2010, 03:55 PM

I got a return call from the COA dept. and the case numbers are not in any order and I was read all the info off of the microfiche. they will be adding the production date and send a new COA to me.

So officially looking for case # 6404411

Thanks Everyone!!!


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 10 2010, 04:08 PM

Great!

... & far more painless than my 12 mos. & 3 COAs to get them to correct it!
Maybe my complaining to their div. GM Andrew Pine, got them to be more helpful in the mid-mgmt. levels.

Was it Kristen R. in COA who helped you? She was helpful with me, but her supervisor was a butt!

BTW - I did my semi-regular TheSamba parts cruz last night & couldn't find the guy selling 2-3 old 914-6 engines, so he either sold them, or I'm recalling the wrong site's listing?? .... maybe Pelican, evil-Bay, or ??

As an option, there is a guy with a 6 case in Laguna Hills on Samba last night, but I wasn't clear if it was from a 911 or 914-6 - in case you can't find your 6's original case.

Also, call to Circle Porsche in Long Beach (better service than Newport) with your case # & PET part no. 901-100-380-00 (X - for exchanged case) to see if perhaps they got your original case in trade as a core for a factory overhauled motor.
.... maybe yes or maybe no - but trying to find the old case is a long shot anyway!

I'll keep an eye out for 6404411, as I'm sure will others here!

Posted by: Socalandy Mar 10 2010, 04:14 PM

It was Kristen and she was helpful. I have been checking Samba and Ebay. The one in laguna was for a /6 car just not mine

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 10 2010, 04:50 PM

... as I said, it was an alternative in case you cannot find yours.

Try the dealer route to check with PAG Classics in Stuttgart (Porsche's in-house classics & resto group) - or better yet! - ask for Heather Cooper at the same PCNA 800# as Kristin (Option #3 also IIRC) to have them check for the availability of your OE case over there. Heather checked on some OE parts for my 914-2.0 & I'm sure she would help you on an complete engine!

You're probably looking for 1 case in 3500 or so (counting some extras produced as spares/parts) - so far better odds than 1 in 10-20,000 2.0s or 1.7s!

Posted by: gandalf_025 Mar 11 2010, 01:02 PM

Not sure if this is of any value??
Found a Brochure called "The Porsche Family Tree"
A Guide to Porsche Models from 1948 to 1974

This is some of the Specs for cars from 1965 to 1971.
I have no clue how accurate it is. This Brochure was handed out in the Dealer Showrooms in the Day.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 11 2010, 01:10 PM

That chart can't be trusted.

It states that the 914/6 VIN numbers started with 914.043.0001 and we all know that can't be right ...
Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 11 2010, 01:13 PM

And it states that the highest 914/6 VIN for '71 was 914.453.0443 ...

Posted by: gandalf_025 Mar 11 2010, 01:45 PM

No accounting for accuracy I guess..
I picked it up at the Dealer in 1975
Brochure was probably propaganda.
Doubt they thought someone would actually try to
use it 35 years later ???
Here is what the Cover looked like

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 11 2010, 03:12 PM

Andy - I think it just lists the range "reserved" for the various models here, & apparently did the same with engines cuz they list several 916-6 case nos. ranges from 640-0001 thru -8000 for 70 MY & same range 641- for 71, so it doesn't give a clue as to how many were actually made nor where it started.

However, the 69 911T motor used on 70-72 914-6's has a 619-xxxx case no., so that refutes my earlier theory that it might have been a continuation in series of the 911T case series.

Perhaps they just used the 640-4001 thru 4999 part of the above, or perhaps each one of the 4 separate sets of the various 3000 & 1000 no. series sets were fos motors built for a specific market (e.g.: Euro, USA, etc.) &/or for 5-spd vs. Sportmatic versions ??

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 11 2010, 03:14 PM

Hey Gandolf, can you post the 72-74 & other pages of this here plz?

IIRC, these are still for sale at AA, PP, Dealers, etc., but now include the newer models.

Posted by: gandalf_025 Mar 12 2010, 09:14 AM

This is far as this copy goes..

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 12 2010, 01:04 PM

Thanx Bud! covers my 73 MY anyway!

Note that they left the 74 MY VINs etc. open ended, not knowing yet how many 74's they'd make/sell.