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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 3.2 liter install into Huey
Posted by: naro914 Mar 16 2010, 02:53 PM
Yep, Huey is getting a winter/spring upgrade to it's final (hopefully) engine - a 3.2 liter fuel injected from a 87 carrera. 
After driving a few 3.2's, that was always the engine I wanted to eventually get.
So...all this time I have been upgrading/changing engines that were 1) smaller, and 2) carbuerated. Other than the obvious of check it all out while its out of the car, etc. I know that the best way to make it fit is to flip around the intake.
Other than that??? Anything special I should know, do, forget, etc??
thanks for any help!
Posted by: Ferg Mar 16 2010, 03:03 PM
Not much to add other than you will be happy 
Here is a pic from my old six, I knew the maf was flipped and smaller KN style filter, with a small custom bracket to support it.
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Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 16 2010, 03:26 PM
Practice smiling really big. 
You'll need it.
Posted by: Frost Mar 16 2010, 03:30 PM
That's going to be a hell of a car when it's done.
Posted by: SirAndy Mar 16 2010, 03:35 PM
Other than that??? Anything special I should know, do, forget, etc??
Mount the brain as far away from the engine as possible.
Make sure your front mounted oil cooler is big enough. You do have a front mounted oil cooler, correct?
Make sure your oil lines are large enough.
Mount the thermostat close to the engine.
I'm sure there's more but i'm too lazy to read through my build-thread right now ...
Andy
Posted by: naro914 Mar 16 2010, 03:50 PM
Other than that??? Anything special I should know, do, forget, etc??
Mount the brain as far away from the engine as possible. Good advice. Any suggestions?
Make sure your front mounted oil cooler is big enough. You do have a front mounted oil cooler, correct? Yes, and it's plenty big.
Make sure your oil lines are large enough. Got them should be big enough (see pic)
Mount the thermostat close to the engine. Need one of those.
I'm sure there's more but i'm too lazy to read through my build-thread right now ...
AndyHuey has gone from a 1.8/4 (which I never had, there was no engine when I bought the chassis), to a 2.0/6, 2.2/6 (Papa Smurf shared his engine with Huey for a while), 2.5/6 (from a black race car I eventually sold), 2.7/6 (current, just sold) and now a 3.2/6.
braided ss oil lines.
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Posted by: Ferg Mar 16 2010, 04:06 PM
IIRC mounted the brain inside, behind pass seat against firewall. I remember it being a PITA to feel the plug through the tunnel but it was done.
Posted by: SirAndy Mar 16 2010, 04:08 PM
-12 lines will do. As for the thermostat, let me dig out my build pictures ...
I mounted the brain all the way in the front under the dashboard. The 3.6L harness was long enough to do that without cutting.
Andy
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=44700
The thermostat went into a box
Which was mounted inside the firewall
Oil cooler with -12 lines
Oil line routing and DME brain wire routing
Brain under the dash, oil-lines and cutout for fuel-pump box
993 fuel pump mounted under the tank
Posted by: naro914 Mar 16 2010, 04:21 PM
nice. thanks
what pisses me off it I JUST carpeted the entire inside of Huey. Did a real nice job at it too, but I'll end up having to pull a lot of it up to run the harness and mount the brain somewhere.... Damn!!!
Yeah, almost forgot about the fuel pump too. Not sure where to mount that one.... plus I need another fuel line through the tunnel.
Posted by: Steve Mar 16 2010, 10:51 PM
Regarding mounting the Brain, I just cut the round indentation out on the passenger side firewall and ran the cable across the back and mounted the brain behind the drivers seat with one of the screws that holds the back pad on. Did not cut or modify the cable. Fits perfectly!
Posted by: naro914 Mar 17 2010, 05:46 AM
Regarding mounting the Brain, I just cut the round indentation out on the passenger side firewall and ran the cable across the back and mounted the brain behind the drivers seat with one of the screws that holds the back pad on. Did not cut or modify the cable. Fits perfectly!
Yeah, but I have no back pad. I covered the back fire wall with sound deadening, then carpet. Fit everything perfectly including the floors under the seats. And I used A LOT of adhesive. I didn't want any of it pulling up.
I'd prefer to put it under the passengers seat if possible because we never move that . My wife pulls the drivers seat all the way forward, and me all the way back, when we drive, so I don't want the brain/cables exposed if not necessary.
How about putting it in the rear luggage comparment? That's where I had the MSD mounted.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 17 2010, 06:01 AM
I did a 3.2 conversion for a customer, and mounted the brain in the back trunk, along with the DME relay and a fuse block for the FI. The customer wanted the battery back there too, so I added a battery cutoff switch. Made a nice, clean install when I was done.
You will have problems with wire length. The harness for a 3.2 is way too long for a 914, and the connectors are in the wrong place. Plus you have to run a second wire for the tach. I have the diagram somewhere that I drew for the customer so he would know how to troubleshoot it when it broke.
Posted by: naro914 Mar 17 2010, 06:57 AM
way too long may not be a bad thing.
I made carpet between the seats under the armrest to be removable - velcro on the back so if I ever have to access the shift rod for adjustment or something I could. If I only have to remove the carpet that covers the front half of the tunnel, I may be OK there. then I can run the harness along the same path as the current wires, and mount the brain under the dash like Andy.
Since I use an autometer tach, I have a separate wire for that now. Not sure if that will work, but there is a wire.
Posted by: pcar916 Mar 17 2010, 08:43 AM
I have one simple design rule on my car. Everything has to be quickly accessible. I mounted my DME behind the driver's seat with the DME relay right there as well. This would mean you'd have to find somewhere to snake the 3.2 harness... maybe battened around the engine compartment before it gets into the cockpit?
Good Luck!
Posted by: naro914 Mar 17 2010, 05:50 PM
Anyone got a wiring harness for a 3.2, the one from the engine to the ECU?
Posted by: Eddie914 Mar 17 2010, 06:03 PM
I have to check. I might have the wiring harness. I know I have an ECU and some misc. FI plumbing.
The 3.2 I purchased to replace the 2.7 in my teener was missing the intake manifold. I was hoping on going Motronic but the Webers from the 2.7 bolted right up to the 3.2 and have run quite well. It would run better if it was driven more. I need to clean the idle jets too often due to old damp fuel.
Will you be using a 915 or 901(914) transaxle? Kennedy has the required parts to mate the 3.2 to a 901(914). I am using a 901/914 trans and have only worn out one in the last five years of track use.
I switched to 944 CV joints used with modified 914 axles.
Good Luck.
Eddie
Posted by: naro914 Mar 17 2010, 06:11 PM
Hi Eddie,
I'm using a 901/914 tranny. The car will be used most for street and autocross so it should be just fine.
I have some sort of 930 CV joints and axles - or so I'm told....
I bought the 3.2 engine, and when it got here, it had the motronic unit, but not the harness that attaches it to the engine (and all the other connections the harness has). The guy that sold it to me said he would make good on it, but he hasn't found one yet so I figured I would start looking.
Know anyone looking for 40 IDS carbs? I'm selling those from the 2.7....
Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 17 2010, 06:17 PM
way too long may not be a bad thing.
I made carpet between the seats under the armrest to be removable - velcro on the back so if I ever have to access the shift rod for adjustment or something I could. If I only have to remove the carpet that covers the front half of the tunnel, I may be OK there. then I can run the harness along the same path as the current wires, and mount the brain under the dash like Andy.
Since I use an autometer tach, I have a separate wire for that now. Not sure if that will work, but there is a wire.
The autometer tach won't work without a tach adapter of some sort. The 3.2 uses a tach that takes a low voltage signal from the ECU, not a high voltage signal from the ignition system. If you use the tach signal from the ECU, it won't output enough to drive the tach. If you try to take a signal off the coil, you will fry the ECU.
Get the tach that is supposed to come with the 3.2 and run it. Simpler, and easier to hook up.
Posted by: naro914 Mar 17 2010, 06:24 PM
Get the tach that is supposed to come with the 3.2 and run it. Simpler, and easier to hook up.
Thanks Clay, great advice. Is it 3.2 specific? or is it 911 FI system specific? I think I actually have one from an older FI 911 engine.
It would look better in the dash anyway
Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 17 2010, 06:41 PM
Get the tach that is supposed to come with the 3.2 and run it. Simpler, and easier to hook up.
Thanks Clay, great advice. Is it 3.2 specific? or is it 911 FI system specific? I think I actually have one from an older FI 911 engine.
It would look better in the dash anyway
The older CIS systems used the early tach electronics. You need a 3.2 tach to make it work. You can use a 3.6 tach, but you end up with a bunch of lights you won't use.
I am looking for the diagram I drew, I figure it might help you. But I am having trouble with my primary desktop computer at home, so it may be a little bit.
Posted by: Gary Mar 17 2010, 09:24 PM
Did you guys leave the intake manifold as is or flip it 180 degrees? Looks like Ferg left his stock 911 oriented.
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Mar 17 2010, 10:44 PM
Make sure that the DME relay is good (if a used donor). If it is bad the engine will never start/run. You can also pop the relay out whenever leaving the car (for security), as this makes a very good anti theft device
Also keep a spare DME relay in your race parts box. The DME altitude compensator usually never goes bad. Also make sure that your main (-) neg ground wire group on the engine near the distributor is clean and tight. If you need a decent high flow cone air filter set-up, PM me.
Marty
Posted by: Heeltoe914 Mar 17 2010, 10:51 PM
Good to see your moving up to a 3.2.
Change oil often.
I think the fuel pump for a race car like your should be in the front truck so you can get to it fast and for fast access when working on things like flow, injector checking hot priming etc,
Make sure to cushion the ECU from shock and carry a spare relay.
At high RPM for long periods of time the system draws a lot of current go big on wire. Ask me how I know.
Really a great motor I raced a stocker 3.2 for years. Really like the fact that you can race all weekend and never open the engine bay.
If you ever have to have the motor rebuilt it will most likely be the #5 bearing. At that point CCR Armondo will do a great job on having the #5 journal taped as a oil passage.
I also just had this done on my 3.6 crank.
I really had more problems with my 3.2 being to cold it never ran hot.
Enjoy
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Posted by: naro914 Mar 18 2010, 05:50 AM
Keep in mind this is not going into Papa Smurf, the race car, it's going into Huey which is mostly a street and autocross car, so long hi rev is most likely not going to happen much.
Know too well about keeping a spare DME relay. Our DD is a 993 cab, and the DME died in the middle of nowhere PA. Learned how to make a jumper to make the car run until I could get to a dealer for a new relay. Always keep a spare in the glove box now
Curious, where does the DME relay and altitude compensator connect? In the 993, the relay is up in the fuse box with all the other relays. Is there a connection for it on this missing harness?
Posted by: naro914 Mar 19 2010, 05:45 AM
I have to check. I might have the wiring harness. I know I have an ECU and some misc. FI plumbing.
The 3.2 I purchased to replace the 2.7 in my teener was missing the intake manifold. I was hoping on going Motronic but the Webers from the 2.7 bolted right up to the 3.2 and have run quite well. It would run better if it was driven more. I need to clean the idle jets too often due to old damp fuel.
Will you be using a 915 or 901(914) transaxle? Kennedy has the required parts to mate the 3.2 to a 901(914). I am using a 901/914 trans and have only worn out one in the last five years of track use.
I switched to 944 CV joints used with modified 914 axles.
Good Luck.
Eddie
Eddie,
any chance you found the wiring harness?
Posted by: naro914 Mar 19 2010, 05:50 AM
Did you guys leave the intake manifold as is or flip it 180 degrees? Looks like Ferg left his stock 911 oriented.
That's a good question. Yes, it looks like Ferg left it as stock. Do you need to flip it?
Right now, I'm taking everything apart to clean it. REALLY dirty. Having an issue getting the shroud off cause I can't get the alternator wires through without taking this cone thing off the inside of the alternator to disconnect the wires . May just take off the whole alternator and fan housing at once, they need to be cleaned anyway.
Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 19 2010, 06:03 AM
Can you post a good pic of your conversion flywheel, and PP? Thanks.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 19 2010, 10:40 AM
The DME relay is part of the FI harness. If the harness is missing, so is the plug for the DME relay.
You don't have to flip the intake, but in some ways it makes it easier. If you have stock /6 throttle linkage, you won't want to flip the intake because the linkage will bolt right up. You can use a different intake tube (I don't remember which one) to hook up the AFM, and everything fits.
The one I did was a Euro 3.2, and it was so quick 1st gear was about useless. Great driving car, and it would start and idle wonderfully.
While I love MFI 
, I am seriously considering aftermarket EFI for the 4.0 motor. It would make it easier and more pleasant to drive when it is cold out.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 19 2010, 10:44 AM
Can you post a good pic of your conversion flywheel, and PP? Thanks.
You don't need a conversion flywheel to use the 3.2. It can be done with all factory parts, as a complete bolt together.
Get a 70-71 911 trans case, with the clutch fork and throwout bearing tube. Use that as the case for your trans. This puts in the 911 pull type clutch. Then use the 3.2 DME flywheel and pressure plate, and the 71 911 clutch disk and throwout bearing. You will need a 75 911 clutch cable, and you can throw away the pulley on the side of the transmission. The bonus is that the clutch tube will never break after this, as there is no longer any load on it. It just guides the cable.
Posted by: MoveQik Mar 19 2010, 11:24 AM
Brain in the trunk. 2+ years and lotta miles. No problemo.
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Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 19 2010, 12:11 PM
Can you post a good pic of your conversion flywheel, and PP? Thanks.
You don't need a conversion flywheel to use the 3.2. It can be done with all factory parts, as a complete bolt together.
Get a 70-71 911 trans case, with the clutch fork and throwout bearing tube. Use that as the case for your trans. This puts in the 911 pull type clutch. Then use the 3.2 DME flywheel and pressure plate, and the 71 911 clutch disk and throwout bearing. You will need a 75 911 clutch cable, and you can throw away the pulley on the side of the transmission. The bonus is that the clutch tube will never break after this, as there is no longer any load on it. It just guides the cable.
To me it looks like a conversion push clutch. I have a '70 trans sitting here (that I still can't get the PP off of) and a borrowed KEP style conversion clutch, but I don't think it was made by KEP.
I have a 3.0 and I need the whole assembly and flywheel.
Posted by: Ferg Mar 19 2010, 12:30 PM
Correct, did not flip the intake. It's been a long time for me so I will defer to someone that has done it more recently.
MoveQik's was done the same way mine was... bracket to hold the MAF that is now upsidedown was fabricated along with generic cone filter and tube.
Ferg
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Mar 21 2010, 10:50 AM
MoveQik's was done the same way mine was... bracket to hold the MAF that is now upsidedown was fabricated along with generic cone filter and tube.
Ferg
Be cautious when using ANY generic brand (evil bay) cone air filter. Off shore mfg'd filters are not made with high QC cotton gauze material nor low resistance screen mt'l. These are also over oiled, and are pieced in two sections at their base (known to come apart). Use the MSDS style (one piece US made), or at least the K &N filter. Make sure not to over oil the filter media.
Marty
Posted by: naro914 May 24 2010, 05:20 PM
Bringing this thread back up.
Got the engine in....finally....lots of little stuff to do that just takes time: oil lines modified, fuel lines modified, and electrical.....right now, it looks like a rats nest in the engine compartment! Obviously we're finding there is so much stuff we don't need and it's not easy to figure out what we DO need. Plus, Huey had a combination of an old stock 914 system with new wires for a carburated six conversion, so not all the wires are what we think they are...
Mating the two systems together has been very time consuming...
But...I drove him today!!! Didn't run right though....hunts for a stable idle, and dies a bit on acceleration. John is doing some 'tuning' on it tonight, hope to get it back in my garage tomorrow!
Oh, I need an air filter. Suggestions? I can't find the thread of where someone pointed me to in the past...
Posted by: ClayPerrine May 25 2010, 06:08 AM
Check to make sure you have the oil restricter in the line between the oil tank and the top of the engine. The 3.2 911 used one, and it will cause the idle hunt and a lot of engine oil spewing.
Also, I would think you could use a 1.8L filter and mount with the 3.2, considering they both use the same design air flow meter. but you would have to extend the wire harness and buy a tube setup to get it to the throttle body.
Posted by: naro914 May 25 2010, 06:28 AM
Hi Clay,
Oil Restrictor? how does that have anything to do with idle hunt? we just have the hose that runs from the top of the engine, to the oil tank - like in the other 6's we've had.
Posted by: ClayPerrine May 25 2010, 12:32 PM
Hi Clay,
Oil Restrictor? how does that have anything to do with idle hunt? we just have the hose that runs from the top of the engine, to the oil tank - like in the other 6's we've had.
the system on the 3.2 is tuned to pull blow-by from the crankcase into the intake. The restrictor allows the proper amount of air to enter the crankcase. If it is missing, it screws with the idle settings on the computer, and at high engine speeds it pushes oil back to the tank, causing a mess from the vent.
I found this the hard way on a 3.2 powered six I worked on. The 911 expert asked me if the restrictor was inline, and I has to say "What?".....
Check PET to see the restrictor, I don't have a copy of PET here at work.
Posted by: MDG May 25 2010, 04:35 PM
Bob, I think this is the part Clay is talking about - 93010728900
it's #7 on the illustration
Posted by: naro914 May 25 2010, 05:15 PM
where does it go? Looks like it's on the oil tank.
Posted by: MDG May 25 2010, 06:56 PM
It looks to act as a reducer at the filler end of the crankcase breather hose. Pelican has a photo of it on their site. 
I'm guessing - and I'd like Clay to confirm too as I am about to install a 3.2 into mine as well - that the funnel end of this restrictor pushes into the vent pipe on the filler neck and then the hose slips over and clamps on. Appears to be still available through the dealers at around $15.00
mike
Posted by: ClayPerrine May 25 2010, 08:09 PM
That's the little bastard. Without it, you will have both oil leak and idle problems.
Glad someone has PET and can find it.
Oh.. and don't install it backwards, that will make it worse!!
Posted by: naro914 May 26 2010, 09:13 AM
Well, drove the car yesterday and again today. Seems to run well, no restrictor yet, but will put one on to make sure.
Don't have the altitude compensator thing. is that really necessary?
Still need an air filter.
I think we have some leaking injectors. on cold start, it is a bear to start, and runs really rich until it cleans out all the excess gas. Wouldn't surprise me, all the injectors were stuck when we tried to start it, had to tap them all to get anything going. Hoping driving and some injector cleaner will clean them up.
Otherwise....sweet!!
Posted by: 736conver May 26 2010, 09:42 AM
I think we have some leaking injectors. on cold start, it is a bear to start, and runs really rich until it cleans out all the excess gas. Wouldn't surprise me, all the injectors were stuck when we tried to start it, had to tap them all to get anything going. Hoping driving and some injector cleaner will clean them up.
Otherwise....sweet!!
Try some seafoam. Might help cleaning the system up.
Posted by: realred914 May 26 2010, 10:02 AM
funny I thought a Huey is supposed to have a jet turbine engine, and where are the rotor blades?
Posted by: naro914 May 26 2010, 10:14 AM
Shhh...that's hidden in the trunk...
Posted by: ClayPerrine May 26 2010, 12:08 PM
Yes, the altitude compensator is necessary. It may be the reason for your cold start issue, but I am not sure on that one.
Posted by: Gudhjem May 26 2010, 01:18 PM
Hi Clay,
Oil Restrictor? how does that have anything to do with idle hunt? we just have the hose that runs from the top of the engine, to the oil tank - like in the other 6's we've had.
the system on the 3.2 is tuned to pull blow-by from the crankcase into the intake. The restrictor allows the proper amount of air to enter the crankcase. If it is missing, it screws with the idle settings on the computer, and at high engine speeds it pushes oil back to the tank, causing a mess from the vent.
I found this the hard way on a 3.2 powered six I worked on. The 911 expert asked me if the restrictor was inline, and I has to say "What?".....
Check PET to see the restrictor, I don't have a copy of PET here at work.
Hmmm. I've been trying to find the cause of an idle hunt on the 3.2 in my 911 for months. This is great info.
Posted by: naro914 May 26 2010, 01:52 PM
well, put the oil restrictor in and.....it still hunts...
ordered a altitude compensator so we'll see if that helps.
curious....how do you adjust the idle on a FI engine? when it does idle smooth, it's at 1400 rpm.
Posted by: ClayPerrine May 26 2010, 02:31 PM
well, put the oil restrictor in and.....it still hunts...
ordered a altitude compensator so we'll see if that helps.
curious....how do you adjust the idle on a FI engine? when it does idle smooth, it's at 1400 rpm.
You don't.. well not without reprogramming the e-prom in the ECU. Base idle is set with the IAC unplugged, but there is no way to set the engine idle any higher.
If it doesn't idle smooth at about 800RPM, then you have a vacuum leak.
Posted by: Steve May 28 2010, 01:33 AM
I put my 3.2 in my 914 over 5 years ago and it ran like a charm with no restrictor in the oil breather line up until a couple of months ago. Now it hunts for the first 30-45 second when I first start it up. After that it idles fine and runs great.
Posted by: naro914 Jun 7 2010, 05:08 PM
Update:
We drove Huey over Memorial Day weekend to Carolinas Region Porschefest.
Then again last weekend to Hurricane Region's Winery tour...
All I can say is WHOO HOO!!!
It is SOOOO Nice to be able to just turn the key, and have it start; step on the gas and have it GO...no popping, no hesitation, no dead spots, no backfiring.... just runs like a REAL CAR now!!
I can't find a smily that accurately expresses how much fun we had driving these past few weekends.
It stopped hunting after we drove it a bunch. Idles nice and smooth. Haven't installed the altitude compensator yet, but its sitting on the workbench.
Has an oil leak - bad enough that it needs to be addressed and will be a PITA to fix, but I'm not concerned.
Need to clean up the wiring a bit...
But....wow, SOOO much better than before!! For the first time in a loooong time, Nadine insisted on driving. usually I had to ask if she wanted to, this time she told everyone at dinner 'I'm driving tomorrow'.
Posted by: MDG Jun 7 2010, 05:15 PM
Congratulations!! My 3.2 is on a stand mocking me as I'm in the middle of body and paint. I am green with envy.
and soon, I'll be Irish Green
Posted by: Eddie914 Jun 7 2010, 05:29 PM
Bob,
Way to go! Gotta love the Motronic FI.
When my teener got upgraded from 2.7 with Webers to 3.2 I wanted to go with FI.
I sourced a COMPLETE 3.2 from an '86 Carerra (I was told by the seller it was still in the car). By the time I showed up to pick up the engine, the seller had sold the intake, shroud, fan/alternator and misc FI bits. I ended up with the long block and transmission.
I installed the Webers from the 2.7 and it runs good but not as good as FI. The Webers are so very sensitive to gas QUALITY. Just the smallest bit of water in the gas and the coughing and spitting and sketchy idle comes back. The Motronic FI on my 1988 BMW with 320,000 miles works so well mile after mile after mile after mile.
I do like the vintage look of Webers on a vintage 914.
I am envious!
Cheers,
Eddie
Posted by: naro914 Jun 7 2010, 05:39 PM
Oh, I completely agree. I LOVE the look of carbs in the engine bay - very clean, very neat. You can open the engine lid and everyone goes "Wow, nice!!". with all the wires, hoses, etc of the 3.2 FI, it's kind of messy and cramped in there.
here's a picture of a really nice 3.2 in a beautiful 914 (mine is still a mess) then my old 2.7 with Webers.... I just love the weber look.
Consider this: sell the webers, buy PMO FI Throttle bodies, and put in a Megasquirt system. it will look a lot like carbs, but run like FI. That was what I was going to do with the 2.7 until I ran across the 3.2.
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