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Posted by: SirAndy Mar 16 2010, 08:30 PM

Any reason why this isn't a good idea for quick toe adjustments ???

Andy

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Mar 16 2010, 10:37 PM

Doesn't Brant have something like this one his car?

I think it is a good idea personally.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 16 2010, 10:43 PM

That's a fairly common mod. Patrick sells it. From what I understand, it's very effective.

Posted by: Dr. Roger Mar 16 2010, 10:54 PM

love it.

how about a quick camber adjust too? <wishful thinking>

Posted by: shaggy Mar 16 2010, 11:18 PM

having welded a bunch of the patrick ones id bet they are lighter.
the dont use rod end adapters which are really heavy.

quick camber is wishful thinking unfortunately.

these setups are only really useful or necessary on race/track cars. for any street car they are totally unnecessary.

-jim

Posted by: messix Mar 16 2010, 11:46 PM

i wouldn't say that... it would depend on how much torque the engine makes. that would be a good for a v8 mod. i would think it would add some support to the outter suspension mount.

Posted by: brant Mar 17 2010, 08:52 AM

that looks like a stainless bar
ours is aluminum and a bit lighter
5 years of on track time with 2 drivers
works really well for a track car

Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 17 2010, 09:07 AM

Hmmmmm... we'll see.

Posted by: URY914 Mar 17 2010, 09:37 AM

Looks heavy....

Posted by: Spoke Mar 17 2010, 09:43 AM

I've been thinking of adding something like this to my 914.

I assume your comment is in reference to holding the swingarm in place during heavy acceleration/braking/cornering.

I would like to install this only for setting the toe. Every time I try to set the toe & loosen the bolts, the swingarm shifts and I lose my adjustment.

Patrick wants $320 for their system. I want to know how I can do this job for $20.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 17 2010, 09:57 AM

You can't. (how's that for a gauntlet?)

http://www.mcmaster.com/#heim-joints/=69apj5

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 17 2010, 10:04 AM

rev level 2 currently

you will see it here
http://www.pmbperformance.com/rennbits.html

Posted by: PRS914-6 Mar 17 2010, 10:13 AM

I think for big HP and big torque engines matched with fat soft tires that this mod is worthy of doing. In addition, it's MUCH easier to set the toe. You can scale the weight down a little by using aluminum rods and smaller attaching points as I did.

When you set the toe, I would suggest cranking the rod and leaving the system loaded against the load direction of the suspension. If the rods are not loaded, the adjustment can jump around in the slop of the threads. Once the camber is right, I like to gently snug the suspension bolts and then crank the rods under slight load until I get the desired toe. If you miss it, wind it back and approach it again rather than just cranking backwards. Hope this makes sense.

Posted by: Spoke Mar 17 2010, 10:13 AM

Hmm. I'm not thinking of what can be purchased and bolted/welded on. I'm thinking of what can be manufactured at home with very little cost.

I had a few ideas on how to inexpensively manufacture this. My latest thought involves the old tie rods I took off the car a while back and are sitting in the attic. If I can work out the mounting, the tie rods would give me the adjustment necessary to perform toe alignment.

For me, it doesn't have to be pretty, it just needs to work.

Posted by: andys Mar 17 2010, 10:20 AM

I personally believe it's a good idea whether racing or not. First off, as everyone mentioned, it makes toe adjustments very straight forward. On mine, I have a short hex section mid-tube so that I can use a wrench to make the adjustment (my heims are right and left hand threaded pairs). The other nice feature is if you need to partially drop the swing arm, it will retain the original toe avoiding the need to re-align it again. In my particular case, I have to drop my swing arm to get the inside CV to clear my engine cradle when I drop the motor/trans (V8 conversion), so this is very necessary for me.

Andys

Posted by: brant Mar 17 2010, 10:41 AM

dug out one of the pictures from my "vintage race car" thread
we removed the jack point to save weight (not rusty), and then welded in a small reinforcement on the long for strenght

here is a pic:



Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 18 2010, 04:33 AM

Carroll Smith would observe that you have critical fasteners in single-shear, which he would regard as a crime against nature...

But I don't see much of an alternative, especially for the forward welded pickup.

For extra credit, it'd be nice to use fasteners with enough shoulder near the head so you don't have threads working on the inner race of the monoball, but if it's torqued tight there shouldn't be any motion there anyway.

Posted by: jt914-6 Mar 18 2010, 05:07 AM

I did the mod on my six conversion. Maybe a hinged rocker panel for quick adjustments???

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 18 2010, 05:11 AM

Why not? Evidently some of the factory GT's had hinged panels for easier access to the suspension adjustments...

Posted by: rdauenhauer Mar 18 2010, 12:58 PM

Why not Chris's solution http://www.tangerineracing.com/suspension.htm seems simpler

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 18 2010, 01:04 PM

$239.95/pair simpler?

Posted by: rdauenhauer Mar 18 2010, 03:46 PM

Uh..vs $320.00 from Patrick? & no need to remove Rockers to perform adjustments.

Posted by: jt914-6 Mar 18 2010, 03:46 PM

Unless you're racing a lot, how many times do you adjust the toe on street/autox/de cars? Putting the heim joints on isn't expensive and works.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 18 2010, 03:54 PM

assumes you can source, fabricate, and mount the external toe-link for $0, which I don't believe many people can...

It appears the external link may provide some reinforcement which the big-HP, big-tire people could use. If you just want quick toe adjustment, the Tangerine parts look quite nice.

I believe the real total installed cost is going to be pretty close either way.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 18 2010, 03:57 PM

No... Never said a word about PMS ...


I bet one can build a setup like the one pictured in my initial post for a lot less than $240.

And i have no idea why you think that one needs to remove the rocker panels to do the adjusting.

On my 914, there's plenty of space to get a wrench in there.
Andy

Posted by: rdauenhauer Mar 18 2010, 04:40 PM

No Eric did.
I dont disagree the average joe might be able source the parts for less than that, but then you have to weld-up,
not only the body, but the stamped steel spot welded mounting ears, w/o distorting the sh*t out of them.
Not something the avg. Joe has skill or access to.
My point was, while agreeing that the application of toe adj. was a good one,
I tend agree w/Rich that it may end up costing near the same as a BOLT-ON solution.
I have no experience with ease of adjustment of that setup I was just responding to a previous comment.
K.I.S.S.