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Posted by: Howard Mar 29 2004, 09:29 PM

Car was in at Otto's last few days. He did all the 'Porsche' stuff and called in Rod Simpson to take a look at conversion. Rod said it was fine, but should have an updated radiator to run cooler. Since the current one does leak a bit, I may go ahead and have him change out.
He also said that cooling setup is wrong, since fill tank and expansion tank should be near the radiator, not the engine. Seems to me that as long as both are high in the system, it doesn't really matter. Once pressurized, even the height shouldn't matter.
Opinions? How is your's set up?

Posted by: boxstr Mar 29 2004, 09:42 PM

Howard I have read posts from other V8 owners who has had cooling problems with the RSE radiator setup, and changed to a RH setup, problem soved and cool running. I have no personal experience with either RES, or RH radiator setup.
My filler is at the motor and the expansion tank is in the place where the battery used to be until it was moved to the front trunk.
The majority of expansion tanks that I have seen have been in the engine bay, I have seen a couple in the front trunk.
CCLINRUNNINGCOOL

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 29 2004, 09:50 PM

Rod tells everyone this. With the RH setup I run a single generic plastic puke tank that works fine. Rod is the only person who runs both pieces with his setup. I beleive his radiator works fine if you live in a mild climate area and rarely see traffic. I dont personally feel that it works very well for a daily commuter.

Something else I have noticed while "tracking" a V8 914: Oil temps went through the roof. The water temps hovered around 200-210 with the RH setup, but the oil temps where out of control. I had to back out of the car for a few laps to let things chill out. This was in a mild 400hp GM crate engine with aluminum fast burn heads and a Victor junior intake setup/Holley 750 DP.


B

Posted by: campbellcj Mar 29 2004, 10:05 PM

Do (most) V8 conversion cars run oil and/or trans coolers?

Howard - I meant to go check out your car while it was at the shop. (My office is 2 miles from there.) Been crazy busy lately, though.

Posted by: Howard Mar 29 2004, 10:21 PM

As always, invaluable info.
Craig, what radiator are you using? And where are my shox? send them pony express? Did you find that driver side front grille? Gimme, gimme, gimmie!

Brad, Will install oil temp gauge and let you know. It does seem funny not to have one.
And a 'mild' 400hp crate motor in a 2300# car? I scare the shit out of myself with the 95hp 2.0 at the track. Youse guys have ballz! Taking the 8 to Willow April 17/18 for the Shelby club open track event. Will bring extra shorts and try the doppelganger... Beat 'em with a Chev and a Porsche!

Chris, I only live 2 miles from you, too.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 29 2004, 10:26 PM

Howard,

The V8 914 crowd will be REAL happy to see the next V8 conversion car coming through this shop:

1. IMSA wide body (14in rears/12 fronts) 935 slant nose open cockpit.
2. 930 4 speed
3. Monster brakes
4. Kenny Duttweiler 1200hp twin turbo all aluminum small block.
5. Balls


Should be scary.


B

Posted by: Howard Mar 29 2004, 10:33 PM

Brad, he really should have my whale tail.

1200hp / 2400# sounds like a perfectly reasonable street car.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 29 2004, 10:36 PM

It already has a wing. The roller weighs 1400lbs, so it will end up under 2k lbs.

B

Posted by: Andyrew Mar 29 2004, 10:49 PM

Under 2k.. 1200hp.. umm 1.6 hp to weight ratio?

I dont think we have that kind of smilie yet...



is the closest one that comes to mind...

Posted by: neo914-6 Mar 30 2004, 12:23 AM

Howard,
Brad and Chung installed the RH rad in my car and can say it works well. I did overheat going up the hills recently and Scott of Renegade attributed it to the RS water pump. I run the Dedenbear inlet on top of the motor but it limits my air filter choices so I plan to convert to RH. Here's some pics...
Felix


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Posted by: neo914-6 Mar 30 2004, 12:24 AM

Someone's front mounted expansion (RH also)...


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Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Mar 30 2004, 03:00 AM

Howard what Rod Simpson said about the expansion tank mounted in the front is correct.
If you look at the Black car in the above post you can see the tank mounted. It is plumbed correct with a small water line from the high pressure side of the radiator going to the top of the expansion tank. Then a larger line from bottom of the expansion tank to the low pressure side.

I posted a reprint of a article about cooling in a thread a couple of days ago. In that article this is the way they were talking about running the lines.

IMHO I don't see how you could ever get all of the air out of the system by filling water at the high pressure side like the RHS system does.

Bob

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Mar 30 2004, 03:09 AM

Felix
Don't both the RS and RHS pumps run the same MOPAR impeeler and have the size inlets and outlets. I bet they were both cast at the same place.

Bob

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 30 2004, 03:51 AM

The pic above is a old RH radiator setup. The one they have sold for the last 3-4 years has a shroud and more efficient/larger fans.

I know the system holds a lot of water, but I have never seen a car "puke" more than the generic plastic tank can hold. I would think the expansion tank wouldnt be needed if you had a properly sized "puke" tank in the system.

I have 3 different conversion cars in the shop right now with 3 different cooling systems. 1. RH 2. RS 3. EARLY RH. All of them hover around 200deg even if I am beating on them, but the only one that seems to keep things in check during extended periods of traffic lights/slow moving traffic is the latest RH setup.

I do agree that Felix needs to lose the filler he has in place currently.


B

Posted by: Brett W Mar 30 2004, 09:35 AM

Are you guys running the rubber coolant hose from the front to the rear of the car? If so why not chuck that shit and run some 1 5/8 or so aluminum or stainless tubing for the majoritiy of the run to the front of the car.

Is the RH radiator a three or four core unit? Why not just find a junk hood and cut the exit for the air in the hood? would this not solve the cooling issues?

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 30 2004, 06:41 PM

I'm running Electrical conduit as the water transfer system. It's galvanized, cheap, and easy to weld mounting tabs on. It has nice mandrel bent corners. Doesn't sag Under the car, and sheds heat to aid with cooling. VW uses something simaler under the water cooled boxer Van. Why reinvent the wheel.

Posted by: Mueller Mar 30 2004, 06:58 PM

and the van sits 6" higher or more than a 914.....less chance of hitting the lines on a speed bump.....ovalized tubing would be better.....you might want to add a few skid plates under the car to be on the safe side........

Brett, some people have run the lines inside the car (great in the winter, sucks in the summer)....The car that Felix has, had copper tubing running thru the rocker panels....his car now has the regular green stripe hose running under the car...........

Posted by: datapace Mar 30 2004, 07:21 PM

Rich,

Some food for thought. I thought that was a good (and cheap) solution, too. FYI, they don't galvanize the INSIDE :-D Ask me how I know!

I noticed this as I was ripping out the old stuff to use gates green stripe. I still like the metal idea, much better heat transfer, but there are some wicked curves to really do it right.

-datapace

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 30 2004, 11:14 PM

I like the rubber. It bounces back when you hit it with something instead of "crimping" the line and frying your engine before you figure out what the problem is.

Rubber lines: 100$ and 1 hour install.

How long does it take to install hard lines ??



B

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 30 2004, 11:30 PM

I bet I could coat the inside with gas tank liner. Still a cheap solution.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 30 2004, 11:33 PM

FYI:

The Boxsters and 996's run 2 steel 1 inch diameter lines that are side by side and "Y" out on either end to split off to the twin front radiators and the engine. They run in a tunnel protected by a underbody tray.


B

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 30 2004, 11:42 PM

The galvanized tube sits nicely in the recess inboard of the pinch weld. I spend about 6 hours fabing a nicely curved tube. It runs inside the boxed rail under the gas tank. The second one will take about an hour. No one is paying me to build may car so My labor is free. I highly dought you could ever hit a tube hard enough to crush it It far more ridgid than the chassis. You'd have some serious suspension damage first. Just an option for the thrifty.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 30 2004, 11:46 PM

I'm not a huge fan of the rubber... but it is easy on the time during install.

Why not run copper ??


B

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 31 2004, 12:17 AM

If you bottom copper you may rip it. It's much softer, less rigid. Also hard to get long sweeping curved pieces without crushing the tube. If you bottom steel you may ding it but you'll probably drive away. Here' the right side for my car in the rough.


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Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 31 2004, 12:18 AM

end next to motor...


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Posted by: GWN7 Mar 31 2004, 12:25 AM

I was checking the freeze/heat range on the green stripe hose and it's about -20 for it. I think I might have to go to the silcone hose. It cost's more but has a working temp down to -50....Just a thought for fellow cold weather friends...

Posted by: neo914-6 Mar 31 2004, 02:11 AM

Bob,
The black 914 V8 owner will tell you no. He had tried two sizes of MOPAR impellers but I don't remember all the details. The old story was that RS and RHS used the same cast blanks or the same foundry. Even if this was true, RHS currently has an improved cast housing and inlet/outlet designed to reduce cavitation. Inlets and outlet sizes can be changed with the fittings. If I convert to the RHS water pump, I'll post pics of them next to each other for comparison.

As far as Mikes mention of my copper and aluminum lines, I agreed with Brad in that it would take more R&D to make it work than installing a known good RHS system quickly. I had access to a CAD tube bender many years ago but a big mistake was routing lines over the front wheelwells. Routing the rubber lines under the car now reduces air pocket formation. If you can do it in hard lines without too much chassis mods, then hats off to you.

Felix

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 31 2004, 02:18 AM

They where the same. The differences where in the actual water pump itself. It came down to WHO rebuilt them. When Andy owned RH he had a specific distance from the impeller to his cast body. The only way to get this distance correct was to have the water pumps made for him. Everyone thought they could run out and buy stock iron Mopar pumps (I tried) but you had to set the impeller heigth correctly or most of them would rub on the inside of the casting.


B

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Mar 31 2004, 05:27 AM

I bought a used housing off of Ebay and installed a $13 impeller from FLAPS. I did have to change the impeller heigth, but no big deal. I thought it was my cheap pump not the housing itself.

The pump to have is the new meziere remote mount belt driven pump. Would more than likely cost less too..

http://www.meziere.com/ Then open up the E catalog and go to page 17

Bob

Posted by: Lawrence Mar 31 2004, 06:49 AM

Brad wrote:

I don't have a V8, but I wouldn't use copper for coolant or fuel lines. Copper work hardens with vibrations... after a while it becomes brittle. No thanks.

-Rusty

Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 31 2004, 10:05 AM

Bob,

quick note here for you:

I have been closely following some local business owners who are testing the Meziere. They happen to be from Aus where it is made. They are using it to pump water in a 911 from front to rear. I'm VERY impressed with the numbers they have obtained at this point.


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