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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 1 2010, 09:49 PM

First pics of my EZ30R engine with 1000 miles total!
Now to take out the Ej20 turbo this weekend and see if the new engine can fit on the renegade engine cradle!


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 1 2010, 09:50 PM

one more on stand



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Posted by: Travis Neff Apr 1 2010, 10:09 PM

Nice!

Posted by: DBCooper Apr 1 2010, 10:14 PM

VERY nice! I can't wait to see how this turns out.

Posted by: GS Guy Apr 2 2010, 05:31 AM

I've long thought that would be the ultimate "6" conversion.

Looking forward to the progress thread.

Now all it needs is an IR EFI intake system to complete the look!

Posted by: Zaney Apr 2 2010, 11:51 AM

I missed if this Six is going to be N/A or turboed?

Posted by: Porcharu Apr 2 2010, 01:03 PM

How about a side view pic so we can see the oil pan. Is this the engine with 1 big exhaust port or 3?

Posted by: TwinTurbo914 Apr 2 2010, 01:14 PM

It should be a three port engine, due to the composite intake, the earlier engines didn't have variable cam timing or valve lift, and had aluminum intakes.

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 2 2010, 09:45 PM

EJ20 is out finally!

Yes it is the 3 Port Exhaust, not one.

Its going to be N/A, check out the oil pan, save depth down as Ej20, but obviously different.

Just ordered the Motor mounts(different than Ej20) from ebay yesterday, so i'll be trying to fit this baby into the Renegade Mount next week.

Stock Subaru Engine wiring Plugs also ordered, so this wiring will be clean! Should plug right into the 2 square electrical plugs on the engine.

Going to be Dual exhaust, and I am making the header, so you guys can see my Tig Welding, I think I am way better at it now.


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 2 2010, 09:46 PM

side


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 2 2010, 09:47 PM

Underneath....hey also if anyone knows...Why doesnt this Engine have a fuel return line? They all dead end into the injectors equally with no return. Have to figure out how to hook this up.


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Posted by: kg6dxn Apr 2 2010, 11:14 PM

My Dodge V10 has no return line either. It uses a 45psi pump to the 45psi injectors. The pump has an internal bypass to "dead head" the fuel during idle.

Posted by: Dr Evil Apr 3 2010, 12:21 AM

Awesome! I have been wanting to do that conversion since I learned about the engine when it came out. It is the only redeeming quality of the nast looking Tribeca

Posted by: Gint Apr 3 2010, 11:41 AM

Sweet! Disregard my question in the "best conversion" thread.

Posted by: jasons Apr 3 2010, 12:14 PM

Looks good! Do you get the motors locally?

Posted by: MoveQik Apr 3 2010, 12:22 PM

Very nice. That car is going to be a rocket. Get it done in time for coffee next month!

Posted by: FourBlades Apr 3 2010, 01:15 PM

That is a beautiful engine.

What kind of HP and torque does it make?

John

Posted by: Wannabe 914-6 owner Apr 3 2010, 10:43 PM

Nasty looking????? My wifes 06, sorry about the cell phone pics


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Posted by: Dr Evil Apr 3 2010, 10:53 PM

Its ugly, particularly the rear....

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 4 2010, 01:32 AM

I can get the Ej20s local, but this one I got lucky... I got this UNBELIEVEABLE deal on ebay. 5 minutes after it was posted....ready for this deal??.........$1100 + $150 shipping from CA to AZ! I know!!!! holy crap! I hit buy it now SO FAST!

The computer is going to cost me $2200 itself! But considering these engines usually go for $4000 in this condition, its worth the expensive computer.

Actually i was WAY wrong on the HP #'s. My eJ20 Turbo motor put out 252 hp, but this was at the wheels! My new N/A Ez30R puts out 250 hp, but thats at the crank, so about 30 Hp lower. But who says i wont put a nice simple, 50 hp Nos Jet in it. (my enventual plan) Gotta keep that Hp the same, too fun!

Weight came in at 315 lbs, measured today. The Ej20 is about 40 lbs lighter.

Just figured out where all the wires go, still waiting on factory male end of the engine plugs to arrrive in the mail.

Posted by: Wannabe 914-6 owner Apr 4 2010, 08:52 AM

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder:) My wife loves it, and when shes happy the earth continues to spin

PS.. This replaced our Vue, which blew a new Bridgestone on a corner on a wet day, before Thanksgiving. Just thankful they all came out next day, battered but alive. The cottonwood was the only thing that kept them from landing in the creek upside down. My oldest was sitting seat belted in on the passenger side, but ended up in the back seat. Had he stayed in his seat, there is no doubt that it would have not turned out well for him. Happy Easter and best of luck getting your vehcles back on the road. Especially that fugly Forrester. Now there is a car that has a profile only its owner could love


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Posted by: pktzygt Apr 4 2010, 11:38 AM

It's a Tribeca. But it's also fugly on the inside. Perrin had turbo'd that motor though.

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 5 2010, 06:09 PM

WOW! doesnt that EZ30R look like it was made for that engine bay?? FITS like a glove!

Renegade Hybrids Engine Cradle works with this engine also, lines right up with motor mount position.

See pics. It will be about 1.5 inch higher in engine bay. Still waiting on motor mounts, temporary smaller spacer in place of mounts.

This is just a mock up, Have to pull back out to put flywheel on. (being resurfaced)


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 5 2010, 06:10 PM

another


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 5 2010, 06:10 PM

look at all that space around throttle body!


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 5 2010, 06:11 PM

as i stated earlier, engine will be about 1.5 inch higher, but look at where it is now. NOT bad. When mounts come in I think it will be perfect!


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 5 2010, 06:12 PM

on cradle


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 5 2010, 06:38 PM

Here is a pic of where the motor mount lines up, waiting on mount to come in mail


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 5 2010, 06:43 PM

side clearance


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 5 2010, 06:44 PM

passenger side clearance


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Posted by: Dr Evil Apr 6 2010, 01:07 AM

Friggen awesome Just as I had imagined it. You got a smoking deal on that engine. I hope the price comes down in the next few years so I can afford to do one of theses

Posted by: Tom Apr 6 2010, 01:36 AM

That looks like it will be a screamer alright and looks pretty nice too! Just wondering, do you plan on fabing some tin to seperate the upper engine comp from the lower?
Tom

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 6 2010, 02:32 AM

No I don't think so. In fact I'm going to try to get rid of most of the leftover engine shelf in there. Less weight the better.

Posted by: jasons Apr 6 2010, 07:22 AM

That fit is great! I was under my project car last night grinding welds, thinking that you should get rid of all that unnecessary sheet metal. It would really clean up the engine bay.

Posted by: Porcharu Apr 6 2010, 02:14 PM

Yes cut the unneeded sheet metal out - that stuff is sharp and will cut you up every time you work on the engine. Will look a lot better to boot.

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 6 2010, 04:59 PM

Fits like a glove. Stock Subaru mounts fit right into the holes of the renegade mount. Only mod was to made the holes slightly wider on the mount where the mount bolt comes through. The 3.0 liter mount had the 2 studs on the mount a little closer together. But same angle, and slipped right into the 2.0 mount location! Sweet!



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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 6 2010, 05:00 PM

The oil Pan is Perfect. Great clearance !


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 6 2010, 05:00 PM

side view


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 6 2010, 05:02 PM

final position of intake, yep slight mod needed to rear firewall, but maybe i might be able to slip a 90 degree Coupler in there.

I like that you can see the Spider intake real well.


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Posted by: Andyrew Apr 6 2010, 05:30 PM

Reminds me of the 928 intake. Cool!

Posted by: Gary Apr 6 2010, 08:45 PM

If anyone in the PNW wants to follow budman's lead, I'll offer moral support: http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pts/1671212995.html.

Posted by: scotty Apr 6 2010, 09:11 PM

Dear Subaru,

Some friends of mine have this idea for a new production car...

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 6 2010, 09:14 PM

Oh stay away from those 3.3 s. They are heavy and only put out 200 or so hp. I bet my engine is 50 lbs lighter.

Posted by: RobW Apr 6 2010, 11:01 PM

I need to drive a bad ass Subi conversion.. it sure sounds / looks good...

Posted by: camaroz1985 Apr 7 2010, 09:00 AM

Can you flip the intake and move the alternator so you don't have to cut the rear firewall?

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 7 2010, 09:18 AM

yep i think you can, but I need A/C in Arizona. Thats where the compressor goes.

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 7 2010, 10:00 PM

Quick mockup of header, will redo in quality steel. Just tack welded for a fitment through engine cradle..
Using a 3-1 flat collector from STBEXHAUST.com for the exit


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 7 2010, 10:01 PM

rear without collector yet (using this FMC one)


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Posted by: camaroz1985 Apr 8 2010, 07:09 AM

I see, but you don't need power steering. I'm sure you could figure out how to move the alternator over there. Or just cut the fire wall if you are ok with that.

Posted by: atsealevel914 Apr 8 2010, 10:55 AM

They put out 230 hp and are lighter than a porsche six.

Posted by: SLKWrx Apr 8 2010, 11:53 AM

Sweet... Open header!

Posted by: charliew Apr 8 2010, 01:12 PM

If I remember right the 3.3 uses 2.2 stuff and the 30r has offset rods which means no aftermarket rods for boosting.

You can ceramic coat the tubes you've already started with. The LT1 motor mount uses a heat shield that looks like a turbo blanket. You might want to put one on your motor mounts if they are going to be that close to the headers.

Posted by: TwinTurbo914 Apr 8 2010, 01:27 PM

The 3.3 did use the 2.2 stuff, but the 3.0r does not have the offset rods, the 3.6r has them, the 3.0r is one the one you want to make big power as there is aftermarket pistons, sleeves, and rods unlike the 3.6r.

Posted by: charliew Apr 8 2010, 01:32 PM

Great info. It sounds like you are on your toes on this swap. I truly think this is a better swap in the 914 mostly because of the sound of the 6. I do think the suby tranny is also the way to go.

Posted by: atsealevel914 Apr 8 2010, 02:30 PM

The 3.3 uses same aftermarket rods that are available for the ej20 and 2.2 but you should have a set of six rods balanced. You can also use the 2.2 pistons but your compression will be way to low and they are not forged. very nice aftermarket stuff is available for the 3.3 like high capacity/low clearance aluminum oil pans, forged pistons in 8.5,9.5,11.0 ratios, forged rods, Several performance cams. Computer software for turbo and NA applications for factory computer. all the aftermarket clutch components from the 2.0's too.

Posted by: Porcharu Apr 8 2010, 04:56 PM

I think this guy might disagree. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqnuj58lFQI

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 9 2010, 11:35 AM

Okay, Guess what guys. NOW Link ECU is only dealing through one guy in CA named Neil....and....they raised their prices to $2500 bucks from $1500 for the Extreme ECU. What a crock! Storm is now $1450-1500 from $950.

Does anyone have a better connection? I guess Link just hired a new VP and he's rasing prices across the board, thats also for their Renamed ECU Vi-pec v44 and v88.

I am getting the extreme, because i can justify it, since i got a Screaming deal on my engine, but its definately a few weeks out now.

Greedy VP's. Ya think if they just lowered it, they could corner the whole market and everyone would have a LINK ECU in their sandrail or kit car.

Posted by: charliew Apr 9 2010, 12:46 PM

I'm not up on link but isn't that what outfront sells? They may have what you want in inventory and may give you a better price. For 2500.00 I probably would learn megasquirt or try another brand. SDS or whatever will support cam timing.

Posted by: DBCooper Apr 10 2010, 06:05 AM

I sent you a PM a week or so ago with a link from NASIOC about a Kiwi Link dealer offering a group buy. OK if they get a group going, but if you don't want to wait you could buy singles from him as well.

Edit: Oh, just went over there to get the link and see you've posted in the thread, so you got the PM. Did you try to contact Dave? Any answer back, or is that now a dead end?

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 10 2010, 10:45 AM

Hmmm, let me email him about a group buy and get back with you....

Posted by: DBCooper Apr 10 2010, 01:47 PM

I think it would be tough to get a group together, but if he'll sell for a high-viz group buy he should certainly sell singles. Worth asking anyway.

Posted by: Brando Apr 10 2010, 02:28 PM

So why isn't this going to be a low to moderate turbo setup?

Aren't those subi engines supposed to be boost-happy or somesuch? Especially if you're going to have to use a custom LINK setup anyhow with your custom headers... You'd wipe the shit-eating grins off of 996tt owners on an hourly basis!

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 10 2010, 08:13 PM

Wiping the doors off every little wrx punk was definitely fun this past year. Yes every one! Now 996 guys that would be fun too, but honestly. I am just pushing my luck with the cops.

I am looking for drivability and I love n/a engines. I would rather have a NOS bottle in back in the future. Or even mess with a different cam profile from delta. I talked to them already and they said they grind my cams too for about 14 % hp gain .
That would bring me up to 285. Whew! Who needs a turbo with that number!

Posted by: Zaney Apr 11 2010, 12:26 AM

I just drove down to Tacoma yesterday and picked up their SOHC 1000 grind for my 2.5L n/a engine. I will be taking the heads to a machine shop to port and polish them before re-installing the cams.

I say go for it!

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 12 2010, 08:27 PM

header driver side complete


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 12 2010, 08:28 PM

received other end to my engine harness! and it fits!! This is going to make wiring a TON easier.


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 12 2010, 08:32 PM

Can i ask a favor? If someone has stock heat exchangers on your car, can you take a pic of the axel from the back. I want to make sure i have enough clearance when i put the exhaust pipe straight back. I want to see how high the axel is above the heat exchanger and how far center or to the suspension it is......thanks guys

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 16 2010, 09:31 PM

while cleaning up the engine bay, found this patch panel. FUN!!
what a PITA to clean up.


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Posted by: strawman Apr 18 2010, 01:53 AM

This is a great thread that I'm gonna watch closely. However, I'd be a little worried about the clearance between the exhaust manifold and engine mount bar -- it seems a bit close. I would bet that those two items might hit on accel/decel and make some untoward noises...

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 18 2010, 11:48 PM

pic of behind patch panel, to be fixed this week via my parts car donor metal.


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Posted by: budman5201 Apr 19 2010, 10:02 PM

So far 8 hours spent on just engine bay, no where near done yet. This patching and welding all the previous owners screw holes, access holes, etc take a looooong time.

Tested my GLOSS black POR 15 tonight on the front bulkhead of the engine compartment. Its going to look nice all done.

Posted by: budman5201 Apr 22 2010, 12:33 AM

Just ordered a GT engine lid from Sergio. Cant wait!

Posted by: budman5201 May 3 2010, 10:38 PM

GT lid looks great! thanks Sergio.

Progress over the past week...

Stock battery area fully replaced with sheet metal from parts car. TOTal inside of engine bay cleaned up, sanded down, and coated with Black gloss POR-15.
Hell hole area was VERY rust free when i really got into it.

Center tunnel cleared of all accelerator tubes, lines,etc. Clutch Cable Tube replaced with thicker steel and Tig welded to a thick plate at rear of firewall and RELOCATED to driver side for more clearance in tunnel.

Cable Shifter relocated to inside tunnel and placed back about 6 inches toward the rear from stock location. (I am 6'4", so shifter was always a little to far from me when seat is all the way back)

EXTREME LINK ECU is now in my hands and wiring will follow before i put the engine back in.

Pics will follow in next few days

Posted by: DBCooper May 11 2010, 05:33 AM

Sure am looking forward to those pics...

Posted by: budman5201 May 11 2010, 10:18 PM

Okay almost done guys. Here is my 2003 Boxster Muffler, I cant believe how nice it came out.

Check out the brackets needed to fab. They bolt directly to Transmission Main Stock mounting bolts for the weight and small ones on rear of transmission for stabilization not weight.

(sorrry for the crappy cell phone pics)


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Posted by: budman5201 May 11 2010, 10:30 PM

Engine bay is done and engine in....a few pics before and after. Look at my nice small battery tucked down low in front of engine. Cranks over engine just fine!

Yep my welding is NOT clean, but very solid. It litterally took me about 24 total hours just to plug all the holes from previous owners and take away all the air cooled sheet metal. Battery box area done and hell hole area was solid when i was sanding it.

Clutch CABLE tube also moved to other side of tunnel. Solid FOREVER now.


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Posted by: budman5201 May 11 2010, 10:31 PM

more


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Posted by: budman5201 May 11 2010, 10:32 PM

more


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Posted by: budman5201 May 11 2010, 10:33 PM

more


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Posted by: budman5201 May 11 2010, 10:34 PM

more


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Posted by: boxstr May 11 2010, 11:14 PM

Curious, why the battery so far down low and, to me it seems difficult to get at if needed?
CCL at CAMP

Posted by: budman5201 May 11 2010, 11:47 PM

Just seemed like a good place for it. Tons of room in front of engine, two bolts and it's out. Easy access, photos don't do justice.

Posted by: karmanbuilt May 12 2010, 12:32 AM

I'am curious too about the engine lid you're running. I've seen other members who had those on their cars. Is it for better cooling, and what do you do when it rains??

Posted by: Zaney May 12 2010, 09:47 AM

Check out where he lives... Arizona. The only rain to watch out for is in Aug-Sept Monsoons every other night or so from Baja.

I would like to do a GT lid too but the PNW does not really suit it except for a strict 'sunny day' car.


Budman,
Looks awesome!!!


Nate

Posted by: charliew May 12 2010, 10:37 AM

I like the muffler and the battery location. You are doing great. I really wish you would have started with the suby tranny though. The torque of the hotrodded suby will easily overcome the 901 if you run fat tires. I bet the boxter muffler will sound really good but may make too much back pressure for a turbo application.

Posted by: Root_Werks May 12 2010, 01:43 PM

That muffler looks great and I bet it'll be nice and quiet.

Posted by: budman5201 May 12 2010, 02:09 PM

Thanks.....btw my engine is not turbo. Ez30r n/a

Posted by: aircooledtechguy May 12 2010, 02:46 PM

Lookin' good so far.

There's a guy here in Anacortes who took an original, unmolested '73 2.0L and had a Subie SVX motor put in it.

I don't know how the SVX-6 compares with the Tribeca-6, but I can tell you that with the SVX motor it is one wild ride. He stopped by a few weeks after getting it shoe-horned in and threw me the keys. . . I rolled off in 1st, shifted into second and nailed it. Instantly it was sideways and stayed that way until I shifted into 4th at around 80mph

Make sure your life insurance is up to date before testing the capabilities of your new motor

Posted by: budman5201 May 12 2010, 11:18 PM

well my last 2.0 turbo motor was 252 hp, 272 torque at the wheels. I wonder what 250-270 NA hp at the flywheel will put to the wheels on the dyno and how it will feel on the street compared to the turbo.

The turbo was......FAST!!!. I'd say about 0-60 4.2 secs.

Anyone know exactly what the loss is in our cars on the dyno?

Posted by: charliew May 13 2010, 11:29 AM

I know your motor is na but that probably won't be enough after about 6mo, if the tranny is still in it. You know you will want more. I didn't see how you plumbed the exhaust into the ends. Will it take a 90 on each end? I don't like no but everone has his own idea of the best way to get to a goal. A common number on a single 90degree axle loss is about 20%. That doesn't take into the turn around loss the midengine or tail dragger tranny has. Probably if someone here doesn't know a gt 40 type forum will know. google it.

Posted by: Zaney May 13 2010, 11:39 AM

Forget the Turbo...

I say http://www.raptorsc.com.au/kits.php?id=20 it!!! Insta-Torque!! (I know it is for a 4 cylinder but you could make it work )
You would definitely need a Suby LSD 5 speed then!
Looks great!
Nate

Posted by: budman5201 May 14 2010, 09:40 AM

Working on electronic throttle today. It's amazing how simple it is with the link Extreme ecu. I'll post a video of the pedal and throttle body plate actually moving next weekend. (pedal should be here this weekend or Monday) if anyone is curious go to linkecu.com and type in ez30r in forums and you'll see my posts where Simon just posted me a great diagram of how to hook up the elec trottle.


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Posted by: budman5201 May 18 2010, 11:23 PM

fuzzy pic, but drivers side of exhaust done, now passenger side is left.

Coolant overflow and purge tank are now in and connected, Radiator hose back to engine is connected.


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Posted by: budman5201 May 20 2010, 05:47 PM

My electronic throttle finally arrived!! Should be wired into this weekend and i'll try to take a video of the throttle plate opening on car with pedal.

wow too much coffee while taking pics today, very fuzzy!


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Posted by: budman5201 May 23 2010, 05:56 PM

Sorry crappy video, but I was a little too excited that I got it working.!!

Too cool, no matter how fast or slow I hit the gas its directly a 1:1 ratio. Awesome! Cant wait to get this baby going....almost done

Here is the video of the throttle plate opening and closing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU1Dc41nv_U

Posted by: budman5201 May 27 2010, 03:58 PM

SHE RUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Youtube video of it running in a day or so!

Not even tuned yet and its smooth as silk! Engine doesnt even move!

Sounds killer through that stock boxster muffler too....Quiet!

If anyone needs help wiring the ez30R, i am officially now an expert! Beer this weekend!

Posted by: SirAndy May 27 2010, 04:12 PM

You should use the stock cup washers on your transmission mounts to prevent the tranny from sliding off the bolts ...

Andy

Posted by: DBCooper May 27 2010, 07:38 PM

Outstanding. When you do the video be sure to show ground clearance. I couldn't figure that out, if it would be sufficient if I couldn't section the oil pan, do didn't do that engine. I even bought a performance 911 banana muffler for it. I'm REALLY curious to see what you've got. That should be a dynamite power plant for a 914.

Posted by: budman5201 May 27 2010, 09:16 PM

ground clearance is EXactly what the Ej25 or ej20 turbo was. It oil pan is actually level with the renegade engine cradle. VERY nice. No sectioning of oil pan needed at all.

Yep i'll post pics. and a video of it running in my driveway and i'll make sure to pan the camera on the side of the car looking underneath as well as from the rear.

Now i am pulling out my wire loom and making it look pretty since all my connections are tested.

Posted by: budman5201 May 29 2010, 12:07 AM

Transmission sliding back off bolts......Impossible. The bolt that holds the aluminum bracket to the stock transmission mounts is right behind the ears of the transmission. They are so close to behind the ears you have to tighten them first then bolt the trans up.


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Posted by: DBCooper May 29 2010, 04:48 AM

Was that a Renegade engine cradle at one time? I haven't actually seen one before. And I wasn't aware you'd done a cable shifter, so guess I'll have to do a search to find out more about it.

By the way, if your Boxter muffler makes your car sound anything like this EZ30R then you've got a winner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYsZ1-IqS1w

Posted by: v82go Jun 14 2010, 06:32 AM

Anything new on the EZ30 project ?

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 14 2010, 12:26 PM

Its up and running. Map is almost done, dyno this weekend.

Here is a video of it running. click for youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abu5jt1SsZE

Posted by: jsayre914 Jun 14 2010, 12:40 PM

cool video

I could not imagine how fast i might accidentally drive with 250hp, i get tickets with 90hp

what are the back wheels resting on in that video??

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 14 2010, 07:07 PM

They are my custom jack stands. Solid Metal boxes that I found that I welded the covers onto.

Radiator fans are now individually controlled by ecu. They come on at different temps so no huge draw when they pop on individually.

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 18 2010, 07:15 PM

She's off the Jackstands! Drove her around the block today. Definitely going to do a self autotune for AFR ratio tonight. I know my map is close, but just want to make sure.

Here is my Ethrottle and how i attached it to the stock pedal. Needs major adjustment. Throttle is way too touchy. I lowered the ball snap in point on the pedal so the pedal had more travel, which seems to help a lot.

Now for the fun parts....fine tuning! I knew i should of put back the NON-PUCK clutch pad. This one grabs like a SOB!


Man my camera made everything look rusty, its not its just painted original orange with a little glue residue on the floorboards.


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Posted by: charliew Jun 19 2010, 08:25 PM

Be careful that clutch will put a lot of shock on the tranny. Maybe it will break in some. Aftermarket clutches can be real hard on trannys. The light car will help a lot. You can move the gas pedal through the motion you want and measure the full motion of the sender and put the ball socket exactly on the pedal where the full motion can be utilized.

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 20 2010, 10:37 AM

I did a lot of tuning/driving this weekend so far. I agree the puck clutch was good for the turbo, because i reached the limit of grabbing power. But with this motor, I am definately putting the standard one back. The puck isnt bad when your moving, just starting up and stopping which is A LOT of the driving for a street car, not comfortable and jerky.

Oh by the way, the boxster muffler sounds awesome and VERY quiet at low rpms, but just like those videos on youtube when revved up, but a little lower growl! so Perfect!

Okay fuel/hp guys. I am running in all safe levels with AFR. (max 14.7) with the WOT at way rich 9.0. (we will set this at the dyno on monday.) Right now, with the seat of my pants driving it feels like my ej20 Turbo motor at about 10lbs of boost. So i estimate around 220 hp at the wheels.

My question is for the fuel/hp dyno guys, how much more hp will i gain when i get this 9.0 AFR richness out. It feels great now, but that is a little rich for a N/A engine at WOT. I was thinking about 12.5/13 at WOT, does this sound right? OF course my dyno guy will tell me monday, just curious now...

Posted by: charliew Jun 20 2010, 12:12 PM

Are you using a knock retard on the link? The leaner it gets the more power it will make but the hotter the combustion will be. Which means it's more susceptable to knock on a really hot day. What fuel will you have it tuned to? A good tuner will listen with a device to detect knock while he is tuning. Just getting bad gas can be a serious threat with close to the optimum (lean) afr, turbos are way more critical but keep in mind the fuel you will have available. A stock ej20 turbo with 14 psi is rated at 227 at the crank not the wheels. ej20 wrx is about 180 at the wheels at best stock. A 300 hp 2.5 sti 17psi stock makes about 240-260 at the wheels. A jdm ej20 turbo motor had 9:1 compression where the ej20 US wrx has around 8:1 so the jdm could make more power but the same boost of 14psi is real tricky on US gas. None of this will apply to your motor though as it's not jdm. Be sure the tuner knows you want it safe on the gas you expect to find easily. Actually the timing tuning probably will help as much as the afr tuning. The only way to push the limits for the most power is to use a knock retard ecu though.

You can get use to the clutch.

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 20 2010, 01:06 PM

The link extreme has dual inputs for knock and my motor has that dual knock sensors also. It's kinda cool you can monitor the level of knock while its being dynoed on a pop up window and adjust accordingly if needed. I just haven't gotten into that till Monday at the dyno.

Posted by: charliew Jun 20 2010, 01:11 PM

You can probably also set the level of noise it will trigger on then that should be great.

Posted by: Andyrew Jun 20 2010, 01:29 PM

I wouldnt actually tune over 12.5 for WOT...11.5-12.5 is about right, turbo motors like closer to 11.5.

Between 9.0 to 12.5? your probably going to gain another 20-30hp I would think.

Oh and I agree on a full surface clutch.. A strong pressure plate? Yes, Puck clutch? Not on the street, Especially for a v6, just NOT needed in that situation.

Posted by: partwerks Jun 20 2010, 05:06 PM

I'm definitely glad I converted mine over to the EJ20. Nice smooth running engine and gives it whole different personality. Nice when the turbo spools up and the way it pushes it down the road, plus normal oil changes and filters from Wally World, no valve adjustments, under dash heater and 33 mpg.
I think it may even be faster than that 3.6 converion I had.
I gave like $2,300.00 for the engine with all the accessories with 30,000 miles on it from WRX-TX and Sebastian has exceptional service after the sale.

Case closed!

LK

Posted by: DBCooper Jun 20 2010, 05:21 PM

Ha, I've got you beat! Mine's a Craig's List engine, $600 complete including A/C. That's less than the cost of ONE rebuilt Type 4 2.0 head! Probably last longer too, and I THRASH that thing.

Posted by: fat73 Jun 20 2010, 06:00 PM

Same here for the EJ20. I paid a little more for my 2003 EJ20 with all the stuff too and about the same mileage. I have about 25k on my conversion with 0 problems. I wouldn't mind doing the Subaru 6 either but the car is just a hot rod with the EJ20.

Ed

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 20 2010, 06:50 PM

[/quote]
Same here for the EJ20. I paid a little more for my 2003 EJ20 with all the stuff too and about the same mileage. I have about 25k on my conversion with 0 problems. I wouldn't mind doing the Subaru 6 either but the car is just a hot rod with the EJ20.

Ed
[/quote]

You know the subaru 6 EZ30R will bolt right into your renegade mount with no mods right? Thats what i am using.

Posted by: fat73 Jun 20 2010, 08:20 PM

[quote name='budman5201' date='Jun 20 2010, 04:50 PM' post='1333142']
[/quote]
Same here for the EJ20. I paid a little more for my 2003 EJ20 with all the stuff too and about the same mileage. I have about 25k on my conversion with 0 problems. I wouldn't mind doing the Subaru 6 either but the car is just a hot rod with the EJ20.

Ed
[/quote]

You know the subaru 6 EZ30R will bolt right into your renegade mount with no mods right? Thats what i am using.
[/quote]
I wondered about that. It looked like the motor mounts were identical.
Ed

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 21 2010, 11:53 PM

Map is 90 % there! AFR is right on the money, except for a few more load points that will be set at the dyno in 10 hours!! Excited to see the max HP of this baby. I bet it only comes in about 215/220 at the wheels. We will see....

Right now, smooth as silk driving (except for my puck clutch! taking off in first gear )

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 22 2010, 05:45 PM

6 + hours at the dyno, Had to cut it short. $$$$

If we only had more time, we could of played a little more and got some more out of it....


So far we got 206.2 HP and 175.6 Lbs Torque AT the WHEELS!!


This is also with the restrictive 2006 Porsche 2.7 Boxster stock Muffler. Most of the dyno time took tracing down a misfire problem which turned out to be 2 injector plugs that were not fully grabbing the contacts when you plugged them in. VERY frustrating and $$ consuming.


DYNO SHEET ATTACHED TO THIS POST. (look below)


Attached File(s)
 scan0001.pdf ( 211.43k ) Number of downloads: 278

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 22 2010, 06:09 PM

so....better than a ej20 wrx. Nice!

Posted by: fat73 Jun 22 2010, 08:23 PM

video video video....gotta have some sound!

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 24 2010, 12:43 AM

Okay tell me what kind of video u want.....drive by or my son taking a video from passenger seat?

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 24 2010, 12:58 AM

Okay horsepower guys....the guys in new Zealand said they can get a few less ponies but their torque was about 40 lbs higher, can u look at my dyno sheets and see anything that would help me pick up more torque? Stock engine but 2.7 liter boxster muffler

Posted by: GS Guy Jun 24 2010, 05:46 AM

Not too shabby by any means!
I'll take a WAG:
1) is the throttle body opening all the way at WOT?
2) funny dip in the torque curve - guessing something is going on with the exhaust? Possibly primary lengths (diameter?) not optimized for cams/headflow/operating range?
3) Maybe too restrictive on the exhaust? Be interesting to see what a free-er flowing muffler would do, and larger exhaust tubing sizes.
4) Also, is the air filter big enough for the required airflow?

I want to hear that thing winging out at 7K rpm!

Jeff

Posted by: fat73 Jun 24 2010, 06:05 AM

Anything will do...we just want to hear 'er run.
ed

Posted by: Andyrew Jun 24 2010, 11:53 AM

You can lean out your fuel curve 1/2 to 3/4 of a point from 3500-6k. Try getting it to run closer to 12.5.

Asside from that, your muffler might be to restrictive like the others have mentioned. Try simply unbolting it and taking a butt dyno (If you do this, dont lean out your fuel curve....).

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 24 2010, 12:12 PM

Well thats what we thought also, but believe it or not, when we went leaner in those ranges and did a hp pull the hp numbers went down. We then turned around and richened it up and came up with max hp at that AFR.

Okay this is my theory for the next dyno run. I have a K&N huge filter with a 3.0 inch opening also. I'll put that one on. Mine now has a smaller opening and pointing down so i dont have to worry about rain the 3-4 times a year that it hits.

I also am debating using a aftermarket 3.2 Boxster stainless system that I see on ebay. They are about $500 bucks, but i bet i can find one here locally used. Guys are always upgrading their boxsters etc. And the aftermarket ones will bolt right on quick since i brought my exhaust right to the boxster muffler inlets and kept their brackets. A butt dyno without muffler would be WAY too loud for my neighbors, i'll wait for the dyno.


Tonight I'll do a cool video/ sound file but i need my son for it and i am going to wait till later tonight so its not 112 degrees out like it is now. I'll have him on the sidewalk and do a driveby and at least up to 3rd gear full throttle, but thats about it. (already up to 90ish by then)
It does sounds awesome with this muffler at WOT, sorry guys youll have to wait another half a day for it.

Posted by: DBCooper Jun 24 2010, 01:16 PM

Could it be down on power because you're trying to put a German muffler on a Japanese engine... in a German car? And somebody's offended?

Posted by: Andyrew Jun 24 2010, 01:38 PM

Budman, Its not going to be THAT loud.. Your still going to have the exhaust piping to calm it down. Do it at 2pm on a saturday or weekday if you can, Driving at low speeds wont be deffeneing. It'll be loud sure, but you'll be OK.

WOT you'll have to be in the country for though. But you'll be able to get to the country and back without really pissing someone off.. This will tell you if there is something up with that muffler without spending money..


When I did my v8 conversion I used the exhaust that came with it, it had a cat and was pretty small tubing. After swapping that out with a nice dual system I went from about 170hp to ~ 220hp. It was THAT restrictive!

Posted by: charliew Jun 24 2010, 04:20 PM

I have never read of or experienced a quiet muffler that will make the same power output as a freeflowing one. Also as you were saying the air input needs to be large enough to match the cfm requirements of a 3.0 not a 2.0. What is the ID of the throttle body?You can see all the way through the exhaust of a high flowing exhaust, it will just be different size expansion chambers to level the highs.

The 180 of the wrx at the wheels was a awd (4wheels driving) power at the wheels that is using another ring and pinion so it would be higher in just a 2wd rwd application as you saw in the 2.0 you had earlier.

The na motor stock is always engineered for more torque down low to give the best normal use mpg and performance. It won't have a big hp and torque number until it has a cam that flows more air and fuel than stock and also usually will rev higher to flow more air. Try to get the tuning stuff from the aussies and disconnect the muffler and see how that goes and then you will have a target to shoot for.

You can save some money by data logging and tuning more yourself. Be sure to monitor the afr if you do try a more open exhaust as Andrew said. Your motor will get a lot more expensive if it needs new pistons.

Better flowing muffler and more tuning with air intake that is 10% bigger than the tb and it should be as good as it can be.

Also I would have to ask my son but I'm pretty sure his afr's are higher that 12.5 for the na part of his tuning. His intake ports flow about 280 cfm at 420. lift on his 2.5, I would bet the 3.0 will flow 240 stock at 380 400 lift.

I don't really see the muffler causing the torque dip at lower rpms.

Posted by: fat73 Jun 24 2010, 05:19 PM

I used a FLowmaster (for a Camaro - one in two out) for my WRX conversion. It sounds awesome (really deep and throaty and howls when you wind it up), nothing like the Subaru motor normally sounds.

Ed

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 24 2010, 08:08 PM

Cruising Video


oops more suspense, have to load to youtube. mp4 isnt accepted on here.



youtube video!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_aNEWTTgls

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 24 2010, 08:17 PM

MORE Gas pedal!

youtube video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLTLXkQirYM

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 24 2010, 08:18 PM

another with more gas pedal!


youtube video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwGK3EHn4EQ

Posted by: DBCooper Jun 24 2010, 08:36 PM

Cool, sounds just like a Boxster. That's what I expected since the firing order for the two engines are almost the same. Is that the sound you were after?

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 24 2010, 09:02 PM

Yeah i am actually very happy with the sound. future license plate....

73BXSTR

Posted by: DBCooper Jun 25 2010, 09:01 AM

Ha ha! Good one!

So the big question, how is it to drive, compared with the WRX motor? Maybe a little less power/torque right now, but better throttle response?

Posted by: budman5201 Jun 25 2010, 11:38 AM

Yeah throttle response and drivebility are greatly increased. It definitely is not a 4 second to 60 mph car anymore but it still gets there in 5. So very quick. Highway passing is more natural with immediate response and quick. Since this is a 7000 plus rpm motor it is definitely still fun. The stock subaru computer limits it to 6800 which is wierd because top HP wasn't reached to just over 7000 and then started to taper off at the dyno... It seems like the engine that was meant to go in if they did this Porsche again in 2010. Gotta get the puck clutch out of there. That's the only drivebility flaw. Oh and it gets all the performance with pump gas which is very nice. The other one was just too damn tempting to run high boost all the time and that was just a waste of race gas when cruising...

All in all it drives like a new sports car should, If I would closely compare to cars I've rode in.....I would say the 2009 3.2 boxster s, but not with their Cadillac ride quality.