Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: JmuRiz Apr 5 2004, 09:50 PM

I would like to hear some suggestions for a beginner's welder. Preferably one that runs on 110...but if 220 is that much better it's not that big a deal. I am looking for something that is inexpensive and easy to learn with. Any help would be great, thanks!

Posted by: Bleyseng Apr 5 2004, 09:52 PM

Lincoln MIG wire feed with gas. I got mine at Costco for $299 a couple of years ago.

best damn tool I ever got


Geoff

Posted by: Gint Apr 5 2004, 10:01 PM

I'd pop the extra hundred bucks or so for a Hobart 135 or Miller 135. But that's just me. I'm sure the lincoln is a decent unit. And if you think you might end up buying a better (bigger, 220v, etc...) unit later, it would make sense tho save the $$$ up front.

Posted by: Freedom Apr 5 2004, 10:23 PM

i just bought a hobart 135 from a friend in kansas, now all i need to do is go get it and learn... never touched a welder in my life...

Posted by: Gint Apr 5 2004, 10:38 PM

Me either until I bought mine. Check out this thread. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=9063&hl=welder

Posted by: ablose58 Apr 5 2004, 11:26 PM

Depends on what kind of welding you intend on doing . the lincoln and miller are both decent welders for mig but are a little anemic for penetration. for tig i use either my lincoln square wave 300 or my miller buz box w/ a tig torch. Excellent for tig on carbon or stainless steel. AL

Posted by: dinomium Apr 5 2004, 11:30 PM

So good to live never kewl green cars, AL!

Posted by: jkeyzer Apr 5 2004, 11:35 PM

So which is more useful for a beginner setting up his home shop?

A compressor or a welder?

They cost about as much and they are both capable of doing a wide variety of things, depending on how much coin you spend.

Posted by: dinomium Apr 5 2004, 11:38 PM

I bought a good compressor first. I use it ever time I go in the garage! THE best tool in the world is the impact ratchet!!! taking things apart is almost easy (914land!!) and no more raked knuckles!

Posted by: airsix Apr 5 2004, 11:49 PM

I'm with Mike. I love my Hobart Handler 135. Very good quality, easy to use, and I've never needed more power (I've welded up to 5/8" plate with it).

Haynes has a good basic welding book for $13 that will help you get off to a good start.

-Ben M.

ps- get shielding gas. Flux-core sucks unless you're outside in the wind.

Posted by: ablose58 Apr 6 2004, 12:03 AM

Yes flux core sux! hey dino what do you mean? Al

Posted by: campbellcj Apr 6 2004, 12:31 AM

You guys almost have me convinced to join the welder ranks.

I betcha the local schools or community centers even have classes where I could learn not to catch my clothes on fire, and other basic stuff like that

In typical 914 fashion there are probably half a dozen things on my 914 right now that could stand some welding...plus a few honey-doos around the house as well (wrought iron fence repairs for example).

I haven't seen any welders at Costco lately. Any other recommended local sources, Sears maybe?

Posted by: campbellcj Apr 6 2004, 12:36 AM

BTW I agree that air tools rock!

I'm just getting started with them, but already the cut-off and die-grinder are getting a fair amount of use. And an impact wrench for wheel swaps is an unbelieveable back & arm saver (not to mention -time-) compared to hand tools.

I plan to pick up a paint gun and maybe a 3/8" ratchet before too long.

Posted by: lapuwali Apr 6 2004, 01:13 AM

I'll agree on the compressor v. welder thing. Get a compressor first. Air tools are cheaper than electric power tools, so you can have a wider variety w/o spending any more money. You'll never had to depend on a gas station pump to air up your tires again.

As for the welder, remember that most inexpensive wire-feed welders aren't really "MIG" even though they may use that term. MIG requires a shielding gas (argon, usually) to be MIG (Metal Inert Gas). You can weld mild steel w/o gas, but not much else. No stainless, no aluminum. Think about what you plan to use the welder for. If you're going to do structural bodywork (suspension console, longs, etc), then a wire-feed welder is adequate. If you're doing finish bodywork (fenders, other things that will be seen), one disadvantage with MIG is that the welds are very hard (usually much harder than the surrounding metal), which makes grinding them flush a lot more difficult. MIG is pretty easy to learn.

TIG is very expensive (5x what MIG costs), but with training you can weld anything with it. TIG will produce the best looking welds with the least practice.

Gas welding gear is cheap, but it's far and away the hardest to learn to do well.

Posted by: ablose58 Apr 6 2004, 02:45 AM

Tig is relatively inexp. if you buy an ac/dc buzzbox and hook up a weldcraft tig torch to it! however you have no hi-freq start so tig on alum. is out but works most excellent on fenders, any carbon steel and also stainless w\argon shielding gas! AL

Posted by: chunger Apr 6 2004, 05:58 AM

I'm just a hack newbie, but I've been pretty happy with my millermatic 135 w/ gas.



And start trying to "stick" stuff to my car.

Now I have enough tools to get me in trouble. Problem is it's just light enough for me to lug around so I haven't built a cart for it yet. . . like others have. I didn't have 220 so I had to use a 110 unit. I liked the larger Miller though when I got to play at Brad's old shop. It was smoother.


-'Chung


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: sj914 Apr 6 2004, 06:02 AM

Since we are on the subject of welders. Has anyone heard or used a Henrob 2000. It's an oxy/actyl welder, but easier to learn.

The first time I saw it was on American Hotrod.

Posted by: Racer Chris Apr 6 2004, 06:17 AM

I'm going to a Henrob demo today. Their new torch looks very cool.

Posted by: seanery Apr 6 2004, 07:18 AM

For a beginner, the Miller 135 is the way to go.

Chris C. there are several good welding supply places in LA. When my buddy was looking, he found quite a few supply houses. He worked the price back and forth between the two. Look in one of the 12 yellow pages you get there for welding supply or oxygen or gas supply.

Posted by: Brett W Apr 6 2004, 07:30 AM

Go ahead and spring for the new miller squarewave machine. You can't get much better than that and all of your friends will love you. JK go for the miller or the small Lincoln. Make sure you go with all of the accessories to hook up a gas bottle. Leave that flux core for the guys welding their lawnmowers. You may want to go ahead and get the 220.

Posted by: JmuRiz Apr 6 2004, 07:34 AM

Thanks for all the info, guess I'll either have to start saving my pennies or just hit some of my local guys up to borrow theirs...or learn on theirs.

Posted by: Lawrence Apr 6 2004, 09:26 AM

Do what I did...

Go to your local rental shops, and ask when they're going to sell their rental units. Every couple of years, they replace their rentals.

I picked one up cheap, and haven't had a problem with it in over 4 years.

-Rusty

Posted by: Neal Apr 6 2004, 09:46 AM

I just visited my local welding shop who gladly set up a Lincoln 110 in the back and had me welding in minutes, it had the gas bottle attached. They recommended the MillerMatic 135 which is a 110 welder or the Hobart which I think is also made by Miller. I would get a 2 stage air compressor first then the welder. The Miller is about $635 without the Gas bottle (I live in Seattle Washington) at the Welding store I visited. I have a 2 stage 80 gallon Ingersol Rand compressor which I plumbed in my shop, it is VERY useful !

Posted by: seanery Apr 6 2004, 09:52 AM

Hobart is owned by Miller, but they aren't built the same. The Miller uses copper windings, the Hobart uses aluminum. My local dealer also told me that the warranty on the Miller surpasses the Hobart's as well.

If you want to buy it once, buy a Miller. If you want to get in cheap and don't mind replacing it down the road sometime get the Hobart.

Posted by: crash914 Apr 6 2004, 10:16 AM

Guys.....

Lincoln is the official welder of NASCAR......

If you want, they have classes cheap. Cheaper if you have a nascar license.

Miller has the best books and training materials.

Got a lincoln 135, wish it had better heat adjustments....it just has, a,b,c,d.....

herb

Posted by: airsix Apr 6 2004, 10:53 AM

Well there you have it. Miller or Hobart it is.

Miller. The official welder of people who don't have mullets. (Just kidding, Herb)

-Ben M.

Posted by: crash914 Apr 6 2004, 10:59 AM

Hey, I don't have enough hair to have a mullett....

Although the local hockey team had a mullet night where they gave away 9000 mullets.....missed it....we did have 4 guys show up at work the next day with one though......cool....herb

Posted by: sj914 Apr 6 2004, 05:33 PM

Saw some video clips at one of their distributors sites, looks cool. The guy makes it look so easy.

Posted by: Racer Chris Apr 10 2004, 02:02 AM

That's what I thought at the demo too.

Actually I think the Henrob torch would be somewhat easier to use than the old style oxy-acetylene torches. The pistol grip handle is easier to handle, and the tip isn't as far from your hand which means more control.
I've never welded aluminum with gas but doing it with the Henrob 2000 looked like a breeze with 1/16" stock. Using (expensive) cobalt blue glasses eliminated the orange color that comes from the flux burning. That made it real easy to see the weld, whereas the orange totally interferes with good vision using standard green glasses.
It cuts steel real easy with very low pressure gas settings. The kit has 2 different cutting tips - one for sheet and one for plate. They both are basically dragged on the surface which makes things easier. The kerf is narrower than with most torches and made nice accurate cuts easily. I think the kit also includes a roller setup but that wasn't demonstrated.
There were some clear advantages over plasma cutting, such as: the small tip means access to tighter locations, intricate shapes are easier due to improved visibility of the tip, no real dark glasses required.
The rep also welded a bit of cast iron easily, using real cast iron filler. It looked much better than any of the methods I've used in the past.
The rep didn't demo stainless welding for me, but showed a piece he had done earlier & it didn't look too bad. Not as good a TIG though.
One thing it doesn't have is a rosebud tip for heating, which I find handy on a regular basis.
I think this equipment would be a very good idea for an all-around welding setup where access to electricity is limited and a variety of tasks is expected.
At a price tag of approximately $400, plus the cost of regulators and gas it isn't exactly cheap. On the other hand it clearly has the ability to nearly replace several pieces of electric arc welding (TIG,MIG,Plasma) equipment which would add up to several thousand dollars.
The biggest limitation is that it still only cuts steel, and a plasma will cut nearly any metal. I used to even use a plasma to cut titanium for one customer's work. Also welding very thick metal would generate a lot of heat which would be hard on the hands, etc.
It's certainly something to consider if portability is needed. I think it is a much better choice for craftsmen than the typical oxy-acetylene outfits even at twice the cost.

Posted by: sj914 Apr 10 2004, 02:46 AM

Here's the link to the video clips that demos some of the stuff you saw. it includes stainless steel welding.

http://www.cut-like-plasma.com/info_video_library.htm

Posted by: campbellcj Apr 10 2004, 10:07 AM

Not having welded anything in my life before, what are the odds I could become "productive" on small jobs (like dzus fastener plates etc) right away if I went and picked up a welder today, for instance??? Is the learning curve steep enough where I should stay the hell away from the teener for a while?

I'm not looking at anything "structural" at this point...

Posted by: ! Apr 10 2004, 10:23 AM

Yeah....cutting the roof of a rusty 356 AND adding HP is not a good idea...Frank is gonna get a tube frame....so this is a timely thread.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: cary Apr 10 2004, 02:10 PM

.02c ................ Just don't by the Craftsmen. I've just about worn mine out. Hobart or the Lincoln.

Nothing less than 135. Anything less, the duty cycle is too short. The machine stops and you have to wait 10 minutes for it to come back to life.

BTDT ........................

Plus, get a cart ................ place for wire, helmet, clamps, wire bushes, hammers, etc.