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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ External Oil Cooler
Posted by: tradisrad Jun 22 2010, 11:03 AM
I am going to install my 25 row Earls oil cooler over the 4th of july and I am looking for some more ideas, tip and tricks.
I plan on using a wafer adapter to keep my filter in the stock location. I will also install a thermostat and a fan. I will most likely mount it under the rear trunk.
I'd like to see some pictures of what others have done. Experinces on the wafer adapter vs relocating the oil filter and what thermostats are being used. I've seen the Pelican Article.
thanks
-Rob
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jun 22 2010, 11:52 AM
Cooler under left side of trunk. I have a very low airdam in the front with not much air going under car, so installed a scoop in the left rocker panel with a 3 inch duct for the cooler. Got rid of the Home Depot cowl and fabbed one out of sheet metal. I also used the sandwich plate adapter. The one I used has a thermostat built in.
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Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jun 22 2010, 11:54 AM
more pics
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Posted by: pcar916 Jun 22 2010, 12:28 PM
I am going to install my 25 row Earls oil cooler over the 4th of july and I am looking for some more ideas, tip and tricks.
I plan on using a wafer adapter to keep my filter in the stock location. I will also install a thermostat and a fan. I will most likely mount it under the rear trunk.
I'd like to see some pictures of what others have done. Experinces on the wafer adapter vs relocating the oil filter and what thermostats are being used. I've seen the Pelican Article.
thanks
-Rob
What engine? Is this the small filter behind cylinder #6, the stock filter on a six, or are we talkin' a four cylinder car? Perhaps there's something useful here in any event. As you can see the 993 doesn't have a console mounted cooler like earlier motors. Instead there's a small filter there. Mocal thermostat...
Note: I took off the fan BTW. It cools just fine by convection.
Note: This is an auxiliary cooler. The main cooler is front mounted. The original Earl's cooler (above) sprung a leak (7 yrs later) so I replaced it with a B&N cooler with slightly better BTU removal.
More light...
I'm about to add a transaxle oil cooler behind this one in a couple of weeks so I'll have to add a fan to do them both. I've used -10 plumbing. The trans cooler will use -8. Hope that helps.
Good Luck!
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jun 22 2010, 01:05 PM
Pics of under the trunk cooler...
Hey Elliot, I am going to be installing a cooler similar to yours. Where did you get the rocker panel duct, and what kind of difference did you see in oil temps?
Zach
Posted by: Joe Ricard Jun 22 2010, 01:13 PM
I don't think I have any pictures but my 2316-210 cooled just fine from a full flow -10 hosed routed to the back where I had a 2nd gen RX-7 cooler.
Since I ran a Tangerine exhaust there was a big open spot behind the transmission. Cooler had the internal thermostate and never got above 200 even beating the snot out of it at the track in the summer.
I DO NOT like the sandwhich method of routing to an oil cooler. Only getting a small percentage of oil gets cooled. Plus getting a short enough filter to get by the clutch cable / speedo cable is a pain.
Posted by: rwilner Jun 22 2010, 02:01 PM
The PO of my car installed a front-mounted oil cooler. I have the sandwich plate thermostat. All components are mocal. i don't have heat in the car, and aux oil cooler lines run to the front trunk through where passenger-side heat tubing would be.
i was going to take the oil cooler out as i've been assured the stock oil cooler is sufficient, but i decided to just drive it as-is for awhile. Well, the car runs very cool. I have never seen my oil temp gauge deflect more than 5 degrees, and my temp compensated CHT gauge never gets above 300 deg F, and that's 5th gear on the highway during an 80 degree day.
I decided i'm keeping the oil cooler and i'll just install heat on the driver side. Maybe someday i'll reroute the oil lines so i can get the pass plumbing hooked up too.
I think an aux oil cooler is a great mod that's short money and really reduces the heat cycle stress on our aircooled engines.
i'll snap some pics later on tonight to show you the install.
Posted by: rwilner Jun 22 2010, 02:02 PM
Plus getting a short enough filter to get by the clutch cable / speedo cable is a pain.
i have a mocal sandwich plate and the standard mahle filters fit just fine
Posted by: tradisrad Jun 22 2010, 03:23 PM
my engine is a 4 cyl 2056. I was told by Rich at HPH that the new Mahle filters are shorter than they used to be and they fit better with a sandwich adapter.
thanks for the replies and keep 'em comming
Posted by: Ferg Jun 22 2010, 03:42 PM
I've done this twice, works "ok" for street, but if you plan on track or bigger motor I'd do front.
Orange car I went maybe one size too small on the cooler 9 row maybe? Ducting was for mock up made a small difference. 
Plate adapter with built in thermo, everything was ordered through BAT.
Ferg
Posted by: pcar916 Jun 22 2010, 03:44 PM
...
I DO NOT like the sandwhich method of routing to an oil cooler. Only getting a small percentage of oil gets cooled. Plus getting a short enough filter to get by the clutch cable / speedo cable is a pain.
that the sandwich solution should not be the primary cooler. Some of them even raise your oil pressure a smidge. But an auxiliary cooler it makes a 15 degree-F difference in my temps. I have a truly big cooler up front that works just fine most of the time. If I were still in San Francisco it would be fine for everywhere but the track. But in the deep south summer temps are brutal, especially in the city for a street car.That sandwich cooler is cooling liquid oil rather than the oil-foam cooled by the front cooler... more effective heat transfer.
Posted by: mightyohm Jun 22 2010, 05:05 PM
What is the alternative to a sandwich adapter?
I have a sandwich adapter on my car and have been trying to figure out where to relocate my aux cooler as well. Rear fender well is ineffective. Watching this thread for ideas.
Posted by: Dominic Jun 22 2010, 05:17 PM
This is a picture of my oil cooler set-up, it's a large Setrab cooler with a pull through fan designed as the primary oil cooler for my car. This is for a 4 cyl car with the CFR header that exits on the opposite side so no hot exhaust below this cooler, I am still working on ducting some cool air to the top of the cooler.
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Posted by: zx-niner Jun 22 2010, 10:08 PM
Here's my set-up: Full flow oil, remote filter, by-pass thermostat and simple oil cooler. It all sits on the right side of the transmission since the left side is taken up by the Tangerine exhaust. It's only for street use but I've never seen the oil temperature exceed 2/3 scale on the gauge. That was on a 90+ degree day, stop & go traffic. It's never exceeded half-scale under full load pulling steep hills on the same 90 degree day. The next step would be to add a draw through fan if I needed to. Normally the oil temp gauge runs well below the middle.
Posted by: campbellcj Jun 22 2010, 11:29 PM
Here is my front cooler setup, built for hot climate track use. The fab work was done by Ottos years ago and it has worked beautifully. Obviously the top shroud piece (cover) is removed in some of the pics. I was fixing a broken rivnut inside the enclosure.
Front intake - fairly large. I do not have a pic of the exit underneath, but it is sizable.
Here is the actual cooler, which I purchased from Mazdaspeed Motorsports (used to be MazdaComp) as it fit the dimensions of the Ottos shrouding. Various other companies make similar units of course.
The thermostat is a Troutman but I don't see a pic handy of that. Here is what the setup looks like from above when all put together. As you can see it occupies a significant portion of the trunk. This works for me since I used that Patrick/FuelSafe cell in the stock location vs. a cell on the trunk floor:
Posted by: tradisrad Jun 23 2010, 07:36 AM
zx-niner, wow that is clean. Talk to me a bit about your full flow system. I was toying with this idea, but I don't know much about it.
Where is you filter mounted? Looks like it is attached to the head; what remote mount did you use? and did you use the CB performance oil thermostat?
You guys have a lot of nice looking oil cooling systems. Thanks for sharing I am getting a good picture of what I need to do.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jun 23 2010, 07:49 AM
Those of you that went to a full flow system, how did you do it? I am planning on just using a sandwich adapter...
Zach
Posted by: carr914 Jun 23 2010, 10:56 AM
a REAL GT Cooler
a Replica GT Cooler
the Replica GT Cooler under a RX-7 
Posted by: carr914 Jun 23 2010, 11:05 AM
Here is a shroud I made for a front cooler (didn't have much room up there with the fuel cell)
On my newest car I will use the GT Shroud
Here is the 993 Oil Console that someone else mentioned and where it mounts to replace the stock Oil Cooler on a -6 ( This Console can be used on other 6 cylinder motors besides the 993)
Posted by: azbill Jun 23 2010, 05:51 PM
This is a picture of my oil cooler set-up, it's a large Setrab cooler with a pull through fan designed as the primary oil cooler for my car. This is for a 4 cyl car with the CFR header that exits on the opposite side so no hot exhaust below this cooler, I am still working on ducting some cool air to the top of the cooler.
I have the same set-up on a 2056. The cooler works great on the streets in the Arizona heat (110F) oil temp about 220F
Bill
Posted by: tradisrad Jun 24 2010, 07:40 AM
Can anyone fill me in on going to a full flow oil system?
Posted by: campbellcj Jun 24 2010, 07:54 AM
Can anyone fill me in on going to a full flow oil system?
For a -4 or -6?
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jun 24 2010, 07:55 AM
For a 4
Posted by: tradisrad Jun 24 2010, 08:46 AM
For a 4
thanks..
Posted by: rwilner Jun 29 2010, 08:02 AM
A member on club was/is selling their ride on ebay, and they had this pic of a very nicely installed front-mounted oil cooler. Not sure if it's full flow or not.
Here's the listing (no affiliation):
http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=214924
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jun 29 2010, 09:59 AM
I don't have pics, but I installed a 96-plate with an electric fan. it dropped my temps >20 degrees!
Posted by: jhadler Jun 29 2010, 01:05 PM
I don't have pics, but I installed a 96-plate with an electric fan. it dropped my temps >20 degrees!
Where did you place the cooler?
-Josh2
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jun 29 2010, 02:36 PM
near the tranny, but, unlike the one above(post #10) I didn't mount it parallel to the trunk, it's at an angle to let more oil stay in the cooler and to let more air above it... the back bracket is lower... I'll try to remember to snap some pics
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jun 29 2010, 05:45 PM
went out and snapped a couple pics... 
Posted by: tradisrad Jun 30 2010, 08:28 AM
I am getting clooser to installing my oil cooler. I am now gathering my last few parts and am wondering if those with a fan on the cooler are using a tempature switch to turn the fan on? And what switch is being used?
I don't want to put a switch on the dash or even worry about turning the fan on. So a switch that is controlled by the oil temp is what I am looking for.
The pelican article list several switched, but after aquick web search the switched no longer seem to be avaliable.
thanks
-Rob
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jun 30 2010, 09:10 AM
I am getting clooser to installing my oil cooler. I am now gathering my last few parts and am wondering if those with a fan on the cooler are using a tempature switch to turn the fan on? And what switch is being used?
I don't want to put a switch on the dash or even worry about turning the fan on. So a switch that is controlled by the oil temp is what I am looking for.
The pelican article list several switched, but after aquick web search the switched no longer seem to be avaliable.
thanks
-Rob
I went switched, not thermostat. 1 less thing to fail... where I am only in the coldest weather would you want it turned off... so it just stays on... I put the switch in the engine bay. if the car is running, the fan is on... I didn't want it to try and cool oil that is already too hot. and a thermostat is one more thing to fail.
Posted by: brp986s Jun 30 2010, 10:08 AM
Elephant sells an adjustable fan switch (160 to 200 F). In use here on a 3.2. This car a factory -6 that I didn't want to hack up. This is just a street car so cooling requirements are not so high. Seems to do well. Temp measurements using an infrared thermometer are erratic, but there seems to be 20F difference in vs out.
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Posted by: tat2dphreak Jun 30 2010, 10:21 AM
I like that mounting, but don't you lose the raintray?
Posted by: brp986s Jun 30 2010, 10:25 AM
No rain tray on a factory 6.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jun 30 2010, 10:49 AM
No rain tray on a factory 6.
duh, I knew that. idk what I was thinking.
Posted by: naro914 Jun 30 2010, 12:02 PM
For Papa Smurf, we have the cooler mounted to the floor in the front trunk, with the air coming in the front bumper, through the shroud, through the cooler.
Pros and cons -
Pro - the air is heated AFTER it is leaving the front compartment space, so the shroud, and hence the front trunk, do not get hot.
Con - In effect, as in any 914 GT cooling set up, you are forcing hot air under the front of the car creating lift - exactly opposite of what you want in a race car. I have really started to notice the lack of downforce I have. For a street car, no big deal, but for a race car....not good.
I am considering moving this cooler set up to Huey (street car) so the front trunk area does not get so hot. For Papa Smurf, I am thinking of putting a normal front mounted cooler, and ducting into the wheel wells (similar to how a 911 cooling works)
this set up works really well. Engine is a high compression 2.2 with 200+/- hp, redlines at 7300 rpm. Both Nadine and I have driven it on the hottest days at the track, back to back runs, and temp never got above 200.
Pics:
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Posted by: tomeric914 Jun 30 2010, 01:44 PM
EDIT #1: Added picture and filter part number
EDIT #2: This location works great for a four cylinder car. However, putting even the biggest cooler (12" x 11" Setrab for example) under the trunk will work for around town when running a 3.0 six, but not so much at the track.
I've used the Derale Atomic Cool on 2 different application mounted next to the transmission with excellent results. There was at least a 20 deg drop in oil temperature if not more. What's nice is that the kit comes with a temperature switch.
I use the relay to enable the fan off of the + side of the coil. Main power for the fan comes direct from the battery with a waterproof fuse holder.
The sandwich adapter has a simple bimetallic spring that allows oil to flow once it reaches 180F. I also modified the oil filter mount to eliminate the spring loaded ball (so oil doesn't bypass through it due to the increased pressure drop of the oil cooler) and use a Baldwin B228 filter with an internal relief. It is the same length as stock, but a smaller diameter to clear the engine bar. (Save your breath, yes the filter has less area than the factory filter. It is more than sufficient for regular oil changes 
)
Here's the parts list from my Summit order:
QTY 2 - Fitting, Hose End, AQP Socketless, Straight, -8 AN Hose Barb to Male 3/8 in. NPT, Brass, Natural, Each
Part Number: AER-FBM1206
QTY 1 - Fitting, Hose End, AQP Socketless, 90 Degree, -8 AN Hose Barb to Female -8 AN, Aluminum, Red/Blue, Each
Part Number: AER-FBM1533
QTY 1 - Fitting, Hose End, AQP Socketless, 120 Degree, -8 AN Hose Barb to Female -8 AN, Aluminum, Red/Blue, Each
Part Number: AER-FBM1543
QTY 1 - Hose, AQP Socketless, Rubber, Blue, -8 AN, 10 ft. Length, Each
Part Number: AER-FCV0810
QTY 1 - Temperature Controlled Sandwich Adapter, Oil Filter, Sandwich, Aluminum, Natural, 3/4-16 in. Thread, 3/8 in. NPT Inlet/Outlet, Each
Part Number: DER-15702
QTY 1 - Derale Cooling Products Atomic-Cool Remote Fan Mounted Fluid Cooler, Tube-Fin Type, Aluminum, 9.375 in. x 12.75 in. x 4.313 in., -8 AN Inlet, Outlet
Part Number: DER-15950
QTY 1 - Relay, Starter/General Use, 30 Amp, Single Pole, Each
Part Number: VIA-80237
Posted by: tradisrad Jul 11 2010, 10:21 AM
Oil cooler is installed. I mounted it under the rear trunk, ran the cooler lines through the engine compartment, added a thermostaticly controlled fan.
I am able to keep my oil temps down around 180 to 190 with the fan running. I pulled the fan fuse and noticed the temps climb into the 210 range. I am pleased with the outcome.
Oil cooler:
Lines passing into the engine compartment:
Mocal adapter:
My next part of the project will be to add a small LED in the oil temp gauge to indicate when the fan is on. But it may be a while....
Posted by: BigD9146gt Jul 11 2010, 12:10 PM
Heres a hardline setup I made for a 912E... The customer wanted the stock front mount 911 oil cooler setup. Used a Mocal sandwich thermostat.
Posted by: realred914 Jul 11 2010, 12:32 PM
I dont like the idea of dumping hot air from tehoil cooler back in to the engine bay, that adds hot air to the cooling system and air intake. the idea is to dump the heat from the oil outside of the engine bay. Not put it back into the engine.
Posted by: DanT Jul 11 2010, 01:09 PM
that is very nice 
Posted by: gothspeed Jul 12 2010, 11:22 AM
Heres a hardline setup I made for a 912E... The customer wanted the stock front mount 911 oil cooler setup. Used a Mocal sandwich thermostat.
That is one of the best looking setups I have seen on a 4 cylinder
!!!I am building a carbed 2.0 4 cylinder GT replica and want to run a small 'front' oil cooler between the bumper and valence to 'complete' the GT look (yes even though it is a 4 cylinder) and would love to have a setup like this!!!
What size thread is that thermostat you used?
Posted by: BigD9146gt Jul 12 2010, 12:09 PM
What size thread is that thermostat you used?
It was the Mocal BSP thread, which I drilled and re-tapped to an M22x1.5, just the right amount of material to get away with it. I used the early/small 911/9146 case fittings. The tubing is all 22mm (.875) OD.
Posted by: jhadler Jul 12 2010, 01:45 PM
Elephant sells an adjustable fan switch (160 to 200 F). In use here on a 3.2. This car a factory -6 that I didn't want to hack up. This is just a street car so cooling requirements are not so high. Seems to do well. Temp measurements using an infrared thermometer are erratic, but there seems to be 20F difference in vs out.
I like this setup from a convenience and compactness standpoint.
What would people think about cutting some sheet metal away and ducting the waste air from the cooler directly down and under the motor with a shroud?
-Josh2
Posted by: tradisrad Jul 12 2010, 02:00 PM
Elephant sells an adjustable fan switch (160 to 200 F). In use here on a 3.2. This car a factory -6 that I didn't want to hack up. This is just a street car so cooling requirements are not so high. Seems to do well. Temp measurements using an infrared thermometer are erratic, but there seems to be 20F difference in vs out.
I like this setup from a convenience and compactness standpoint.
What would people think about cutting some sheet metal away and ducting the waste air from the cooler directly down and under the motor with a shroud?
-Josh2
I think the important part is to make sure that hot air is not going into the combustion chamber, so ducting it out the bottom should be ok.
Posted by: brp986s Jul 12 2010, 02:32 PM
The fan is exiting up here. The fan is 20% less efficient in push-mode according to the manufacturer. Until I learned that I considered ducting down and using that air as input to the heat exchangers since the engine came with block-offs. I balked at the cost of custom HE's and just run MSDS headers. Don't need heat in So Cal anyhow.
Posted by: tradisrad Jul 15 2010, 07:46 AM
a little follow up:
Before I installed the oil cooler I was seeing engine temps climb into and past the 220 degree mark on my commute home. Yesterday afternoon I had my first commute with the oil cooler and my oil temps never climbed more than a needle width above 180 degrees. I am seeing a 40 degree difference!
It seems that the oil takes a little longer to heat up to operating tempratures and my over all oil pressure is higher with the cooler oil temps.
now I am wondering if my oil pressure is too high. My gauge is pegged at 80psi until I reach the 180 temps then I see 60+ psi on the freeway at 3400 rpm. Idle oil pressure is 20psi. I am thinking of playing with the relief springs to see if I can drop it a little. I've got the long relief valve and stiff spring at the first by pass and I don't remember what spring plunget I have at the rear bypass.
I guess my question on this post is do I need to lower my oil pressure or am I ok? Also does one of the oil by-passes controll over all oil pressuse or do they work togeather? Am I worried about noting?
thanks
-Rob
Posted by: ME733 Jul 15 2010, 03:47 PM
a little follow up:
Before I installed the oil cooler I was seeing engine temps climb into and past the 220 degree mark on my commute home. Yesterday afternoon I had my first commute with the oil cooler and my oil temps never climbed more than a needle width above 180 degrees. I am seeing a 40 degree difference!
It seems that the oil takes a little longer to heat up to operating tempratures and my over all oil pressure is higher with the cooler oil temps.
now I am wondering if my oil pressure is too high. My gauge is pegged at 80psi until I reach the 180 temps then I see 60+ psi on the freeway at 3400 rpm. Idle oil pressure is 20psi. I am thinking of playing with the relief springs to see if I can drop it a little. I've got the long relief valve and stiff spring at the first by pass and I don't remember what spring plunget I have at the rear bypass.
I guess my question on this post is do I need to lower my oil pressure or am I ok? Also does one of the oil by-passes controll over all oil pressuse or do they work togeather? Am I worried about noting?
thanks
-Rob
..............I think you are not going to fine tune your oil system and get a much better result than you already have....The general rule of thumb is 10 psi of oil pressure for every 1000 RPM,s. Having 20 psi at idle with the engine hot is fine. The high side of 80 psi ...until temps reach 180 + is good also. keeps you from hammering on it until the engine is hot...a good thing.(at 3400 rpm) you have 60 psi.....your just a little high at this rpm but nothing to worry about at all....as your rpm,s reach 5000 I,m betting you do not have 100 psi., probably only 60-70. I think its far more important to have good idle oil pressure, as the engine sees a lot of time there., and you don't want it low., and if the TEMPERATURES get really hot (ambient air) the CRANKCASE expands and oil thins out dropping PSI....I think you are good to go as is.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 18 2010, 10:30 AM
I finished my Setrab with fans last night, under the rear trunk. Took it for a quick spin, no leaks, and the fans were working when I got home.
Going to take it for a longer drive this afternoon - one that had my oil temps at 240 earlier in the summer. Hopefully, now they will be at 220 or lower, given everyone elses experiences - and 220 is fine.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 18 2010, 01:36 PM
It was 93 during my 30 mile test. Prior oil temps were around 240 on ~85 degree days. Today I kept RPM between 3500 and 4500 to make sure the oil would get hot.
The oil never got over 200 today!!! 40 degrees difference.
Posted by: jaxdream Jul 18 2010, 06:20 PM
It was 93 during my 30 mile test. Prior oil temps were around 240 on ~85 degree days. Today I kept RPM between 3500 and 4500 to make sure the oil would get hot.
The oil never got over 200 today!!! 40 degrees difference.
Now show us some pics , please .Jack / Jaxdream
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 18 2010, 07:08 PM
I'll take some tomorrow.
This is the cooler that I am using (the bigger one with 2 fans):
I was SUPER impressed with the difference in oil temps today. I fully expected to be running at 220, and that would have been good. I was amazed to see myself running no higher then 205 or so, especially on a hot day.
Zach
Posted by: tradisrad Jul 19 2010, 09:30 AM
I'll take some tomorrow.
This is the cooler that I am using (the bigger one with 2 fans):
I was SUPER impressed with the difference in oil temps today. I fully expected to be running at 220, and that would have been good. I was amazed to see myself running no higher then 205 or so, especially on a hot day.
Zach
Very cool... it seems like you are having similar results to mine. I would like to see how you routed the hoses and what you did for a thermostat. We need pictures.
-Rob
Posted by: maf914 Jul 20 2010, 02:46 PM
I'll take some tomorrow.
This is the cooler that I am using (the bigger one with 2 fans):
I was SUPER impressed with the difference in oil temps today. I fully expected to be running at 220, and that would have been good. I was amazed to see myself running no higher then 205 or so, especially on a hot day.
Zach
Zach, Please don't forget to post some photos of your installation. I want to see that dual fan cooler in place. Thanks.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 20 2010, 09:22 PM
I will. Grad school classes started up again this week, and this time the class I am taking is a good 70 miles one way from my house, and it is a 3 hour and 45 minute class - after work. Its only 2 days a week, but on those 2 days I don't get home till 11pm. The other days my wife is in classes and I am watching my son. Chances are I will not be able to get pictures until Friday. But I will get them and post them.
Zach
Posted by: woodst Jul 21 2010, 02:07 PM
Very impressive installations shown here.
I wonder if I should consider an additional cooler too.
I am building a 2336 engine and intended to use as many stock parts as possible, so the engine seems to be "original" when you look at it.
But will the original oil cooler be able to handle the bigger engine?
I don't get into racing or 2hr rides - just for fun on the street. Ambient temp uses to be 25 to 32°C in summer.
Do I have to install a setup similat to those presented here???
Cheers!
Malte
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 21 2010, 06:58 PM
Malte, I would.
Zach
Posted by: qa1142 Jul 22 2010, 04:10 PM
What size is the oil filter thread? 18 x 1.5? 20 x 1.5? 22 x 1.5? ![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: McMark Jul 22 2010, 04:22 PM
3/4" x 16
Posted by: qa1142 Jul 22 2010, 08:03 PM
So this?
http://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/25770/10002/-1
or
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/51712/10002/-1
or
http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/23693/10002/-1
Thoughts and inputs?
Posted by: qa1142 Jul 22 2010, 08:06 PM
With this kit...
http://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/15950/10002/-1
Can I get Setrab anywhere close to this? If so where?
Thanks
Posted by: McMark Jul 22 2010, 09:02 PM
Those adapters will all work, but space is tight, both in relation to the engine parts (oil cooler) and the engine mount bar. The second adapter may put the filter down too low, and I don't like the built in thermostat.
I've bought Setrab parts from http://www.livermoreperformance.com/oil_coolers.html#setrab. The 119 cooler is the one I've used a few times and it's $160 from them.
Posted by: qa1142 Jul 22 2010, 09:11 PM
Those adapters will all work, but space is tight, both in relation to the engine parts (oil cooler) and the engine mount bar. The second adapter may put the filter down too low, and I don't like the built in thermostat.
I've bought Setrab parts from http://www.livermoreperformance.com/oil_coolers.html#setrab. The 119 cooler is the one I've used a few times and it's $160 from them.
yes but $110 more $272 with the fan... are Setrab that much better than Derale if I am just running on street with some autoX?
Posted by: McMark Jul 22 2010, 09:22 PM
I have no qualitative analysis. I simply respect the construction quality of the Setrab. Derale may make great coolers, I have no idea.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 23 2010, 06:58 AM
I'll put pics of mine up tonight. Going to be stupid hot this afternoon (100 and humid - ick) but its going to be the only night this week that I am kidless since Wife and Child are going to the fair.
my issue with this kind of set up:
in the rear of the car is that you get very little airflow back there to start with. With the cooler set parallel to the rear trunk floor, you are going to get even less. When I did mine, I set it perpendicular to the rear trunk floor to make use of all the air going under the car, and it also has fans. You could not do that with a square unit - not enough ground clearance.
With the fans installed, and the mounting kit, the Setrab cooler that Aircooled.net sells is 13" long, 6" wide and 6" deep. Even so, I still had an interesting time finding some place to mount it the way I wanted it mounted.
All told, I spent about $700 on mine including the thermostat, sandwich adapter, fan switch, cooler with fans, 10 ft of AN-8 hose, AN-8 fittings, and the tooling I needed to make the hoses since I was starting from scratch. it was not a cheap project. However, I am getting 20degrees more cooling out of my set up then the folks who did a parallel mount with a square cooler. In my case where I was seeing oil temps ~240, and can now drive all over and never see higher then ~205 when I am really on it, thats huge and i feel the money was well spent.
YMMV
Zach
Posted by: qa1142 Jul 23 2010, 09:39 AM
waiting for the pictures 
Posted by: tradisrad Jul 25 2010, 05:09 PM
I added an LED to my oil temp gauge to indicate when the oil cooler fan is on. I drilled the led hole a bit low and the light clips the top of the "220", but I don't think it looks too bad (for having limited tools and doing it by hand).
The needle is capable of clearing the LED if it ever gets that hot and it is hard to see when it is off. I also added a variable resistor the the back of the gauge so I can controll the brightness of the LED. Now my oil cooler project is done. 
since the oil temps are not getting too hot my oil pressure is staying high. This next picture is on the freeway at 3k rpm. I have been told that the pressure is good and I should be happy, but I guess I need something to worry about because I think it's a bit too high.
Posted by: qa1142 Jul 25 2010, 05:26 PM
that's nice
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 25 2010, 06:31 PM
Here is a QUICK picture of my setup.
I was chaing the oil in my wife's car, and the 914 was next to it, so I just rolled over and snapped a quick one of the cooler location. Its a cell phone pic. To show more I have to have time to put the car up in the air. I am going to move it slightly to add a little more room away from teh rear suspension, but the general location will not change.
Zach
Zach
Posted by: qa1142 Jul 25 2010, 06:37 PM
Zach
With it mounted like that, do you really need the fans?
that is a 16x6 unit right?
thanks for the picture
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 25 2010, 06:43 PM
Yes, I felt I needed the fans. I was told by a lot of folks (on World and locally) that I would not get enough airflow w/o fans. The fans keep the air moving through the cooler, and it works very well.
Is a 12inch by 6 inch unit. With the fans and the mounting brackets, its 12" long, 7" tall and 6" deep. I am not sure that I needed the brackets with how I mounted it, but the bracket kit came with rubber isolators to I used them.
Zach
Posted by: JimN73 Jul 27 2010, 09:43 PM
Does anyone know how hot it gets in the area above the transmission, say on a 90 degree day? If there's not a lot of air moving, it might get pretty warm. Hard to dissipate a lot of heat from the oil if the area is hot.
Posted by: JimN73 Jul 29 2010, 04:07 PM
My request for more info got buried in a busy day, I'm reposting
thanks,
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jul 29 2010, 05:51 PM
Fans only help when you're sitting idle in traffic. Whey you are moving, they restrict the flow of air.
Posted by: McMark Jul 29 2010, 08:11 PM
I'm not so sure about the fans-restrict-airflow. Seems to me that the cooler itself is a far greater restriction than an idle fan could ever be. You can easily imagine a pressure differential between the inlet and outlet sides of a cooler. But can you really say that a non-powered fan would restrict air flow?
I don't buy it.
Posted by: tomeric914 Jul 29 2010, 10:24 PM
Fans only help when you're sitting idle in traffic. Whey you are moving, they restrict the flow of air.
If a cooler was mounted on the vehicle in such a way that air would flow through it when the vehicle was moving, the airflow would rotate the fans. They will not be a restriction.
Posted by: bugsy0 Sep 1 2010, 10:15 AM
Yes, I felt I needed the fans. I was told by a lot of folks (on World and locally) that I would not get enough airflow w/o fans. The fans keep the air moving through the cooler, and it works very well.
Is a 12inch by 6 inch unit. With the fans and the mounting brackets, its 12" long, 7" tall and 6" deep. I am not sure that I needed the brackets with how I mounted it, but the bracket kit came with rubber isolators to I used them.
Zach
Is a vertical mount like this too exposed to the elements? Water and road debris will ruin the electric fan motor and heat exchanger, no? I don't drive in the rain unless I get caught, but I do drive on gravel and am concerned about dirt kicked up by the front wheels. Front mount requires cutting up my car. Are there better alternatives? I'd like to use the Setrab dual fan unit (16"x6"x6") or a Derale (11"x12"x4"). The Derale would have to be mounted parallel to the trunk floor which is not optimal imo.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Sep 1 2010, 10:21 AM
Well, lots of cars use electric fans on radiators and they are driven daily in all manner or weather and conditions. I am not worried. I bet the bearings will fail before the motors do.
Posted by: realred914 Sep 1 2010, 10:23 AM
Yes, I felt I needed the fans. I was told by a lot of folks (on World and locally) that I would not get enough airflow w/o fans. The fans keep the air moving through the cooler, and it works very well.
Is a 12inch by 6 inch unit. With the fans and the mounting brackets, its 12" long, 7" tall and 6" deep. I am not sure that I needed the brackets with how I mounted it, but the bracket kit came with rubber isolators to I used them.
Zach
Is a vertical mount like this too exposed to the elements? Water and road debris will ruin the electric fan motor and heat exchanger, no? I don't drive in the rain unless I get caught, but I do drive on gravel and am concerned about dirt kicked up by the front wheels. Front mount requires cutting up my car. Are there better alternatives? I'd like to use the Setrab dual fan unit (16"x6"x6") or a Derale (11"x12"x4"). The Derale would have to be mounted parallel to the trunk floor which is not optimal imo.
bottm line is tradisrads mounted his 72 plate cooler horizontally a couple inches below the trunk floor. his oil was at nearly 220F prior to that, with the cooler he got a slight reduction in temps, when teh fan kicked on he sees about 180F oil temps.
###this tell me the fan makes a significant cooling contribution
###this tells me the cooler can be mounted horizontally and give a significatn cooling contribution (and it is out of the way of many road debries)
###this tells me the cooler works fine even in the reported low air flow and high temps found above thre transmission.
bottom line is this system works great. no need to risk debries damage by hanging hte cooler down low in the slip stream. no need to run cooler up front.
this is plenty of cooling for a big bore 2 liter motor.
costs: my 96 plate cooler with fan attached cost $170 from Bugformance, this is the Empi brand cooler.
the Hyaden andwich adaptor with built in thermostat cost about $40 (use the Hayden 205 part number) the Derale thermostate switch for fan about $45, and the hose was $9 a foot for AN 10
all told it was about $350 for my install. could have saved about $100 if I had used regular hose and barbed fitting (the barbed fittins come with the cooler and sandwich adaptors)
so you could potnetially do it for about $250.
Posted by: bugsy0 Sep 1 2010, 10:41 AM
Yep - I might just be over-thinking it a bit - everything's a trade-off I guess
Posted by: bugsy0 Sep 1 2010, 11:28 AM
realred914 - so what I hear you saying is I can get effective cooling using a horizontally mounted unit - eliminates much of the risk of damage from debris. sounds good - thanks.
now can I get away w/ a horizontal mount and no fan to make it even simpler?
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Sep 1 2010, 06:51 PM
now can I get away w/ a horizontal mount and no fan to make it even simpler?
In short, no.
The long answer is a little more complicated.
With a oil cooler you are adding more oil. Natural convection will provide SOME cooling without a fan, since you are putting a big heat sink in the line. But what you are doing is giving yourself more time before your oil heat soaks and you eventually build up to nearly the same temps that you were seeing pre-cooler. If you don't do a lot of long drives, this may be perfectly fine. If your OTs were only marginally high to begin with, the extra surface area may be enough to get you back into the safe zone- especially if you keep your drives to about 40 miles or shorter on hot days.
But, IMHO, unless you are willing to put your cooler in the nose of the car, you need a fan, or you need cool air ducted directly to the cooler, like what Elliot did.
Zach
Posted by: realred914 Sep 2 2010, 08:09 AM
realred914 - so what I hear you saying is I can get effective cooling using a horizontally mounted unit - eliminates much of the risk of damage from debris. sounds good - thanks.
now can I get away w/ a horizontal mount and no fan to make it even simpler?
we found the fan is needed on extended drvies to get to the target temp of 180F. without the fan, we'd hit near 200F -210F an improvement over no cooler, but not good enough. just follow tradisrads project on this post, he has photos of the set up above the transmission, 72 plate cooler with a six inch fan.
stay cool!
Posted by: bandjoey Sep 2 2010, 02:36 PM
Ok. It looks hip to have lots of chrome and stuff hanging off of the motor and for a big motor understandable that more cooling is needed than factory.
For a stock non air conditioned 1.8 daily driver, why an oil cooler??? Didn't the factory put enough oil cooler on the car?
Posted by: Mark Henry Sep 2 2010, 03:03 PM
Ok. It looks hip to have lots of chrome and stuff hanging off of the motor and for a big motor understandable that more cooling is needed than factory.
For a stock non air conditioned 1.8 daily driver, why an oil cooler??? Didn't the factory put enough oil cooler on the car?
You don't need one, unless you do AX/track.
Posted by: brant Sep 18 2010, 10:52 AM
finally doing my install today of the atomic derale.
anyone have pictures of how they routed the oil lines from the cooler to the sandwhich adapter...
I have heat exchangers and also J tubes....
not a lot of room up there left to put stuff into
- I hate running against the exhaust (heat the oil worse)
- on the other hand, I could squeeze by the valve covers, but future valve adjustments will be impossible or at least harder.
- I'm considering cutting through the tin and into the engine bay, but don't know where to come back down at to clear everything and hit the sandwhich.
- Since the swing arm needs space, I was avoiding it all together, but maybe I can go over it? and then come back from the front?
any pictures of routing from folks (especially with stock heat exhchangers, and the stock -4 engine bar) would be great!
brant
Posted by: tradisrad Sep 18 2010, 01:23 PM
Brant, I hope this will help. Let me know if I can take any other pictures. It a bit of a tight fit, but I thought it was better than running the line next to the exhaust and valve cover. Also there is a "high" point in the lines so the cooler wont drain all of its oil.
-Rob
Posted by: brant Sep 18 2010, 01:58 PM
awesome
thanks Rob!
nice job
brant
Posted by: qa1142 Sep 18 2010, 04:59 PM
Very smart hose routing 
Any pictures near sandwich adapter?
Posted by: qa1142 Sep 18 2010, 05:01 PM
Very smart hose routing
Any pictures near sandwich adapter?
Posted by: tradisrad Sep 18 2010, 05:13 PM
Very smart hose routing
Any pictures near sandwich adapter?
Back on page two there is a picture of the sandwich adapter and the hoses going up into the engine compartment.
Posted by: qa1142 Sep 18 2010, 05:18 PM
I purchased blue hose to do my install with, I like your cloth covered hose better
Matches rest of injection hose better, where did you get that?
Posted by: tradisrad Sep 18 2010, 07:59 PM
The hose is Nylon Braided AN Hose. This hose size is AN10 and was about $10 a foot and I used 8 or 9 feet. I got it local to me at Gotelli Speed Shop. I bet it is available just about any where.
I know that High Performance House has the real Porsche oil hoses; I am using that for my breather hose.. wonder if I could have used it for my oil cooler? it can be seen in one of my pictures it is lighter in color.
Posted by: qa1142 Sep 18 2010, 08:17 PM
$3.20 a foot
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/102231/10002/-1
Posted by: tomeric914 Sep 18 2010, 09:07 PM
Brant, I PM'd you some pictures.
Routing the lines through the sheet metal, while clean, is risky even with grommets on all of the sheet metal passages.
Running next to the valve cover is less of a risk (in my opinion) and easier to inspect and/or replace the hoses. They are also plenty far away from the exhaust. The hoses easily pull out of the way to pull the valve covers and adjust the valves.
The hoses are tie wrapped together making them stiff yet not to require any additional support yet flexible enough to allow for movement and expansion.
The picture below is from 2 years ago when I first installed the cooler. The car has since been driven about 10,000 miles and multiple track events with no oil issues.
Posted by: tradisrad Sep 19 2010, 11:10 AM
Brant, I PM'd you some pictures.
Routing the lines through the sheet metal, while clean, is risky even with grommets on all of the sheet metal passages.
Running next to the valve cover is less of a risk (in my opinion) and easier to inspect and/or replace the hoses. They are also plenty far away from the exhaust. The hoses easily pull out of the way to pull the valve covers and adjust the valves.
The hoses are tie wrapped together making them stiff yet not to require any additional support yet flexible enough to allow for movement and expansion.
The picture below is from 2 years ago when I first installed the cooler. The car has since been driven about 10,000 miles and multiple track events with no oil issues.
That is simple and you wont have any rubbing issues with the hose going through the sheet metal, but you don't have heat exchangers and you have more room to work. I am not sure there is a right or wrong way and with preventative maintenance any routing will work.
Posted by: tomeric914 Sep 19 2010, 01:48 PM
That is simple and you wont have any rubbing issues with the hose going through the sheet metal, but you don't have heat exchangers and you have more room to work. I am not sure there is a right or wrong way and with preventative maintenance any routing will work.
I agree, heat exchangers will add to the complexity. Your installation is slick!
I also installed a remote cooler on a car with heat exchangers the same way mine is installed but don't have any pics.
Posted by: rdauenhauer Dec 14 2010, 06:18 PM
I recently started down this same path and the first place I went to research was the "Lapuwali Classic Thread Forum"
Specifically I was hoping to find a description/diagrams and pro/cos for the various solutions: Sandwich to nose, to trunk floor, Full flow (?), other setup ..ect.
But there is no OIL LINE/COOLER INSTALLATION thread there presently
Sooo.... I nominate this one!
It would be nice to merge other Oil related upgrade threads into this one , example:
I recall another thread that detail tapping the case below the OE cooler and required clearancing of motor mount brkt ? What about filter relocation ?
Deep sump, tuna can & dry sump perhaps can go into a separate thread?
What do you think 
Posted by: McMark Dec 14 2010, 10:22 PM
Great idea! Done! 
Posted by: realred914 Dec 15 2010, 12:23 PM
I recently started down this same path and the first place I went to research was the "Lapuwali Classic Thread Forum"
Specifically I was hoping to find a description/diagrams and pro/cos for the various solutions: Sandwich to nose, to trunk floor, Full flow (?), other setup ..ect.
But there is no OIL LINE/COOLER INSTALLATION thread there presently
Sooo.... I nominate this one!
It would be nice to merge other Oil related upgrade threads into this one , example:
I recall another thread that detail tapping the case below the OE cooler and required clearancing of motor mount brkt ? What about filter relocation ?
Deep sump, tuna can & dry sump perhaps can go into a separate thread?
What do you think
filter location can be an issue with the sandwhich adaptor used in tradisrads installation. thermostat equiped sandwhich adaptors are kind of tall, and that lowers the oil filter. the stock sized OEM filter is now out of production, but there is a shorter version that is now sold , that will give more clearance with the sandwhich adaptor in place.
for me I will be likely going full flow off the oil filter mounting bracket point on the case. will have two hoses there in and out, then run a remote High Pressure filter and follow that with a plate type cooler simular if not the same as tradisrads. along with an electric fan.
to answer the other question, Yes even stock cars can benifit from an oil cooler, these cars even when new could run hot.
hot climate steep hills can cause oil to get beyond my confmort range (180F is nice, 200 F is hot, and above 220 F it is a probelm as oil pressure wil start to drop (viscosity lowers) beyond this point.
you can see these temps on a hot day.
new oxygenated fuels cause our cars to run hotter (lean burn) since are ecu can not adjust for it (cars with an O2 sensor can adjust and with carbs, you can re-jet)
add that many engiens may have been rebuilt with less than optimal compression, and other engines have dirty cooling fins, and you can get even more high temps.
so yes a stock motor can usually benifit from an external oil cooler. if you see high temps above 220F, then you shoudl consider it (make sure rest of cooling system is in good shape first!)
Posted by: tradisrad Dec 15 2010, 12:26 PM
Rich, I like your idea.
-Rob
Posted by: realred914 Dec 15 2010, 12:27 PM
Rich, I like your idea.
-Rob
what idea is that????
Posted by: 396 May 16 2011, 09:19 PM
Heres a hardline setup I made for a 912E... The customer wanted the stock front mount 911 oil cooler setup. Used a Mocal sandwich thermostat.
Very coool...what's the cost?
Thanks!
Posted by: cwpeden Jan 13 2013, 12:37 AM
hiii there ...
My leak began as a nothing leak. I thought it was just from running the air conditioner and within 2 weeks I had huge puddles under my car.......
.....................................................
http://www.alladsclassified.com
Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 13 2013, 12:39 AM
It's spam. Just to get the link in the sig indexed.
Hopefully the post and the spammer will both be gone soon.
--DD
Posted by: barefoot Mar 26 2013, 10:24 AM
Do any of these systems incorporate in- line check valves in the lines to or from the cooler ?
I just bought 76 that is fitted with ex cooler and has check valve in line, not sure why needed (or if needed).
Comments ?
Posted by: maf914 Mar 26 2013, 01:51 PM
Do any of these systems incorporate in- line check valves in the lines to or from the cooler ?
I just bought 76 that is fitted with ex cooler and has check valve in line, not sure why needed (or if needed).
Comments ?
I would guess that the installer wanted to keep the oil in the external cooler and piping from draining back into the crankcase, resulting in a high oil level in the engine.
I have wondered about that occurring if the cooler is higher than the normal crankcase oil level. Is that an issue or problem?
Posted by: Harpo Mar 26 2013, 02:04 PM
Instead of the sandwich adapters I have seen an adapter that replaces the OE oil cooler. I don't remember where I saw it though. Basically it was a plate that had AN fitting that bolted replacing the cooler
David
Posted by: barefoot Mar 26 2013, 03:45 PM
Do any of these systems incorporate in- line check valves in the lines to or from the cooler ?
I just bought 76 that is fitted with ex cooler and has check valve in line, not sure why needed (or if needed).
Comments ?
I would guess that the installer wanted to keep the oil in the external cooler and piping from draining back into the crankcase, resulting in a high oil level in the engine.
I have wondered about that occurring if the cooler is higher than the normal crankcase oil level. Is that an issue or problem?
The cooler is presently mounted vertically to the underside of the rear trunk, so at about same level as sump. I just got car and it isn't running, but I'd like to reposition the cooler in the right rear fender well as I have air scoops into that area and it's then further from exhaust piping.
Posted by: IGTARD Dec 11 2013, 07:05 PM
International Space Station experiencing possible over heating. 
Posted by: tumamilhem Dec 12 2013, 07:57 AM
I'm glad for this thread. I want to install a second oil cooler on my LE, but because it's an LE, I don't want to chop it up. Any add-ons I do I am trying to do without performing surgery to its originality. So basically looking to just bolt on.
My other 914 has a second large oil cooler that is simply bolted to the floor pan underneath the car right before the engine bay opening. Being underneath the car it gets constant surrounding air, so there's no fan. This simple setup has worked fine for this car but I am not sure what the best placement would be for optimal functionality and protection.
Also, I'm not really sure what the best oil cooler to get would be. being in Florida I have very hot temperatures and drive my car year round. So I would like a larger cooler with optimal performance to help protect the duration of my engine and give me better performance. Also, if I need a fan a/o thermostat. I suppose living in Florida it's best to have the cooler operating whenever the car is on instead of just when it hits a certain temperature. Also I'm not familiar with this sandwich method that doesn't seem to be very popular.
From your expert opinions, what kind of oil cooler would you suggest I get? Where would you suggest I place it and how given my limitations of not chopping up my car? I did like the idea of it being turned at an angle underneath the trunk. Will this actually make it cooler by catching more air and having more oil in the cooler? And would it get enough air underneath the trunk? Also do I need a fan and thermostat? Any better suggestions than what I already have on my other 914 which is basically just a large cooler bolted underneath the floor pan forward from the rear wheels? Suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks!
Posted by: JmuRiz Dec 12 2013, 09:24 AM
I'm glad for this thread. I want to install a second oil cooler on my LE, but because it's an LE, I don't want to chop it up. Any add-ons I do I am trying to do without performing surgery to its originality. So basically looking to just bolt on.
My other 914 has a second large oil cooler that is simply bolted to the floor pan underneath the car right before the engine bay opening. Being underneath the car it gets constant surrounding air, so there's no fan. This simple setup has worked fine for this car but I am not sure what the best placement would be for optimal functionality and protection.
Also, I'm not really sure what the best oil cooler to get would be. being in Florida I have very hot temperatures and drive my car year round. So I would like a larger cooler with optimal performance to help protect the duration of my engine and give me better performance. Also, if I need a fan a/o thermostat. I suppose living in Florida it's best to have the cooler operating whenever the car is on instead of just when it hits a certain temperature. Also I'm not familiar with this sandwich method that doesn't seem to be very popular.
From your expert opinions, what kind of oil cooler would you suggest I get? Where would you suggest I place it and how given my limitations of not chopping up my car? I did like the idea of it being turned at an angle underneath the trunk. Will this actually make it cooler by catching more air and having more oil in the cooler? And would it get enough air underneath the trunk? Also do I need a fan and thermostat? Any better suggestions than what I already have on my other 914 which is basically just a large cooler bolted underneath the floor pan forward from the rear wheels? Suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks!
I had one under the trunk floor in my 2.0 with carbs. Worked like a champ, but mine had a manual one/off switch for the fan. A cleaner install would be to use a thermostatic switch to have the fan come on automatically when the temp get to the set point. I just used a sandwich plate at the oil filter to run to/from the cooler. Bolted to the trunk floor with rubber spacers to get the spacing and isolate from vibration.
But, you could always make a bracket to bolt to the transmission mount to eliminate a couple of holes in the trunk.
I still have the cooler/fan/lines in my parts bin.
I'm doing something similar but with larger cooling capacity in my /6 conversion.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Randal Dec 12 2013, 10:46 AM
Re post #87: Nice installation, but be careful with that cloth braided line. Anywhere it rubs it will fray and then fail, especially if there is any pressure in the lines.
Posted by: stugray Dec 12 2013, 06:11 PM
I have one I might be willing to part with almost identical to the pic with thermostat switch.
It would be minus the sandwich adapter plate as I am going to use that.
Posted by: gothspeed Dec 12 2013, 06:44 PM
Instead of the sandwich adapters I have seen an adapter that replaces the OE oil cooler. I don't remember where I saw it though. Basically it was a plate that had AN fitting that bolted replacing the cooler
David
Is this the setup you are thinking of?
http://www.autoatlanta.com/Porsche-914-Oil-Cooler-srch.html
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 13 2013, 09:05 AM
Instead of the sandwich adapters I have seen an adapter that replaces the OE oil cooler. I don't remember where I saw it though. Basically it was a plate that had AN fitting that bolted replacing the cooler
David
I have a batch of adapter plates for the cooler location sitting in a box here.
I also have some inline thermostats, and some block-off-plates for the tin.
I've been trying to find time to complete a kit which includes premade hoses between the adapter and the thermostat, with options for either a front or a rear mounted cooler.
Posted by: gothspeed Dec 13 2013, 11:54 AM
Instead of the sandwich adapters I have seen an adapter that replaces the OE oil cooler. I don't remember where I saw it though. Basically it was a plate that had AN fitting that bolted replacing the cooler
David
I have a batch of adapter plates for the cooler location sitting in a box here.
I also have some inline thermostats, and some block-off-plates for the tin.
I've been trying to find time to complete a kit which includes premade hoses between the adapter and the thermostat, with options for either a front or a rear mounted cooler.
That is a good idea ........ is tapping the oil cooler location better for the oil pressure, than the oil filter sandwich? Or is there no difference? ...
Posted by: vw505 Dec 13 2013, 12:13 PM
Chris would it block the stock cooler?
Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 13 2013, 01:41 PM
Chris would it block he stock cooler?
It eliminates the stock cooler.
The air normally supplied to the cooler becomes available for improved cooling of cyls 3 & 4.
Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 13 2013, 01:52 PM
Instead of the sandwich adapters I have seen an adapter that replaces the OE oil cooler. I don't remember where I saw it though. Basically it was a plate that had AN fitting that bolted replacing the cooler
David
I have a batch of adapter plates for the cooler location sitting in a box here.
I also have some inline thermostats, and some block-off-plates for the tin.
I've been trying to find time to complete a kit which includes premade hoses between the adapter and the thermostat, with options for either a front or a rear mounted cooler.
That is a good idea ........ is tapping the oil cooler location better for the oil pressure than the oil filter sandwich? Or is there no difference? ...
I think its much better - for several reasons including improved oil pressure.
1) Added load on the filter circuit increases the likelihood that oil will bypass the filter unless the bypass valve is blocked.
2) A sandwich plate adds complexity (& drag) to the oil circuit - lowering the available pressure to the bearings.
3) The oil cooler inlet and outlet are already there on the block.
4) The stock filter mounted on a sandwich plate hangs down to where its hard to get past the engine crossbar.
5) More cooling air available for cyls 3&4
6) The stock cooler is inefficient in the stock location. Its adequate for stock engines but not so much for higher power rebuilds.
7) etc.
Posted by: gothspeed Dec 13 2013, 05:06 PM
Cool ........ can this 'cooler delete/external cooler add' retrofit be installable with the engine in place?
Posted by: ClayPerrine Dec 14 2013, 08:35 AM
Cool ........ can this 'cooler delete/external cooler add' retrofit be installable with the engine in place?
Yes ..... http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=26033
Just install the adapter after the cooler has been removed, and cover the hole in the tin when you have the cooler out.
Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 14 2013, 08:52 AM
The remote cooler adapter can be installed that way but the rest of the project is not that simple.
The warmup flaps need to be completely removed and the new sheet metal blanking plate installed on top of the stock cooler tin piece.
I think the shroud needs to be pulled forward or the cyl 3/4 top tin removed.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Dec 14 2013, 08:59 AM
The remote cooler adapter can be installed that way but the rest of the project is not that simple.
The warmup flaps need to be completely removed and the new sheet metal blanking plate installed on top of the stock cooler tin piece.
I think the shroud needs to be pulled forward or the cyl 3/4 top tin removed.
Chris,
Why not make a cap that fits where the rubber seal between the oil cooler and tin is connected? Then just disconnect the cable on the warmup flaps to insure they don't close.
Posted by: stugray Dec 14 2013, 03:50 PM
Chris - any chance you have a block off plate for where the oil filter bracket goes?
So I could route to a remote oil filter bracket?
I wanted to use the sandwich adapter that I already have, but my plumbing to the front oil coolers is 12AN. The sandwich plate that I have does not have enough space between the fittings for 2X 12AN.
So I either need to come off the adapter plate with the 3/8" fittings to a remote adapter, or I need to replace the filter bracket with a plate that has 1/2" NPT fittings (3/8" NPT would work if they were far enough apart to use the 3/8"X1/2" reducer fittings).
I could go the "ful flow" pump route (probably drop the engine) or the cooler block off, but I actually wanted to keep the stock oil cooler so If I add a thermostat to the plumbing to the front coolers, I still have some cooling until the thermostat kicks in.
That way racing in cold(er) weather will not engage the front coolers until the whole system is warmed up.
Posted by: Dave_Darling Dec 14 2013, 04:56 PM
Summit shows a whole bunch of sandwich adaptors with 1/2" NPT fittings, or even larger in some cases.
--DD
Posted by: stugray Dec 14 2013, 05:43 PM
Thank you! - that will work!
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-22-545/overview/
Posted by: gothspeed Dec 14 2013, 05:48 PM
Chris - any chance you have a block off plate for where the oil filter bracket goes?
So I could route to a remote oil filter bracket?
I wanted to use the sandwich adapter that I already have, but my plumbing to the front oil coolers is 12AN. The sandwich plate that I have does not have enough space between the fittings for 2X 12AN.
So I either need to come off the adapter plate with the 3/8" fittings to a remote adapter, or I need to replace the filter bracket with a plate that has 1/2" NPT fittings (3/8" NPT would work if they were far enough apart to use the 3/8"X1/2" reducer fittings).
I could go the "ful flow" pump route (probably drop the engine) or the cooler block off, but I actually wanted to keep the stock oil cooler so If I add a thermostat to the plumbing to the front coolers, I still have some cooling until the thermostat kicks in.
That way racing in cold(er) weather will not engage the front coolers until the whole system is warmed up.
............ however I believe this oil circuit diagram for the type 4 ....... may help make a decision on where the 'additional' or 'replacement' oil cooler should be placed in the circuit ..... P.S. I got this diagram from another site (link below, it was a changing GIF), so someone please confirm that this circuit reflects our type 4 engine case.
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FAQ.html
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Posted by: stugray Dec 14 2013, 05:53 PM
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=217063
Posted by: gothspeed Dec 14 2013, 06:03 PM
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=217063
I guess this is an ongoing discussion .....
According to this pic (re-posted below) in your thread link .... the pic I posted (above) appears correct ....
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Posted by: gothspeed Dec 14 2013, 09:01 PM
Looks like Jonsey already makes a nice billet type 4 'oil cooler delete' / 'external oil cooler add' interface plate with gaskets and 3/8" NPT thread for fittings .....
Now all one needs to do, is decide how one is going to modify the flap / tin where the stock oil cooler was .....
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=783355
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Posted by: stugray Dec 19 2013, 06:46 PM
So I recieved the sandwich adapter plate in the link above from Summit and it fits perfectly.
There is room for the 2X 1/2NPT - 12 AN adapters and then the 12 AN straight fittings with plenty of room to work with the fittings.
I have the whole thing with filter hanging on my mockup (spare case half) and I am concerned with the weight of the assembly.
The cast stock oil filter adapter looks beefy enough to handle it, but the threaded pipe where the oil filter threads on looks like the weak link to me.
I think I will need to build a support bracket that supports the weight for any "four offs" that might occur.
Pics to follow.
Posted by: barefoot Jul 28 2021, 07:35 AM
Small cooler located in inlet ahead of rear wheel. Easy hose routing not near any hot parts. mock-up shots shown
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