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Posted by: jsayre914 Jul 7 2010, 04:20 PM

if you were following my exhaust leak thread, i purchased a brand new bursch and hooked it up to my stainless heats drove the krap out of the car, drove every day in the rain sleet snow 105 degree weather etc. pulled the motor and dropped the next motor in and drove the crap out of it some more. Then i noticed a hole the size of a softball in the muffler and the pipes are all corroded to hell. In 1 year

So when i purchase a new bursch and it looks oh so bueatifull on day one. We all know the paint comes off on day 5. Then one month it is solid brown color. and 1 year later it is trash

What can i do to the exhaust before i install??

powder coat
ceramic coat
high heat paint
etc.

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 7 2010, 04:30 PM

Put it on a shelf in your living room ...


The Bursch is notorious for rusting away in a very short time. You could try to have a new one ceramic-coated. That might buy you a year or two ...
Andy

Posted by: zymurgist Jul 7 2010, 04:30 PM

I would think that cutting off the muffler, ceramic coating the pipes/flanges, and installing a stainless muffler would be the way to go.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jul 7 2010, 04:41 PM

Blast it to bare metal and paint with POR-20 Exhaust Manifold Grey.

Posted by: J P Stein Jul 7 2010, 04:44 PM

*Blast it to bare metal*, coat with hi heat stove paint, recoat every year.
I've had cheep assed Bursch headers on the shitbox for 12 years.....and still going strong.

* that black shit they paint it with is horrible crap....it's *all* gotta go.

Posted by: charliew Jul 7 2010, 04:52 PM

Send it to china and get a ss version made and it will outlast you. I guess there are not enough needed but that would be the best way to go. Chinese suby headers are as good as you can expect any to be.

I have blasted vw bug headers and sprayed them with eastwoods ss paint and cured them and they held up good. The trick is to not do short startups and leave moisture in the inside of the tubes. My Dad used to drill a 1/8 hole in the bottom of his mufflers to drain moisture out of them but the trick is to keep the water burned out.

I had some real expensive fiero 6 headers creamic coated but I also wrapped them and probably ruined them. They are still solid but I bet the wrap killed the metal from heat. I don't know what bursch cost but maybe you should just copy them in ss.

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 7 2010, 05:02 PM

http://jet-hot.com/
They did my headers on my plane and they were still good 10 yr's later when I sold it.

Posted by: Krieger914 Jul 7 2010, 05:17 PM

I cereamic coated my bursch 9 years ago. Still in great shape. What kind of driving do you do? Do you drive short distances in your moist climate never really letting the muffler heat up and dry out moisture? The moisture may be collecting and pooling. My wife does short distance driving. In anticipation of a rusted out muffler, I drilled an 1/8 hole on the lowest point of her muffler on her brand NEW car...14 years and 92k miles later. Still completely intact and no issues

Posted by: jsayre914 Jul 7 2010, 05:38 PM

I drive the car every day rain snow sun, and usually for periods of one hour at a time at full throttle, on a 1.8 thats not very fast and i work on the car every day. i never thought to drill a hole in the exhaust.

i am one of those "die hard 914 drivers"

Posted by: r_towle Jul 7 2010, 05:59 PM

cut off the muffler and weld on a flange to the header.
Send that off to jet coat and get it coated...or like Eric/JP said...paint it yearly.
Buy a magnaflow short muffler....weld a flange on the end.
The muffler will be about 20-30 dollars (I get them at autozone)
I have had to replace my last one at 10 years....but I dont drive asmuch anymore.

Rich

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 7 2010, 06:22 PM

pull it. Cut the bad muffler off, weld on a flange at my place, then have the pipes blasted and coated inside and out.

With a flange, you can bolt on new mufflers easy when they rust out, or get SS mufflers and be good to go for a long time. With the piped ceramic coated in and out, they will probably never rust again.

Of course, that will cost as much as a new Bursch - but it may be the last one you have to buy.

Zach

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jul 7 2010, 06:30 PM

I've had POR-20 on my 911 exhaust for 7 years with no re-paint. Looks like it did the day I had it squirted.

Posted by: kg6dxn Jul 7 2010, 07:56 PM

If you use a 24k gold plating it will never corrode. You will need to make it a quick release so you can take it with you when you leave the car.

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 7 2010, 09:46 PM

I never liked their mufflers, but I have Bursch headers that are Jet-Hot coated and have worked well for >5 years so far.

Posted by: thomasotten Jul 7 2010, 11:57 PM

I had mine Jet Hot coated. So far no rust, but a small leak on the seam.

Posted by: JmuRiz Jul 8 2010, 08:09 AM

Woah, that's one good looking Bursch!!!

Posted by: realred914 Jul 8 2010, 10:22 AM

accesories plus in belmont calif. does a very nice job of ceramic coating, they can do both inside and outside, very tought coating, have it on my van.

cheap way is cans of BBQ paint and re-touch up twice a year, but the inside may still rust.

Posted by: jsayre914 Jul 8 2010, 05:58 PM

how much did that cost to do, and was it just on the outside?? they didnt coat the chrome did they??

i like

Posted by: nsr-jamie Jul 9 2010, 08:59 AM

Yes, me too...I want to know how much did that cost? It looks great and I am just about to redo my old Bursch muffler too like you

Posted by: Sleepin Jul 9 2010, 10:23 AM

Posted by: BigDBass Jul 9 2010, 10:33 AM

I'd like to get an idea of pricing as well.

Try searching google maps in your area for "exhaust coating" or "performance coating" or the like.

That's how I found a shop nearby (lo-ko.com) that does this. They are presently blasting & powdercoating some spare heat tubes and air intake box for me so I can evaluate their work and service. May have them ceramic coat my SSI HE's and/or Bursch depending on how that goes. That reminds me: They're supposed to have the stuff back to me today.

Posted by: jsayre914 Jul 9 2010, 10:51 AM

i just tried that, thanks for the tip...

they said it would be close to 200.00 bucks with a 2 1/2 week turnaround. They dont even do it in house. (probaly send it to jet hot)

i will call jet hot next

Posted by: zymurgist Jul 9 2010, 01:48 PM

Why? They'll probably outlive your car already. Just curious.

Posted by: BigDBass Jul 9 2010, 02:21 PM

Haven't decided, but main benefit I had in mind was to keep the heat moving through it rather than heating it. But while I typed that it dawned on me that that could keep clean air from being heated for heat/defrost purposes, eh!?

Posted by: thomasotten Jul 10 2010, 05:33 AM

I think I spent like $150 or so to have it Jet hot coated including shipping. But you need to start with a fairly new muffler. Someone asked about the chrome tip. I think they just blasted the chrome off and coated the whole thing.

More pics here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=74866&hl=muffler

Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Jul 10 2010, 09:00 AM

Hmmmmmmmm....I have a Bursch that's been on my car since 1989 (showed it to Jeff Thursday).

Posted by: jsayre914 Jul 11 2010, 10:02 PM

who's jeff


joe

Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Jul 11 2010, 10:07 PM

Jeff...Joe...same thing.

Posted by: zymurgist Jul 12 2010, 04:40 AM

Just one of those short J-names... it should be easy to remember, Keith.

Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Jul 12 2010, 08:22 AM

Kent,

Thanks,
Keith

Posted by: 9146986 Jul 12 2010, 11:40 AM

I guess someone could make a smart ass remark about name problems and Jeff's (Joe's) establishment???

Back on topic, I've found the Jet-Hot coating to be about as good as it gets. Expensive but good!

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jul 13 2010, 08:48 PM

MSDS inc. uses a local metallic ceramic contractor with great success rate on the QC and life of the coatings. Thoroughly blasted, heated, coated (inside and outside), heated once again, cured and then burnished for that awesome satin silver look. All of this for approx 1/2 the price of jethot. Call me at 818-507-6937 or PM for a quote on your system...sorry I can't do rusted thru or 18 gauge exhaust systems (most off-shore types)...just too thin
Marty

Posted by: jsayre914 Jul 22 2010, 10:58 AM

You spent 150 bucks back in august 2007. GREAT DEAL

I just got a quote from Gus Gusler @ jethot

Outside Only

Sterling silver 4cyl bursch including strip charge and shipping one way...

... $304.00

then add the cost of my new bursch 250.00....

tatall
$554.00


no thanks

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 22 2010, 12:12 PM

Joe, take the exhaust to Broadway Auto Parts in Red Lion. Have him bead blast it. I can't remember their machinists name, but he is a very nice guy, and very reasonably priced per hour. He will also tell you up front if he thinks it is too far gone to bring back. Bring it to my place and we will cut off the holed muffler and weld on a flange, and then paint it with some high temp BBQ paint. On a freshly blasted and cleaned surface, the paint should work great.

At that point, we can add whatever new muffler you want to add, and change it as need be.

Posted by: jsayre914 Jul 22 2010, 12:38 PM

thanks zach

only one thing i forgot to mention.

I'm sitting right next to my brand new Bursch I want to treat it before. the install

Posted by: realred914 Jul 22 2010, 12:53 PM

ceramic coating inside and out is great, Accessories Plus in Belmont Calif. (650 591-2400) does a real nice job at it, local for me, no shipping.

Posted by: Lavanaut Jul 22 2010, 03:22 PM

Yeah Jet-Hot is crazy expensive. Like Kleenex to tissues, they seem to have managed to make their name synonymous with ceramic coating, but at the end of the day they're just one option. I had a set of HEs done locally, ceramic, for about half what JetHot quoted me, and they came out just as nice (I've done both). Temperature resistance and warranties were similar.

Reid

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 22 2010, 05:38 PM

If you have a new one, still have it bead blasted at Broadway to remove all the cheap paint. Then repaint with high temp grill paint - following the instructions for prep. Prep it well, and it will last.

Zach

Posted by: jsayre914 Aug 5 2010, 11:23 AM

dropped my brand new exhaust off to the local powdercoater Tue Morning. I will have the before and after picture shortly.

Posted by: ONTHEGRIND Aug 5 2010, 11:31 AM

Sandblast

Base coat and turbo x inside3 and out

Bake

Enjoy

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Aug 5 2010, 12:44 PM

The guys near you are going to just powder coat the exhaust, or ceramic coat it? I don't think that regular powder will stand up to exhaust temps, though ceramic will. I had mine ceramic coated.

Zach

Posted by: jsayre914 Aug 5 2010, 01:25 PM

They said they have HIGH HEAT powder. and the selection goes from like 40 colors down to about 5.

They said they use it all the time.

How hot does the exhaust get anyway??

Now you got me scared....

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Aug 5 2010, 04:42 PM

Don't be scared. I don't know shit about powder coating!

If the pros say they have high heat powder, I am sure that they do. And if it fails after a month, you can take it back and tell them to fix it. I would not be worried.

Zach

Posted by: jsayre914 Aug 7 2010, 06:33 PM

I just got my exhaust back from the powdercoater

Sorry i cant get a better picture, today has been very busy, and i only took 1 pic, now i am on my way to the driveway for the install.

joe is taking the teener to work sunday morning

here is the brand new bursch, before. It does look pretty in the the picture, but dont let looks fool you


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Posted by: jsayre914 Aug 7 2010, 06:33 PM

here it is powdered and ready.....


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Posted by: Vacca Rabite Aug 7 2010, 08:52 PM

Looks bitch'n.

Let us know how the high temp powder holds!

Zach

Posted by: scotty b Aug 7 2010, 09:09 PM

Speaking in the third peson eh ? Scotty stopped by to see Joe last week, but Joe was on vacation. Scotty got lost in Md. Scotty found the wrong side of town. BTW The store cat looked

Posted by: jsayre914 Aug 7 2010, 09:11 PM

I cant believe you stopped by the one vacation i get in 365 days......



...

call me next time

Posted by: scotty b Aug 7 2010, 09:23 PM

I did...you didn't answer..............ungrateful bastard

Posted by: jsayre914 Aug 8 2010, 09:10 PM

Well after the drive in and the drive home, and a lot of fumes

I am pretty sure most of the paint is gone now, and whattever is left is a bubbly mess



Are there anymore #%!@# smileys to express my anger and frustration??

I will call the guy in the morning, and i will take a pic for you guys.

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Aug 9 2010, 06:03 AM

Oh that sucks!

give this guy a call. He is just south of Harrisburg, and is the guy I used to ceramic coat my headers (which have held up perfectly). He is a nice guy and used to race 914s (or used to work on 914s that raced, can't remember).

http://www.papowderworks.com/

Zach

Posted by: Vysoc Aug 9 2010, 06:41 AM

This is great stuff, really enjoying the free muffler education.

I prepped & painted my older Bursch with the VHT paint and am watching it slowly evolve back into brown.

Will be very interested to see the "bubbly mess pictures".

Keep it coming!!!!

Vysoc

Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Aug 9 2010, 07:06 AM

Painted mine with Rustoleum "High Heat" (2000º), and it's held up great! Joe has seen it. It's the dull aluminum looking color.

Posted by: jsayre914 Aug 9 2010, 09:45 AM

Here you go.

This brand new Bursch exhaust fresh out of the box with an added 100bucks now has 2 hours of driving time on it.


I will let you know what happens next


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Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Aug 9 2010, 09:48 AM

Think it contracted herpes.

Posted by: realred914 Aug 9 2010, 09:53 AM

no suprise here, powder coating cant take the heat. youi need ceramic coating to last on the exhaust system like that. I got about 1000 mile son my new ceramic caoted exhaust, even the catalytic converter has intact coating on it . very nice stuff. the place that did my ceramic coat also does regular powder coat, they will NOT powder coat an exhaust becuase of the probelms you have had, powder coat wont hold up to the heat. wrong material choice.


hopefully the vendor that did this will refund all you money.

then take it to a place that does ceramic coating. they willblast all that junkl off and start with clean metal. ceramic coaters will also coat the inside of the pipe s and muffler this two sided coating can lower the temps that teh metal sees and help remove the exhasut gases faster as they stay hot int eh pipes (the ceramic acts as an insulator.

the cermic is put on as a liquid then fired at some very high temps (much higher than powder coat temps)

Accessoroes Plus in Blemont CA does the ceramic (and powder) coating they did mine give a call 650 591-2400 ask for Ron, he is the man with teh coating knowledge.


major bummer you got stuck with powder coating. hope you get all you money back. it is the wrong material to use. the vendor shoudl have known better

Posted by: jsayre914 Aug 9 2010, 10:40 AM

The phone call;


ring ring ring

John my exhaust didnt even last one hour before the paint just bubbled away.

Oh, I guess it got hotter than that 600 degree powder could handle.

600 ? I thought we agreed that the high temp powder was rated at 1200 degrees.

No. You said that your exhaust wouldnt get hotter than 400degrees



Bring it back, I just got in a ceramic powder that is good up to 2400degrees, I can cut the weld on the chrome tip if you wanna keep it, and we can put a couple holes and screw it back on at the end. or we could thread it. I will not charge you because you are a nice guy. Its usually around 300 bucks for this type of coating.

I will see you in the morning John

Now i know this guy lied to me because we definatly agreed to 1200 degree powder. and i would not tell the guy my exhaust only gets to 400degrees, since i already know it gets much hotter than that.

BUT

i am willing to see what happens next. Shit, i already paid the guy, and he seems friendly enough. (i must also mention he did drop the exhaust off at my house on Saturay morning) any other powder coaters deliver to a residence free??

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Aug 9 2010, 12:59 PM

If he is going to ceramic coat and comp the price to what you already paid, you are going to be set. The ceramic will take an initial baking in an oven at thier facility, but will still be fragile when you install it on your car. Running the car will finish the baking process and the finish will be excellent.

Do not expect both inside and out to be coated. mine was not. That is usually much more expensive as it takes more tooling and time to do properly.

Zach

Posted by: jsayre914 Sep 7 2010, 10:01 AM

So....

I waited another 2 weeks and picked up my Bursch today from the guy. He ruined my exhaust 100%. He said when the oven got to 600 degrees the metal wrinkled

I do not believe much of anything this guy says and I now have a brand new Bursch coated with ceramic (so he says). I am not sure how it will sound, or if it will even work as a muffler at all I am also not so sure the paint wont just cook off and i am left with nothing

I would love some opinions or comments. (so much for my new Bursch)

oh yeah... he said the floor of the kiln also looks like my muffler and he now has to replace the floor. This guy has no idea what he is doing. uggggg


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Posted by: jsayre914 Sep 7 2010, 10:02 AM

isnt it beuatiful


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Posted by: Vacca Rabite Sep 7 2010, 10:51 AM

Joe, take a sharp knife - like an exacto knife - and cut one of those puckers. That looks like like the ceramic coat is blistered, and not that the metal is actually dented.

But I could be seeing something wrong. is the metal actually dented? If so, I think that your guy did something horribly wrong. That muffler can take temps well over 600 degrees without deforming. I am guessing that this guy cranked the oven to its hottest possible temp and just left it in there.

If it were me, I'd be asking for a full refund for the work done AND for the cost of a new muffler, with a threat of taking Douchy McPowdercoater to civil court. if you know any lawyers, get one to write you a letter as ammunition. You have been robbed, my friend.

Zach

Posted by: DanT Sep 7 2010, 12:18 PM

looks like the metal is deformed to me....look at the embossed lettering.

that oven must have been set pretty high to not only deform the muffler but also the floor of the guys oven....

The finish just doesn't look like the normal ceramic coating to me either

I think you and your muffler got hosed..... sorry

Posted by: jsayre914 Sep 7 2010, 12:48 PM

Yup! reeeeal bad
I could rename this thread, "How to kill a Brand new Bursch Muffler"


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Posted by: jsayre914 Sep 7 2010, 02:32 PM

I just got off the phone with Doug at Horespower Engineering (Bursch) very nice guy, and a great company. A+ . I explained everything to him that was happening, and he explained a bunch of things that could of happend. He also was willing to cut and weld on a new muffler at no cost to me

I thanked him for the offer, and he said he will ceramic coat it before he ships it back to me. I am sending him the pics as soon as i am done posting, if he thinks everything should hold i will just run it as is. Obviously i would pay for the ceramic coating, but How Cool Is This Company


Thanks Doug, my day just got a lot better

Posted by: Eric_Shea Sep 7 2010, 02:55 PM

From Post #4

I've never had a problem with this stuff and my muffler looks like the day I had it painted. Just mentioning it for anyone else reading. They've renamed it POR-15 again, the POR-20 is a much higher gloss aluminium look now:

http://www.por15.com/FACTORY-MANIFOLD-GRAY/productinfo/FMGG/

Joe, bummer about your powder guy and WTG Doug at Bursch!!

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Sep 7 2010, 03:12 PM

Joe, thats great news man!

I'd still go after the shop, though. Great vengeance and furious anger and all that.

Zach

Posted by: scotty b Sep 7 2010, 03:35 PM

This guy is a f-ing idiot !! When I was at the powder coating shop I also did ceramic coating on ocassion. A semi trained monkey could do this stuff. Sandblast part, blow clean, spray ceramic on and bake. It just isn't that damned hard. This idiot most likely had his oven to high. P.C and ceramic coating are simple easy money. I wish I had my own setup You get the " package " yet ?

Posted by: jsayre914 Sep 7 2010, 09:18 PM

Me too, i would send you more projects

Not yet, but it might be at the shop waiting for me

i am still waiting for the final word from Doug.

Posted by: jsayre914 Oct 21 2010, 04:29 PM

Update: I just got the call today that my Bursch was fixed. Cut the muffler rewelded a brand new one. (FREE!!) by Horse Power Engineering and Doug had a local shop Ceramic Coat it before he sent it back to me.

Only thing is... the ceramic coater did a nice smooth black the entire system, including the brand new chrome tip

Oh well, The other guy said it looked really cool, kinda like a black chrome. These Guys went above and beyond the call of duty. Thanks Bursch

Pics of my one of a kind Bursch will be posted very soon, once i get it

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Oct 21 2010, 07:12 PM

Thats awesome Joe. You will be driving again soon!

Zach

Posted by: jsayre914 Oct 27 2010, 03:51 PM

It looks great black, I love it Cant Wait To Get Home !!


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Posted by: dlee6204 Oct 27 2010, 03:56 PM

That looks good! Looks stealthy with that black tip! Glad everything worked out for you.

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Oct 28 2010, 07:41 AM

That looks fantastic Joe.

Zach

Posted by: BigDBass Oct 28 2010, 10:37 PM

The glass or the exhaust?

Posted by: maf914 Oct 30 2010, 04:08 PM

I am glad your muffler ordeal was finally and nicely resolved.

Now, I would like to ask why Bursch doesn't just offer ceramic coated exhausts in the first place. They could do it for an extra $50-75 and save people the headache of blasting and coating their exhausts themselves. Plus Bursch could then shake the reputation of selling systems that rust as soon as installed. I've used a Bursch Quiet in the past and was satisfied with the performance, but the thing is rusty!

Posted by: jsayre914 Oct 30 2010, 08:06 PM

My car would not have been down as long as it was.

Posted by: twinfin360 Nov 11 2010, 01:15 AM

Incredible background!! A Bursch "Pipe" in a Head Shop full of pipes!!! Too funny!

PS - Doug at Horespower Engineering (Bursch) IS Truly a very nice guy!
Just today he took the time to go off and measure and school me on the difference of the 1.7/1.8 exhaust from the 2.0 exhaust. The flanges are actually 1" farther apart from each other on the 1.7/1.8 than on the 2.0 and the the actual flanges are a little more than a 1/4" wider on the 2.0. Saved me knowing this ...cause they sure look the same in photos.

Here's there web site: http://www.burschexhaust.com/index.html

-Damon in Santa Cruz

Posted by: jsayre914 Nov 11 2010, 11:55 AM

He is the MAN

Posted by: toon1 Dec 21 2010, 04:29 PM

I just read this whole thread.

That sucks about the powdercoating prob.. good to see you got it resolved.

Awhile back, I p coated my HE's and my bursch ex. with high temp P coating from eastwood.

I did the work my self at a friends shop who has a sand blaster and an oven.

There where NO special precautions to take for the prep. and application. Hell, I used the cheapie Eastwood p coating gun.The oven only needed to be set at 400*F.

I applied 2 coats. They came out great and after 4k miles, they are holding up perfect.

Posted by: rdauenhauer Jan 1 2012, 11:56 AM

revisiting this ...
I see no one posted any pics of their setup where they have installed a flange'd/replaceable muffler?
Im curious : did you use a stainless or aluminized steel ? If SS, did you have to source SS flanges? Did you use 2 or 3 bolt flanges?

Posted by: treborzerimar Jan 1 2012, 12:14 PM

My local exhaust shop replaced my Bursch can with a Magna-Flow...... don't know if it will last longer, but it sure does sound nice!

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 1 2012, 04:17 PM

Cut off old, weld in new.
The pipes will not outlast a decent muffler so there is no value added to welding on flanges. You also don't have a whole lot of room to work with in there, and the flanges will take up valuable real estate.

If you have it ceramic coated inside and out (which may cost as much as the muffler in the first place), at that point it may be worth while, but the stock bursch muffler will last a long time as well if it has been coated properly.