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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ What Spring rate?
Posted by: bmtrnavsky Aug 30 2010, 08:10 PM
I ordered some 100# rear springs for my 73 2.0 and just found out they were on back order. My stock springs are toast... Everyone always says WOW! you set that up really squatty in the rear, and I'm like ya the springs are toast... so I was planning on putting in some 100# springs with Boge shocks. The fronts are done now and it is a BIG improvement already, but I have been waiting on my rear springs to do my rear shocks all at once. I don't really want to wait until October to finish this job, so my choices seem to be a stock spring... I don't really want this, a 90# at factory ride height, 140# lowered 1.5 inches, or the stock 65# spring. At this point I realize ANYTHING is better than what I have... but I am leaning towards the 140# springs.
I commute in the car on nice days but the car is mostly driven for fun, and I REALLY want to start taking it to the track for AX. I thought the 100# was a nice balance in performance and ride... is the 140 pound going to ride too harsh on the road?
I guess it's subjective, but I don't want to ruin it's manners on the road where it spends 90% of it's time. But I also want the car to handle really well and I get that I will have to make some compromise.
Thoughts?
Posted by: SLITS Aug 30 2010, 08:53 PM
Far as I remember, 90 - 100 lbs was stock.
Oh well ......
Posted by: bmtrnavsky Aug 30 2010, 08:56 PM
Far as I remember, 90 - 100 lbs was stock.
Oh well ......
I read someplace stock was 65#???
Is the 140# going to be rough? I like a firm ride, but I don't want it to be "too stiff". I'd like to be able to go on a 400mi run and enjoy the ride...
Posted by: SLITS Aug 30 2010, 09:01 PM
140s on the rear are a bit stiff, but not that bad. I've had them but I like a stiff ride. Passengers sometimes don't appreciate it though. Need good shocks to control the spring.
I have/had 160s on both sixes. On the four I had 140s. Also, one four with stockers.
Posted by: bmtrnavsky Aug 30 2010, 09:04 PM
140s on the rear are a bit stiff, but not that bad. I've had them but I like a stiff ride. Passengers sometimes don't appreciate it though. Need good shocks to control the spring.
I have/had 160s on both sixes. On the four I had 140s. Also, one four with stockers.
Do you think my brand new Boge's will do the trick?
Posted by: DanT Aug 30 2010, 09:06 PM
every 914 (5 of them)I have ever owned has had at least 140# rear springs. They work well in combination with stock front bars, but as stated above they need a good Bilstein or Koni to compliment and control them.
Tangerine #81 140s Konis front and rear
Delphi green #81 140s Konis front and rear
White #81 225s custom valved Bils front and rear
Attached image(s)
Posted by: DanT Aug 30 2010, 09:11 PM
Phoenix Red #5 21 mm front bars, 180# rear springs Konis up front, Custom valved Bils in the rear.
White '75 stock front bars, and 140# rears with Koni adjustables front and rear.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: SLITS Aug 30 2010, 09:17 PM
140s on the rear are a bit stiff, but not that bad. I've had them but I like a stiff ride. Passengers sometimes don't appreciate it though. Need good shocks to control the spring.
I have/had 160s on both sixes. On the four I had 140s. Also, one four with stockers.
Do you think my brand new Boge's will do the trick?
They're a bit soft as I remember (stock?), but new, could do the job. It would be nice to have Konis or Bilsten, but you have what you have ... use them.
My opinion
Posted by: kg6dxn Aug 30 2010, 09:26 PM
I run 200# progressive rate springs. Going down the road, not harsh at all. Hit a corner and they stiffen right up. I do have 400 lbs more engine than you but you can get a stiffer spring to feel good if you go with a progressive rate.
Posted by: Krieger Aug 30 2010, 09:53 PM
I run stock front torsion and 140# rear with koni adjustables all the way around. Awesome for autocross, fun on the street. Not too stiff at all. If I go full hard on the shocks for street its too rough. Full soft is perfect. Don't forget a front sway bar. I have a 22mm weltmeister. A 19mm is fine, but you can adjust a 22 down to work less and gives you the option to go pretty stiff. Though I have never gone that far. For some really cool reason cal-trans added a "passing" lane on a freeway on-ramp by my house. Gawd I love this country 
Posted by: Tom_T Aug 30 2010, 10:00 PM
Far as I remember, 90 - 100 lbs was stock.
Oh well ......
Stock rear on the 73 2L was 100#
140# would be pretty harsh for a DD unless you have a short commute or well padded butt!
100# should be stiff enough with good shocks for street fun, but maybe 120# for AX.
Boge shocks are the baseline stock set-up & not very stiff, & I hear their newer HD ones aren't much better. That's why Porsche offered the Bilstein option from the factory. You can still get Bilsteins & front inserts for the Boge Struts, as well as same for Koni's. They recco getting all 4 corners the same mfgr., type & stiffness at the same time - so you'll want to do the front inserts too.
A lot of folks don't like the KYB's - esp. with a street car/DD use.
Back in the day I upgraded to these rear Koni Reds (similar to their street HD ones now, but called "Super D" back then) F & R when my Boges wore out, & they gave a good deal of handling improvement over the Boges IMHO -
BTW - your stock 16mm F & 15mm R factory sway bars should be fine for street & street class AX, but you may want to go through & re-bush everything on the F & R suspension while you're in there upgrading stuff, if they've never been redone in 37-38 years. If you need new tie rod ends/ball joints up front, then you may as well go with the Turbo Tie rod kit for a few bucks more, but stick with the OEM Lemforder kit - not the cheaper & lower quality aftermarket tir rod ends/bj's - cuz I thought they were
& sent them back & just paid the extra for the OEM ones in the other kit (PP, AA, Pelican, maybe PMB & others carry it).Go forth & drive young Jed-eye!
Posted by: Tom_T Aug 30 2010, 10:04 PM
140s on the rear are a bit stiff, but not that bad. I've had them but I like a stiff ride. Passengers sometimes don't appreciate it though. Need good shocks to control the spring.
I have/had 160s on both sixes. On the four I had 140s. Also, one four with stockers.
Do you think my brand new Boge's will do the trick?
You can probably get the seller to exchange them & pay the difference for Konis or Bilsteins, & they may even eat the return/re-shipping if you buy the sway & other suspension bushings from them at the same time!
PP did that for me on the turbo-tie-rod kit I mentioned above.
Posted by: DanT Aug 30 2010, 10:06 PM
Tom, have you ever owned or driven for any appreciable time a car with 140# springs on it..??
not all that harsh if you have Konis set on soft...
Posted by: Andyrew Aug 30 2010, 10:12 PM
Hell I have 275's on koni yellows on my car and its not a bad ride.
Then again I have Roller bearings, which supposedly takes a bit of the tension away.. Super smooth over bumps, but thats the roller bearings..
Posted by: bmtrnavsky Aug 31 2010, 01:29 AM
I don't think I can return the fronts because I have been using them for about a week... Can I run Boge in the front and Bilstein in the rear with the 140# springs or will it handle funny?
Posted by: nsr-jamie Aug 31 2010, 06:43 AM
How about some of those progressive rate springs that harden up when used for spirited driving...I remember seeing them in 165 pound rate years ago...I bought some 140 pound springs from Dave (RIP) at GPR about 15 years ago and those seemed fine for me on road use, but than again I was 15 years younger...personally I like the firmer ride....cheers
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 31 2010, 08:03 AM
140 will lower the car and make the tail happy, meaning oversteer. Depending on how old you are, the 140 may be too harsh depending on your age.
I ordered some 100# rear springs for my 73 2.0 and just found out they were on back order. My stock springs are toast... Everyone always says WOW! you set that up really squatty in the rear, and I'm like ya the springs are toast... so I was planning on putting in some 100# springs with Boge shocks. The fronts are done now and it is a BIG improvement already, but I have been waiting on my rear springs to do my rear shocks all at once. I don't really want to wait until October to finish this job, so my choices seem to be a stock spring... I don't really want this, a 90# at factory ride height, 140# lowered 1.5 inches, or the stock 65# spring. At this point I realize ANYTHING is better than what I have... but I am leaning towards the 140# springs.
I commute in the car on nice days but the car is mostly driven for fun, and I REALLY want to start taking it to the track for AX. I thought the 100# was a nice balance in performance and ride... is the 140 pound going to ride too harsh on the road?
I guess it's subjective, but I don't want to ruin it's manners on the road where it spends 90% of it's time. But I also want the car to handle really well and I get that I will have to make some compromise.
Thoughts?
Posted by: bmtrnavsky Aug 31 2010, 10:06 AM
140 will lower the car and make the tail happy, meaning oversteer. Depending on how old you are, the 140 may be too harsh depending on your age.
I ordered some 100# rear springs for my 73 2.0 and just found out they were on back order. My stock springs are toast... Everyone always says WOW! you set that up really squatty in the rear, and I'm like ya the springs are toast... so I was planning on putting in some 100# springs with Boge shocks. The fronts are done now and it is a BIG improvement already, but I have been waiting on my rear springs to do my rear shocks all at once. I don't really want to wait until October to finish this job, so my choices seem to be a stock spring... I don't really want this, a 90# at factory ride height, 140# lowered 1.5 inches, or the stock 65# spring. At this point I realize ANYTHING is better than what I have... but I am leaning towards the 140# springs.
I commute in the car on nice days but the car is mostly driven for fun, and I REALLY want to start taking it to the track for AX. I thought the 100# was a nice balance in performance and ride... is the 140 pound going to ride too harsh on the road?
I guess it's subjective, but I don't want to ruin it's manners on the road where it spends 90% of it's time. But I also want the car to handle really well and I get that I will have to make some compromise.
Thoughts?
After talking to George I think I am going to send back the Boge shocks and get a set of Bilstein HD and 90 pound springs and lower the rear with the spring perches. Then I am going to drive the wheels off of it.
My current springs are so soft right now a 60 series tire is buried in the rear wheel well so it can only improve. The car is on the street 98% of the time and I think this will handle much better than what I have now and serve as a good base for future upgrades.
Final thoughts anyone?
Posted by: windforfun Aug 31 2010, 01:51 PM
140 will lower the car and make the tail happy, meaning oversteer. Depending on how old you are, the 140 may be too harsh depending on your age.
I ordered some 100# rear springs for my 73 2.0 and just found out they were on back order. My stock springs are toast... Everyone always says WOW! you set that up really squatty in the rear, and I'm like ya the springs are toast... so I was planning on putting in some 100# springs with Boge shocks. The fronts are done now and it is a BIG improvement already, but I have been waiting on my rear springs to do my rear shocks all at once. I don't really want to wait until October to finish this job, so my choices seem to be a stock spring... I don't really want this, a 90# at factory ride height, 140# lowered 1.5 inches, or the stock 65# spring. At this point I realize ANYTHING is better than what I have... but I am leaning towards the 140# springs.
I commute in the car on nice days but the car is mostly driven for fun, and I REALLY want to start taking it to the track for AX. I thought the 100# was a nice balance in performance and ride... is the 140 pound going to ride too harsh on the road?
I guess it's subjective, but I don't want to ruin it's manners on the road where it spends 90% of it's time. But I also want the car to handle really well and I get that I will have to make some compromise.
Thoughts?
After talking to George I think I am going to send back the Boge shocks and get a set of Bilstein HD and 90 pound springs and lower the rear with the spring perches. Then I am going to drive the wheels off of it.
My current springs are so soft right now a 60 series tire is buried in the rear wheel well so it can only improve. The car is on the street 98% of the time and I think this will handle much better than what I have now and serve as a good base for future upgrades.
Final thoughts anyone?
Try Rich at HPH for 100 pounders. I did it a few months ago. Sweet. Then again, if you gotta drive it you gotta drive it.
Posted by: Nürburg Nomad Aug 31 2010, 01:56 PM
140 will lower the car and make the tail happy, meaning oversteer. Depending on how old you are, the 140 may be too harsh depending on your age.
I ordered some 100# rear springs for my 73 2.0 and just found out they were on back order. My stock springs are toast... Everyone always says WOW! you set that up really squatty in the rear, and I'm like ya the springs are toast... so I was planning on putting in some 100# springs with Boge shocks. The fronts are done now and it is a BIG improvement already, but I have been waiting on my rear springs to do my rear shocks all at once. I don't really want to wait until October to finish this job, so my choices seem to be a stock spring... I don't really want this, a 90# at factory ride height, 140# lowered 1.5 inches, or the stock 65# spring. At this point I realize ANYTHING is better than what I have... but I am leaning towards the 140# springs.
I commute in the car on nice days but the car is mostly driven for fun, and I REALLY want to start taking it to the track for AX. I thought the 100# was a nice balance in performance and ride... is the 140 pound going to ride too harsh on the road?
I guess it's subjective, but I don't want to ruin it's manners on the road where it spends 90% of it's time. But I also want the car to handle really well and I get that I will have to make some compromise.
Thoughts?
After talking to George I think I am going to send back the Boge shocks and get a set of Bilstein HD and 90 pound springs and lower the rear with the spring perches. Then I am going to drive the wheels off of it.
My current springs are so soft right now a 60 series tire is buried in the rear wheel well so it can only improve. The car is on the street 98% of the time and I think this will handle much better than what I have now and serve as a good base for future upgrades.
Final thoughts anyone?
Well a smart motorsport enthusiast always chooses Bilstein so you can't go wrong there!Unfortunately my 914 currently has KYBs installed by the previous owner. (FYI KYB = "Kill Yer Butt" for those who don't already know!) but adjustable Bilsteins with 140lb springs are in my 914s future for certain!
There's a reason soo many race cars run them and are standard equipment on more performance-luxury cars than any other shock manufacturer; superb handling and stiffness while retaining excellent ride quality that won't break your spine!
Posted by: bmtrnavsky Aug 31 2010, 06:09 PM
140 will lower the car and make the tail happy, meaning oversteer. Depending on how old you are, the 140 may be too harsh depending on your age.
I ordered some 100# rear springs for my 73 2.0 and just found out they were on back order. My stock springs are toast... Everyone always says WOW! you set that up really squatty in the rear, and I'm like ya the springs are toast... so I was planning on putting in some 100# springs with Boge shocks. The fronts are done now and it is a BIG improvement already, but I have been waiting on my rear springs to do my rear shocks all at once. I don't really want to wait until October to finish this job, so my choices seem to be a stock spring... I don't really want this, a 90# at factory ride height, 140# lowered 1.5 inches, or the stock 65# spring. At this point I realize ANYTHING is better than what I have... but I am leaning towards the 140# springs.
I commute in the car on nice days but the car is mostly driven for fun, and I REALLY want to start taking it to the track for AX. I thought the 100# was a nice balance in performance and ride... is the 140 pound going to ride too harsh on the road?
I guess it's subjective, but I don't want to ruin it's manners on the road where it spends 90% of it's time. But I also want the car to handle really well and I get that I will have to make some compromise.
Thoughts?
After talking to George I think I am going to send back the Boge shocks and get a set of Bilstein HD and 90 pound springs and lower the rear with the spring perches. Then I am going to drive the wheels off of it.
My current springs are so soft right now a 60 series tire is buried in the rear wheel well so it can only improve. The car is on the street 98% of the time and I think this will handle much better than what I have now and serve as a good base for future upgrades.
Final thoughts anyone?
Well a smart motorsport enthusiast always chooses Bilstein so you can't go wrong there!Unfortunately my 914 currently has KYBs installed by the previous owner. (FYI KYB = "Kill Yer Butt" for those who don't already know!) but adjustable Bilsteins with 140lb springs are in my 914s future for certain!
There's a reason soo many race cars run them and are standard equipment on more performance-luxury cars than any other shock manufacturer; superb handling and stiffness while retaining excellent ride quality that won't break your spine! I am totally excited to get my parts. I may get stiffer springs in a year or so and do the front suspension at the same time, but for my budget and driving ability this will be plenty good for a while. I don't think I can out drive my car in this set up, and I want to see how addicted I get... Right now I would rather race my road car than drive a race car on the road, but 12-18 months could (probably will) change all of that! Jon, Johnathan, and George were all really helpful and the 90# rear springs with Bilstein HD's seems to be the best compromise of road drivability, budget, and AX fun for me right now. All those guys are awesome. I think I was on the phone for 3 hours today learning about shocks, springs, understeer, oversteer, and planning for future upgrades. Awesome stuff... i love this site...
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Sep 1 2010, 04:22 PM
update we will have the 100 adn 140 springs landed here tuesday
Posted by: ConeDodger Sep 1 2010, 11:29 PM
I am tripping over a pair of 100# stockers in my garage. Make me an offer that pays for a 12 pack of Fat Tire and the shipping and they're yours.
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