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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Creamsicle Project
Posted by: poorsche914 Sep 6 2010, 05:57 PM
I finally decided to tackle getting my LE started and thought the long Labor Day weekend would be the perfect time. I had already replaced the fuel tank and lines up front and had sourced '74 FI parts and bought a new Optima battery. The final piece to the puzzle was a working fuel pump which I got a couple weeks ago.
So this weekend I installed the pump and put power to it. It ran but wasn't pumping fuel up to the engine. I heard gurgling from the tank. Low fuel level. So I added more gas and tried again. Success! Fuel was now being pumped to the fuel rail but there were several leaks. Took care of these and cranked it. Nothing. Pulled two injectors and saw they were not firing. Swapped out harnesses and more of the same. 
I have both a single progressive and dual 40s. I seriously contemplated pulling the FI and installing the single Weber after a rebuild just to get the car running. After chatting with mipstein I had a few things I thought I should try first. I put power to each injector and they all fired so that took bad injectors out of the equation. I looked over pbanders d-jet page for clues. Somewhere along the way I realized the ECU was not getting power and perhaps the relay board was suspect. Having two extra boards, I picked one, transferred relays, etc and plugged it into the 914's harnesses. Turned the key, let fuel pressure build, cranked it and she fired right up!!! 
Vacuum lines, etc aren't hooked up so it revved high before I turned it off. Next step is to hook up all the vac lines (and install new shift bushings, install accel pedal, etc, etc) Goal is to have it on the road for MUSR11 
Posted by: NC_Colfax Sep 6 2010, 07:11 PM
From what I have read the single weber is poo and not worth the effort to put it on....
Glad you got it running....
Posted by: PanelBilly Sep 6 2010, 09:45 PM
Next week I start stripping mine for a full paint job
Posted by: hot_shoe914 Sep 6 2010, 10:08 PM
I finally decided to tackle getting my LE started and thought the long Labor Day weekend would be the perfect time. I had already replaced the fuel tank and lines up front and had sourced '74 FI parts and bought a new Optima battery. The final piece to the puzzle was a working fuel pump which I got a couple weeks ago.
So this weekend I installed the pump and put power to it. It ran but wasn't pumping fuel up to the engine. I heard gurgling from the tank. Low fuel level. So I added more gas and tried again. Success! Fuel was now being pumped to the fuel rail but there were several leaks. Took care of these and cranked it. Nothing. Pulled two injectors and saw they were not firing. Swapped out harnesses and more of the same.
I have both a single progressive and dual 40s. I seriously contemplated pulling the FI and installing the single Weber after a rebuild just to get the car running. After chatting with mipstein I had a few things I thought I should try first. I put power to each injector and they all fired so that took bad injectors out of the equation. I looked over pbanders d-jet page for clues. Somewhere along the way I realized the ECU was not getting power and perhaps the relay board was suspect. Having two extra boards, I picked one, transferred relays, etc and plugged it into the 914's harnesses. Turned the key, let fuel pressure build, cranked it and she fired right up!!!
Vacuum lines, etc aren't hooked up so it revved high before I turned it off. Next step is to hook up all the vac lines (and install new shift bushings, install accel pedal, etc, etc) Goal is to have it on the road for MUSR11
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 8 2010, 02:42 PM
Got a vacuum line kit from AA and installed it last night. Hooked everything up according to the schematic which was very helpful.
Turned the key and it would turn over but not fire. 
Pump runs for several seconds and then turns off so apparently system is getting pressurized.
Today I tried some starting fluid to see if that would help. Nothing.
Unhooked the advance and plugged the nipple on the throttle body.
Pulled a plug wire and inserted a spare plug to check for fire. Had my son turn the key.
It fired right up 
Since I was holding a plug wire, I told him to turn it off. Ran about 5 seconds or so.
Replaced plug wire and tried to start it.
Started to fire and then BOOOOOM and a cloud of white smoke out the tail pipe.
Now, it won't crank. The starter just clicks. 
Any ideas? Not sure how the BOOM would be related to the starter not working. The motor is not locked up.
Posted by: hot_shoe914 Oct 8 2010, 05:58 PM
Got a vacuum line kit from AA and installed it last night. Hooked everything up according to the schematic which was very helpful.
Turned the key and it would turn over but not fire.
Pump runs for several seconds and then turns off so apparently system is getting pressurized.
Today I tried some starting fluid to see if that would help. Nothing.
Unhooked the advance and plugged the nipple on the throttle body.
Pulled a plug wire and inserted a spare plug to check for fire. Had my son turn the key.
It fired right up
Since I was holding a plug wire, I told him to turn it off. Ran about 5 seconds or so.
Replaced plug wire and tried to start it.
Started to fire and then BOOOOOM and a cloud of white smoke out the tail pipe.
Now, it won't crank. The starter just clicks.
Any ideas? Not sure how the BOOM would be related to the starter not working. The motor is not locked up.
The starter just clicking sounds like solenoid. You could try whacking on the starter and it might work. As for the BOOM, I don't know.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 8 2010, 06:18 PM
The starter just clicking sounds like solenoid. You could try whacking on the starter and it might work. As for the BOOM, I don't know.
I think the boom was maybe excess starter fluid. Or would that have evaporated out?
Posted by: Spoke Oct 8 2010, 07:28 PM
How do you know the engine isn't locked up?
It seems weird that the boom from the engine now caused the starter not to engage the engine.
How much voltage do you have at the battery? Have you been charging it in between trying to get it running?
Is the engine timed correctly? When was the last time you started the engine?
Are you still running the FI?
Is the CHT sender connected? What is its resistance to ground? I had an issue when I couldn't get the car started (DJet). I disconnected the power connector to the brain and it started right up then died. Turns out the CHT was disconnected and the engine wouldn't run because it was flooding.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 8 2010, 08:26 PM
When trying to start today, it would turn over fine but acted like no fuel or spark. The only things I had done when it did fire up was remove the advance line and plug the nipple on the throttle body and sprayed some starting fluid down the intake. It fired right up on 3 cylinders as I had one wire unplugged to check for spark.
Going to pull the starter tomorrow. I think I have a spare somewhere - just have to find it.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 9 2010, 09:52 AM
Pulled the starter this morning and applied the BFH treatment
Reinstalled, turned the key, and it started right up. 
Now to get the accelerator pedal installed, check valve adjustment, timing, etc, change the oil, get some tires, etc, etc and hope it all stays together for MUSR 
Posted by: hot_shoe914 Oct 9 2010, 10:57 AM
Pulled the starter this morning and applied the BFH treatment
Reinstalled, turned the key, and it started right up.
Now to get the accelerator pedal installed, check valve adjustment, timing, etc, change the oil, get some tires, etc, etc and hope it all stays together for MUSR
Posted by: Spoke Oct 10 2010, 05:16 AM
Good show!
This is the opposite of a gremlin. You have a problem, take it apart seemingly doing nothing besides , put it together and it works.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 10 2010, 11:44 AM
Main goal of getting the engine started has been reached. Now to tackle some electrical issues:
When I first put a battery in the car a couple months ago, I checked the lights, blinkers, fuel gauge, etc to see if they worked. For the most part, all checked out OK. As I have been working on getting the motor running, things seem to have degenerated. For a while, when I turned on the blinkers, the tach would jump and the blinkers did not blink but would make a noise from the relay. Now, there is nothing from the dash gauges - no tach when engine running, no blinkers, no lights of any kind, no fuel gauge. 
I have not done anything to the electrical beyond switching out FI harnesses and the relay board. Headlights and parking lights work. Have not hooked up center console to see if it works.
Any ideas or suggestions appreciated.
Posted by: hot_shoe914 Oct 10 2010, 12:06 PM
Main goal of getting the engine started has been reached. Now to tackle some electrical issues:
When I first put a battery in the car a couple months ago, I checked the lights, blinkers, fuel gauge, etc to see if they worked. For the most part, all checked out OK. As I have been working on getting the motor running, things seem to have degenerated. For a while, when I turned on the blinkers, the tach would jump and the blinkers did not blink but would make a noise from the relay. Now, there is nothing from the dash gauges - no tach when engine running, no blinkers, no lights of any kind, no fuel gauge.
I have not done anything to the electrical beyond switching out FI harnesses and the relay board. Headlights and parking lights work. Have not hooked up center console to see if it works.
Any ideas or suggestions appreciated.
Start with the obvious if you haven't already. Check all fuses, relays and ground wires. Double check all connections and use some contact cleaner on things.
Posted by: JRust Oct 10 2010, 12:09 PM
Are the gages connected? Have you had them out since you got it? Just thought someone pulled them & didn't hook them back up. Maybe they just put them back in place without hooking them up . Or partially hooked things up? I would check all the connections first & the fuses.
Good luck with the LE. Hoping to have mine running this week after yet another hickup 
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 10 2010, 12:21 PM
Yeah, did the obvious of checking fuses, grounds, etc.
Everything worked at one point and now they don't
I haven't messed with the gauge cluster at all.
Posted by: dvtorr Oct 10 2010, 12:36 PM
Got a vacuum line kit from AA and installed it last night. Hooked everything up according to the schematic which was very helpful.
Turned the key and it would turn over but not fire.
Pump runs for several seconds and then turns off so apparently system is getting pressurized.
Today I tried some starting fluid to see if that would help. Nothing.
Unhooked the advance and plugged the nipple on the throttle body.
Pulled a plug wire and inserted a spare plug to check for fire. Had my son turn the key.
It fired right up
Since I was holding a plug wire, I told him to turn it off. Ran about 5 seconds or so.
Replaced plug wire and tried to start it.
Started to fire and then BOOOOOM and a cloud of white smoke out the tail pipe.
Now, it won't crank. The starter just clicks.
Any ideas? Not sure how the BOOM would be related to the starter not working. The motor is not locked up.
is it a click or more like a clunk sounds? Same thing happened to me and Idk if my motor is seized up or not. Right now Im stuck on this.. Figuring out the problem isnt easy! what is a BFH treatment for the starter?
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 10 2010, 12:43 PM
As far as my electrical issue - hooked up the center console gauges and none of them work. Well, except for the clock
Any idea what one main thing might be keeping all the gauges and blinkers and dash lights from working? As an added note, the hazard lights work but does not show on the indicator on the tach.
Posted by: hot_shoe914 Oct 10 2010, 12:46 PM
As far as my electrical issue - hooked up the center console gauges and none of them work. Well, except for the clock
Any idea what one main thing might be keeping all the gauges and blinkers and dash lights from working? As an added note, the hazard lights work but does not show on the indicator on the tach.
Back up a step. You said you swapped out the relay board. Did the gauges and such work before or after you swapped board?
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 10 2010, 12:57 PM
Back up a step. You said you swapped out the relay board. Did the gauges and such work before or after you swapped board?
For whatever reason, the fuel pump is connected to the (+) on the coil. Also, the tach wire and a couple others (a blue and a brown w/white stripe) from the main harness to the relay board are cut. Don't know why the wires were cut. I have taped them back together.
Looks like I need to invest in some testing equipment
Posted by: hot_shoe914 Oct 10 2010, 01:03 PM
I know why you can't get it fixed. Because you are in here playing on the damned 
instead of being outside working on the dang car! 
Now quit 
around and go the blasted thing!
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 10 2010, 01:12 PM
I currently have no way to do electrical tests. With so much not working it has to be a common feed or relay or something just gotta figure it out ( sent from my android )
Posted by: dvtorr Oct 10 2010, 01:29 PM
As far as my electrical issue - hooked up the center console gauges and none of them work. Well, except for the clock
Any idea what one main thing might be keeping all the gauges and blinkers and dash lights from working? As an added note, the hazard lights work but does not show on the indicator on the tach.
Did you ever try to push start your car before you gave it the BFH treatment?
Posted by: hot_shoe914 Oct 10 2010, 01:29 PM
I currently have no way to do electrical tests. With so much not working it has to be a common feed or relay or something
just gotta figure it out ( sent from my android ) Make a test light. All you need is a small lightbulb, an ice pick, some tape, elctrical wire and an alligator clip.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 10 2010, 01:33 PM
Did you ever try to push start your car before you gave it the BFH treatment?
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 10 2010, 06:53 PM
After mulling this over and searching the forums for hints, 
I still don't know why the gauges, wipers, turn signals, etc do not work.
The car starts and runs but the gauges do not work 
Hazard switch works but the indicator on the tach does not blink.
The turn signals do not work. The wipers do not work. The A/C fan does not work. The fuel gauge & low fuel light do not work.
These all worked when I first put a battery in the car a few months ago.
For a period of time recently, I noticed when I activated the turn signals, they only caused a bzzzzz noise and no indicator light.
I have not messed with the wiring beyond replacing the FI harness and the relay board. Swapped out four different boards.
Could the ignition switch be faulty?
Thanks for any suggestions, etc.
Posted by: hot_shoe914 Oct 10 2010, 07:52 PM
After mulling this over and searching the forums for hints,
I still don't know why the gauges, wipers, turn signals, etc do not work.The car starts and runs but the gauges do not work
Hazard switch works but the indicator on the tach does not blink.
The turn signals do not work. The wipers do not work. The A/C fan does not work. The fuel gauge & low fuel light do not work.
These all worked when I first put a battery in the car a few months ago.
For a period of time recently, I noticed when I activated the turn signals, they only caused a bzzzzz noise and no indicator light.
I have not messed with the wiring beyond replacing the FI harness and the relay board. Swapped out four different boards.
Could the ignition switch be faulty?
Thanks for any suggestions, etc.
Posted by: jt914-6 Oct 10 2010, 08:01 PM
Check all the large guage wires, four, that connect to the large battery cable on the positive battery terminal. Those four power all the guages, fuse panel, ect. Make sure they have a good solid connection to the battery. One or so may have a bad connector end.....check them one by one.....remove from battery connection and check....
Posted by: Spoke Oct 10 2010, 08:11 PM
Could the ignition switch be faulty?
Thanks for any suggestions, etc.
It could be the ignition switch but then you don't want to start changing parts without testing them.
Electrical problems can be cured many times by cleaning the contacts on the fuses, checking, cleaning and tightening the ground points.
The number of times you will have electrical problems is somewhat proportional to how long you own your 914.
I suggest buying a volt-ohm-meter. You will need it over and over again with your 914.
There have been times with my 914 and my 911 where I carried my volt meter with me while diagnosing intermittent problems.
For us to help you, many times we will need to check voltages or resistance at different places.
You can find them at Home Depot, Radio Shack, Frys, any electrical supply store for anywhere from $10 to $200+. $25 to $50 will buy you a usable VOM.
Buy one or borrow one and you can start checking voltages in different places. It's a lot easier than guessing.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 10 2010, 08:23 PM
jt - will check those wires tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion.
spoke - I plan on buying a volt/ohm meter soon. The car has been sitting for probably 20 years since it operated correctly. I have noticed some cut wires. Who knows what all the PO did to this car. Looks like I may have to give up on having it roadworthy by MUSR and instead plan on going through the electrical and other systems in the coming months.
I just wanna
Posted by: ClayPerrine Oct 11 2010, 11:07 AM
Bring it to MUSR and I will take a look at it for you. I am fairly good with electrical stuff.....
We can have a tech session on it.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 11 2010, 11:28 AM
Bring it to MUSR and I will take a look at it for you. I am fairly good with electrical stuff.....
We can have a tech session on it.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 12 2010, 09:32 AM
Long story short, I had swapped out the fuel pump because I thought the old one was leaking. Haven't been able to get it running since the swap but did find a split fuel line (cause of the leak).
This morning, swapped the original pump back in and it fired right up but now... when I turn the key OFF the engine keeps running!!! The fuel pump is hot wired to the coil (PO) so I pull that and it quits. Plug it back on and the pump doesn't run until I turn the key.
Any ideas what may be causing this?
Posted by: type47 Oct 12 2010, 09:47 AM
Just a guess, but your turn signal/emergency flasher that doesn't work the indicator lights and the "buzzing" sounds like the flasher relay/unit doesn't work. I'd also like to know why the engine keeps running after the key is turned off.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 12 2010, 09:50 AM
Just a guess, but your turn signal/emergency flasher that doesn't work the indicator lights and the "buzzing" sounds like the flasher relay/unit doesn't work. I'd also like to know why the engine keeps running after the key is turned off.
OK, I am officially declaring my 914 will not be at MUSR.
Started it, drove it up and down the driveway a couple times, turned it off. Now it won't start. Fuel pump is intermittent (powered off the coil) when key is ON. Sounds like bzzt bzzt bzzt.
I need to go through the electrical system and find out what is going on.
Looks like I will be bumming a ride with someone
At least I can take a ton of pictures while riding shotgun
Posted by: jt914-6 Oct 12 2010, 09:55 AM
Trailer it down if you can....as Clay said...there will be enough brain power to fix your problems...and enough jack stands.... 
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 12 2010, 10:09 AM
Trailer it down if you can....as Clay said...there will be enough brain power to fix your problems...and enough jack stands....
I was hoping to at least have it running and roadworthy to get it there for others to look at.
Unfortunately, no trailer or vehicle to pull it with.
Posted by: jt914-6 Oct 12 2010, 10:27 AM
How far away are you from Knoxville/Vonore???
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 12 2010, 10:30 AM
How far away are you from Knoxville/Vonore???
About 60 miles (an hour and a half drive one way) I am in Sevierville.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 12 2010, 02:41 PM
Started swapping out relays on the board to see what would happen. Not sure if that was it or not but it did start up and ran for a couple minutes several different times. But each time the fuel pump seemed to get weaker and weaker until it finally died
Posted by: swl Oct 12 2010, 02:46 PM
Could the ignition switch be faulty?
That's what I was wondering as I read through this. I don't have my Haynes in front of me to really think it through but certainly the ignition switch (particularly the part that switches on only during running) seems to be a common component amongst all that is going on. Common thing to fail too.
You really need to get a multimeter. Just a cheapy from radio shack or where ever is good enough for automotive work. Then you can really tell what is happening.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 12 2010, 03:00 PM
Could the ignition switch be faulty?
You really need to get a multimeter. Just a cheapy from radio shack or where ever is good enough for automotive work. Then you can really tell what is happening.
I will definitely be getting a multimeter. I need to test the relay boards I have to be sure at least one of them is functioning correctly.
Now I also need another fuel pump as both mine are now dead.
Posted by: jt914-6 Oct 12 2010, 03:06 PM
PM Shoe....I think he has both switch and fuel pump....
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 12 2010, 03:09 PM
PM Shoe....I think he has both switch and fuel pump....
I have an ignition switch but can't swap it out because I can't get one of the screws holding the lower dash pad out
Therefore, can't get the steering column apart. I need a big, fat Phillips head screw driver and hope I haven't stripped the slots too badly. Posted by: robby750 Oct 12 2010, 03:11 PM
You are so close to Vonore that it would be worth it to rent a trailer and truck to get it there and get it fixed. Besides, we all love Creamsicles.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 12 2010, 03:15 PM
You are so close to Vonore that it would be worth it to rent a trailer and truck to get it there and get it fixed. Besides, we all love Creamsicles.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 13 2010, 10:57 AM
Well... I swapped out fuel pumps again
The one removed was totally dead. Put power to it and nothing. The other one ran fine but I thought maybe wasn't pumping correctly. After swapping relays around, I thought I would give this pump another try.
What do you know... it works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoiEbYTlLJo
A bit on the smoky side
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm4RtLmT2Oo
Posted by: hot_shoe914 Oct 13 2010, 05:19 PM
Well... I swapped out fuel pumps again
The one removed was totally dead. Put power to it and nothing. The other one ran fine but I thought maybe wasn't pumping correctly. After swapping relays around, I thought I would give this pump another try.
What do you know... it works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoiEbYTlLJo
A bit on the smoky side
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm4RtLmT2Oo
Does this mean you are driving it to the ramble?
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 13 2010, 05:40 PM
Posted by: Spoke Oct 13 2010, 05:47 PM
Right front caliper is sticking pretty bad.
The right front caliper was sticking on my 914. I pushed the pistons back in about 10 times and it hasn't stuck since then.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 13 2010, 06:33 PM
At this point I would be afraid to drive it a mile down the road let alone 60 miles to Vonore not knowing if the brakes will work properly or not. I did push the pistons out a few times and they seemed to loosen up but can't be sure what might happen when driving.
Plus, the accelerator pedal rod pops off after a few minutes of using it due to the fact that I had to bolt the pedal to the rusted floor with a single bolt/washers combo. One of the original bolts is rusted to the floor and the other is broken off. So the pedal twists a bit and the rod pops off.
Posted by: poorsche914 Oct 22 2010, 12:09 PM
Update:
Used some PBlaster on the front caliper and so far, seems to be working correctly
Bought a multimeter and began troubleshooting. Began with the fuses. Lo and behold, two of them had no continuity even though they looked good. Did have some corrosion on the ends, however. Swapped out with good fuses and the gauges, wipers, etc are working again
Engine starts and runs though a bit smoky. Idles good but will only rev very slowly
I can bring it up to around 3k. A few loud back fires resulted. When I let off the gas, the RPMs come down slowly.
Guess it's time I adjust the valves, check timing, etc 
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