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Posted by: avidfanjpl Sep 8 2010, 11:32 PM

I finally got totally sick of the Sumitomo HTR 200's for being nothing but greasy and generally a loose ride.

May put them on another set of rims and keep them around for a while.

Anyone like the ES100's from Yokohama? I did not want to go with 50 series.

Thanks!

John

Posted by: jt914-6 Sep 9 2010, 05:18 AM

I'm using them on my car. Have only used them for a year and a half now. I'm pleased with them. They look like they will be good in the rain, but haven't driven in the rain much yet. I'm using 225/50/15's on 7 & 8" wheels. I'm sure others will give their views on these tires. I've used other Yokohama tires in the past (A008) and liked them also....

Posted by: pcar916 Sep 9 2010, 06:41 AM

I have 'em as street rubber. They're greasy at first but an hour of spirited scrubbing-in on some twisty roads does the trick. Like all Yoki's they have pretty stiff sidewalls and are sensitive to tire pressure changes. Most folks run them at too high a pressure. 25 - 29 lbs is right in my car but I have 225's in the front and 245's in the rear on 16in rims. Unfortunately this will be my last set since they got rid of their 245/45's and only have a 245/50 now. Too darn tall.

There is no way they can match DOT racing tires for grip but they wear well and are a good value.

Posted by: JimmyG Sep 9 2010, 06:57 AM

What would be the closest thing to racing tires for road driving?

Posted by: pcar916 Sep 9 2010, 07:53 AM

DOT (road legal) racing tires. Plenty of manufacturers make 'em.

Toyo
Yokohama
Bridgestone
Kuhmo
Hancook, and more

Go to TireRack and have a look in your size. They aren't the only ones.

Vilven Tire
Vulcan

Here's the thing. They won't last a long time. Toyo Proxes RA-1's are about the best I've found for durability vs grip and I love 'em. But the rubber is quite different. Street tires, to varying degrees, are formulated to retain heat.

With the exception of AX tires, race rubber (including DOT race rubber) is formulated to shed heat. AX tires are very different from road-race tires since they need to heat up very quickly. Facts about race rubber.

1. They have a limited number of heat cycles in them before the rubber gets hardened and slippery. When you run a racing tire on the road you accumulate a lot of heat cycles if it's a daily driver.

2. Many will have to be shaved (tread removed) to keep them from chunking due to heat. If they have tread, they are for rain which cools the rubber. If not for water there would be absolutely no reason for tread and we'd all use slicks all the time.

3. Race compounds need to be heat-cylcled. That's bringing them up to 180F and letting them cool (unloaded) over a day or two, in order to align the rubber molecules for durability. This isn't trivial. It will extend the life of a tire by up to roughly 35% - 50% depending on the tire and it's usage.

4. Tire rack will do both for you and others as well. But it will cost you. You can heat-cycle them yourself if you go out to the track or a big parking lot and scrub them in with drifting or something like it, but you then have to raise the car for 24hrs or remove the tires to let them cure.

5. Race tires have to be at a higher temperature to attain the grip advertised by their traction rating. On the road they may seldom get to that temperature. In fact, in cool weather you'll have considerably less grip than good street tires.

6. AX tires will wear out very quickly on the road. Period.

7. Their resistance to punctures may be less than street tires. The really light ones are notoriously fragile but make for the best handling because they reduce your unsprung-weight.

So running DOT racing rubber has it's advantages but only with specific usage.

Good luck

Posted by: ME733 Sep 9 2010, 09:26 AM

..PCAR916.......has just given all of use some of the best tire useage and applications (and "processing) I have seen on this website. everything pcar916 is true, in my experience....great info, pcar916 ...thanks.

Posted by: Michael N Sep 9 2010, 09:27 AM

I ran the Yokohama ES100 for about 1.5 years or 3000 miles before I got tired of slipping on the road. I changed to Toyo Proxes R1R's and love them. The Toyo tires are super sticky for the street and when we went to the Streets of Willows during WCR 2009 they stuck much better than I could drive. The tires were not readily available so I had them shipped directly from Toyo through a supplier. I would buy these Toyo's again and never the ES100's.

Posted by: avidfanjpl Sep 9 2010, 09:41 AM

Nothing is more slippery than the Sumitomo HTR 200's, so going to the Yoko's will be 3 steps up.

It is like being on mud. I can't dig in at all, the sidewalls are like mush.

Maybe next time I will try something better, but the Yoko's were 400 and I did not want to go to /50's this time around.

Thanks!

John

Posted by: pete-stevers Sep 9 2010, 02:41 PM

i have spun my car in the wet with the yoke es100 ...i am really edgy driving in the rain with them now.
i know of another car that was spun on a cooler day on these tires with worse luck than me...EH Doc??

Posted by: pcar916 Sep 9 2010, 03:46 PM

You're welcome. This site teaches me all the time... cool place this is!

And I just found that Vulcan actually has the 245/45-16 listed as in-stock on their website. Although I didn't call them, it looks like I bought mine too early. nuts!

Anyway, the ES100 is (from a tread perspective AND in my opinion) an intermediate, not a full rain tire. Those of us who have pushed the envelope have all spun our cars. I would point to again to the pressures. If you go by the sidewall you're running them WAY too high for our cars. That said I've spun 'em even when everything but me was perfect!!!!!

Did I say that out loud?

Posted by: echocanyons Sep 9 2010, 08:03 PM

I don't think that the make the es100's any more, something to consider if one has an issue

Posted by: avidfanjpl Sep 9 2010, 08:46 PM

I forgot to mention that I only drive the car on dry days.

It never sees rain.

Which is why I went for the Yoko AVS100's

I am putting them on the Fuch's, which is at the limit of what the car can wear without too much rubbing. I have at least 1 inch on the rears before they touch the fenders. Fronts have more.

I am putting the Sumi's on a set of Empi's I will refinish, but I may someday put a good rain tire on them.

The Sumitomo's are so greasy it feels like it's raining even at 101 on a clear day.

John

Posted by: plays with cars Sep 9 2010, 09:53 PM

I put a set of ES100s on my car recently and DO NOT LIKE THEM. Very slippery. I would not recommend them but options are limited in a 195-60R15 street performance tire (which I was limited to running the stock AX class I race in w/ PCA).

Posted by: avidfanjpl Sep 9 2010, 11:41 PM

After driving 15 months with sumitomo's, even greasy with the Yoko's will be better than nearly peeling the tires off the rims with these htr 200's

Putting them on another set of rims just in case there is an emergency.

Anything has to be better than the htr's. They are notoriously bad sidewalls.

The only thing nice about them is a supersoft ride, which I can get by driving my infiniti g35 or a boat.

John

Posted by: Tom_T Sep 10 2010, 03:04 PM

You'll indicate at 2.8% too fast & will rack up that much in "shadow mileage" on the odo. John, according to the tire size calculator on here.

Posted by: Cupomeat Sep 10 2010, 03:38 PM

If you are doing a combination of street and track and run in the rain, I HIGHLY recommend Michelin Pilot Sport PS2s.

They are reasonable grip and predictable in the wet and excellent dry tires.

I am sold on them as long as I can get them to fit my application.

If you are running 15" there won't be a size for you, most likely.

Posted by: avidfanjpl Sep 10 2010, 05:36 PM

I know there are lots of things to consider, and this is a SECOND set of rims and tires, but I put on the Yoko's today and took turns much harder on the way home than I ever did before.

The tires make the car sit maybe 1/2" higher, do not touch the wheel wells and they don't squeal around a really tight turn at high speed.

Tom, I have the speedo disconnected till I get my new angle drive in the mail, as McMark said my old one was BUSTED. Dope that I am, I had no idea! His second o ring worked perfectly. No Swepco on the floor at all! Woohoo!

The Yoko's are better than I hoped for. I am considering another set of new tires but 50 series on a set of EMPI's I hope to buy from Bruce Stone tomorrow. He has to see if he can make it happen.

Will take them and powdercoat insets semigloss black next week.

Hope they look nice. Thinking of a set of Kumho Ecsta 205/50's

OR the Dunlop

Or the Falken

Love the Yoko's for driving. Just want to decide on an AX tire.

Thanks all!

John

Posted by: avidfanjpl Sep 10 2010, 05:39 PM

Hey Cup O Meat!

HOW IS SOUTH ORANGE? Graduated from Seton Hall in 1974. We raised absolute hell there for 4 years. I mean some of the funniest things I ever saw happened there.

I can't believe that was 36 years ago. 2 years later I was out of Villanova Grad School and owned my first 73 2.0L.

I remember driving my 65 Ghia there and sliding in the snow in the parking lot of Walsh Gym.

And passing out on the lawn in the springtime. And streakers running through the campus. Not me.

John