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Posted by: Hontec Sep 23 2010, 03:54 PM

Hi,

My name is Randall, 37 years old and I live in The Netherlands

I wanted to build a classic but not deal with the classic troubles....
My search found me a Porsche 914 built in 1974 and imported from California to The Netherlands in 1999. The car drove for only 1 year and then was sent to the painter, there it stayed for 10 years until it was bought by Europe's largest 914 parts suplier here in The Netherlands and then it was bought by me.
They are notorious for the rust on the right rear and my car was in a very good shape compared to most of them. Mine had repairs done before, but not to my standards.

So the logical step was just to do it again, only better....

I'm going to completely gut out everything inside and build it up as a tubeframe 914. Powerplant is going to be a Subaru 4cil boxer and the transmission for building/setup purposes is going to be the stock 5-speed converted to 2wd. However the roadgoing transmission will be either an Elite sequential 6-speed or a mendeola seq 5-speed....haven't made up my mind just yet.

Pics from the first week when I got it:

Posted by: Hontec Sep 23 2010, 04:09 PM

The next step was to make it easier to work on, so I constructed a so-called rotisserie

Posted by: Hontec Sep 23 2010, 04:11 PM

Posted by: Hontec Sep 23 2010, 04:13 PM

Posted by: Hontec Sep 23 2010, 04:15 PM

Posted by: Hontec Sep 23 2010, 04:20 PM

H



After this I could safely start to remove the rusty bottom plates

Posted by: johannes Sep 23 2010, 04:22 PM

Great job ! This tub seems to be in a very good shape ! ...

Posted by: Hontec Sep 23 2010, 04:22 PM

I wil replace the original 4 cilinder porsche (VW) boxer with a Subaru boxer and a subaru transmission. These are pics of my fitting engine and transmission. These are from a WRX













The 4wd transmission will be converted to 2wd for mid-engine use by removing the center diff and locking two independent rotating shafts together so that all the power is transferred to the old front wheels which are now the rear wheels,



Decided to make the endplate myself

Posted by: Hontec Sep 23 2010, 04:24 PM

Bought an engine for fitting purposes













Cleaned the heads





















Then had it all coated, just because it looks good

Posted by: Hontec Sep 23 2010, 04:28 PM

Then I installed braces in the doors to prevent the car from bending when the complete floorpan is removed.
Then I safely removed the rest of the floorpan and after that it was time to start building the Jig for this baby.
I want to build it into a semi tubeframe porsche with a subaru boxer and a sequential transmission. I will cut out the entire inside except for the front inner fenders and create a new inside, with carbon floor and carbon fenders and doors.
It will be the GT wider version.

Pics of the Jig construction

Posted by: Hontec Sep 23 2010, 04:30 PM

Posted by: Hontec Sep 23 2010, 04:32 PM

Finished the OEM transmission mount jig, it's the one in the rear center.
Left side frame rail also finished and started today with the jig that will hold the rear outer body shell during cutting and removing the inside of this car.
It needs to be solid since it will be the only thing preventing the body from bending at the doorsills when empty ( the doorbraces I want to remove during building of the tube frame)

Pics show it half way finished now;

Posted by: kg6dxn Sep 23 2010, 04:43 PM

Wow! Brilliant!

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Sep 23 2010, 05:11 PM

SWEEEEEEEEEEET

Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Sep 23 2010, 05:17 PM

Hontec.

Beautiful workmanship & engineering. Keep the thread coming.

Tom

Posted by: mihai914 Sep 23 2010, 05:32 PM

Very nice work, where did you pick-up such skills if you don't me asking?

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Sep 23 2010, 05:41 PM

There appear to be some excellent engineering and welding skills going into this project. Keep the pics coming, we all appreciate seeing a project like this. Oh, yes...

Posted by: Tom Sep 23 2010, 05:42 PM

Wow, you sure have great skills. This car is going to be fantastic!
Tom

Posted by: orange914 Sep 23 2010, 06:32 PM

thats downright increadable work. look forward to seeing this one's progress

Posted by: McMark Sep 23 2010, 08:15 PM

Posted by: Britain Smith Sep 23 2010, 08:27 PM

This should be awesome to watch.

-Britain

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 23 2010, 08:42 PM

Kick ass! Can't wait to follow your progress!

Posted by: bandjoey Sep 23 2010, 08:42 PM

UNBELIEVABLE WORK! CLASSIC THREAD NOMINATION1

You should be in the antique restoration business.

Posted by: RobW Sep 23 2010, 09:25 PM

Umm.. you win.

Posted by: al weidman Sep 23 2010, 10:00 PM

This wouldn't be the first time you have done something like this, would it? Why don't you give us a little bio so we can fully appreciate your work. I think we are going to be following your project eagerly. Al.

Posted by: championgt1 Sep 23 2010, 10:01 PM

Um hella of a first post.

Posted by: sww914 Sep 23 2010, 10:13 PM

Nice lawnmower.

Posted by: campbellcj Sep 23 2010, 10:39 PM

Wild - the tooling looks like stuff I see in aerospace factories!

Cool project, I will definitely stay tuned to this one.

Posted by: Jerry Sep 24 2010, 12:01 AM

....damn......pretty much speachless !!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Hontec Sep 24 2010, 01:13 AM

Thank you all for the kind words and positive inputs! Very much appreciated!

As far as my constructional skills go; I started working in my uncle's garage in the holidays when I was around 10 years old. From there on things got out of hand and I started building cars ( mainly Honda's) putting engines in no-one had ever concieved possible. That got noticed and gave me a lot of work, which eventually ended up in me starting a business in building race/rally cars.
Built everything, from circuit to rally and even Dakar cars... 3 years ago I got sick of not having the time anymore to be able do do my own car, so I left the company and got back to the old days....hobbying again.....( I had the company next to my regular job)

So that's where I basically have the skills from......when i found the 914, I was in love immediately. I wanted to do something different, but do it right. I know I could have put her on jackstands and start cutting, but that simply is not the way I do things......

Maybe it's overkill, but eventually this is the hobby......

Thanks

Randall

Posted by: oldschool Sep 24 2010, 01:48 AM

And you own 2 lawnmower.

Posted by: Hontec Sep 24 2010, 04:12 AM

Lol..!! true

Posted by: Hontec Sep 24 2010, 07:50 AM

Finished the rear body shell brace today. next week I'll start on the front ones and after that the jigs to give me shock mounting point positions.

Posted by: flipb Sep 24 2010, 08:35 AM

Is this car going to be http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=84842's more conservative European cousin?

Posted by: John Jentz Sep 24 2010, 08:39 AM

WOW!

Posted by: Hontec Sep 24 2010, 08:50 AM

It may very well be, however, unless I come up with a good soft or hardtop, the weather here is not very favourable to an open car....

Posted by: Brett W Sep 24 2010, 11:06 AM

Nice setup. Why don't you tell everyone about some of the other cool projects. Like the mid engine Civic project and others. Sounds like it will be a very nice project.

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 24 2010, 11:50 AM

Very nice work on the fixtures.

Posted by: jd74914 Sep 24 2010, 11:55 AM

I'd love to see pictures of some of your other projects.

Posted by: Britain Smith Sep 24 2010, 12:52 PM

This pictures looks like something you would see in an old factory photo.



-Britain

Posted by: stewteral Sep 24 2010, 02:53 PM

Hi Randall,

I'm in California with a California car that I'm rebuilding with more rust than yours! So I hope you appreciate that you have a good car for your project.
Having the paint and body already done is a great way to start and the color is great!

Thanks for all the great photos, your work is absolutely superior and sets a standard for all us to try to attain.

Thanks also for your rotissorie for the car gave me an idea on how I can build one for my project!

I would love to see more photos as you build your tube frame and install the Subie engine.

Best of luck,
Terry

Posted by: Hontec Sep 24 2010, 03:02 PM

Terry

Thank you, The car had been in a paintshop for 10 years before I bought it. The papers that come with the car say it's black........The paintjob however isn't that good, when I started removing the tar on the bottom, beneath it, it was covered in rust, and when i removed some sealant in the back, there was rust underneath.
All of this tells me the paintjob wasn't done thoroughly. I however do appreciate the chassis is in a pretty good condition compared to many others I have seen.
Nevertheless it will be paintstripped completely again......

Posted by: arkitect Sep 25 2010, 07:39 AM

My hat's off to you, excellant job. Wish I had a tenth of your skills. Look forward to more picts, would also like to see previous projects.

Dave

Posted by: roadster fan Sep 25 2010, 10:10 AM

This is going to be so fun to watch!

Jim

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Sep 25 2010, 10:53 AM

Randall, top quality work and skills ! I know of 2 other tube frame 914s here in the states, but your "Show and tell" pics are fascinating at the least. Good things coming from Den Haag
Marty

Posted by: Hontec Sep 26 2010, 10:54 AM

Thanks guys, your inputs are appreciated!

@ Marty; you know Den Haag?

Posted by: Hontec Sep 26 2010, 11:43 AM

Have some AST airjacks left over from a previous project, Looks like fun to incorporate these into the 914 tube frame.





Picture of how it was installed in a previous project. Mid engined Honda Integra with an NSX V6 and inverted porsche G50 transmission.





For those that asked for it; pic of the Integra setup:









Project was sort of a bet with a friend that It wouldn't fit, when I proved it did, I lost interest and scrapped it







Have some other goodies left over: BTCC centerlock wheels, I have 8






And the huge-ass brakes that fit them;








Not sure yet about the wheels and brakes, They will be centerlocks, but not sure if I will use the OZ. They are light thouhg for 19"

Posted by: Britain Smith Sep 26 2010, 11:59 AM

Thats a lot of work to prove a point...but very nice indeed.

-Britain

Posted by: Hontec Sep 26 2010, 12:04 PM

Absolutely true, kind of drastic, but I already had 5 or so cars and another carcass out back was sort of too much......

Posted by: KELTY360 Sep 26 2010, 03:59 PM

The ultimate 914 option.......built-in jackstands!!

Incredible thread, incredible workmanship.

Posted by: ripper911 Sep 26 2010, 04:57 PM

I love the Netherlands , I've only been once

I hope to go back and visit as soon as possible.

Nice work, Keep it coming!

Posted by: URY914 Sep 26 2010, 07:05 PM

Please explain to me again why you need to build such a strong jig? I don't understand the need for all the bracing. It is very nice work and looks great.

Posted by: sooba_dave Sep 26 2010, 07:07 PM

Holy cows! I can't wait to see the next set of pictures!

Posted by: Hontec Sep 27 2010, 02:17 AM

You're absolutely right, I don't need to build it this strong. But that's how I like to do it and since I want to build a good jig for my use ,and when I'm done,as a repair jig that I can rent out to the 914 guy(shop) here in The Netherlands. My reasoning is that I can better make it fool proof then... I've seen a few jigs now and they were too simple, If I just weld a single upright to mark a fixed point on the chassis, the welded part will distort under heat and the position to be marked will be incorrect, hence my multitude in bracing.
Better to be safe than sorry is my filosofy.....I'm not going to take any chances with this car. I want to go flat out, with a good powefull engine and a sequential transmission. I know the guy that makes the carbon bodies for the Spijker cars and he is going to make my fenders (GT) out of carbon, as well as the doors and hoods/roof.
Exterior wise I want her to look like a stock GT, but only way lighter and way more powerful. The Inside needs to be high tech.......
My wife calls it OCD.....

Posted by: phillstek Sep 27 2010, 06:11 AM

Hoe gaat het met u...echt goed werk op uw auto!

When you get the guys from Spyker to make your carbon parts get them to make some for me also.

Better yet, why not organize a group buy!?

Phil

Posted by: scotty b Sep 27 2010, 06:25 AM

You and Dana and Rick need to have a master build sometime


Attached image(s)

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 27 2010, 07:43 AM

--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scotty b @ Sep 27 2010, 07:25 AM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
You and Dana and Rick need to have a master build sometime
[/quote]

Don't count yourself out of that build Scotty...

I like your fixture. I have a Celette Bench but no fixtures yet. I now have a nice straight chassis to work off of like yours. I think based on what I have seen the 914's in your part of the world could benefit from your fixture.

Posted by: Hontec Sep 27 2010, 08:30 AM

I am a master in thinking up the most weird things, so that would be interesting

Posted by: Hontec Sep 27 2010, 08:34 AM

Heel goed, dankjewel!!


About the fenders/hoods... The molds will be mine after this , so technically reproduction is possible....If it turns out the way I want to, I will seriously consider producing them...

Posted by: Hontec Sep 27 2010, 08:39 AM

Celette is the best, however expensive. The fixtures I think you're going to have to make yourself.......In the old original 914 repair manuals I bought in Germany, I saw that porsche had jigs for the front suspension etc, but finding them is near to impossible I guess..

Indeed 9 out of 10 914's here are bad......And I'm glad I have my fairly excellent chassis for this project......but it cost me, I paid around 8k in us$ for this one in good shape.....without engine/transmission but rolling.....

Posted by: draganc Sep 27 2010, 12:22 PM

Randall,

That’s some great engineering you are sharing with us! I just hope you don’t get bored and scrap the project after you have proved it works!
Where are you located in The Netherlands? I’m on and off to Duesseldorf/Aachen and would love to stop by with some Grolsch and talk about 914 stuff.

Tot ziens,
Dragan

Posted by: Hontec Sep 27 2010, 03:01 PM

Thanks!

I live in the south, next to volkel AFB. Düsseldorf and Aachen are closeby!
I regularly go to NY, LA, Houston, Chicago and San Francisco! Should plan a trip when there is a 914 meeting somewhere near one of those places, should be fun!

Best regards

Randall

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Sep 27 2010, 03:04 PM

Eh, just let the locals know you are coming and they will plan something. Everywhere I have gone it seems we have been able to get a few fellow teeners together to do something.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Sep 27 2010, 03:10 PM

That would be awesome. Never hurts to have more places to go when needed

Posted by: draganc Sep 27 2010, 03:17 PM

Cool! I live in Princeton NJ, just about 45min south of NYC or north of Philly. Shoot me a PM once you are in town.
Dragan

Posted by: Hontec Sep 27 2010, 04:03 PM

Thanks, I will...you too!.

Posted by: Hontec Oct 1 2010, 01:36 PM

Today was a very productive day. Started off with rigging up the engine to make a jig for it, so it can be positioned on the main jig so I can incorporate it into the tubeframe.
Also bought and installed an oilpan, will finish this jig later on.








Then constructed the front frame support jigs:
























Then started construction on the jigs for the front suspension pickups:

Posted by: Downunderman Oct 1 2010, 02:04 PM

A serious outbreak of a new strain of DWD. Buy some golf clubs.

Posted by: d914 Oct 1 2010, 02:10 PM

between this and anklebiter I'm not posting any more pics of my car build... in comaparision Im using bubblegum and bailing wire and a large hammer!!!!

Posted by: Krieger Oct 1 2010, 03:47 PM

but this thread can't be real. I think this is all just a photoshop hoax. Too good to be true

Posted by: Hontec Oct 2 2010, 11:18 AM

Finished the right schock/tower positioning jig:

Posted by: Borderline Oct 2 2010, 02:07 PM

WOW! You have more effort into your fixturing than most have their 914s. Very impressive! You do fantastic work.

I have a few questions:

How are you locating your fixture points? Are you assuming that the existing chassis is straight and fixturing to the chassis as is? Or, are you measuring and squaring things up as you go? I remember when Sir Andy had his chassis on the cellete bench and how much work went in to straightening his chassis.

What are your plans for suspension? It looks like you're going to continue with the strut type front suspension and semi-trailing arm in the rear. To me, a car this special deserves something special in the suspension department.

Great work!

Bill C

Posted by: Hontec Oct 2 2010, 02:26 PM

Bill,

Thank you very much. I'm using a mix of both methods, I know for a fact that this chassis is as straight as it will ever come and I constantly measure everything with reference to the fixture. As we speak i have around 2mm of difference. I can tell you after working on modern race and rally cars for many years, the 2mm I have now is way less than most of what I've seen on modern cars, long live adjustable suspension.

talking about suspension; I've been seriously toying around with the idea of making this a 4wd car, let's call it the 914 4S.. I have bought a 964 carrera4 front suspension and I'm going to see how that will fit into the 914 chassis.
there is a company in Australia that makes a reversed ring&pinion so you can flip the diff in the Subaru transmission and put it in "Porsche"style. for that setup I would use all subaru driveline, for the simple reason the porsche's is about 10x more expensive and also weighs in 6 times more. Subaru driveline parts are abundant and readily available. The rear suspension I'm in doubt. I am definately going to raise the rear suspension 2 inches for geometry but also temted to install the carrera4 rear suspension.

If I go 2wd, I will raise the rear pickup points as well, with the stock 914 reinforced trailing arms and the front will be ERP

Schocks will be almost certainly fox, but I also know the guys at Intrax and Proflex.....

Thanks

Randall

Posted by: Dr Evil Oct 2 2010, 02:56 PM

I love this thread

Posted by: Hontec Oct 2 2010, 04:03 PM

Thanks! few more jigs to construct and then I can have it powdercoated, then the chassis will be media blasted and then finally I can start cutting and build her back up... That will keep me busy during the wintertime...

Posted by: FourBlades Oct 2 2010, 04:31 PM

Do you position the jig attachment points to match your car or do you rely on
factory measurements of where they are supposed to be?

Do you weld up the attachment jigs with the end points bolted in place or do
you build them off the jig and then bolt them on?

Is the jig tig welded or mig welded?

Thanks for posting this thread, it is teaching us all a lot.

John

Posted by: Hontec Oct 2 2010, 05:03 PM

Hello John

I do a bit of both, I project every point on the jig and compare it to the other side. This results in a difference of 2mm which is well within limits for a car this age. Again; this car is exceptionally straight and has no major repairs done on it. The only thing that was repaired was the front end, it shows bad sheetmetal denting below the front trunk lock. Every line/gap on the car flows evenly and since the difference is so small, and I am building this rig for this car to be modified, I am extremely certain about this way of work.

Everything is mig welded.

I weld everything on the jig in it's intended position. I first completely spotweld the structure ( this helps minimize pulling and warping when welding) and then I fully weld every place I can reach, stil with the whole structure in place. After that I take the jig off and weld the hard to reach places ( very few in general) then I testfit again to the intended position( I wait to remove the jig until fully cooled down, so the metal will mostly return to it's intended shape)

This method results in the least discrepancies when welding the jigs, naturally the metal tends to warp a tiny bit but after I place it back, I recheck the fit and if nescessary I adapt.

Again, a minor offset is unavoidable but it is so small, it can all be corrected in setting up suspension. Try to measure your modern car, you will be shocked...

When the chassis has been mediablasted, I will put her back on the rig, assemble every jig, install the roof and the doors, check everything again and after I am pleased, start cutting out the inner section.

Posted by: J P Stein Oct 2 2010, 05:09 PM

The 2nd worst point of the 914 (with the chassis being worst) is the suspension.
With the amount of work you are putting into it, double A arms at both ends wouldn't be much of a streatch.....but that is just my opinion.

Posted by: Hontec Oct 2 2010, 05:17 PM

You are so true!, hence my first attempt will be to try and fit a Carrera4 front suspension......just to satisfy my curiosity.... If I pull it off to make it fit, i will move on to the rear.
Only thing holding me back is that I will have to bring the car in for a full test/inspection which will most likely result in them giving me new plates and the car not being registered as aclassic anymore. That's all because I want to keep it roadlegal. On the other hand, there is a lot of working space, since the car is so old. This gives me a certain degree of freedom.....pffffff laws, laws....

I have also cooked up a plan using lotus elise double wishbone setup.......but for now I'm going to first try the carrera setup...

Posted by: FourBlades Oct 2 2010, 05:32 PM

Thanks for the answers. I would love to make a jig like that for restoring rusty
914s without warping them like pretzels.

That answers a lot of my questions.

It makes sense that most cars are off a bit, they have so many rubber bushings
in their suspension and most people want a quiet, comfortable ride.

John

Posted by: John Oct 2 2010, 06:40 PM

I've been toying with a similar idea but was planning to make my chassis fixture more stout.

You are going to powder coat your fixture? I take it that you plan on making more than one chassis.

Defiantly a neat project and very neat and clean work.

It sure was a nice tub that you started with.

Posted by: Zaney Oct 2 2010, 11:05 PM

+1 for the AWD 914!
Awesome build! Go Suby Power!

Posted by: Hontec Oct 3 2010, 04:27 AM

Thanks, the awd will involve some serious design work though, my greatest concern is how far back the engine will sit and how much understeer it will generate. On the positive side; The subi engine is such a light weight! All of their components are compared to porsche.

I will start fitting and figure out the options once the jig is finished and the car has been cut.

Posted by: Hontec Oct 3 2010, 04:34 AM

Thanks,

I do not know if I'll be making more than one chassis, but I hate rust and since I know somebody with a coating company this is just a simple step. I like to work tidy.......I know... OCD

Posted by: J P Stein Oct 3 2010, 07:46 AM

The suspension (such as it is) can be tuned tp produce understeer or oversteer to your preference using the standard methods of springs and/or antiroll bars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E59nqYUMvHY

Subi power is in the cards for this car......bout 350 at the wheels should be about right....to start.

Posted by: RJMII Oct 3 2010, 09:50 AM

I have to come out of lurk mode for a minute...

Are you going with the Subie 6 speed for the AWD? I think you have more to consider than just the weight of the engine for the understeer/oversteer issue.
The engine is indeed quite light, but how light is it compared to the bule of that extra long transmission that will be taking its place? By flipping the drive train around, wouldn't you need to take into consideration the amount of weight before the axles and after the axles? and the positioning of it all?
How far will the trans go into the driver compartment? take for example the Diablo, they have the bulk of the transmission about even with the driver's posterior.
I think AWD would be great to see, and I think you can shift a little bit of weight forward to keep your balance.

Posted by: Borderline Oct 3 2010, 11:52 AM

I think making a 914 into a rear engined vehicle is sacrilege! The gawds will not look highly upon thee and nobody will like you!!

Posted by: Hontec Oct 3 2010, 03:46 PM

Now you got me motivated!

I live out of the goddamn box!

Posted by: Hontec Oct 3 2010, 03:51 PM

You may lurk but my first measurements have told me the transmission will even stay well clear of the rear bulkhead, even in awd form with the cone attached. Aside from that, the bulkhead will be changed anyhow. with a slight driveshaft angle, I can even shift weight forward.
I will also change the way to bulky sidebeams that contain the airhose, so my interior wil be wider, more spacy and I will need to construct a center tunnel that will again aid in strength......


What the hell am I getting myself into.....ah well......for the fun of it...

Posted by: Hontec Oct 6 2010, 04:02 PM

Major bummer today......spent a lot of time talking to the Dutch DMV and with the modifications I have planned, they will revoke my classic car title and the classic plates I have for it....hence it will become a modern car according to them and the production date will become the date of the new driveline......so in theory it will be a 1998 porsche 914....... They reason that since a 4wd version was never built and it will involve me changing the driveline and suspension, I will have changed 2/3's of the car, hence making it a prototype.... It will be possible but they will have to fully test it and give it an EU certification.......that will cost me dearly and not worth the effort. If I build it anyway and have the luck that the inspector at the yearly inspection doesn't know what he is testing, I will have huge issues with the insurance in case something happens......even worse; they will hold me responsible for damage and liability....not worth the effort, not even close.......so what I'm going to do for now is continue building the tubeframe and keep it mid-engined rwd but going for some kind of double wishbone setup....

Posted by: kg6dxn Oct 6 2010, 04:55 PM

Well, I'm sure someone here in the US would love to buy your 1998 914. We don't have those sort of inspections here in California. Based on the work so far, you car is going to be awesome!

Posted by: Britain Smith Oct 6 2010, 07:11 PM

I am very interested to see what you come up with for the double wishbone rear suspension. Make it something that can be adapted (with fabrication) for my car and I would make a good customer.



-Britain

Posted by: trojanhorsepower Oct 6 2010, 07:15 PM

Damn it man post some more pictures!!!!

Posted by: Krieger Oct 6 2010, 08:00 PM

So what about registering/insuring it somewhere else then bring it in? Even if you have to scale back this is still going to be an awesome car with amazing performance!!! So it will be radical, but not totally radical. Still thinking out loud... how about setting it up rear engine rear wheel drive, with the ability to add the front system at a later date? Would they go for a rear engine set up? Is that the hold up? Sounds like the tube frame isn't the issue.

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Oct 6 2010, 08:38 PM

...Yes indeed, I sent over an MSDS exhaust header/ crosspipe system to Den Haag last month. It was for a 24valve Mondeo V6.
Good to see gearheads in the Netherlands
Randall...have you seen any 6 spd seq. gearboxes suited for the 914/ mid ??
Marty

Posted by: plymouth37 Oct 6 2010, 11:54 PM

How do you think they would feel about twin engine, twin transaxle awd?

Posted by: majkos Oct 7 2010, 08:12 AM

Supercharged!

Posted by: Sleepin Oct 7 2010, 12:14 PM

Been done, must have been fun:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgnCtkrmWUs?

Posted by: Hontec Oct 7 2010, 04:41 PM

Been thinking all day and there is only one solution: build it all interchangable into one chassis and I think I have the solution!

Posted by: Zundfolge Oct 8 2010, 10:09 AM

Keep in mind that the 914 was originally designed to be a front engine car (that's why the front trunk is so huge) so if you want to go AWD you might as well just put the engine up front.

Posted by: brant Oct 8 2010, 10:37 AM

huh?....

Posted by: Zundfolge Oct 8 2010, 11:19 AM

That's the story I've always heard ...

Here's http://www.356-911.com/modelinfo/porsche%20914spot.htm reference to it and here's http://auto.howstuffworks.com/porsche-914-history1.htm.

Posted by: Hontec Oct 8 2010, 01:06 PM

The way I read it, the front engine setup was just a pre-design study, which is usually the case with cars before a final design is used after many, many initial designs have been made....... Fitting an engine and transmission and steering rack in front of the car is virtually impossible. Even with a shallow height Subaru and transmission it will not fit..... and then you still need to put in a steering rack somewhere.. the distance from the axle center to the start of the cabin is too short.
The tranny would take up the majority of the inside in the cabin and it would leave you no space in the footwell....and so on and so on.....this will not fit even close.....

Posted by: Hontec Oct 19 2010, 05:13 AM

Today I finished the front left suspension Jig, things are moving a bit slower since I last worked on the 914, apparently according the docter I have a torn muscle in my arm.......

Next phase is the rear suspension pickups and a jig for the steering wheel frame

Pics from today..

Posted by: URY914 Oct 20 2010, 05:54 PM

...never heard that before.

Posted by: SirAndy Oct 20 2010, 06:11 PM

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=51265

Posted by: Hontec Oct 23 2010, 05:27 AM

Finished the right rear shock absorber mounting jig today:

Posted by: carr914 Oct 23 2010, 07:42 AM

If you ever lose interest in this car, don't cut it up, send it to Me

Posted by: Hontec Oct 23 2010, 08:15 AM

If I do, my wife will kill me........

Posted by: Hontec Oct 23 2010, 08:17 AM

Mounted the passenger side door to check for gaps and alignment....It is absolutely evenly gapped all around, that makes me a happy guy...

Posted by: Jeroen Oct 27 2010, 01:35 PM

awesome work!
damn... I'd better step up on my game

Posted by: rick 918-S Oct 27 2010, 03:11 PM

Hi Buddy! Nice work eh!

Posted by: Jeroen Oct 27 2010, 04:41 PM

hey Rick

Posted by: Jeroen Oct 27 2010, 05:35 PM

Just a couple of Q's...

On the rear susp. fixture, why did go off the adjustable piece that holds the outer end of the trailing arm (whatsitcalled... come on guys, I've been out of this too long ) and not the chassis?

Kinda ditto on the front. Since the top shock mount (camber plate) is adjustable...

Posted by: rick 918-S Oct 27 2010, 07:07 PM

As long as the fixture is located in a know good chassis center point the tube chassis pickup point will be fine. Even the Celette has a location for both front and rear suspension adjustable locations. It should work fine.

Yaroon, you need to start a thread and catch us up over here. We miss ya.

Posted by: Hontec Oct 28 2010, 01:23 AM

In the rear I picked a zero degree camber neutral position, since all is adjustabe, I opted for this setup. Also the toe-in is a neutral position.
This way when I construct the new suspension pickup points, I Will have the same range of adjustability.

In the Front, I did kind of the same. Chosen a neutral camber/ caster position but also kept the angle of the jigs exactly identical left and right to the exact degree. This Will again give me a neutral position with the possibility of adjustment.

The Front Will have the tangerine racing camber boxes installed, however I am going to fit double wishbone suspension all around anyhow. The oem suspension points Will be on the chassis, only they Will not be used.

They do not interfere with the wishbone setup and this way it is easy to revert back to just in case.

Randall

Posted by: Jeroen Oct 28 2010, 05:54 AM

Does it need to keep the original suspension pickups for the RDW?

Chris's camberplates are nice. Those and his raised rear susp.kit are on my "got to get" list

Posted by: Hontec Oct 28 2010, 07:50 AM

Not sure if they need to be on there but it Will take little effort to keep the oem points on the chassis, they do not interfere And it will give me some ease of mind and work just in case they do not approve of the 4wd concept.

Posted by: hermantel Oct 29 2010, 03:39 PM

Nice work

I am also restauring and builing a 914 1700 cc with a Subaru 2.0 liter EJ20 STI Turbo motor with 280 HP
However I to use the old 415 gearbox. with motor adaptorplate and special flywheel

Question 1:
I am not sure if the standard clutch will hold out.
Anyone experience with this? Should I use a special double clutch?

Question 2:
Also if there is a way to use the standard discs and breaks.
Are they good enough? And if I would replace the head brake cilinder for a 911
one. Would that do the trick?


I also want to use wheel adaptors from 4 logs to 5 logs to put 17" Porsche Boxer
black Wheels. Are very light...
Question 3:
Is the force on the standard 914 bearings not to high for the 280 HP EJ20 Subaru Turbo motor?


I sometimes heared that some people put 944 wheel insides and discs and brakes of a 944.
Question 4:
Has anyone experience with this kind of set up?


The chassis I will put some fish grade enforcement pieces. I think that is stronger than welding just a straight plate ofer the rear frame of the car to make it more stiff against torsion.

Or has anyone other suggestions?


It does not has to become a master piece. Is just a fun car. However it has to be safe...
I will not use it for racing or so...But still 280 HP is serious power...So
I just want to know if I do not make an death trap...Haha....

Greetings from Herman from the Netherlands (Europe near Amsterdam)
hermantel@gmail.com

Posted by: Hontec Oct 29 2010, 04:20 PM

Hello Herman,

to answer some of your questions:

1- I am pretty sure you Will fry THE stock disc and that THE pressure plate Will not hold in THE long run

2- upgrade to 911, from 80 to 280 hp requires à brake upgrade, do not underestimate this......9!out of 10 do not upgrade with significantly more power being installed unfortunately

3- bearings Will be ok, use a 5 lug redrilled 914 or buy an expensive 914-6. I would use à redrilled with a 944 stub to have à larger cv joint.

4- I believe you van upgrade to 928-S4 with adapters

Hope this helps some,

best regards

Randall

Posted by: d914 Oct 29 2010, 04:29 PM

Where are the tools??? The metal shavings?? left over pieces of bar??? How come his garage looks neat.... HOW DOES HE DO THIS and build the car!!!!!!!

Posted by: Hontec Oct 29 2010, 04:48 PM

Lol! Ever since I built my new garage, I promised myself to clean up after myself and store all the tools , so when I start again the next day, everything is Nice and tidy

Posted by: majkos Oct 29 2010, 07:27 PM

I gotta ask!
Are the tiles set-up as "scale"?
and what are they made of?
I LOVE your garage!

I clean in the morning, remind myself of what I've done, and what's to do next.
Get in the Zone! more productive. (This's just me.)

Posted by: Hontec Oct 29 2010, 09:46 PM

thanks! The tiles are made of recycled electricity wire ( the plastic ) they are sealed together and are an acid and oil resistant garage floor. They do not break and if damaged can easily be replaced.
It's the most expensive "tool" I've ever bought for my shop, but it's been worth it!.

Posted by: majkos Oct 31 2010, 08:35 AM

expensive tool eh?

I bet your tool chests recess into the floor.

Put away tools,sweep off top,push button, recess down into floor
Sweep floor, done.

Posted by: Hontec Oct 31 2010, 08:57 AM

that would be cool though!

Posted by: Hontec Nov 10 2010, 11:52 AM

Yes! finally finished the Jig!, it's off' it's jackstands and both doors hung in for check-fitment..everything lines up perfectly and the next step is to make a brace from the front window frame to the targa bar.......Then I'm going to remove the fenders and have the chassis mediablasted and the jig coated...

some pics from today:

Posted by: Hontec Nov 12 2010, 10:29 AM

At first I intended to make a brace between the A-pillar and the targa bar.......This intension turned into a fullscale way out of hand door frame brace....started today on the left side, will finish this one tomorrow..

Posted by: RJMII Nov 12 2010, 10:35 AM

You've done more work to your 'jack-stands' in the past two months than most of us have done to our cars.

That looks great! Thanks for posting all of the pictures and updates. Keep up the good work.

Posted by: sawtooth Nov 12 2010, 10:56 AM

great perspective, from a ladder? 914 metal sculpting artwork. I'll be happy just to get my engine cradle built. I have to keep going back to your original post just to remember what your end goal is. I would have just settled for a suby conversion in that great looking car you started with. Keep up the great work, can't wait to see the finished product.

Posted by: Hontec Nov 12 2010, 11:22 AM

True I guess! Thanks for the positive comment, well appreciated!!

Posted by: Hontec Nov 12 2010, 11:25 AM

Thanks!, picture is taken from the attic, always gives a great perspective.

My initial goal was to simply put in a suby engine/trans but somehow this chassis keeps giving me the vibe to make it 4wd...I've done huge amounts of thinking and measuring and it keeps haunting me that it is possible..........that's the way it's going to be then.....

Posted by: Hontec Nov 12 2010, 02:40 PM

Maybe getting slightly ahead of myself, but received this today.

Posted by: Hontec Nov 13 2010, 09:27 AM

Finished the left door frame jig today, turned out to be quite an elaborate and complex structure which took 2 days to build.
Took lots of pictures, enjoy:

Posted by: kg6dxn Nov 13 2010, 09:32 AM

Awesome! Speachless...

Posted by: scotty b Nov 13 2010, 09:38 AM

Your work is amazing, your attention to detail is second to none, and I have no doubt that the car will be one the finest 914's out there. BUT...... how are you going to be able to work on the car with all of this frame work in the way ? You have the floors out and to put them back in properly you need to be underneath the car, all of the chassis stiffening will need to be done from inside the cabin, hell hole repair necessitates you be able to get inside the engine bay etc., etc., etc,

Your door frame jig has me rethinking my bracing setup

Posted by: ghuff Nov 13 2010, 09:43 AM

I love 914's they seem to attract the most detail oriented people and a lot of perfectionists. Most down to earth good people as well.

Cheers to you Hontec, amazing work.

Totally Wayne's World and not worthy right now.

Posted by: Hontec Nov 13 2010, 10:20 AM

Thank you Sir!!!

Posted by: Hontec Nov 13 2010, 10:28 AM

Thank you!

I see your point, but the Jig has been built to be able to repair/construct any fixed point on the 914. What you see now is every jig installed which is not nescessary. I just placed them on there for construction and testfit. You are absolutely right: it's impossible to do any work like this.
My car will need only the 4 bumper attachment points and the sideframe supports. I am going to cut out the entire inside from fuel tank firewall, front firewall, bottom, rear firewall, shock mounts and trunk.......all of it goes...
Then I will construct a complete new inside for the oem 914 shell.... it will involve a front carrera 4 suspension setup and for the rear it will get a 944S2 turbo rear setup in which the rear 944 axle will be part of an engine/transmission cradle which I will be able to completely drop by only a few bolts and disconnecting a few lines (dry break couplers).....

The jig is merely a preparation for the huge amount of work which is to come......I'm afraid this is just the start...........

Thank you for your compliments, they are fuel for my motivation!!

Randall

Posted by: Hontec Nov 13 2010, 10:29 AM

Thank you very much!!

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Nov 13 2010, 11:00 AM

The factory did it this way too... Exquisite work. About time someone made these.

Here are Porsche Tools P861 and P862 as shown in the factory manual and tool catalog. More factory chassis fab tools on my Classic website.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Hontec Nov 13 2010, 11:17 AM

I first saw these at the Dutch 914 specialist, he had the doorframes made by someone based on the factory jigs, Later when I purchased all the oem manuals and part catalogs, it also contained a section with these tools. basically my front suspension mounting point jig looks almost exactly like the factory tool too..

Only thing I do not have is a window frame jig, but to build that would be only about 2 days of extra work and a bit of steel.....

Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 13 2010, 11:21 AM

You are delightfully insane This is like art work to me

Posted by: Hontec Nov 13 2010, 11:27 AM

I've been hearing that a lot lately.... thanks for the compliment, greatly appreciated!


Randall

Posted by: Jerry Nov 13 2010, 01:51 PM

OMG!!! Your "artwork" boggles the mind !!! It's unbelievable !! Keep it up and always take photos !!

Posted by: Hontec Nov 13 2010, 02:41 PM

Thank you Jerry, I will!

Posted by: RJMII Nov 20 2010, 12:54 AM

What would yo do with the front dif?(that would have been the rear in the subie) Just run it upside down?

Posted by: carr914 Nov 20 2010, 05:31 AM

AMAZING, this is one of those Threads that I can't wait til the next Post

Posted by: Hontec Nov 20 2010, 01:42 PM

Yes Exactly.

Posted by: Hontec Nov 20 2010, 01:46 PM

Thank you very much! Sorry to keep you waiting but my job is 9 days on, 9 days off so work on the 914 is done in 9 day intervals

In Hongkong now, back again on monday!

Thanks

Randall

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 20 2010, 02:15 PM

Every time I see your work it inspires me to go work on my car. Simply stunning!

Posted by: Hontec Nov 20 2010, 02:50 PM

Funny you mention that because somehow when I was browsing the web for info on the 914, and making my mind up wether to buy one or a 911, I ran into pictures of your car and they were the reason I Pulled through on the 914 and ended up here! So basically you contributed bigtime

Posted by: RJMII Nov 20 2010, 03:07 PM

Dana, I bumped your thread for you so you can find it easier tonight when you're done working on your car.


Randall, I'm very much looking forward to your next 9 days of 914.

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Nov 20 2010, 07:25 PM

Randall, are you using Klingspor flap-discs for grinding (post #128) ?
Great progress and inspiration. I actually convinced my wife to take a cruise in the beast ...deafening fun !
Marty

Posted by: Hontec Nov 20 2010, 10:47 PM

Yep those discs that have small pieces of sandpaper overlapping eachother. Don't know the brand really, they sell them here at my local hardware store. They work super!

My wife likes to come along but I can't be to enthousiastic in my driving
I also have an S2000 that we take on holiday to Italy Every year, but when I took the local curved Hill roads a little sporty last year, she got sick

Posted by: PeeGreen 914 Nov 21 2010, 01:44 PM

I dream of your project and the anklebiter when I sleep

Very nice work Randel. I can wait to see what you do next.

Posted by: Bee Jay Nov 21 2010, 03:23 PM

Wow! Simply Wow!
Bee Jay

Posted by: andytat Dec 12 2010, 08:23 AM

Just Awesome Randel!!!
Any updates?

Andy

Posted by: Hontec Dec 12 2010, 02:34 PM

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the compliment, I am currently constructing the right door frame jig, after that it's time to coat the complete jig and start removing the fenders.

Been busy collecting some parts and special tools for the fabrication of the tubeframe and some parts for the intended brakes.

Also busy building a rollcage for a friend's car..........so it's pretty crowded in the workshop right now....

More updates soon....

Thanks and best regards

Randall

PS: How is Singapore nowadays, haven't been there in a while. The Brick and Livingroom still there? Orchard Tower??

Posted by: Hontec Dec 16 2010, 10:44 AM

Today I decided to do some caliper rebuilding, or at least start with it. I bought myself 2 sets of 928 S4 4 pot brembo calipers. I got a good deal on them and fell in love with them just because they have the Porsche logo cast onto the side, whereas the newer ones (993) have it stickered on...

I have one set Pré 1989 and one set post 1989, there is a difference in piston diameter and type of dust seal.

The pré 1989 have 42 and 36mm pistons and these will go on the back with 930 turbo discs 309x28

The post 1989 have 44 and 36mm pistons and they will go onto the front, also with 930 turbo discs (300x32mm)

This will give me plenty of stopping power I gues...

I am literally completely giving these calipers a teardown and rebuild and I will replace every part by a new one....calipers will be powdercoated porsche yellow and I will then machine the porsche logo down to bare aluminium again and then the whole caliper will again be powdercoated in clear.

The only downside is that the rebuild parts are more than double the money of each caliper......but my motto is : do it right the first time:





Pics:



















Then started the teardown and naturally everything is as stuck as can be, not strange since I have the feeling these were never rebuilt before
Bolts wouldn't come loose, so I had to machine of the heads and weld on new bolts so I could get them out in a normal way:

















The result: one caliper stripped and ready for a remake:













Also got myself a christmas present and it came in the mail today: A Baileigh tube nother...........this is one hell of a machine...........it will make life incredibly easier..

Posted by: kg6dxn Dec 16 2010, 11:28 AM

Here's another tube chassis build for you to ponder...

http://www.negativereinforcementracing.com/update.htm

Posted by: Hontec Dec 16 2010, 11:55 AM

Thanks, looks really nice, but my front inner fenders need to be stock, since the chassisnumber is located there, if I touch that, I'm doomed......

So mine will have a mix, some stock features with tubeframe....

Posted by: Jeroen Dec 16 2010, 09:07 PM

did you buy that tube notcher somewhere in the Netherlands, or did you order it in the UK?

Posted by: Hontec Dec 16 2010, 10:54 PM

Baileigh UK, www.bifabuk.co.uk.... ask for Adrian Crawley...

Posted by: swood Dec 16 2010, 11:21 PM

Great job.

Posted by: nsr-jamie Dec 17 2010, 03:43 AM

I love this thread!! Your work is awesome !!!!! I sure hope you will keep the updates coming as I really look forward to seeing them. Incredible work...I wish I could do something like that to my car. Best of luck in your project. Cheers

Posted by: Hontec Dec 17 2010, 06:00 AM

Thank you guys for the positive comments, greatly appreciated!

Work on the car is a tad slower than usual, had some chores around the house to do and I am currently building 2 rollcages for some friends' cars, but I intend to finish the jig on short notice and send her out for coating..

Posted by: FourBlades Dec 17 2010, 08:56 AM

Post pictures of friend's cars!

We don't care, we are fabrication nuts here!

John

Posted by: Hontec Dec 17 2010, 11:41 AM

Thanks John,

I know, but I'll stick to my 914 in this topic...

Thanks

Randall

Posted by: RJMII Dec 17 2010, 11:53 AM

Randall, it's okay to start another thread/topic. We really like to see pics of your work!

Posted by: Hontec Dec 17 2010, 04:03 PM

I'll think it over, thanks for the faith!!

Posted by: adambo Dec 27 2010, 12:42 PM

I'm dying for an update Randall!

Posted by: Hontec Dec 28 2010, 12:54 PM

Thanks! but with the holidays and some other projects for friends, I've been kind of busy!

Posted by: KELTY360 Dec 28 2010, 01:21 PM

Nice to at least see a bit of a mess in your shop.

You and MrAnklebiter seem to do incredible work effortlessly without even getting your hair messed up.

Posted by: Hontec Dec 28 2010, 04:14 PM

Haha, lol......for me it's a mess indeed!

Thanks!!! luckily I don't have any hair anymore....

Posted by: d914 Dec 28 2010, 04:48 PM

either do most of us!!!!

Posted by: Hontec Jan 7 2011, 11:40 AM

Well not a major update, but some work on the right side door jig:











Some posts earlier I started rebuilding the 928S4 calipers, I since then fell in love with these awesome calipers and I have decided to use them on all 4 corners including the 304 x 32mm discs. They are way cool and suit my desires perfectly...they will give me way more stopping power than I will need, even if I go wild on the HP numbers.



OK, I admit collecting has gotten slightly out of hand, but I got a good deal and couln't pass up on them:







The discs in the picture are for fitting purposes only, they will be replaced by Zimmermann crossdrilled versions.

I've also had some interesting talks with Elite Transmissions and they can make me exactly what I need: a direct fit sequential six speed to the Subaru boxer, where I can use standard subaru clutch/flywheel parts....and it's light!!!

Posted by: Britain Smith Jan 7 2011, 12:15 PM

I eagerly await more details on the transmission.

-Britain

Posted by: Hontec Jan 7 2011, 12:28 PM

Mid-engine RWD direct subaru fit sequential 6-speed. Big choice of gear ratio's, final drive ratio's and comes with Salisbury plated limited slip differential.

It uses Subaru flywheel/clutch/throwout bearing/starter/clutch slave cilinder and even the stock subaru transmission side CV joints.

Posted by: Britain Smith Jan 7 2011, 01:03 PM

What does it weight...and cost?

-Britain

Posted by: Hontec Jan 7 2011, 01:07 PM

Weighs around 50 kilograms, price over 10k USD....

Posted by: Randal Jan 7 2011, 03:40 PM

Just wanted to say how much fun it is watching your thread Randall.

Simply excellent work and you make us all jealous with you clean processes and great garage.

BTW my 914 transmission with a Guard clutch type limit slip weights 100 lbs.

Posted by: RJMII Jan 7 2011, 03:55 PM

Thanks for the info on that trans company! It looks like they have an option on one of their transmissions to match a bellhousing to the purchaser's engine.

Posted by: Hontec Jan 7 2011, 04:00 PM

Thank you very much Randal!

Thanks for the weight info, I only have an empty transmission case to weigh,
So they are almost equal, the 6 speed sequential being a little bit heavier .

Not a big issue since the Subaru will produce around 200hp more than the porsche 2,0L. However I'm aiming at 350~400HP.

Posted by: Hontec Jan 7 2011, 04:03 PM

Custom bellhousings can be made to customers specifications.....but like everything with this caliber transmissions: it comes with a pricetag....




But they are so cool!

Posted by: RJMII Jan 7 2011, 05:39 PM

It looked like the pricetag converted to about as much as it would cost for an adapter plate. (or what it *did* cost for an adapter plate when I bought one for my car.)

Posted by: Hontec Jan 8 2011, 03:53 AM

True, but the adapterplates usually come with a flywheel , clutchplate etc.

With these transmissions you have to buy the bellhousings with the transmission because the input shaft will have to be custom built and splined to fit your specific application, not plug and play like an adapter plate/kit, you have to bring in your engine. Also most of these use a very expensive hydraulic clutch release bearing and not a slave cilinder....

The bellhousings are usually around 500 GBP, so 775 usd, a good AP or Tilton hydraulic release bearing around 300-600usd, then the shifter, gear indicator, potentiometer...etc etc etc....refab the trans mount etc...

Just to give an idea that the numbers roll upwards far quicker than with an adapterplate/flywheel kit like Kennedy....but in my opinion; once you've driven sequential....it will become an addiction.......

Posted by: Rod Jan 16 2011, 04:45 AM

Hi Randall, First time I've seen this thread, don't know how I missed it, but I did. Wow is all I can say - you are so obviously addicted to your welder, and what skills you possess!

I can't believe that with your experience and life with motor vehicles that you decided to build your dream from a little 914 They really are underated little cars and seem to be driven by the worlds best people too!

Enjoyed my Sunday morning read, thankyou - now subscribed

Posted by: Hontec Jan 16 2011, 05:31 AM

Thanks for your positive input!! greatly appreciated!!!

Yes I am indeed addicted to my welder, I love to weld things!

In my quest to find a car for myself to modify, I stumbled across the 914 and fell in love with it. The RWD mid-engine setup lured me straight away and my thoughts were that this car has so much possibility for any kind of modification and layout...
I just had to buy one and go find out for myself!!

The initial idea of converting it to 4WD is giving me more and more hassle with the yearly inspection guys, and I can't seem to be able to find even one guy in that department to sit down and have a constructive eye to eye talk with me in which I can explain and show my intentions........it's starting to wear me out to the point that I am now going for the tubeframe mid-engine rwd setup, just like stock, only with a Subaru engine and a sequential transmission...

Ok i bought most of the parts to go AWD, but it's not going to set me back much...

I'm currently building a rollcage for a friend but it will be finished soon and then back again full speed on the 914!!

I can't wait!!!

Thanks again for your positive input!

Randall

Posted by: Britain Smith Jan 16 2011, 12:31 PM

We love to see fab pictures, post some of the rollcage you are building.

-Britain

Posted by: Jeroen Jan 16 2011, 12:37 PM

+1

Posted by: Rod Jan 16 2011, 02:47 PM

Hey, no worries. Your right, the 914 is the most awesome little car out there.. I can understand why you want to do a 4wd version, and it's a shame that your countries red tape will stop you getting there, but in my opinion the 914 with it's low cog, and great engine positioning, especially with the subie lump makes for a perfect rwd beast. I'm sure you can get the ancillaries in the right locations to get the balance right and am sure you will. Are you going wide?? I for one one love to see this as a narrow car... I think it's more muscular with the right amout of rubber under the arches...

Posted by: Hontec Jan 16 2011, 04:03 PM

Posted by: Hontec Jan 16 2011, 04:05 PM

Yes, I'm going wide......to which extend , I'm not sure yet..... GT. GT+ or Sheridan..

Posted by: clow Jan 29 2011, 08:52 PM

Your work is amazing!

Very neat project you have going.

Any updates!?



Clow

Posted by: Hontec Feb 2 2011, 02:14 PM

Still busy with friends'cars....almost done....can't wait to get back to work on the 914.......


What's keeping me busy now: Building a full cage for a Nürburgring Honda Civic:

Posted by: Jeroen Feb 2 2011, 02:22 PM

nice!

Posted by: Britain Smith Feb 2 2011, 04:18 PM

Holy Crap...I see something on the floor in your shop

-Britain

Posted by: Krieger Feb 2 2011, 07:31 PM

Were you standing on the ladder for the 3rd shot or something solid?

Posted by: stewteral Feb 2 2011, 08:39 PM

Hi Randall,

I just had to add my admiration for your welding, engineering skills and Craftsmanship!
Your work is so good that you could work at any race shop in the world!

After seeing all the incredible work you did on your 914, I have been wondering where you learned your impressive skills and what type of work you do for a living. I have not been able to produce the level of work I was proud of until I was in my 50's, but you are still under 40 and so skilled!

Just my Opinion: the 914 is a tightly designed package engineered around a very Low Cg drive-train, mid-engine and rear wheel drive. To try to make it 4-wheel drive would simply take the car too far-afield of its origin. With the car's Low Polar Moment of Inertia, even 4-wheel drive would probably NOT help its "Bad manners" in the wet. Of course, Holland is WET a great deal of the time. (With my Chevy-V8 power, when it rains here in California, I won't even CONSIDER taking the car out, after the 75 MPH "tank-slapper" experience next to a BIG diesel rig in the rain, on a bridge, a couple years back.)

So I APPLAUD going to a TUBE-Frame with your 914 and suggest trying another car for 4-wheel drive fun. The Audi A4-S4 is a pretty impressive package to look at.

PLEASE keep all those GREAT photos coming! I learn from all your good work,

Best,
Terry

Posted by: KELTY360 Feb 2 2011, 09:01 PM

Posted by: Hontec Feb 3 2011, 02:48 AM

Damn....you caught me.....

Posted by: Hontec Feb 3 2011, 02:52 AM

There's an attic there.....always a nice pic from above...

Posted by: Hontec Feb 3 2011, 02:59 AM

Thank you for the compliment!

I started working on cars in my uncle's garage from age 10 in the holidays, so I've been wrenching now for 27 years

He taught me welding as well, gave me a welder and an old Mercedes and told me to replace the bottom......and from there it went wrong........never stopped again.....I love to weld!

The 4wd 914 idea I have to abandon, I fear I'm going to hit a wall when it comes to the paperwork/burocracy here....I tried, but I have gotten no coöperation or even someone that will listen.... So unfortunately I give up...

I'm keeping it RWD but with a sequential transmission...

Ow and my daily job is flying a Boeing 747..I did have a company where we built race/rally cars and even built Dakar cars but I quit, having my own company is not something I enjoyed.


Thanks and best regards

Randall

Posted by: DEC Feb 3 2011, 09:23 AM

Randall
will you build a full tube frame or a part tube frame like
the "Anklebiter" build?

I love your work

Posted by: Hontec Feb 3 2011, 12:34 PM

Hello Wilco,

I first want to take off the fenders, have it mediablasted and then remove the complete inside. Then I will start to tubeframe it. Since I would like to make the suspension a double wishbone, I will re-design the complete rear. If possible, I would like to keep the stock inner fenders, but I think they will go in the end.
That all depends on what type of fenders I will re-install.. as of now, I will have them made in dry carbon.

But first of all we'll start stripping and see where we go from there....

So many ideas...........

Posted by: Hontec Feb 8 2011, 12:24 PM

Finally found time today to start work on the right-side door jig. Will probably finish it tomorrow, then a few small things to add to the jig and then we can start the actual work on the chassis....yeah!!! can't wait.

Posted by: bandjoey Feb 8 2011, 01:08 PM

Unbelievable welding work and body bracing. Make this in 2 or 3 parts with a pin to connect the parts, and you'll probably sell all the body shops and some members. Best I've seen on rebuild posts.

Posted by: Hontec Feb 8 2011, 01:29 PM

Thanks! but to be honest, one jig for now is enough.... this was an inmense job and not to mention if I add up all steel and materials.....a pretty expensive one....
I've already had offers for this thing, but I'm quite sure I'm going to need this for a while...

Posted by: Hontec Feb 8 2011, 02:22 PM

Also sent my fuel gauge to BigMark, this is what it's going to become, except the silver center button...that's deleted.

I am so in love with this thing, absolute art:

Posted by: stock93 Feb 8 2011, 02:35 PM

Man that's an impressive jig! I really enjoy seeing other peoples projects that involve this level of fab work. Keep up the great work.

Posted by: majkos Feb 8 2011, 05:10 PM

You, Sir, beyond an Artist!

Never fails to amaze me your level of perfection.
And so simple.

Thanks for taking the time to show us your progress!

Posted by: Hontec Feb 9 2011, 10:36 AM

Thanks guys for all the positive reactions! Hope you guys are not getting sick of all the pictures, I'm also taking them as reference for the rebuild.

Today I finished the right door jig. I had forgotten how much work it was to build one.....but it's done.....


















































































Also since the jig is done and I can start actual work on the chassis, I started pulling it apart to take to the powdercoater.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Feb 9 2011, 12:00 PM

Off the hook!

Posted by: McMark Feb 9 2011, 12:08 PM

Ummmmmm....... no. Can you post more pictures please.

Powdercoating is really thick. Are you concerned about that added thickness affecting how your jigs fit? I would think plating would be preferable because of that.

Posted by: carr914 Feb 9 2011, 12:18 PM

You will be Very Happy with the results !

Posted by: Hontec Feb 9 2011, 12:24 PM

In anticipation of that I overdrilled the holes in the jig 0,5mm.

I know the coating guy very well, I will ask him to coat a thin layer with a limited amount of microns.


To be honest, when I put her on and measured I already had a few mm of difference in the chassis, compared to the modern race car next to it, it's nothing.
My other reasoning is that the only difference it will create is a few microns of coating, I've had so many things coated with this guy, from chassis to engine parts and never had fitting issues before...

If I incorporate the difference in each direction, I will still be ok, chassiswise...

And if there is really no other way, I'll blank the contact patches and primer them lightly...

Then again; how many microns of material get lost with the blasting? (purely scientifically?)

Posted by: Hontec Feb 10 2011, 03:08 PM

Today I removed the right rear Fender and right door sill. Actually not bad what was beneath, the Hellhole repair can be seen very well and it's going to be replaced by a new part.

Somebody had a good old party with filler, the rear corner and the part over the vent hole were completely filled up by this stuff and luckily no water had caught underneath so the steel below is free of rust.. Also the sail panel is in excellent condition, only some minor surface rust on the little sill on there..

Although it looked grimm, when I cleaned it up a little it was actually pretty good...

pics:

Posted by: sawtooth Feb 10 2011, 03:22 PM

Nice, how long did it take you to drill out all the welds? Removing the whole quarter panel seems much cleaner then slicing the quarter just to get at the long area.

Posted by: Hontec Feb 10 2011, 03:39 PM

It took me 4-1/2 hours to do this including the doorsill... I'm glad i took the whole fender off instead of cutting a piece out...Now everything is easily accesible for welding.

Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 10 2011, 04:48 PM

You are not normal...but in a great way!

Posted by: Hontec Feb 10 2011, 04:57 PM

Whahaha thanks, come to think of it: ....that's what my wife says too.....

Posted by: Jeroen Feb 10 2011, 05:43 PM

very little rust! you must be a happy man

Posted by: nathansnathan Feb 10 2011, 05:54 PM

Wow deja vu with the fender removal - not too many people willing to get into that madness .

It is weird that must have changed how the striker plate mounts - mine was attached to the door jam itself where yours is attached to that bracket that is attached to the inner fender.

You can see my version of the right rear fender removal on my build thread
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=113507&st=28

I've been following your thread, truly inspiring. The last post currently, last picture in my thread I was thinking of you as I took it, Hontec. -I had to climb up a ladder and hold my camera up to the ceiling as I don't have a loft

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.914club.com-11782-1296936537.8.jpg

Posted by: markb Feb 10 2011, 08:04 PM

Posted by: Hontec Feb 11 2011, 06:18 AM

Problem solved: normally they blast, then coat a primer and then coat a color. For these kind of things they only blast and put on a very thin coat to keep it from rusting again.....

So minimal thickness added....

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 11 2011, 09:05 AM

Amazing work as usual, you just got me motivated to get some work done on mine today!

Posted by: Hontec Feb 11 2011, 12:46 PM

Thanks man, that's the same effect your work has on my motivation!

Posted by: Hontec Feb 11 2011, 12:51 PM

So, picked up work again today on the front right fender. When I started within the first few minutes I discovered that the fender had suffered an accident once upon a time and the fender was repaired by using bad welds and lots of bondo......
That thing is never getting back on, so decided to sacrifice it......

At first glance rust appeared again but with a bit of cleaning it was turned into perfect metal and not in need of repair...

Posted by: Dave_Darling Feb 11 2011, 01:26 PM

Wow!

If anyone ever asks me how these cars are put together, I'm just going to point them to this thread and these amazing pictures...

--DD

Posted by: r_towle Feb 11 2011, 01:33 PM

Where did you get those wheels for the table?
Are they adjustable in very small degrees to level it on an uneven floor?

Rich

Posted by: Hontec Feb 11 2011, 01:51 PM

they are standard front wheels as used on trailers over here, they can be adjusted about 8 inches in height

Posted by: nathansnathan Feb 11 2011, 02:26 PM

nice! It looks relatively good in there. Mine was seriously nasty.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.914club.com-11782-1291431278.1.jpg

Any sort of plan on what metal you'll put back in there? ... I'm a bit stumped on that part myself

Posted by: Hontec Feb 11 2011, 02:56 PM

Wow! yours looks quite bad compared to mine!

Put metal back? Fender wise? Mmmmm I'm going to use fiberglass complete fenders Gt width and have them made in dry carbon..

Posted by: nathansnathan Feb 11 2011, 03:03 PM

that sounds like a good plan. [gross understatement]

Posted by: Smitty911 Feb 12 2011, 01:37 AM

WOW, best hour I've spent in a long time.

Truley amazing work.

Based on the quality of your work, I'd fly to the North Pole in a Paper Airplane with you.

FYI - You don't have OCD, if you did it would be CDO - That's alphabetical.

Smitty

Posted by: Hontec Feb 12 2011, 05:30 AM

Thanks for the compliments and confidence! Lol about the CDO....

Posted by: ottox914 Feb 12 2011, 10:42 AM

Good Sir, you have re-defined insanity.

I completely approve. Amazing craftsmanship. Keep up the good work and the pics.

If you are married, your wife should be sainted for putting up with your new obsession.

Posted by: Hontec Feb 12 2011, 11:21 AM

Thanks! gave my wife a horse....that levels it out pretty much timewise.....

Posted by: Gudhjem Mar 4 2011, 01:41 PM

Amazing stuff.

Those pics of the fender-cowl area are the best I've seen. I've been struggling to figure out exactly how the pieces fit together there as I repair mine (I'll be using metal).

Posted by: Hontec Mar 5 2011, 07:14 AM

Gradually getting things back in batches from the powdercoater, just 2 more fixtures and the main bed of the jig and it's completely protected from the elements:























Also had some hubs ,discs and stubaxles mediablasted:







I am now building the new hubs for the rear to enable the car to have double wishbone suspension, almost have all the parts machined and cut and ready to be welded together.

When that's done, I will have the car chemically stripped and I will build a jig to be able to make and position my double A-arms in the rear. This main frame will run from front to aft, making it my new full flat bottom and making it one hell of a strong chassis...

Posted by: Hontec Mar 22 2011, 08:59 AM

Have been to busy working on my house and not finding time to work on the 914.
But yesterday something came in the mail that Iwas really looking forward to getting, well the wait was worthwile, it's a beauty!!

Posted by: nsr-jamie Mar 22 2011, 09:14 AM

Excellent work as usual and a nice quad gauge too...can I ask where you got that from please?

Posted by: Hontec Mar 22 2011, 10:07 AM

New Vintage, bigmarks design...

Excellent service!!!

Posted by: PeeGreen 914 Mar 22 2011, 10:47 AM

too cool

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 22 2011, 11:04 AM

Great choice! The gauge looks nice!

Posted by: McMark Mar 22 2011, 11:25 AM

That surface really shouldn't be powdercoated, IMHO. It's machined bare steel from the factory.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 22 2011, 12:28 PM

What do you think the consequences would be? (serious question)

Posted by: Hontec Mar 22 2011, 01:00 PM

We're talking about microns here, in my humble opinion it's negligable...
I've machined these hubs down to being perfectly round (in order to try and make new hubs for independent suspension) , trust me, in those days they didn't take tolerances to higher levels...man these were way off... not level, and not round. I ended up using a conus to press the hub onto the lathe, to try and make it as round and centered as possible.

Thus my conclusion is: it won't matter at all..

Posted by: McMark Mar 22 2011, 01:02 PM

Worst case scenario is probably insignificant potential movement of the bearing. The bearing bore has a certain depth which corresponds to the dimension of the bearing. The depth has now changed slightly.

I guess I just tend to feel that if the porsche factory took the time to mask that section before paint or machine it only after it was painted, there is a reason for that. I can't honestly claim that it's bad to coat that area, but IMHO it shouldn't be coated. I guess I'm kind of splitting hairs.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 22 2011, 04:18 PM

I powdercoat all my arms the exact same way (leave the bearings in, etc).

I think once the bearing cover plate is torqued down, they ain't moving. I thought that was what you were getting at but, yeah, splitting hairs I would think.

Posted by: Hontec Apr 26 2011, 11:50 AM

It's been a while since I had the chance to do some work on the car. Busy finishing up the last car (friends) in my shop and been doing some work on the house.

Lately I have this voice in my head ( and I must say: the voice has been stimulated by my wife and friends and certain parts suppliers ((namely the German Porsche dealership in my dad's town)) that's telling me to not cut up this perfectly good chassis, with hardly any rust, and to make her beautiful again and put in a nice 6-cylinder...........I must admit I am strongly leaning that way......I can get plenty of chassis' in way worse condition than mine and do the 4x4 thing to one of those. ( after all; most of that car will be cut out to make way for the 4x4 stuff)

So in anticipation of this plan, I bought me some goodies. Today the first parts arrived and many more to be expected:














































The car will be GT fendered but I still want to make those fenders and doors out of dry carbon....
It will also get a rollcage...


more pics when all the other stuff get's in....

Posted by: veltror Apr 26 2011, 11:55 AM

Can I ask where you got the front valence? I found a new but used one if you see what i mean in my thread. Don't tellme these are still available new...

Posted by: Hontec Apr 26 2011, 12:08 PM

The porsche dealer managed to order this one for me, so yes there are a few left in stock I guess..

Posted by: MDG Apr 26 2011, 12:25 PM

I think it depends on how energetic the guys in the warehouse are on any given day; sometimes it's easier to just go "Nah, we're out of those." But sometimes they actually do some digging, look and find!

Those parts look great. Can't wait for more updates.

Posted by: db9146 Apr 26 2011, 01:22 PM

BTW, the hardwoods floors in the parts warehouse / jig storage room are a nice touch. What sort of finish is that? I might want to try that in our dining room.




Wow.

Posted by: Hontec Apr 26 2011, 01:27 PM

Thanks, The floors in the jig storage room are laminate floors, and the hardwood "floor" in the last pics is my outdoor dining table...

Posted by: Hontec Apr 26 2011, 01:30 PM

True!, i must say the parts guy at this dealership is worth his weight in gold, he goed to great lenghts...

Posted by: trojanhorsepower Apr 26 2011, 01:35 PM

I am really glad to hear that you are thinking along these lines. Like you said there are lots of rusted out ones to cut up, and after all you have that magnificent jig so....

Posted by: Hontec Apr 26 2011, 03:57 PM

I think it would grace the chassis all the more...........and it would give me a chance to use the jig more than once

Posted by: Randal Apr 26 2011, 05:33 PM

Randall - glad to hear your decisoin. Here is a suggestion for you: Put in a 3.6. You will never be disappointed and it will go like a greased monkey.

I don't know what they are going for now, but probably 8-10K and with the dollar taking a dip a good investment for you.

And you can take it to the track, drive it wide open all day and all you have to do is change the oil.

My racing partner, Bill Pickering bought a 911 race car with a 3.6 and we autox and tracked that car. It was so much fun and so little maintenance.

Just my .02cents.

Posted by: Hontec Apr 27 2011, 01:32 AM

Randal


You're absolutely right, The 3,6 from the 89-93 964 is a wonderful engine..... what also would be a great option for this car imho is a 3,2 with PMO manifolds (or jenvey) and go EFI with a crankfire distributorless ignition... ....No troubles whatsoever.


Randall

Posted by: Hontec Apr 27 2011, 06:16 AM

Took some pictures of the old Velios 914-6 mount I bought last week.

















Also ordered one of the last J-West version 1 shift rod kits, better have one on the shelf..

Posted by: Randal Apr 27 2011, 06:24 AM

I think one of the tricks with a 3.6 is swapping the manifold for a 3.2 which flows better. Not a nose bleed either.

Having a car with "No troubles whatsoever" is a good thing.

But you've had a few race cars already so your up on that learning curve.

Posted by: Hontec Apr 27 2011, 07:13 AM

ok, good to know.
One thing I would like to stick to on the 914 is something that looks like Webers, In my opinion the Webers are ultracool, however they need so much constant attention and I plan on taking the car on holidays to Italy, which means crossing the alps and I've seen the troubles with carbs and Altitude differences......

So I'm going to settle for ITB's with a map sensor and cold start enrichment.... A nice crank trigger and a good Bosch fuel pump....it will give me less sleepless nights ( I hope )

Posted by: FourBlades Apr 27 2011, 08:01 AM

Are you planning to plumb a common point to read your manifold air pressure?

I always thought ITBs and MAP do not work well together due to noisy signal
at low RPM from all the intake pulses. Don't most people just use alpha N with
ITBs?

John

Posted by: Hontec Apr 27 2011, 09:10 AM

Yes,use a vacuum manifold and base the fuel map on a combination of map and tps, that does the trick.

Posted by: Jeroen Apr 27 2011, 09:39 AM

have you checked out the KMS ITBs yet?

Posted by: Hontec Apr 27 2011, 09:56 AM

No, not for the 911, I've worked with the older roller throttle bodies, they were very nice.

The only thing that holds me back from Kronenburg is the people themselves, I've dealt with them in the past when I helped Biesheuvel set up the Chevrolet Kalos challenge, they supplied the wiring harnesses and engines and it was no fun working with them........no way near to fun....

Posted by: Jeroen Apr 27 2011, 10:05 AM

I have no experience with Kronenburg myself, but thought the ITBs are reasonably priced (compared to other brands)

Posted by: Hontec Apr 27 2011, 10:29 AM

true, they are fairly cheap, I wonder if they fit the original manifolds, can't find that.

The Jenveys include a new manifold and are about 300 euro's more expensive for a complete kit( but they do include manifolds and linkage)

If the kms would fit directly to the head, that would be so much shorter ( however for mixture/evaporation not entirely beneficial, also depends on max rpm etc)


The TWM itb's have a nice option, an extra set of injectors over the horns, like the F1 engines





We once did this on a honda B16 1,6L engine and switched/transitioned at 6000rpm from the regular injectors to the ones in the horns: it gave us an extra 37HP in the 6000~9500 rpm range............would make considerably more on larger displacement.... fit the extra set of injectors in the filter housing, need an expensive stand-alone though to drive 12 injectors.... (motec)

Posted by: Britain Smith Apr 27 2011, 10:35 AM

You should definitely check out some of the fuel injection systems from Rothsport

http://rothsport.com/Products/Engine/Fuel-Injection-Systems/FI-Systems.htm

-Britain

Posted by: Hontec Apr 27 2011, 10:47 AM

Damn, the low rise system is what I had in mind, thanks Britain! I found my system!!

Posted by: Britain Smith Apr 27 2011, 10:57 AM

Jeff over at Rothsport builds some awesome engines. I really like their slidevalve set-up. Give him a ring, tell him that Britain sent ya.



-Britain

Posted by: Jeroen Apr 27 2011, 11:01 AM

Brit, do you know pricing on the Rothsport kits?

Posted by: BKLA Apr 27 2011, 11:26 AM

low rise, complete... about $8k USD...

I looked into it for my 2.7 RS spec motor. Great system, beautifully made.

Just a wee bit out of my current budget!

edit - BTW: that price was to have Rothsport install. I dont know if they have a "kit" to install.

Posted by: Hontec Apr 27 2011, 12:13 PM

that is quite a pricetag, by the way: the throttlebodies/ units themselves, look exactly like Jenveys.....

Posted by: BKLA Apr 27 2011, 12:19 PM

take a look at the PMO throttle bodies...

http://www.pmocarb.com/products.htm

Posted by: Hontec Apr 27 2011, 12:45 PM

Yep, seen those, very nice as well......quite a different pricetag...

Posted by: Hontec Apr 27 2011, 01:32 PM

Now we're talking:

Posted by: Britain Smith Apr 27 2011, 02:43 PM

I believe that the $8K pricetag included everything like the ECU, tuning, etc. It is worth giving Jeff at Rothsport a call.

-Britain

Posted by: Randal Apr 27 2011, 03:51 PM

No question, slick!

Good thing your not living close to Laguna Seca. You'd never pass the 92db sound limit with those air gulpers.

You'll probably need to wear ear plugs, but with those on a 3.6 the sound would be magical.

When you start her up you need to tell everyone around to keep their hands and fingers in their pockets. And no ties allowed.

Posted by: Randal Apr 28 2011, 08:05 AM

Question:

What is the advantage of spraying the fuel from the very top of the TB?

Is there some advantage with atomization?

Posted by: rohar Apr 28 2011, 08:11 AM

Twin batch injection adds one more tunable thing to the pile. At low air velocity, the lower batch of injectors delivers a more effective atomization. At higher air velocity, the top set delivers better atomization. Of course then you have to deal with the overlap and the math starts to get a bit much so many run the lowers all the time and bring the uppers in as secondaries when load hits a given threshold.

Posted by: Hontec May 10 2011, 02:24 PM

Britain this is for you:


The old floor got dirty, so instead of cleaning, I decided to put a new one in alltogether. My new company logo is green/black, so I used it in the floor....

Posted by: Britain Smith May 10 2011, 02:27 PM

What did I do?

Looks awesome!

-Britain

Posted by: Hontec May 10 2011, 02:28 PM

whahaa, lol....you're always telling me there is stuff on the floor....

Posted by: Britain Smith May 10 2011, 02:48 PM

Ha, your garage is cleaner than my house!

-Britain

Posted by: Jeroen May 11 2011, 05:01 AM

My dad had the exact same tiles put on his garage floor last year. Awesome stuff

Posted by: Hontec May 11 2011, 11:59 AM

this floor is amazing, the old one was still perfect after 5 years of abuse, only replaced it because I had water damage in the garage.
Never going back to stone/concrete or epoxy in the garage....this is the best

Posted by: quadracerx May 11 2011, 04:50 PM

Ok..so is it actual tile or VCT or? It is cool...looks awesome...any experts know how it works over a concrete floor that has moisture issues? Any special prep to make this work in this situation?

Thanks for your input...

Steve

Posted by: BKLA May 11 2011, 07:11 PM

What is the product? Looks really nice!

Posted by: mrgjones May 11 2011, 07:21 PM

I'm about 6 miles away. When they're out there racing it sounds like they're racing down my street so I think that noise limit is already blown out! This car would be awesome at Leguna Seca but then again, I can't even get around that track on the xbox.

Posted by: Hontec May 12 2011, 12:41 AM

It's recycled pvc from electricity wire.

My concrete floor had issues when I had water that came in from the outside, the glue they used before reacted with the water and became mushy. Since the florr is sealed, it could not get away.

They removed the old one, put an epoxy floor on the concrete so moist can never penetrate again and then they glued on the new floor with another glue that can withstand anything........they guarantee never to have any issues again....I just pity the one who will ever have to remove this floor..........not in my lifetime they say...

Posted by: Valy Aug 27 2011, 12:13 AM

We want an update!!

Posted by: Hontec Sep 4 2011, 03:38 AM

Sorry for the lack of updates, still in the process of removing body panels/fenders and all stuff that's not going back on before she goes off to be blasted.

Decided to open up the sills from the outside to enable the blaster to reach the inside of the side beams so they can be protected from the elements on the inside before the new panels and new sills go on.

I also lacked to take pictures and bought a 964 that took up some time as well.....

Hope to have some pictures in the next few weeks

Thanks

Randall

Posted by: Hontec Sep 5 2011, 08:27 AM

There is a small update parts wise; I managed to get hold of a set of 15x8 Fuchs wheels, New old stock mudflaps, nos door sills and a nos wiper unit.

Pics:

Posted by: kg6dxn Sep 5 2011, 08:30 AM

That wiper motor is pretty!

Posted by: sixnotfour Sep 5 2011, 10:20 AM

MudFlaps, If you ever want to part with them ? let me know

Posted by: wingnut86 Sep 5 2011, 10:40 AM

...so, the NOS Wiper package was what is US $$?

Can I send your local connection some American "Southern" Barbecue Sauce to tempt them to ship direct to me



Wing-Guh-Nut86

Posted by: Hontec Sep 5 2011, 11:26 AM

I'm going for a GT clone, so most likely I will not use them. I just had the chance to buy them and did. If I do not use them, I will gladly pass them over to you..

Posted by: Hontec Sep 5 2011, 11:28 AM

Not even that much if I recall correctly, under 200$ for sure...

Not sure if he will accept bribes...

Posted by: Hontec Sep 28 2011, 12:51 PM

Today I felt like starting on my rear uprights. I am going to build a custom rear double wishbone suspension using honda bushings. The reason for this is that they are readily available in both urethane and monoball. The brakes will be 309x31mm Porsche 928 S4 discs and 4 pot calipers. I will also install a separate parking brake caliper.

all this fits into the 15"fuchs wheel.

The main reason for doing this is that I wanted to use the big 911 turbo axle stub, which does not fit into the stock 914 trailing arm and this also permits the use of the 911 hub.

So with this in mind I started out today with a bunch of steel and ended up with an upright.

This is the left side, on the bottom the big bushing is the main trailing arm, the small bushing is for the honda toe-link, which permits me to set toe-in/out.
The play in Urethane or monoballs allows me the few degrees of adjustment via the toe link arm.

The upper bushing fits the Honda adjustable camber arm.

I will construct the wishbones in a later stadium when I have the transmission in with the CV's installed to make the pivot point equal to the CV pivot point, this will give me almost no binding of the axle.

The shocks will be short ones attached to the basic frame or maybe pushrod..not decided yet...

For the observant ones amongst us, you'll see I have made clearance on the bottom pivot points in the main hub, on the top I forgot and will need to correct it tomorrow...

Also the backplate needs to be welded on tomorrow...


Pics:

Posted by: Britain Smith Sep 28 2011, 01:03 PM

Cool stuff!

Posted by: Brett W Sep 28 2011, 02:32 PM

The 911 Turbo rear hubs I have don't use a unit bearing they use a crush sleeve and tapered rollers (Pretty sure, haven't looked at them in a couple of months). Not sure how that will work with what you have since it looks like you used a 914 or 911 bearing housing.

Are you going to skin the backside? I would skin it with maybe some 16ga sheet. Keep the weight down, but keep the strength up. No need to skin it in .125 plate.

Good call on the Honda bushings. They are cheap and readily available. The Hardrace stuff would work well for a street car. Of course a custom Johnny Joint would also work pretty well. It would give you the benefit of the heim joint and the damping of the rubber bushing. I am pretty sure Porsche used a similar join in some of the later model stuff.

Have you looked at using the 997 rear suspension? I have most of it here to put on a car at some point. It is all pressure cast aluminum and its nice and light. Build some subframe pickup points and bolt all the stock parts in.

Posted by: moparrob Sep 28 2011, 03:14 PM

Nice Caterpillar welds. Looks good.

Posted by: Hontec Sep 28 2011, 04:16 PM

I have 911 stubs and hubs that are huge and fit the 914 bearing, however the stubs are too wide to fit in the back opening of the 914 trailing arm.







I think I'm going to try urethane first , or I have to use sealed monoballs to pass yearly inspection.

I have looked at a 993 subframe, but I wanted to try and build it myself, just because I like to fab.... I'm going to integrate this all into the tubeframe.

Posted by: Hontec Sep 28 2011, 04:17 PM

Thank you Sir!

Posted by: jaxdream Sep 28 2011, 05:14 PM

Those are SC hubs , you will need a 5mm spacer on each hub before inserting into bearing to work with 914 bearings and the cv stubs you have there. If the 108mm cv stubs don't clear you can go to the 100mm cv stubs and use 944 cvs, and depending on the setup you fab you could possibly use 944 axles , they are a little shorter than 914 axles , just need to source early 915 trans cv stubs 100mm also , same coarse spline as the 901 gear box. Looks great so far !!!!!

Jack

Posted by: Hontec Sep 28 2011, 05:29 PM

Jack,

Thanks

I'm aware of the spacer and I believe Patrick motorsports sells them. There is a 914 member that makes them but he needed more orders to make them and I haven't heard again from him..Otherwise I'll lathe them myself.

These 108mm stubs in the picture fit perfectly, they could even be bigger, got room to spare!
I also have the 944 stubs.

The gearboxside I will get cv flanges from an Australian company called subarugears, they make a gearbox 108mm cv flange that fits the subaru gearbox directly. Axles I will see when everything is in place and go from there

first thing on my list is to finish the uprights and brakes so I can use them for fitting when I start the tubeframe itself...

Posted by: jaxdream Sep 28 2011, 05:41 PM

Yes Patrick sells them , that's where I got mine for my SC hub conversion. You been doing your research !!!

Jack

Posted by: Eric_Shea Sep 28 2011, 05:53 PM

OK... you've officially lost me:

I have 108's in my 914 arms.

Posted by: Hontec Sep 28 2011, 05:59 PM

That is weird because when I tried them in my stock trailingarms, they chafed the sidewalls.......that is why I came to that conclusion...

That they could be bigger is in my new hub setup, the round opening in the back is larger and I machined the hub down so the stub sticks out further in the back.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Sep 28 2011, 06:54 PM

I have about 2mm on either side.

Did you remove the rust first?

Posted by: Eric_Shea Sep 28 2011, 07:00 PM

One other notable, other than the fact that I love your amazing fab skills...

Why wouldn't you put a later model 911 hub on there (1974+), replete with all of the handbrake mounting tabs etc.?

This would give you a beefier bearing and, having the handbrake tab cast into the hub, would give you "your choice" of calipers to bolt on.

I'm sure you thought this through... just wondering from afar.

Posted by: majkos Sep 28 2011, 07:11 PM

Posted by: Hontec Sep 29 2011, 03:10 AM

It started simply by toying around with the lathe and the old hubs and Seeing how the old 911's are raced here and with the nowadays good quality bearings I chose to use the old hubs. I didn't want to use the stock handbrake setup because it limits me in choice of disc. I need a 31mm or thicker disc and I couldn't find one that suited. Also this permits me to go to a floating disc setup in the future.
The other reason is that the SC hubs are a perfect match to the 928S4 discs and they fit nicely into the 15 inch wheel. I also have 4 sets of 4 pot 928S4 brembo's lying around. Also I wanted a hydraulic handbrake.

When this hub setup is tested and works, , a friend of mine who has 3 state of the art cnc machines offered to scan them and cnc them from one piece of aluminium, when we are at that stage we can always machine in a bigger bearing if this turns out to be insufficient.

Posted by: Hontec Sep 29 2011, 11:37 AM

Today I first corrected the mistake from yesterday and made room for the top bushing to be able to move under extreme angles without hitting the hub:












Then I covered the rear with a plate to finish it off:
























Then I tried a bearing and hub for fun and to give an impression:














Then added the 928S4 disc and caliper:

























To give an impression how I machined the hubs and to show the flange that interlocks with the plate and inner ring:












And finally: 15 inch magic!:

Posted by: wingnut86 Sep 29 2011, 11:50 AM

...yeah but Porsche could have done that too.

Of course, the upgrade of water wheel power to CNC was cost prohibitive in the 70's



P.S. I want 4 each...

I'll throw in 4 bottles of good ole' Utah Barbecue sauce once Eric gives up the recipe:-)

Posted by: Hontec Sep 29 2011, 02:10 PM

pfff 2 days work per hub........on the other side...you're mentioning the bbq sauce way to often.....

Posted by: Hontec Sep 29 2011, 02:13 PM

Crap, way better than I had hoped for ( the interlocking plates and back did their job well in preventing warpage) Run-out compared to the hubmount only a minor 0,01mm (0,01 mm = 0,000393700787 inch)

Posted by: Eric_Shea Sep 29 2011, 05:39 PM

Sorry... I used the wrong terminology when I said hub.

I should have said 911 bearing housing not 911 hub. A later (1974) 911 bearing housing could be cut and welded on exactly like what was done with the 914 housing. It would give you a larger bearing (for the wider tires 911's were starting to get at that time) and give you the robust handbrake stop tab, allowing the use of 911 handbrake assemblies.

I believe 911/930 and 928 cars used a very similar handbrake setup on all... similar if not virtually identical.

Here's the 911 bearing housing (this is a 70ish but a 74 would look very similar):


And here are examples of handbrake assemblies that would bolt on:


Keep up the great fab work!!

Posted by: Hontec Sep 29 2011, 06:22 PM

Thanks for the clarification Eric!!

Posted by: Brett W Sep 29 2011, 07:46 PM

Don't you have to have a special rotor for that though(internal parking brake)? Kinda eliminates the option of doing a nice aluminum hat. The hot ticket is is a mechanical spot caliper. The Audi R-8 uses one the CGT used one, it wouldn't be that hard to fit the Dynalite Mechanical spot caliper for use with a disk setup.

http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperList.aspx?subname=Mech%20Spot

Several companies offer them though.

Posted by: Hontec Sep 29 2011, 07:55 PM

Correct but if I use the 930 turbo disc (309x28) instead of the 928S4 disc (304x31) I have the correct bellhousing for the parking brake backplate. With the 930 turbo disc I can still use the brembo 4-pots and I Will also make provisions for à separate parking brake caliper, just to have the option to change if needed..

Posted by: Randal Sep 29 2011, 08:28 PM

Amazing work so far Randall. When you finish that beauty bring it over here and we'll find some Oregon or Idaho Hill Climbs to run.

Posted by: Hontec Sep 30 2011, 12:19 AM

That would sure be nice, I am a huge hillclimb fan!!!

Posted by: Hontec Sep 30 2011, 12:32 AM

Some people expressed concerns regarding welding the cast iron flange, well I'm not quite sure if it is cast iron and in the stock trailing arm, these flanges are also welded on the tube by Porsche itself, so my filosofy is: if they can weld it, I can too

explanatory pics:

Posted by: Brett W Sep 30 2011, 06:34 AM

Pretty sure they are cast steel, not cast iron, so they should be fine when welding. I have welded on a few and they are pretty clean so I see no issues there.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Sep 30 2011, 09:48 AM

Agree... Very weldable as noted, that's exactly how the factory did it.

Posted by: andys Sep 30 2011, 10:39 AM

The larger 911 bearing (513180), according to my bearing chart, goes back to 1978 but I'm not be sure which bearing was used before that on the 911....perhaps my chart in incomplete?

For my custom training arms, I machined my own bearing carriers but frankly it was a lot of work. It would be much easier to adapt an exising carrier.

Andys



Attached image(s)

Posted by: Brett W Sep 30 2011, 02:03 PM

For reference. The 02 GT2 uses an 85mm rear wheel bearing. The 89 930 uses two 82mm taper roller bearings, 78-89 911 uses an 80mm bearing in the rear, the 987/997 uses an 80mm bearing all the way around, the 986/996 use a 75mm bearing all the way around, the 914-4 uses a 75mm wheel bearing. I am pretty sure it is the same bearing as the Boxster and 996 use.

Posted by: Hontec Sep 30 2011, 10:46 PM

Thanks guys for all the input, work Will continue Next tuesday when I'm back from my visit to China

@ Andys: those hubs look mighty Nice!!!

Posted by: nsr-jamie Oct 1 2011, 06:55 AM

Wow! Looking good !! Glad to see updates on this project and thread....nice Mistutoyo gauge too, I have the same one.

China?? Come to Japan!!

Those are beautiful welds !!

Posted by: Hontec Oct 1 2011, 07:36 AM

Thanks Jamie!

Tokyo in 2 weeks from now

Posted by: Hontec Oct 4 2011, 12:33 PM

The whole integral handbrake thing got me thinking; why not, don't have to install it, but it would be nice to have the option to do so.

So I got started on it, Had already bought some backplates and refurbished handbrake parts, just had to modify the bearing carrier and hub.

Decided to make a bracket that spaces the brake shoes, as well as lets the assembly rest on when the cabe is pulled, so the backplates will not deform.

I read some descriptions on how the separating tube enables both actuating levers to be pressed together to force the brake shoes out, but I also read that when converted to 914 use, only the outer lever functions by pulling the cable.

Since the pulling cable/moving sleeve is to cumbersome for me when I install the handbrake lever and one lever functions quite well, I,ve decided to leave the lower lever out and install a flat plate to rest the spring on that is installed between the two levers. In the picture this is not done yet since I'm waiting on my 911 cables and then I can finish the assembly.

Pictures for today:

Posted by: BKLA Oct 4 2011, 01:50 PM

that's just sweet!

Posted by: Eric_Shea Oct 4 2011, 07:45 PM

There ya go!

Posted by: MDG Oct 4 2011, 08:06 PM

That is so good. Like mad scientist good.

Posted by: moparrob Oct 4 2011, 08:19 PM

Posted by: tscrihfield Oct 4 2011, 08:21 PM

Completely Agree!

I am in complete aw of what is going on with this thread! Hontec, when you finish this car you are going to have to replace all of the Porsche badges with ("Your Last Name here") Badges! When you start it up you will have to dress as Dr. Frakenstein, and scream "Its Alive!"

Posted by: Hontec Oct 5 2011, 01:17 AM

Thanks guys for all the positive words!

Thanks! I wouldn't go so far as to give it my own name but it's just a vision I have of the car and how I want it to be. My vision is to have a 914 that looks stock when you sit in it, except for a rollcage ,but when you open up the front and rear, it's high tech all the way....

Thanks

Randall

Posted by: Hontec Oct 5 2011, 04:37 AM

Finished the parking brake setup today, single lever action and works perfect!!

Now I'm waiting on Zimmermann 930 turbo discs and new wheelbearings so i can finish placing the 4-pot brembo's......


Also I got the spacer rings I need in order to use the SC hubs/stubs.

Posted by: partwerks Oct 5 2011, 05:50 AM

I didn't realize that the floor pans were plug welded, but then I haven't seen what was under the caulking either.

Posted by: wingnut86 Oct 5 2011, 06:58 AM

Eventually you will have a buddy reproduce the core piece via cnc block?

Pricepoint?

Posted by: wingnut86 Oct 5 2011, 07:00 AM

P.S. Your welds are pure mech-head porn maan...

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Oct 5 2011, 01:41 PM

Thanks again for making the project more complex and amazing to watch unfold

Posted by: Hontec Oct 7 2011, 05:28 AM

Yes I will, but before I do that I'm going to make a new set with the larger 911 bearings, somehow I keep having trouble with the 108mm stubs in the stock 914 bearing carriers. The larger cap that is pressed onto the rear of the bearing carrier seems to be offcentered in such a way that it is eccentric and the larger 108mm stub keeps rubbing it...This has no consequence for centricity of the hub/stub only I cannot use the 108mm stub and have to use the 944Turbo 100mm stub axle with these uprights.

So I will make these ones for initial use and then make new ones that I will use to have reproduced in aluminium...

Posted by: Hontec Oct 7 2011, 05:29 AM

Thanks! I like to make things complex somehow: gives me some weird kind of satisfaction

Posted by: Hontec Oct 7 2011, 05:38 AM

Today I received the bearings and pressed them in. I used the 5mm spacer ring on the SC hub and pressed it into the bearing. When I inserted the 108mm SC stub axle, I ran into the rubbing issue again. Took out the grinder and modified the opening on the rear, but when I torqued the stub, no movement at all. I took out the stub and used the remaining spacer ring on the 944 turbo stub axle I also have and it fitted, then I inserted this combo into the hub and voila: no issues at all! So basically I'm stuck to the 100mm stub axles in this case! Just need to get another set of spacer rings and I'm done.
Also fitted a set of 911 SC brake discs and all fitted nicely over the whole emergency brake assembly!!!

Pics for today:

Posted by: mark21742 Oct 7 2011, 05:41 AM

You could also look at 04-06 GTO rear stubs for an alternative for some more strength.....mine has held over 600hp and 600ftlbs of torque through slicks for over 4 years now, and runs a similar parking brake shoes inside the rotors like the Porsche

Posted by: Hontec Oct 7 2011, 07:46 AM

They fit into the 911 Hubs?

do you have a picture perhaps?

On the other side, I don't think I'm going to run into trouble with the 944 turbo stubs.

Posted by: mark21742 Oct 7 2011, 08:30 AM

I don't have any pictures, I was thinking more along the lines of fanning a hub up like you did for this one

Posted by: Brett W Oct 7 2011, 08:53 AM

Randall you could chuck the 108 stub up in a lathe and turn it down slightly and that might give you the clearance you need, but I like the idea of building another upright with more clearance.

Posted by: andys Oct 7 2011, 09:55 AM

It would most certainly take "a buddy" to do the work for cheap. I looked into reproducing the bearing carrier pictured in post #331 that uses the larger 911 bearing when considering a custom trailing arm offering. The up front costs for the first best quantity price break was simply more than I was willing to entertain. I think it's far easier to use a bolt on bearing carrier like the Corvette.

I also went so far as to machine a set of bearing carriers from aluminum (pictured) thinking I might do a set of aluminum trailing arms, however the post fabrication (welding) multi step heat treating schedule made that cost prohibitive; also the potential for fatgue failure wasn't worth the risk.

Andys



Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Hontec Oct 7 2011, 11:43 AM

I agree, but like you said yourself: better make another with a larger bearing..

Posted by: Hontec Oct 7 2011, 12:00 PM

I have a buddy with 3 state of the art cnc machines, we can use the machines in weekends when they are not in use for production. My only cost is the raw material and beer..

Your aluminium bearing carriers look very nice, but my initial choice would be steel, unless you make a complete aluminium hub.

Also an idea is a bolt on complete hub like the lotus Elise.....I also toy with the same idea as Britain; using the complete lotus suspension....

plenty of ideas........I'm now building a hydraulic bending machine to make the new guts for the 914. I'll finish both hubs for fitment later on and my intention is to make a flat bottom from front to rear where the wishbones will be attached to. That part will at the same time be the frame for the engine/transmission.

I also want to have the option to mount the original trailing arms and I will tie in the Tangerine racing mounts into the cage. The reason for this is simply that if the inspector at the yearly checkup does not approve of my double wishbone, I can change this in an hour or so, so that I comply and they do not revoke my registration...

Posted by: clow Feb 17 2012, 07:23 PM

Any updates!?

Posted by: wingnut86 Feb 18 2012, 12:20 AM

I looked up into the sky the other day and thought I saw him waving at me out of the window of his favorite 747 Stretch.

The tail number was 914-FABKING or similar

Posted by: Hontec Feb 24 2012, 01:24 PM

In fact I am busy with the 914 again, been a bit pre-occupied with the start of the rally season and the brandnew Citroën DS3-R3 rallycar I've been building the past months (http://www.rvwerks.com/project/15/ds3-r3)

But I'm trying a new concept for my rear drivetrain. Hope this idea will be what I expect, 99,999% sure this is a keeper....

Pics wil be up soon!

Posted by: Hontec Feb 24 2012, 01:26 PM

Whehehehehe!

Posted by: 6freak Feb 24 2012, 02:22 PM

No kid n ...we no need no stinking grinder...very nice work indeed

Posted by: wndsnd Feb 24 2012, 04:39 PM

What can I say,, just overwhelmed. Great craftmanship.

Posted by: PeeGreen 914 Feb 24 2012, 05:20 PM

That DS3 is cool. Nice work

Posted by: Valy Feb 24 2012, 10:01 PM

Brings back memories of my ZX Volcane

Posted by: 396 Feb 25 2012, 09:34 AM

Dang.. what an engineering feat. First class all the way, from cleanness of garage to fab 914 jig.
Good luck and keep the pictures coming.

Posted by: Hontec Feb 25 2012, 02:17 PM

Thanks guys! More updates and pictures will follow soon.

Posted by: wingnut86 Feb 26 2012, 09:11 PM

DAMN!

I have got to get me a set of those smoking hot door panels for my 914...

I might even keep the Citroën injection molded name. Looks soooo cool

Posted by: Hontec Feb 27 2012, 04:18 AM

They are indeed kinky, easily made Yourself btw. Stick a piece of foam on the door, nicely cut out the doorbars until they fit perfectly, then smoothe out the foam with filler and make a negative mold!

Posted by: majkos Feb 27 2012, 08:45 AM

wow!just got done with checking out the DS3 pics.

You are having too much fun because your workmanship is beautiful,
beautiful work done by a happy person!

and Your JACKSTANDS !? unbelievable awesome!

Are they Cad plated ?

Posted by: Hontec Feb 27 2012, 01:15 PM

Thanks! Indeed I'm having lots of fun! Especially the testing part!

Stands are indeed cad-plated

Thanks,

Randall

Posted by: ruby914 Nov 8 2012, 08:58 PM

Randall,
How is it going?
We need an update

Posted by: mr914 Nov 9 2012, 12:50 AM

Enough of the teasing...


What an awesome thread

Bring on the

Posted by: Vysoc Nov 18 2012, 11:39 AM

Randall,

You are so helpful as I start drilling out my floor pan and other associated problems. I went through all 19 pages of this thread....WOW!
The information, pictures and unbelievable processes that you use are an inspiration to all of us. You have provided all of us with great photo's that allow us all to hopefully make our projects and cars better.

Thank you, I know that you had to be in the aviation field.

Vysoc

Posted by: Hontec Nov 23 2012, 03:15 AM

Thanks for the compliments guys! It's been a while since I posted. I've been toying with the rear drivetrain/engine package and after testing and mocking several options, I think I'm almost there. This winter I'm going to construct the setup I've decided to go for. Parts have been gathered, all I need to do is find some time between the projects.
I'll keep you posted

Thanks and best regards

Randall

Posted by: wndsnd Dec 8 2013, 01:12 PM

Anyone hear from Randall recently?

This was one of the more interesting builds .....

Posted by: CptTripps Dec 9 2013, 04:25 PM

"Interesting" is an understatement.

Posted by: wndsnd Dec 9 2013, 04:53 PM

Well Mr. Tripps,

You guys are in a whole different league than the rest of us with your skill, fabrication expertise, engineering ability etc. We are impressed, inspired, and humbled !

I just finished a 20 month restoration and within a week the battery tray fell off! So much for my welding ability.

Now I have someone going through and fixing the things I fuched up.....
But we all do what we can with what we got.

We are definitely an interesting bunch. I have been enjoying your build as well.

John

Posted by: Rod Feb 10 2015, 10:34 AM

Whatever happened to this build? Would love to see a bit more!!!!

Posted by: Cracker Sep 5 2016, 08:56 PM

Posted by: bulitt Sep 6 2016, 06:24 AM

Be nice if someone manufactured a cast aluminum rear control arm...

Posted by: Hontec Oct 21 2016, 08:55 AM

Hi Guys,

Got cancer, sold all my porsche stuff, got cured, never bought it back....

Jigs and frames were bought by Arno Wienands of 914 parts.nl

sorry you won't see this one finished by me...

Posted by: Cracker Oct 21 2016, 09:07 AM

Randall,

Thanks for letting us know...so sorry to hear of your health issues. Cheers to overcoming the cancer. Your work was inspiring (to say the least); however, these are just cars! All the best in the future!

Tony

Posted by: Hontec Oct 21 2016, 09:11 AM

Thanks Tony

Posted by: John Jentz Oct 21 2016, 09:21 AM

Couldn't say it better. Glad you're back and healthy.

Posted by: sixnotfour Oct 21 2016, 01:19 PM

I noticed your 914 jig and parts on Arno's web page, I just figured you got onto another project,,,
well yes you did congrats on the cure..