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Posted by: Bee Jay Oct 19 2010, 10:21 PM

I'm baaaack.
Hi everybody. Maybe some of your remember me. I was very active on the 914 forums about ten years ago. I rebuilt my 1.7 fi 73 914 into a Dell Orto carbed, high compression, big cammed, 2.0 liter. Tom Gould, Wayne Dempsey, and I built the motor in Wayne's Manhattan Beach apartment garage. Gill Paszek helped me with the five lug conversion, and numerous other projects like a passenger footwell sub woofer. I also mounted BMW 320i front brakes, thru the body roll bars, and fuchs replicas. I had the engine compartment and body painted Gaurds Red. John Larson of West Coast Garage rebuilt my 901 tranny and helped me keep the car running, cause I drove it like I stole it.
Driving the car was a blast for the past ten years. I blew the engine twice, once with a blown head gasket, and another dropped valve seat, (my second). EMS wanted $800 to fix the head this time, so I decided it's time. I've been wanting to do the six conversion for over ten years, so I'm finally going to do it. I actually started a few months ago. I thought I should do a conversion thread. Six conversion threads used to be very plentiful, but I don't see so many anymore. I would appreciate links, cause I'm gonna need a lot of information, advice, and of course, parts. Here is the car now, well I've removed the 2.0 liter motor.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Oct 19 2010, 10:55 PM

I bought this 82 911 3.0liter CIS motor from a friend. Needs cleaning and a few missing parts.
Bee Jay

Posted by: curt914 Oct 19 2010, 11:09 PM

Bee Jay

This is Curt in Lompoc, actually VV. I met you once at your house but was never able to find it again. I own Surgi's silver 914 2.0.

Will have to get directions again in the near future and stop by to re-introduce myself.

But tell me, who painted your car? I was impressed when I saw it a few years ago and now impressed once again in the photos you posted tonight.

Anyway...good luck with the conversion. Would love to do that myself.
OMG... the sound of those things.

OK....back to the request for conversion threads.

Curt

Posted by: SirAndy Oct 19 2010, 11:47 PM

Welcome back that is!

Here's a link to my conversion thread. A long read but you might find a couple of good ideas in there ...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=44700


A 3.0L is a great engine for a 914.

Posted by: moparrob Oct 20 2010, 12:28 AM

Hey Bee Jay,

I'm knee deep in my own 914-6 conversion and have done a lot of research since May, when I bought my 914-6 GT replica without an engine.


I'm not sure how much you already know, so forgive me if you are already aware of most of this. BTW - mine is a '78 big port 3.0 engine very similar to yours. The first thing I did was ditched the fuel injection, because it is a royal pain to get the CIS to fit under the hood (its too tall). Go with Webers for ease of installation.

You'll need an engine mount. I bought the Rich Johnson one and am very happy with the selection. Its very easy to mount.

You'll need an oil tank for the rear fender. Originals are $1,000, copies a bit less.

You'll need to plumb a front oil cooler with lines also.

You'll need to re-do your 3.0 engine wiring loom after discarding the CIS portion of the harness.

You'll need a conversion clutch package from Kennedy or Patrick Motorsports.

New throttle cable for carbs.

If you end up putting Turbo valve covers on the engine (recommended) you'll need to machine some of the ribs off so you can adjust the valves without dropping the engine.

You'll need 914-6 conversion headers. I used MSDS from Marty Schneider and had them ceramic coated. If you have the need and $ go with SSI heat exchangers (1 5/8 diameter). Don't forget a muffler.

You'll need to install a front oil cooler and lines, plus a rear oil thermostat, to ensure you don't cook your engine.

You'll need to change your tach to a 6 cylinder tach.

That's all I can think of right now, but it is late...

Oh, and you'll need the 914-6 specific engine sheet metal.

Good luck with the project.

Rob

Posted by: carr914 Oct 20 2010, 07:20 AM

Welcome Back

I've done a bunch of Conversions, so I will watch your thread and chime in occasionally.

I'm doing a conversion right now - I decided to go with the Patrick Bulkhead mount for a couple reason, but most importantly because you can swivil the motor down. This was important for me as mine is a Twin-Plug and I can't get to the middle spark-plug on the passenger side.

Good Luck with your project

T.C.

Posted by: JmuRiz Oct 20 2010, 08:44 AM

Wow, been a LONG time since I've seen you on the board, welcome back and welcome to the conversion-in-progress group

Posted by: shoguneagle Oct 20 2010, 09:39 AM

Great looking car. I have info somewhere around the house involving my conversion which is 1987 Carrera 3.2 with Motronics injection. I will see what threads I have regarding conversions per se. Andy's is one of the best overall and great for the 3.6.

I will follow your conversion with great interest.

Rich Johnson, Perry Kiehl, Andy, and many others are great sources of information and experience. Rich Johnson equipment is what I have used on my conversion: throttle linkage, front mount, etc.

Steve Hurt

Posted by: gothspeed Oct 20 2010, 10:09 AM

This project looks like it will turn out quite nicely ........ I will follow the progress as well !!!

Posted by: patssle Oct 20 2010, 12:05 PM

This thread certainly interests me as well, I have a '81 3.0L that has a date with destiny too: My 914. Looking forward to watching your progress!

Posted by: Bee Jay Oct 20 2010, 01:59 PM

Here are some of the conversion parts I've accumulated over the last ten years.
Velios Oil tank and lines

I forgot whose motor mounts

Engine tin (fiberglass)

1 1/2" headers with 2" collectors that I got from Wayne Dempsey at Pelican Parts.

Posted by: gothspeed Oct 20 2010, 02:06 PM

Cool parts!!!

Posted by: moparrob Oct 20 2010, 05:35 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the engine oil cooler with the 90 degree bend...

Posted by: Bee Jay Oct 20 2010, 07:21 PM

You mean like this. I bought a brand new 911 oil cooler from Tom Gould at TC's garage, and John Larson had it modified at some secret location.
Bee Jay

Posted by: rick 918-S Oct 20 2010, 08:34 PM

Posted by: carr914 Oct 20 2010, 08:44 PM

I need a TC's Garage Sticker for my Snap=On Box

Posted by: Bee Jay Oct 24 2010, 08:41 AM

This is from another thread that I thought should also be part of this one. Someone is going to be stupid enough, I mean ambitious enough to try this again, and I want to be as much help as possible.
Bee Jay
I pulled my CIS stuff out last night to start cleaning and reassembling. What a mess, old mess at that. Then I went to bed thinking about it. I'm going to need a CIS brain, ($300 no core), a CDI ($300 no core), A CIS fuel pump ($200), a $200-$300 wire harness rework, and whatever else is missing or not working. I'm thinking to heck with it. Just get some carbs, and they look way cooler. I already have a good carb fuel pump (Carter), a good MSD box for ignition, and no Brain or CDI needed. I really wanted fi, but really want to be driving my 914 by next summer, and still have a little gas money. I'm going to have a long conversation with Perry and the Captain, John Larson to see what they think.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Oct 24 2010, 09:16 PM

Here are a few things I got done this summer. I had the alternator overhauled, the headers Jet Hot coated, and the fan, fan housing, and valve covers powder coated. Check it out.
Bee Jay

Posted by: mepstein Oct 24 2010, 09:24 PM

How do you determine if you have to shave the ribs down on the valve covers? Seems like some people do and some dont.

Posted by: 9146986 Oct 25 2010, 06:57 AM

You do have to shave the ribs on the turbo lower covers. You can either take off some right where they interfere, or take some off all the ribbed surface, which is what I do. I just take them to a machine shop that has a surfacing sander (basically a huge industrial belt sander) and have 5/16" taken off.

The problem isn't installing the engine, it's taking the lower covers off for valve adjustments, if you don't remove some material, they won't come off the engine as they hit the inner suspension fastener.

Posted by: '73-914kid Oct 25 2010, 08:03 AM

That red is going to look gorgeous! Hopefully everything goes together smoothly for you!

Just a question though.. Why not use a mill to take the fins down? A giant belt sandy doesn't seem very accurate..

Posted by: markb Oct 25 2010, 03:28 PM

Hi Bee Jay! Nice to see you back. That's the kind of conversion I'd like to do for my car. The only problem I would have is the "losing my license because my foot is in it" part.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Oct 25 2010, 04:03 PM

You pay all that money to get valve covers with ribs to prevent them from warping, then you remove the ribs? I guess you kinda expect that from someone who lives in an area where they can't barbecue ribs, either ....................................


Your turn, Perry! The Cap'n

Posted by: SLITS Oct 25 2010, 05:29 PM

Damn, I blew it. All I did was surface the stock covers and torque them as I would a head (crisscross pattern) with a in/lb 1/4" drive torque wrench hoping they wouldn't warp.

Oh well, back to square one.

Posted by: sixnotfour Oct 25 2010, 08:09 PM

top half


Attached image(s)

Posted by: JmuRiz Oct 25 2010, 08:12 PM

Wow, those refirb'd parts are drool-worthy! Like I had any thoughts they wouldn't be, having seen you car pics over the years...you still have the f-car, you may need to do a comparison.

Posted by: Bee Jay Oct 25 2010, 10:36 PM

Perry is modifying my wire harness. He needed to know my gauge configuration. I actually couldn't remember since I haven't driven the car in almost a year. I took the car cover off and took a couple of snap shots tonight.
In the dash I have a combo oil pressure/oil temp gauge with battery and oil pressure idiot lights, the tach, and the speedo. In the console I have fuel, voltmeter, cylinder head temp (useless), and a a/f ratio meter. The a/f meter was very useful in keeping the carbs tuned.
So there you go Perry, my gauge configuration. I guess I need to add a six tach to my list of things I need.
Bee Jay

Posted by: SLITS Oct 26 2010, 07:04 AM

If you use the CIS (and I would), buy and install a popoff valve in the airbox (unless you buy the aluminum one). It will save you a few hundred dollars if it backfires (and it most certainly will).

Get a 150 mph speedometer too! You can easily bury the 120 one.

Posted by: Krieger Oct 26 2010, 08:36 AM

Looks like this is going to turn out very nice! I have a friend in the area that has a complete CIS set up for a 3.0. PM me if you are interested. I think he has wanted to get rid of it (sell) for some time. More pics!

Posted by: 9146986 Oct 26 2010, 10:43 AM

AFA cutting the ribs off the lower covers, I've never had a warping problem. I kind of rationalized that cutting only part of the ribs might provide more of a chance for warpage, since you won't have the same thickness across the cover.

AFA cutting them down, the surfacing sander does just fine, as .001 precision isn't required. But I don't do it, the machine shop does it. It works fine to surface heads, so I guess it'll do fine for that application, and it's cheaper than having them milled, which I've also done.

If you paint or powder coat them and then take the ribs down, it gives them a nice look, but what do I know? This is just what has worked for me. If it's your engine you do what you like.

Sorry, I don't do ribs Cap'n, wish I could. There's one or two places in TN that know how to cook ribs.

Posted by: Bee Jay Oct 26 2010, 01:51 PM

I've heard about TN barbeque, please send my harness wrapped in it. In exchange, I could send you some Santa Maria style barbeque.
Porsche content: I just got this note from my friend Gill. I must point out that one of my other hobbies is collecting 1/18th die cast cars.

Bee Jay,

I did some research last night. Early 3.0 engines had their cam retarded 6 degrees compared to later ones (like yours). So, don’t mess with the cam timing. Bruce Anderson’s book has a recipe for a nice street 3.0. First, replace the stock exhaust (catalytic converters, etc) with an early (pre-1974) exhaust and muffler. You have effectively done this with the headers you bought. Then, replace the CIS with Weber 40IDA 3C carbs:



· 34mm venturis

· F3 emulsion tubes

· 160 main jets

· 175 air correction jets

· 65 idle jets (you may need to go bigger if you experience lean surge)



You will need a 1978 or 1979 distributor (no vacuum advance) or recurve your 1980 distributor. Buy a distributor rotor with a 6500 rpm rev limiter. The result is a strong engine with a flat torque curve: 210 hp at 6000 rpm, 200 ft-lb at 4500 rpm. These figures come from a dyno pull, not wishful thinking.

If you don’t have a copy of Porsche 911 Performance Handbook by Bruce Anderson, you should buy a copy instead of another 1:18 toy car.

-GILL

Posted by: patssle Oct 26 2010, 02:02 PM

I have a 3.0L that I will be converting to 40IDA3C carbs, and I have researched what others are running, here are my findings:

34mm vents
155/160/165 main jets
175/180 air correction jets
55/60/65 idle jets
F26/F3 emulsion tubes

Seems more lean towards the F26 emulsion tubes than the F3s.

Posted by: Bee Jay Oct 27 2010, 05:38 PM

I had a long conversation with Perry this weekend and I visited with John Larson, The Cap'n, last night. John has been working on these cars forever and is a talented and skilled Porsche mechanic. He is well regarded and respected in these parts and I trust him when it come to my Porsche. He really likes the CIS system and knows the 3.0 will run great with CIS. He also says that the 3.0 will run good, not great, but good, with carbs. Perry thinks I should go with carbs because of the expensive parts I don't have yet and the simplicity of the carbs.
Right now I'm leaning toward carbs because of the simplicity of carbs and the flexibility of modifying the engine at some future date. I've had this car since 1996, and I've restored it, broke it, and returned it to service three times now. I've owned my Vette since new in 1979, so you know I will keep this car a long, long, time. This engine may need disassembly for a number of reasons sometime in the near, or far future. If so, I would like to have the flexibility to change the cams, or up the compression, or even change the displacement. I can do all of those with simple adjustments to the carbs, but not so with the CIS. I only met Perry here on the forum recently but after three phone conversations with him, I trust him and he knows a little about six conversions. He may have the carbs I need and he will help me rebuild them and set them up for my stock cammed 3.0. Something I am saving for last because logically it should not even be a part of my decision, but....carbs look so damn good and sexy. Open an engine lid with Webers or PMOs and my heart skips a beat and I start breathing fast. CIS has never done that for me. I already have a Carter carb fuel pump and an MSD box, so I won't have to buy a CIS brain, a CDI ignition, or a CIS fuel pump. I know this was long, but I would like some opinions.
Bee Jay

Posted by: markb Oct 27 2010, 05:43 PM

Should you even begin considering the CIS, we have one of the aluminum airboxes here, and would give you a screaming deal to get it out of our hair.

Posted by: patssle Oct 27 2010, 06:16 PM

From everything I've read...the carbs will run just as good as the CIS with a stock cam, and maybe even a little better. Now to get the full effect of carbs you have to change the cam, but leaving it stock will be great.

I'm changing over to carbs from CIS not for performance, but nostalgia, ease of use, and if I put the engine into my 914...no electronics to deal with. And supposibly the engine sounds a lot sexier with carbs.

Posted by: JmuRiz Oct 27 2010, 08:35 PM

Good to see others have the same dilemma as I do...engine has CIS, but that does nada for me. My dad and others say carbs, others say EFI (ITBs or 3.2 intake) I change my mind daily. Maybe if I found a deal on some known good carbs I could be swayed one way.

BTW I hear (since I don't know from experience) that you can use 964 cams with CIS pistons + carbs/ITBs with great results. I'll have to do more research on it though.

Posted by: Bee Jay Oct 29 2010, 01:49 PM

I think I'm going with carbs. For the flexibility and the simplicity.
+Simplicity: I can work on and tune carbs, a caveman could do it. I'd be totally lost with the CIS.
+Flexibility: If I take this engine apart for any reason in the future, I'd like the flexibility to change cams, compression, or even displacement. I really believe that this will simplify the conversion.
-Cost: This (conversion to carbs) is going to be expensive. I get to use my Carter fuel pump and MSD ignition, so I save money there. But I don't have to buy a CIS brain, CIS fuel pump, or CDI box, so I save money there too. Now I'm looking for carb and manifold deals. Will work for carbs.
Here are some more reasons. I want my engine to look like this. My apologies to the owners of these engines.
Bee Jay

Posted by: RobW Oct 29 2010, 02:32 PM

Pretty cool Lompoc. My 914 was bought off a VAFB park and sell lot in 1976.

Good luck!

Posted by: gothspeed Oct 29 2010, 02:38 PM

I like your logic Bee Jay !!!!!! Your carb decision has pushed me even further towards carbs on my humble 2056 ........

Velocity stacks ROCK!!!!!

Posted by: Bee Jay Oct 29 2010, 09:30 PM

Even cooler, I was born in Pleasanton, CA. Well actually on Parks Air Force Base. I drive by the lemon lot on Vandenberg every day to see if there are any good steals.
Bee Jay

Posted by: GeorgeRud Oct 30 2010, 07:25 AM

I also have carbs on my conversion, but am rethinking that daily. The problem is that with today's fuels and the difference in the vapor pressure of ethanol laced fuel (currently 10%, proposed 15%), the carbs are going to be more likely to vapor lock. The only way to raise the boiling point of this fuel is to increase the pressure, and there's a reason that all of today's engines are running fuel injection at higher fuel pressures!

With the increased availability of EFI systems (even consider the Bitz conversion for your CIS system), I think it would be a better idea for both performance and mileage. If money isn't an object, PMO has some very nice pieces that let you run fuel injection and keep the look of the Webers.

As much as I love the look of my Webers, I wonder if they are not becoming relics as the available fuels keep changing. You have to remember that the EPA and the gas companies really have no interest in the old car hobby.

Posted by: SLITS Oct 30 2010, 07:56 AM

Carbs = 12 mpg

CIS = 22 - 27 mpg

I kept the CIS. Butt simple and when in tune, starts first time everytime, even at 11,000 feet.

I didn't know you could change the dizzy in a simple swap as the 3.0 is hall effect, reverse rotation. I have an 007 dizzy someone was trying to swap the drive gears to make the 007 reverse rotation. Stock 3.0 ignition requires a 6 pin CDI .... can be had used for about $300 if you watch the boards.

Brain ... I don't think so ... just eliminate the Frequency Valve (as in take it out of the fuel lines).

Fuel pump, fuel accumulator and filter can cost some bucks.

Fuel distributor, WUR and injectors can be cleaned (Sorry Cap'n, I will argue with you on this one) with cans of Brake Cleaner and lo pressure air. Most rebuilders won't touch CIS mechanical injectors as there is no money in it for them. I cleaned and flowed my own. I also cleaned my own fuel distributor and WUR. Rebuilts can be had on the FD for about $400 and on the WUR for about $250 if necessary. Nothing else in the system.

I'll take relialibilty over Bling anyday.

Posted by: Bee Jay Oct 30 2010, 08:53 AM

I just now figured it out. Yea I'm slow, I rode the little yellow bus. But Slits is Glen of Ron and Glen fame. When I lived in LA, I used to ride all the way out to Riverside for your swap meets. I think I bought half of my 914 parts from you or at your swap meets. How you doing man?
I'm originally from the East Side of San Antonio, so I'll take the bling for now. I'm keeping the CIS stuff, so maybe after I get the conversion running and sorted out a little, I'll upgrade to FI. Keeping it simple for now, like I said, I'm a little slow.
Bee Jay

Posted by: patssle Oct 30 2010, 10:04 AM

I'll disagree. My 914 is to enjoy, have fun with. As long as it's decently reliable, which it is with carbs, I rather have the bling!

My water cooled, A/C, heater, radio car is for reliability. The 914 is for fun!

Posted by: moparrob Oct 30 2010, 12:52 PM

I've been watching you build, which seems to parallel my own. Nice job!

I'm running a 3.0 also, with the 901 trans, and was wondering if you had made a decision about which flywheel, ring gear and pressure plate/clutch to run. I know that Patrick Motorsports has one, but I was curious if there were any other alternatives out there.

I currently have the stock 3.0 flywheel on the engine and it appears to be in good shape. Thanks for the inspiration, its a lonely world in the six conversion game....

Posted by: echocanyons Oct 30 2010, 12:59 PM

Patrick Motorsports sources there conversion ring gear from Kennedy eng. between the two I think those are about the only options out there.

With this you retain your stock flywheel.

Posted by: sixnotfour Oct 30 2010, 01:57 PM

call Kennedy you'll save $$$
http://www.kennedyeng.com/index.htm

Posted by: rfuerst911sc Oct 30 2010, 04:55 PM

On my 3.0 conversion I used the original flywheel with a Kennedy Engineering ring gear, Stage II pressure plate and clutch disc with throwout bearing. It all fit perfect and works great with easy clutch feel/engagement and handles the power easily.

Posted by: Bee Jay Oct 30 2010, 08:56 PM

OK, The Captain corrected me. Your Ron of the Ron and Glenn show. You used to work at Pelican. Remember that wild weekend in Vegas for SEMA about ten years ago? Well SEMA is next week. You going. I'll be there. I never miss SEMA.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Nov 9 2010, 09:33 PM

I got restless this past weekend and decided to test fit everything, the engine shroud, engine tin, valve covers, headers, fan and fan housing. I'm glad I did. The fiberglass engine tin required quite a bit of trimming, filing, and drilling. It all fits good now. Now, should I take it off (the engine tin) and paint it black? The current black finish is too obviously fiberglass. I would sand and paint the top side gloss black, but leave the rough backside alone. The shroud will have to come off when I get the wiring harness. How does it look so far?
Bee Jay

Posted by: moparrob Nov 9 2010, 10:12 PM

Looks great! My engine is at about the same stage yours is. Valve covers and fan going to the powder coater this month. I also am running ceramic coated headers.

I can't wait to get it running.

Did you fab that hard oil line under the engine yourself? If not where did you get it?

Also, where will you be venting your crank case to? Does that breather vent to the oil tank?

Posted by: Cairo94507 Nov 10 2010, 07:12 AM

That is looking sweet; I would definitely remove and paint the engine tin. Very clean job.

Posted by: Bee Jay Nov 11 2010, 09:40 AM

The hard line came with the engine. It gets in the way. I'm new to 911 engines and I don't know yet where this line goes. Can it be replaced with -12 braided hose? I'm going to need help plumbing this puppy to the oil tank. I got the oil tank temporarily mounted inside the fender, but with no lines to it.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Eric_Shea Nov 11 2010, 10:02 AM

Glenn works at Pelican.

Ronnie... do tell about the wild weekend at SEMA.

Posted by: RFoulds Nov 11 2010, 10:38 AM

Wait. 70's Corvette, ferrari, AND a 914-6?? Soory. two toys per customer. gonna have to give one up.

And I'll take the vette off your hands. Is it L-82 4 speed??

Posted by: Bee Jay Nov 12 2010, 12:53 AM

It's an L-82 with four speed alright, 700 R4 four speed. I bought it new in 1979. Check it out here:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/garage/1979-Chevrolet-Corvette-268-BeeJay.html

Bee Jay

Posted by: moparrob Nov 12 2010, 01:02 AM

I still haven't figured out what the best option will be regarding that hard oil line, either. I'm using a stock 914-6 oil tank, so I guess once I get the tank mounted and have the engine installed I will have a better idea of how to connect the two.

Do you know where the crankcase breather connects to??

Posted by: sawtooth Nov 12 2010, 01:03 AM

That is beautiful, crazy nice work.

Posted by: rfuerst911sc Nov 12 2010, 05:12 AM

On my six conversion I used -16AN braided hose from the tank to the engine mounted cooler. I also added a tee so I can drain the tank by simply removing the tee cap. The rest of the oil lines I used -12AN. I have a front mounted cooler with a Mocal thermostat mounted near the engine and this setup ran cool in the Florida summers.

Posted by: jt914-6 Nov 12 2010, 06:01 AM

I have Weber 40's on my 3.0 RS spec engine and am getting 21 mpg....a friend with a stock injected 3.6 isn't getting much better......

EDIT.....took a weekend trip and on the two fill ups using GPS for milage I got 21.9 and 21.2 mpg driving some freeway, two lane roads with some sprited driving mixed in....

Posted by: Bee Jay Jan 4 2011, 10:07 PM

I got my wire harness back from Perry Kiel today. Excellent job Perry. It wasn't cheap, but quality costs. Check it out. Now I can permanantly mount my shroud and alternator and fan. I may need a little help wiring the alternator.
Bee Jay

Posted by: moparrob Jan 4 2011, 10:52 PM

Wow, the harness looks great. That is what I need next. Where would one locate Perry?

Here are a few random threads I have saved recently for the same reason you are inquiring. Some are more useful than others:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/346332-911sc-technical-article-voltage-regulator-replacement.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/491036-alternator-wiring-advice-914-6-conversion.html#post4829433

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/394587-914-6-conversion-alt-s-please.html

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_volt_reg_replace/911_volt_reg_replace.htm

Have fun!

Posted by: Scott Schroeder Jan 5 2011, 11:43 AM

Yep, Perry is the man. I see you did what I did and had him include the MSD wiring into the harness. I love that there will not be a pile of random wires in the engine compartment. He also included the wiring for my Pertronix - all color coded perfectly.
His harnesses really are a work of art.

Right before Christmas I was able to finally do the final install of my shroud and intakes as well. That felt really good.

Good luck with the project. I like reading your thread (I am too lazy to take pics of my own!!)

Posted by: JmuRiz Jan 5 2011, 12:49 PM

Quick question, what's this wiring harness for? Is it just for the alternator etc, or is it for more stuff. It sure looks neat and tidy!

Just wondering if I need to contact him as well.
Still not sure about what ignition and/or MSD I need on my carb'd 2.7 CIS engine.

Posted by: Scott Schroeder Jan 5 2011, 01:06 PM

It is for everything in the engine compartment, as well as the starter wiring, and reverse lights. It plugs right into the main plug on the factory harness after the relay board is removed - well, at least mine does. Perry builds them based on your specific needs. I my case, he even went through where things were going to be mounted in the engine compartment, as well as little details like the best way to route the temp gauge wiring. Very cool product - totally worth it. I hope I dont screw it up when I do my final install!

Posted by: Bee Jay Jan 5 2011, 01:29 PM

I asked for help too soon. I opened up Perry's invoice this morning so that I could mail him a check, and there are two full pages of complete instructions. It tells me where every wire, by color, should go. As you can see, most of the connectors are labeled. I sent him an oily dryed up and brittle mess, and he sent me a like new, good looking harness. Perry is the man for wire harness'.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Justinp71 Jan 5 2011, 05:56 PM

Hi Guys, I did my 81 3.0 conversion a few years ago, here a few comments/suggestions, hope they are useful.

Fuel Delivery- I went to carbs bc my CIS system was not as complete as I originally thought and you are limited to upgrades (and carbs are sexy ). Also I was worried that with an all original CIS system it could be prone to failures over the years. (however I know that CIS can be reliable).

I do love the carbs, but my preference would be a motronic system, which unfortunately can't be installed on a 3.0 without milling the heads. I believe this system would give better low end torq, reliability and efficiency, probably be less stinky too... The carbs are very reliable the only problem is the occasional idle jet clogging, which can be solved with a very clean fuel and air system.

Cam- I had my cams re-ground by http://www.drcamshafts.com/911profiles.htm, I am very happy with them, I went with the dc19 grind. A little more aggressive than the 964 but works with cis and cis pistons.

Mileage- I typically get 15-17 mpg, 20 on the highway. Its fine for me since I don’t put a ton of mileage on the car. I also started tuning the carbs with the air screws one turn out, I had read somewhere that this will give you better mileage.

Tuning- I don’t remember all my jets off hand (they are close to what’s posted here). But I run 55 idle jets, with 60's for some reason it seemed to run to rich, not sure why as some people run 65's must be the tuning and year of motor... Also I had my dizzy re-curved by rennsport in Oregon, I highly recommend them, very knowledgeable.

Overall the car sounds great, motor looks good and is a blast to drive.

Good Luck


Justin

Posted by: Bee Jay Jan 8 2011, 02:01 PM

I need help afterall. Here is my alternator. Do I have it mounted correctly. I assumed it belonged with the print right side up and regulator up. Correct???


Next, I'm hooking up Perry's beautiful wire harness to the alternator. It came with a slim blue wire, and a fat black wire. I did not take the alternator out, so I have no pictures of before. Do I have it right?????


Also, I don't have the alternator to ground strap, but I can build one easily. Where does it hook up?

Thanks
Bee Jay

Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 8 2011, 07:20 PM

check your belt alignment , you may have a mismatch fanhousing / alternator.
I believe it is upisde down, but really does not matter, You may have to notch the air cone that goes on back. The ground attaches to one of the six alternator bolts.

Posted by: Bee Jay Jan 11 2011, 12:53 AM

The voltage regulator needed to be inverted and I needed to create a ground wire. I'm ready to install the fan shroud.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Jan 17 2011, 12:06 AM

First, my welding sucks eggs, big time. So, now that you know that, the motor mount is in. First I bolted it in with six grade eight bolts to 100 ft lbs of torque. The Captain, John Larson, and Gill Paszek instisted that the motor mount still needed to be welded in, so I welded it in. Did I mention my welding sucks. Well, it's welded in really good, it's just not so pretty. But this motor mount isn't going anywhere.
Bee Jay

Posted by: mepstein Jan 17 2011, 06:10 PM

How did you get your engine so clean? Looks great!

Posted by: Bee Jay Jan 31 2011, 12:10 AM

I used a gasoline/kerosene mix, wire brush wheels on my cordless drill, and lots of compressed air. Be sure to plug the intake and exhaust ports with paper towels.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Jan 31 2011, 12:12 AM

I got something in the mail last week. It's my 901 to 3.0 flywheel from Kennedy Engineering. They do good work. The flywheel came with bolts.



Also, while in LA last week, I stopped by Earl's plumbing to pick up a couple of 3/4' to -12 adapters for my Velios oil tank.



The only thing I acomplished this weekend was to adjust the valves, so that I can gasket the valve covers in place. I got the hang of it once I bent my .004" feeler gage 90 degrees. I can't imagine doing this with the engine in the car. All valves were loose. I'm about ready to install the engine except a few items I need to find and buy. Any help in locating these items would be very much appreciated.

engine tin/fiberglass block off plates, since I am not running heat.
a single belt crank pulley to replace the two belt pulley I have
a set of Webber Carbs, manifolds, and linkage
a 914-6 side shifter straight linkage bar
and a few other things I can't think of or don't know I need yet.
I wish I had the talent and time to work on my very basic 3.0 liter six conversion that ankelbiter has. I'd finish the car this weekend. I still hope to have this running by summer.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Feb 5 2011, 11:50 PM

The Oil Tank is in. What a PAIN IN THE ASS. I know, Porsche made it easy, just cut holes that are marked, then slip in the oil tank. Sounds really easy huh? Anyways, after all day, the oil tank is in.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Feb 10 2011, 09:22 PM

Look at what came in the mail today from Mark Epstien. Heater block off plates. I expected used up, beat up, oily, need painting tin. What arrived was practically new and so clean, so I just bolted them on. One is tin, the other is fiberglass. I think I will take them off and paint red to match the shroud. Thanks Mark. A pleasure doing business with you. Now as you can see, I need an alternator pulley half, nut, key, and shims. I'm almost ready to bolt the engine to the tranny.
Bee Jay

Posted by: hwgunner Feb 10 2011, 09:36 PM

Looking great! I am close enough, I hope i get to see it in person some day.

Posted by: moparrob Feb 10 2011, 11:11 PM

Looking good. Make sure you get the correct fan pulley. In case you weren't aware, the stock sizes for an early SC engine with the 226mm fan are 134mm for the crank pulley and 84mm for the fan pulley. This will give you a ratio of 1.8:1.

Posted by: moparrob Feb 10 2011, 11:12 PM

by the way, what did you use on your fan strap to get that nice finish?

Posted by: mepstein Feb 11 2011, 08:04 AM

[quote name='Bee Jay' date='Feb 10 2011, 10:22 PM' post='1429772']
Look at what came in the mail today from Mark Epstien. Heater block off plates. I expected used up, beat up, oily, need painting tin. What arrived was practically new and so clean, so I just bolted them on. One is tin, the other is fiberglass. I think I will take them off and paint red to match the shroud. Thanks Mark. A pleasure doing business with you. Now as you can see, I need an alternator pulley half, nut, key, and shims. I'm almost ready to bolt the engine to the tranny.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Feb 12 2011, 10:42 PM

OK, I'm trying to figure out the oil lines. I assume that this long oil line

replaces this long hard oil line

So, I need to remove this line and I can only get this much movement from the line and connecting nuts

I can hack saw the hard line close to the nuts and get it off. But I just want to make sure, this long flex hose oil line plugs into here

on one end, and the side of the oil tank on the other end. I guess I need another adapter. What is the size of the metric connection into the bottom of the engine?
Thanks to everyone for their help on my project,
Bee Jay

Posted by: brp986s Feb 12 2011, 11:56 PM

If the 90 deg. end of your flex line will screw on to the open end of your hard line, then it will also fit onto the case fitting. If the straight end of your flex line fits onto the tank, then I guess you're set, assuming it's long enuff and clears the engine mount and exhaust. If not, then you're in a pickle, because I don't recognize that flex line.

A caveat - the beauty of that hard line is that it has the funky bends in it to clear the oil tubes and headers. It's a high heat area where I'd prefer not to use a flex line. If possible, maybe you could hack off the 90 deg open end of the hard line and move it to replace the upstream 90 deg bend. Weld it on, then adjust your flex line to suit. That's what I did, except that I put in an external cooler so the welded-on 90 deg thing was sent off in another direction. You have an after market engine mount and mine's OE, so that may affect things - dunno. Good luck.

Posted by: mepstein Feb 13 2011, 07:20 AM

Here's a 914-6 oil line and a 911 line that was modified by PMS for a 914-6 conversion. Modded line uses a flex line to fit and is a larger diameter. I think 16 vs 12. Total length of 914-6 hardline is 44" +/-


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 9146986 Feb 13 2011, 10:44 AM

Cut the hard line and silver solder or braze a AN fitting on it. You can get a steel 3/4" NPT /-12AN fitting, cut off the pipe threads and drill the fitting to accept the steel oil pipe, and braze it on. I've done a few like that.

Another option is to put a metric to AN adapter right on the case (where the oil pipe connects) and go with flex lines from that point. It's easier an less exposure to heat if you put a 90* fitting on the hose end that's going to connect to that fitting on the case, and then route the hose rearward, wrap it around the passenger side of the engine and then back to the tank, or to a t-stat if you are running an aux oil cooler.

Posted by: Bee Jay Feb 13 2011, 08:40 PM

Ok, I figured it out. First, I found this fitting at the bottom of my oil tank and lines box.

Then using a very large adjustable cresent wrench I got the hard line out.

The fitting goes into the side of the engine, and the oil line attaches. The other end of this line will go to the oil tank for now, but toward RX-7 oil cooler in the nose of the car after I get things working.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Feb 18 2011, 10:59 PM

I painted the block off plates red to match the fan shroud.

Posted by: Bee Jay Feb 21 2011, 11:39 PM

This weekend was productive. I had to replace the broken sump plate screen. The Cap'n had one in his shop. I sealed up the bottom of the engine and was ready to transfer the engine from the engine stand to the dolly I built. There is something really cool about an engine hanging off of a hoist. Now I can install the Kennedy flywheel, the clutch, and bolt on the tranny. Well first I have to get the 911 flywheel off. What size torx is needed for this flywheel?
Bee Jay

Posted by: brp986s Feb 22 2011, 10:01 AM

The flywheel bolts use a triple square, not torx. I don't remember if 10 or 12 mm, but I got mine from performance products (for too darn much). You can probably get them from Baum or Stahlwille.

Maybe not what you want to hear having got those valve covers all spiffed out, but the ribs look deep like they haven't been shaved. If so, they can't be taken off with the engine installed.

There is something about the torque spec for those flywheel bolts. The spec may be insufficient. I believe Bruce Anderson recommends thread locker on those bolts. I've heard of cases where they've backed off in-situ - not nice.

Posted by: dion9146 Feb 22 2011, 10:08 AM

EXACTLY the route that I took, except I also have a thermostat on the right side of the engine compartment leading to an external cooler. Routing the flex line rearward and over the headers kept it away from the heat between the headers/heads.

And here I thought that I was the only one who took that bonehead route....

Dion

Posted by: db9146 Feb 22 2011, 02:40 PM

Have you looked at using Starlite hose? It is considerably lighter if you are using a lot of flex lines rather than hard lines.

Posted by: Bee Jay Feb 23 2011, 08:20 PM

The Captain, John Larson, lent me the 12 point tool to get the bolts of the old flywheel off. After I got it off, I tried to test fit the Kennedy Engineering flywheel. Dang thing would not bolt up. After much head scratching, I figured it out. The flywheel will on bolt on one way, you have to rotate it untill all bolt holes line up. I never read that anywhere. But now I know.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Feb 27 2011, 10:24 PM

This weekend I cleaned the tranny, and bolted the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, starter, and tranny to the engine. I like visual progress. I will now start wiring Perry's harness to the engine. I'm going to need help figuring out what sensors to use, and what sensors to ignore. I got plenty of sensors, but I'm going carbs, so I don't think I need all of them. Also, you will notice the lower valve covers are gone. I gave them to the Captain to be shaved down. I hope they can do it without messing up the powdercoat.
Bee Jay


Three sensors in this picture of the drivers side front.

One sensor on the passenger side front.

Two sensors here by the oil breather hole.

Posted by: moparrob Feb 27 2011, 10:36 PM

Looking good! I'm right behind you. I ordered my harness up after seeing yours and am waiting for it to arrive.

I'm looking forward to hearing how you end up dealing with those sensors, since I have a '79 3.0 with the same exact sensors - and I am also going with Webers and MSD.

Does one need to buy an entirely new flywheel from Kennedy if using a 3.0 with a 901 trans? I thought you could use a flywheel ring or something.

Did you go with a Stage II pressure plate?

Posted by: 9146986 Feb 28 2011, 08:16 AM

You can pull and plug the senders on the chain covers. The canister type sender on the front is oil pressure, the nearest sender to that is oil temp, and the one on the case next to the case breather is oil pressure sender for warning light. The senders on the breather can be pulled and plugged.

Posted by: moparrob Feb 28 2011, 09:52 AM

Ahh, good information - thanks.

What is that other sensor below the breather in the bottom right corner of the last picture?

BTW - anyone know the thread on the sensors so that they can be plugged?

Posted by: Bee Jay Feb 28 2011, 05:13 PM

you can either send your Type IV flywheel to Kennedy Engineering to be modified for $200, or buy a new one from them for $300. I sent my old flywheel to be modified, but they called me and said it was junk. It was lightened and abused. So I had them make me a new one. I had just bought a 911 clutch and presure plate for the Type IV 2.0 liter and it didn't have hardly any wear, from Pelican Parts, so I'm using them again.
Bee Jay

Posted by: moparrob Mar 3 2011, 10:08 PM

Posted by: Bee Jay Mar 7 2011, 11:36 PM

I didn't get much done this weekend. Lot's of honey do's around the house and I spent Sunday in LA at the Dunkel Brothers swap meet. No, I didn't find any carbs. I got the fan belt on and fairly tight. Another job that sounds soooo easy whenever it's written. The alternator nut cost me $26, damn. Since I'm almost ready to put the engine in, I washed the engine compartment. Doesn't look like much, but it's much better than when I started. I saw a few very motivating 914-6 at the swap meet and car show. I can't hardly wait to get this thing running. I'll get to drive it to next years Dunkel Bros. Actually it's not called Dunkel Bros. anymore, but ....whatever.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Mar 10 2011, 12:09 AM

I bought three of these from NAPA. Oil Drain Plug part # 704-1379. $2.00 each, comes with crush washers. How does it look?
Bee Jay

Posted by: moparrob Mar 10 2011, 03:08 PM

Perfect! I'm on my way over to Napa now...

Thanks

Posted by: Bee Jay Mar 20 2011, 10:53 PM

One of my favorite lines from a Dirty Harry movie is "Hey man, I got's to know". I had the 914 on the lift installing engine and tranny mounts and a few odds and ends getting ready for the engine. I just had to know how the engine was going to fit. So I roll the engine dolly under the car and start lowering it. The tranny lined up with the tranny mounts just beautifully, but I coudn't get the engine close to the motor mounts because the trailing arm bolts were impacting the side engine tin. I only need about 1/4" more clearance on each side. I didn't want to crack my fiberglass engine tin so I didn't force it. I guess when I'm ready to install the engine for real, I'll need to remove the trailing arm bolt nuts and push in the bolt a little either on each side or just one side. That won't be for a while. I need to get my lower valve covers back from being machined, and I would really love to find carbs before installing the engine.
Bee Jay

Posted by: moparrob Mar 20 2011, 11:12 PM

Bee Jay,

Have you checked Pelican for carbs? There is a set for sale right now:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/597052-weber-40-ida-s.html

Rob

Posted by: davesprinkle Mar 21 2011, 08:34 PM

I think it's awesome that you have TWO port-a-potties.

Posted by: Ericv1 Mar 22 2011, 11:05 AM

This is just an observation, but you are going to have to cut off that blower mount on the drivers side engine shelf before you can put your oil filter on. Otherwise, you won't be able to screw it on.

Posted by: patssle Mar 22 2011, 01:12 PM

Why did you plug your oil temp and pressure senders? Don't you want to be able to monitor those?

Also why buy a new flywheel? Can't you use the one off the 3.0 with an adapter plate and ring gear?

I'm doing the same conversion (3.0 to 901) and that's what I was told.

Looking great! Nice to watch somebody chronicle their conversion before I do mine!

Posted by: moparrob Mar 22 2011, 01:56 PM

I just got off the phone with the folks at Kennedy Engineering, since I am at that stage as well.

You have two options:

1) Keep the stock 228mm flywheel (which they call 9 inch) and buy their ring gear part number 9-915. These are $170.

or

2) buy a new one-piece flywheel from them (with proper ring gear machined into flywheel) made of 1045 steel. Price $300.

Either way you will need a pressure plate, clutch disc and throw out bearing. That costs an additional $356 (for their stage 2 package).

The benefit to the one piece, new flywheel is that you can run a stock 215 mm disc and plate (lower cost, available at any parts store). You can still run the larger 228mm parts with the new flywheel also.

With the ring gear option you are required to use their 9 inch clutch which is more expensive than a stock 215 clutch and must be purchased thropugh them.

The advantage to the larger size (228) aside from the obvious size increase is that they offer up to a stage 4 for that plate, capable of over 600 ft. lbs. of torque, if you are so motivated.

They recommend that you re-surface you old flywheel if you are going to run only the ring gear, and I do not know what that procedure costs from a reputable machine shop. I'd venture the cost is pretty similar between using the ring gear and machining your old flywheel versus buying the new flywheel and avoiding the machining costs.

Ring gear plus clutch =$526

New flywheel plus clutch = $656


The only other benefit I can think of if you use your old flywheel is that you could have it lightened - if that is actually a benefit.


But then again, if you buy a new flywheel you could probably sell your stock one for around $100.00

Posted by: BKLA Mar 22 2011, 03:19 PM

I installed the engine side sheet metal AFTER installing the motor. Cleared the suspension no problem, and I didnt worry about banging them up

(I also cut out the -4 mounts and patched the longs where the mounts were removed.) that helped with install as well.

Posted by: Bee Jay Mar 22 2011, 03:51 PM

I sent my 2.0 four lightened flywheel to Kennedy to be modified for my 3.0. After inspecting it, they determined it was junk, so I bought a new 3.0 to 901 flywheel from them. I already had a good clutch and throwout bearing from the 2.0 and the new flywheel they made up will allow me to use my low milaege clutch.
Bee Jay

Posted by: patssle Mar 22 2011, 08:19 PM

Nice info, thanks!

Can you also comment on my other question please (in case you missed it with the flywheel talk):

Why did you plug your oil temp and pressure senders? Don't you want to be able to monitor those?

Posted by: moparrob Mar 22 2011, 09:45 PM

That is not what was plugged. The plugs were to cover openings left by unused sensors from the now-defunct CIS injection system. Gotta love those $2.00 Napa plugs..

Posted by: patssle Mar 23 2011, 09:19 AM

On the 4th page, he posted pictures of the sensors and 9146986 replied with:

Are those just for the CIS? Where are the real oil temp/pressure sensors? Or are there none?

Posted by: moparrob Mar 23 2011, 11:45 AM

Your question is rhetorical. If you analyze the quote, you will see:




Those ARE the senders.

Posted by: patssle Mar 23 2011, 02:07 PM

So then there are 6 senders?

Posted by: moparrob Mar 23 2011, 02:39 PM

My '79 only had the first 5 senders mentioned above. I don't have one on the breather, only the oil pressure light sender next to it.

Posted by: patssle Mar 23 2011, 04:54 PM

Ok. I was confused by having redundant sensors, but I guess it makes sense if they talk a different language to the gauges or CIS.

Do you have a product # on the NAPA plugs? (sorry if I missed it)

And sorry for semi-hijacking the thread!

Posted by: moparrob Mar 23 2011, 06:10 PM

I bought three of these from NAPA. Oil Drain Plug part # 704-1379. $2.00 each, comes with crush washers.

Posted by: Bee Jay Apr 2 2011, 11:03 PM

I'm waiting to find carbs, manifolds, linkage, etc. before installing the engine inside the engine bay. So I kept busy cleaning the engine compartment and mounting my CS style door pulls. Here is a before picture:

And here is the after picture:

I won't have to yank the window cranks to close the door anymore.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Apr 3 2011, 11:16 PM

I worked on the 914 some more today. Still waiting on carbs, so I did more non-conversion work. I installed the AA European Tail Light lens. The left lens did not fit so hot so I broke it forcing it. AA prolly won't replace it since I broke it installing it. Oh well, it's mounted. The new lens are very transparent from the side. You could not see the bulbs from the side with the originals.
Bee Jay
Before:

After:

Posted by: Bee Jay Apr 5 2011, 10:44 PM

I got the exhaust side valve covers back tonight. Not as much metal taken off as I expected, but I guess enough.
Bee Jay

Posted by: campbellcj Apr 6 2011, 09:54 PM

Looking good! IIRC there is a separate little reflector piece inside the stock housings that covers the bulb from the side, so you can't see it like that. Or am I confusing it with the 911 tail lamp?

Posted by: mepstein Apr 7 2011, 04:43 AM

Chris - you are correct. Mark

Posted by: jimkelly Apr 7 2011, 04:58 AM

believe it or not - the dmv inspector guy here in delaware noticed mine were missing and dinged for not having them.




Attached image(s)

Posted by: Bee Jay Apr 8 2011, 09:47 PM

I have carbs! Woohoo! Thanks Perry. Much, much, cleaner than I expected. These things are clean. I thought I was going to have to de-gunk and clean for days. These are ready to go. Manifolds and linkage are on the way.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Apr 13 2011, 10:45 PM

Good news. As promised the Carbs are set up perfectly for a 3.0 liter.
The carb set up Anderson recommends is:

40IDA-3C carbs
34 mm venturis 34mm
F3 emulsion tubes F3
160 main jets 155
175 air correction jets 175
60 or 65 idle jets, maybe even bigger to avoid part throttle surge 65

I'm waiting on intake manfolds to mount the carbs to the engine. In the mean time, I have a few questions.
What spark plugs should I run with a carbed 3.0 with stock cams?
Where do you get affordable (cheap) spark plug wires?
What oil filter do you run on a Velios Oil tank like I have?
I need to buy new distributor cap and rotor too.
I guess I should make this engine as complete as possible before mounting it into the car.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Apr 19 2011, 12:53 AM

I've got intake manifolds. They didn't look like this when I got them. I let them soak overnight in the parts washer, then I attacked them with my wire brush wheel. One small problem, these are two right side manifolds. The supplier said I simply make a left side manifold by removing the shaft from one of the manifolds. How do I do that? Do the shafts just pull out? Do I have to have them pressed out?I plan to paint them silver.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Apr 24 2011, 03:21 PM

OK. I have webers and I have factory 911 carb manifolds. I assumed all I needed were PMO insulators to put the manifolds onto my 82 3.0CIS heads. But when the Cap'n called PMO to order the insulators, the PMO guy poo poo'd my plan and said that the only way to do it properly was to use the insulators with PMO manifolds or have the injector notches welded up in the heads. what do you Guy think or recommend? Is there a way to make these manifolds work?

Posted by: rfuerst911sc Apr 24 2011, 05:24 PM

I'm running 911 manifolds with Weber carb's on my 1978 3.0 with just insulators and gaskets with no problems.

Posted by: moparrob Apr 24 2011, 09:05 PM

Why wouldn't it work? The insulator covers the injector notch and seals the manifold....

Posted by: Bee Jay May 5 2011, 10:56 PM

I now have 33mm PMO insulators/spacers. They do cover the fuel injection notch rather nicely and I don't see how a PMO manifold would do any different than this factory manifold. I could not resist the temptation to mock up the manifolds and carbs. I have to paint the manifolds and find the bushing that goes inside the bellcrank toward the back of the engine compartment, the bushing goes on the rod extending from the manifold. Also, the stock studs are long enough.
Bee Jay

Posted by: patssle May 6 2011, 09:04 AM

I thought I had read that you're suppose to take out those studs when converting to carbs. But from your pictures, it seems unnecessary, plenty of room for locking nuts.

It seems the spacers are required? Where did you get them, direct from PMO?

Posted by: Bee Jay May 6 2011, 10:58 AM

I got them form Bruce, FLAT6PACnc@aol.com on Pelican, a pleasure to deal with. Yes, they are PMO.
Bee Jay

Posted by: mepstein May 6 2011, 12:50 PM

Small world. Bruce helps me with advice and parts. He used to live in DE. I think he said he once sold a 914-6 GT to Brumos. Anyway, he know these cars and engines.

Posted by: Bee Jay May 6 2011, 04:31 PM

Where can I find the bushing that goes on this bellcrank. Is it a Porsche dealer item? Or can I find it in any FLAPS?
Bee Jay

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty May 6 2011, 05:19 PM

At a FLAPS? You're kidding, right? If you think they don't have 914 parts, they REALLY don't have 911 stuff. I have them. Bring the bell crank with you. I'll be here tomorrow.

The Cap'n

Posted by: Bee Jay May 6 2011, 08:31 PM

Yea, I was kidding. I'll swing by tomorow after the Pismo Beach Coffee and Donuts Derelects. Do you have carb to manifold gaskets?
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay May 8 2011, 01:16 AM

The Cap'n had the bellcrank busings. This is what they look like and how everything assembles. I figure someone else may be as clueless as me.
Bee Jay

Posted by: J P Stein May 8 2011, 08:44 AM

I agree with the PMO guy. You do not want any leakage there....ever. Tuning the Webers is tough enough without any variables built in.
....but do what you want.

Posted by: Bee Jay May 8 2011, 11:55 AM

I'm already in the search for PMO manifolds mode, but I still can't see how they will seal the spacers any better than the factory manifolds. Actually I think he preferred the heads be welded up.

Posted by: J P Stein May 8 2011, 01:49 PM

Plastic (or phenolic) is flexible. Bolt it to a semi-compressible surface (gasket) and the plastic will bend if not supported or squeezed. The phenolic spacer will
(by itself) not compress the gasket to the same thickness as under the manifold.
This could cause a gap to open up immediately or over time. A back fire could also blow out the gasket is not squeezed between two solid surfaces. Back fires & Webers while tuning are inseparable. Either way, it will cause a vacuum leak.
Personally, I like my stuff as bullet proof as I can make it.

I think you will find the welding & milling of the heads more expensive that PMO manifolds.

Posted by: Bee Jay May 8 2011, 02:36 PM

OK, I think I actually understand what you are saying now. So the PMO manifolds will do a better job of covering the entire gasket and spacer and not leave any exposed like this?


Bee Jay

Posted by: J P Stein May 8 2011, 04:46 PM

Yes, got a pic that shows the area not specifically for that but you can see the shape of the PMOs. I went thru the same quandry some years back.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: campbellcj May 8 2011, 07:03 PM

Another pic for ya. The manifold base is noticeably larger.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjcam/4318021804/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjcam/4318021804/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/cjcam/, on Flickr

Posted by: campbellcj May 8 2011, 07:04 PM

dupe

Posted by: moparrob May 8 2011, 08:14 PM

Bee Jay,

Are those intake studs long enough? It doesn't seem like the nylon part of the Nylock nut is actually engaging the threads. Is that an illusion or do they not protrude through?

Posted by: Bee Jay May 9 2011, 04:52 PM

The nylon part of the nuts are engaged, but I may remove the washers to get even more. What is the torque spec for the manifold to head nuts with phenolic spacers underneath? The picture was taken right after glueing the spacer gaskets in place. I'll retorque to the number I find out and I bet I get even more nylon.
Bee Jay

Posted by: eric9144 May 9 2011, 05:43 PM

Awesome!

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty May 9 2011, 06:20 PM

Glue? Nope. Don't need it. Most of it isn't fuel proof, anyway. Nylocs? Naah. Use no glue, get rid of the flat washers, use spring (AKA "wavy") washers and plain nuts. Torque them to 15 ft/lbs (or 18 if you want to).


The Cap'n

Posted by: Bee Jay May 17 2011, 11:49 PM

I got wavy washers and normal nuts from the Cap'n tonight and replaced the regular flat washers and nyloc nuts on the manifold. Torqued them to 15 ft/lbs. This is the result. Look OK? I am very glad that I'm doing this with the engine in my lap. I can't imagine doing this with the engine in the car.
Bee Jay

Posted by: patssle May 19 2011, 06:06 PM

Are those the PMO manifolds? I don't see too much of the gasket exposed in your last pictures vs your #129 post.

Posted by: Bee Jay May 19 2011, 07:13 PM

No, that's the same factory manifolds. Do you know where I can find some PMO manifolds, I mean other than brand new from PMO.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay May 19 2011, 11:32 PM

I cleaned and installed the throttle linkage. I could not find a clear set of pictures of how it was supposed to look, so here are pictures for later reference. I think the engine is ready for installation into the engine bay. Perhaps this weekend. My goal was to have the car down and running by this summer. That ain't gonna happen. Maybe I can get the engine in by June 1st.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay May 20 2011, 11:14 PM

The engine is in the car!
There are two 914-6 oil filters, so John let me take two home to figure it out. The Mahle OC54 Oil filter went in just fine with the heater motor brakcets there.
Now that the engine is in the car, the plumbing of oil and gas lines, electrical connections, and about a million other things can start now.
Bee Jay

Posted by: campbellcj May 20 2011, 11:27 PM

Woohoo, congrats! When is fire-up day?

Posted by: rfuerst911sc May 21 2011, 03:21 AM

Looking good Is your oil tank an OEM or aftermarket ? My DW Design tank it was suggested to use the OC61 which fits fine. Is the thread size different between the OC54 vs. OC61 ? Wait until you fire her up for the first time !! Keep us posted.

Posted by: kconway May 21 2011, 08:55 AM

Is there engine tin on this motor? Trying to see how it fits with the rubber or if rubber is actually used on conversions. Looks great!

Posted by: Bee Jay May 21 2011, 09:41 AM

I followed Wayne Dempsey's advice and installed the engine with no front or side tin (fiberglass) installed. The engine went in much easier than my last attemp with tin installed, and you need the access to the front engine mounts. I'll work on getting the engine tin in place today.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay May 21 2011, 09:44 AM

Aftermarket Velious tank. I bought it off of the internet and had no clue. I assumed that all 914-6 oil filters were the same. Yes, the OC 61 would not screw on because the fitting on the filter was way too small. I think the Capt'n said the OC 54 is the "late" size.
Bee Jay

Posted by: bcheney May 21 2011, 09:48 AM

Looking good Bee Jay...I should be right behind you with my conversion...really trying to get mine running before PCA Parade this summer...Keep up the great work!

Posted by: Bee Jay May 21 2011, 09:58 AM

Not sure. I was thinking about it last night instead of sleeping. I need a few things.
1. Time
2. Money
3. Knowledge and expertise. Thanks to John Larson, Wayne Dempsey, Tom Gould, Perry Keihl, and you guys here for the patience and advice along the way.

A few other things I need:
914-6 Throttle cable and trans bellcrank
A straight 914-6 shifter bar
A 911 muffler
A 911 tach
911 Spark plug wires
911 Sparkplugs
Webber air cleaner hats or air filters or even 914-6 air cleaner.
Time and money.
And a little good luck, my friend swore that this engine was running when he pulled it, but that was over 10 years ago, and I have no idea where he is now. No complaints though, I spent less on the engine than I did on the carbs, manifolds and linkage. I had planned on spending $6500 rebuilding it anyway, untill smarter heads convinced me to just clean it up and see if it ran. Rebuilding is no longer an option. I guess it really is cheaper to buy a running conversion, but you miss out on all of this fun. I've learned a lot too, so I'm a wiser man.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay May 21 2011, 10:00 AM

Thanks, the Rennsport is on the West Coast this year in October. It would be nice to drive a Porsche 914-6 up to it. We shall see. I'm surprised at how getting the engine mounted in the car is a motivating milestone.
Bee Jay

Posted by: GeorgeRud May 21 2011, 10:09 AM

If you have the original shiftbar, you can also just cut out the 'bent' part and replace it with a straight section of tubing to make a 914-6 bar. Obviously, you need to keep the length the same and be sure to keep the end pieces aligned corrctly, but it's not hard.

Looking around eBay, Samba, or 911 sites should easily find the other parts you're looking for.

BTW, I was told (but don't know from personal experience) that the 914-6 stock air cleaner assembly is not as tall as a 911 one, so check before buying one. The 'rainhat' style air cleaners work well and sound great on a -6.

As you've found out, it is much less money to buy a running conversion, but it's infinitely more fun to do your own, and the experience you gain is worth a lot.

Enjoy your project in good health!

BTW, my wife and I are flying out to attend the Rennsport Reunion in October, would love to see the project there! The riunion should be a good inspiration for you to get-er-dun!

Posted by: GeorgeRud May 21 2011, 10:12 AM

Posted by: patssle May 21 2011, 12:58 PM

Looks nice BJ! I just got my Webers back today, fully rebuilt and no missing parts. Need to pull the 911 into the garage and start tearing off the CIS.

I don't know of any place to get PMO manifolds cheaper. But I talked to a guy who knows Weber/PMOs well and he said it's fine with Weber manifolds.

Why are you changing the shift bar? I thought the original will work fine?

Also, some say the trans bellcrank for the throttle isn't necessary. Might want to test it without the cable to see if it's practical.

And which air cleaners are you planning on using? I have some K&N with some missing parts, and see a couple posts that they are not good to use.

Posted by: Bee Jay May 21 2011, 11:09 PM

I bet a few of you had a good laugh at me last night. "Ha, he thinks he's gonna install the front engine tin with the engine locked and loaded into place"
Well, that's what I thought. I could not do it. Wasn't gonna happen. No way, no how. Soooooo... I'll just loosen the tranny motor mount bolts a little and undo the front motor mounts and lower the front of the engine on my jack untill I can slip the front engine tin into place. Well,.....if you rotate the engine too much, the rear tranny mount bolts slip right out of the transmission bolt holes. Why are they open to the front like that? So I ended up with the engine back in my lap and out of the car. Installing yesterday went just too smoothly. The engine is half on my jack and half on the ground and all my friends I call are busy. With my lovey wifes help and some clever jack work, I got the engine back on the engine dolly and the engine back in the car, but this time with the front engine tin in place. Another hint, things go much better if you remove your rear wheels while installing, deinstalling the engine. I hope whoever is doing a six install in the future for the very first time, is paying attention.
Hint 1: pre position the front engine tin before installing the engine.
Hint 2: Remove the rear wheels to make it easier to see and reach the engine as you lower the car to it.
Bee Jay

Bee Jay

Posted by: kconway May 21 2011, 11:14 PM

Bee Jay, what mount are you using? I've heard you cannot install that tin before and that you have to cut hte front tin into two pieces and install it after with a Rich Johnson mount. I'm sizing my install up and can use any advice available.

Kev

Posted by: Bee Jay May 22 2011, 06:12 AM

Nope, you can't install it before, you need access to the engine mounts while installing. You can just lay the front tin up on the shelf just before you lower the car or raise the engine. I should have taken pictures but I was in no happy snaps mood. It's a good thing the world didn't end yesterday as predicted because I lost my religion a couple of times.
Here is a picture of the motor mount.

Bee Jay



If you look closely at this picture, you can see the left front motor mount and how easily you can access it with the engine tin not installed. This picture is from Friday, when I didn't even have the front engine tin sitting on the front engine bay shelf.


Here is a picture of the tranny mount. If you tilt the engine too much, the bolt will slip right out of the front, which would be obvious to the average dumbass, but I excell in that category.

Posted by: jaxdream May 22 2011, 09:45 AM

Doood , you missing that big cup type washer that goes on top of the trans ear , it helps to prevent slippage off of boltus.
Looking great , keep at it .

Jack

Posted by: 9146986 May 22 2011, 09:52 AM

I've never tried to install the engine without the tins, interesting. It takes a left handed-ambidextrious midget to get those engine bolts in place, but I was able to do it. (no insult intended for "little people")

I make conversion shift rods Beej, shoot me a email or PM. The stock one won't work. All I need is about 6" off the front (where the coupling is) and about 10" of the rear part. Just make sure the rear part of the shift rod is smooth and not pitted, otherwise it will chew up the bushing.

Lookin good!!

Posted by: Bee Jay May 22 2011, 09:03 PM

THE ENGINE TIN IS IN! I know exactly what you are saying, "Big Whoop".
Well Perry said it best, to install the front and side tin with the engine installed requires an ambidextrious, powerful, little person. It's about all I got accomplished today other than work on the motor and trans mounts. I think if you can do it, install the engine with the tin installed. Remove the trailing arm bolts if you have to. JMHO.

Posted by: Bee Jay May 22 2011, 09:05 PM

Thanks Perry. Email coming your way.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay May 22 2011, 09:24 PM

Thanks Jack. Fixed it, I think.


Also, while I was in there, I did something about something that was bugging me. I don't understand the engineering on the motor and trans mounts, but there is this huge giant thick bolt that holds the engine to the motor mount, but two skinny, puny, seemingly inadequate bolts that hold the motor mount to the car. So I drilled the motor mount holes out a little, and installed larger bolts.

Posted by: Bee Jay May 30 2011, 09:52 PM

This was a really rough Memorial Day weekend for the 914-6 conversion project. I took Friday off and spent 3 1/2 hours trying to get the balls back into the left CV joint. No matter how much I cussed and fussed they would not go back in. Same thing for over an hour Saturday morning. I asked Gill to come over and help me install them on Memorial Day. He slept in, so I decided that I would get them in before he came over. NO JOY! Gosh darn it. Gill shows up, takes a look, removes the balls, pulls the boot back, and puts the balls into the CV joint. 5 minutes max. I hate when he does that. Happy that my CV joint was back together, but pissed that I couldn't do it. We spent the rest of the hour designing a bell crank less six throttle linkage. I hope Terry Cable will build me a 914-6 throttle cable 17 inches longer than the 914-4 cable. After Gill left, I started on other things. I bolted up the axles to the tranny, and I installed the headers. BIG PROBLEM. The oil cooler outlet is way too close to one of the header pipes. So close, I can't tighten the -12 line. DAMN. The modified 90 degree bend drops too far from the cooler. Maybe John Larson can have it modified again so that the 90 degree attchement is closer to the cooler. I think there is room to move it at least 3/4" closer. At least one good thing, I had the oil cooler out in about 15 minutes. Just remove some tin and unbolt. When I had a leak in the 2.0 four engine cooler, I spent all day getting the oil cooler out. Maybe the fix won't take long.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Jun 3 2011, 10:26 PM

WOW! I called Terry Cables Tuesday morning to order a stock 914 clutch cable and a throttle cable 17" longer than stock with a 914-6 threaded end. Both were delivered Thursday evening. The throttle cabel was exactly what I ordered. Granted they are right here in Cali, but they must have made the custom cable the day I called and shipped that night. What a pleasant surprise.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jun 3 2011, 11:08 PM

If I had only known you can't install the motor with the front tin on using that mount, I wouldn't have done it ........................

And what's this "Cali" s*#&!? You get those cables from Colombia?

The Cap'n, Krusty mode on. Call my state "Calif.", CA, or "California", but don't call it "Cali". It just ain't right.

Posted by: markb Jun 3 2011, 11:10 PM

Posted by: Bee Jay Jun 4 2011, 09:32 AM

Good morning Captain John, how are you this fine Kalifornia day? Have some coffee and a cinamin roll. We don't want to get you irritated and bring Cap'n Crusty out. It's like the Hulk, "you wouldn't like me when I'm angry".

I have a lift, a decent set of tools, and my lovely wife Sylvia helping me, but I can never do what you can do with a 914 with a patch over one eye, a hand tied behind your back, and no lift. That is why you are the Cap'n.
Can your guy modify my oil cooler?
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Jun 4 2011, 09:35 AM

Mark? Is that you?

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jun 4 2011, 10:12 AM

That's a "yes" on the oil cooler. It's being picked up today, sometime after the verdammt Elks get their horse poopin' arses off my street and get down to some serious goat ropin'. Rodeo weekend.

The Cap'n

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 4 2011, 11:07 AM

Guess i did it wrong too by mounting the tin on the engine first.

I'll remember to leave it off next time.

Posted by: markb Jun 4 2011, 11:52 AM

Yup.

Posted by: Bee Jay Jun 5 2011, 10:30 PM

This was a much better weekend for the 914 conversion. I was in LA last week so I stopped by Earl's Plumbing Store #1 in Lawndale and picked up a -12 to -12 connector with a drain plug in it. Then on Thursday the new clutch cable and 17" longer throttle cabel showed up. Then on Saturday, the shifter rod that Perry Kiehl modded for me showed up. It rained Saturday, so I wrenched Sunday, today. First I replaced the clutch cable and installed the new throttle cable and built an aluminum bracket. This is temporary because I beleive Gill will build something more exotic. But in the mean time, the throttle works pretty good.
Then I installed the shifter rod. Perry does amazing work, the rod looks better than new with paint and polishing, and it fit perfectly. I'm extremely pleased with everything he has done for me on this conversion.
Doesn't seem like much progress, but it took most of my afternoon. I also started doing some electrical connections, the MSD box in particular.
The oil cooler is off getting re-modded and the light at the end of the tunnel may not be another train. I need a few things.
1. A 2.0 liter muffler hanger
2. Some spark plug wires
2. Dizzy cap, rotor, and spark plugs.
and 3. a 911 tach, some prayers and a little luck.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Scott Schroeder Jun 6 2011, 09:10 AM

Are you getting full throttle with your cable set up like that?

Posted by: Bee Jay Jun 6 2011, 10:53 AM

I believe so, I will have someone operate the pedal while I look under the hood tonight.
Bee Jay

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 6 2011, 10:58 AM

For optimal rotation, the front and back of the shift rod should be in the same plane. Otherwise, you'll get binding on the rod during rotational twist.

Posted by: 9146986 Jun 6 2011, 11:17 AM

A stock 914-4 isn't that way, the aft end of the stock shift rod has a distinct angle, that is not on the same plane as the front, it angles toward the centerline of the car. The jig I use to make these is also used to check a stock 914-4 shift bar.

Posted by: Bee Jay Jun 6 2011, 01:16 PM

Perry's bar fits perfect and shifts perfect, well, as perfect as a 901 side shift can. Porsche 914 owners should never drive Mazda Miatas. That shift linkeage is perfect.
Bee Jay

Posted by: campbellcj Jun 6 2011, 10:01 PM

I have a spare 2L muffler bracket that's yours for the asking if you are either back in LA soon or want to toss me a few bucks (and your address) for postage.

Posted by: Bee Jay Jun 6 2011, 11:50 PM

Thanks Cambellcj. I'm asking. My adress is:
Bernard E. Jones
3123 Manley Drive
Lompoc, CA. 93436
I'll gladly pay for shipping. Paypal? Cash?
Bee Jay
PS. I love your car.

Posted by: Bee Jay Jun 7 2011, 12:02 AM

Yep, I'm getting full throttle.
While testing for full throttle I saw the bracket flex a little, so I beefed it up with this brace.



Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Jun 22 2011, 11:30 PM

I got the oil cooler back from Captain Krusty yesterday. I now have at least 1/2" space between the oil cooler and the header. It's been a few weeks, but now I can get back to work. I put the oil cooler and engine back tonight. Then I ran the oil lines from the cooler and from the engine to the oil tank.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Jun 23 2011, 11:24 PM

I got a 2.0 liter muffler hanger from Campbellcj and an old muffler from Gill Paszek. Tonight I mounted the headers, muffler hanger, and muffler. I have an exhaust sytem. I think I'm done down here. I'm headed top side to finish plumbing the fuel lines and ignition.
I need a set of spark plug wires.
Bee Jay

Posted by: campbellcj Jun 23 2011, 11:40 PM

Looking really good Bee Jay. What kind of plug wires are you leaning towards?

Posted by: moparrob Jun 23 2011, 11:40 PM

Bee Jay,

I just bought a new set of Magnecor wires for my conversion, so if you want you can have my old set of stock metal-shielded wires that came off my 1978 3.0 engine. They are in nice shape - I just wanted to spend some more money and make it pretty.

Figure $10.00 for shipping.

My paypal is robrose426@att.net

I saw your address in an earlier post - I'm assuming that is where you want them sent?

Rob

Posted by: rfuerst911sc Jun 24 2011, 05:42 AM

I'm using Clewett ignition wires on both of my 3.0 engines I like them. I bought both from Pelican Parts. Your project is looking good keep the updates coming.

Posted by: Bee Jay Jun 24 2011, 08:24 AM

Thanks Rob. You've got money. I put a little extra in so you can take the Mrs. out for a $5 footlong. This forum rocks.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Jun 24 2011, 08:28 AM

Once this engine fires, or should I say if, I'll eventually get some pretty red spark plug wires, mabye a polished stainless muffler, some fancy steel braided fuel lines, and more. Right now I just want to get it started and maybe drive it around the block. I don't have an engine stand or dyno, so the car is the engine stand. I've owned this car for 15 years and I guess I'll never be finished with it. Thanks for all the nice words.
Bee Jay

Posted by: moparrob Jun 24 2011, 12:34 PM

You're quite welcome. Your project has been an inspiration to my own conversion project. I'm probably about 6 months behind you unless I get a sudden burst of inspiration at some point soon.

The wires were shipped out priority mail today. You should have them tomorrow or Monday. I'm expecting a video to be posted of the startup

Rob

Posted by: Bee Jay Jun 28 2011, 12:43 AM

Got em Rob. Thanks a bunch. They are in great shape. I cleaned them up just a little and put them in the car. I also hooked up the relay board and ran the battery cables. I powered the car up for a moment, turned on the headlights and honked the horn. Fuel lines to the carbs are next.
Bee Jay

Posted by: moparrob Jun 28 2011, 12:50 AM

Excellent! I'm glad they are being put to good use.

I'll be watching your thread for the start-up video.

Now it's time to get mine moving forward...

Posted by: rfuerst911sc Jun 28 2011, 03:54 AM

Add some large stainless steel clamps to that muffler so all the weight isn't hanging off the two bolts on the muffler bracket. You'll possibly tear out the welds on the inlet pipes.

Posted by: Bee Jay Jun 28 2011, 08:20 AM

OK, Thanks. That makes sense. What do the clamps wrap around other than the muffler? The heat shield? Got any pictures?
Thanks again. This forum rocks.
Bee Jay

Posted by: rfuerst911sc Jun 28 2011, 04:01 PM

I don't have a picture but hopefully I can explain. Look at the back of your muffler the side facing the engine/muffler bracket. Take a tape measure and measure the distance from the muffler can to the muffler bracket. Bend up some metal so you can weld it to the muffler bracket to make up the gap. Basically a short " U " if that makes sense. On the muffler side of this bracket I just took some fiberglass insulation and glued it with spray adhesive. It only has to hold until the muffler is in place. Now you have something for the clamps to hold onto. Hope this makes sense.

Posted by: campbellcj Jun 28 2011, 06:52 PM

I don't think the factory sixes, or most conversions for that matter, use 911-style band clamps but there is a lot of stress on the muffler inlet pipes when supporting the entire weight of the muffler.

My M&K muffler, around 1/2 the weight of a stock banana, ripped at those welds and had to be repaired and braced. Having a better support possibly would have prevented that. I believe Ben has started bracing them now in his later versions (I have an early 911R 2in/2out version.)

Nowadays I run megaphones and the regular bracket seems totally adequate to support those.

Posted by: patssle Jun 28 2011, 07:41 PM

Great tips! Glad Beejay is doing this thread and is ahead of me, I get to see everything I'm going to do before I do it!

Just put my carbs on this evening with the 3.0L engine still in the 911. Gotta put the fan back on, get some fuel hose, and it'll be about ready to fire up! Your carb pics were of great help.

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 5 2011, 10:43 PM

It was a very nice 4th of July weekend. The weather was great, I had three days off, and Sylvia was out of town. So I spent most of the weekend wrenching, not solely on the Porsche, but mostly.
I filled the tranny with 2.5 quarts of synthetic gear oil. I adel clamped the oil lines to make sure they never wandered close to the header pipes. I installed a new fuel filter and ran hose to a pressure gauge and to the Webbers. I turned the key on and the fuel pump is working perfectly. I ran a 1" vent hose from the oil tank to the outlet on top of the engine. I turned the key on and checked out all of the electricals and the gauges. I have to find the oil pressure wire in the dash, but in the mean time I can use the wire I used for the four. I installed the distributor after removing the vacuum can to improve acess in the engine compartment. I used safety wire to lock down the vacuum advance plate. The spark plug wires are installed and plugged into the dizzy.
I think I'mn getting close. I need to find a pair of air cleaners and I haven't been to sucessful at shopping for those and I need a 911 tach. I need to fill the Velois tank with oil. How much does it hold? Anyone. I have to buy six spark plugs. What works good in a carbed 3.0 SC engine. Maybe instead of a 911 tach, I can get one of these:
http://www.technoversions.com/TachMatchHome.html


It's weird. Instead of getting excited, I'm really worried. I decided, with some good advice, not to rebuild this engine. Just stick it in and see if it runs. What if it doesn't? What if it does and rattles and smokes like Joe Camel. What if the pressure fed tensioners don't tension. Is this MSD wired right? I'm a nervous wreck. Maybe it wall start and everything will be fine.
I guess If I don't find air cleaners or a tach soon, I could crank it up without. Maybe this weekend. Drinks are on me if it starts. If all goes well, I can drive it up to Rennsport reunion in October.
Bee Jay

Posted by: jcd914 Jul 5 2011, 11:29 PM

Bee Jay,
I always get nervous before starting and engine that I've done a lot of work on. You aways wonder if you missed something or in your case there is a problem you didn't know about. All you can to is dot the "I's" and cross the "T's" as best you can and keep moving forward.
I always crank the engine over the first time without the plugs in it until I get oil pressure. So after you get oil in it (probably 8 qts to start with) and an oil pressure gauge wired in, crank it over with the no power to the ignition system.

Good luck
Jim

Posted by: moparrob Jul 5 2011, 11:35 PM

Don't worry about those thing that are out of your control. It's a Porsche and it will start and run like a champ (once you get the Webers set up).

Out of curiosity, why did you choose to buck the conventional wisdom regarding your gear oil choice. Everything I have read to date seems to say Swepco 201 is the hot ticket for the 901 gear box. I've heard of trannys chewing up their insides if you use Red Line or other synthetics. Which did you end up using?

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 6 2011, 11:41 AM

I didn't know conventional wisdom was to use Swepco. I think I put Castorl 75w90 synthetic. I'll have to check when I get home.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Scott Schroeder Jul 6 2011, 11:57 AM

Hi Bee Jay -
What fuel pump and pressure regulator did you go with? Did you dead head the fuel flow at the carbs or are you running a return line back to the tank?

Posted by: patssle Jul 6 2011, 12:13 PM

Thankfully I did my Weber conversion while the engine is still in running order in the 911. A little peace of mind that when I put the /6 into the 914 - that'll be one less thing to diagnose if it doesn't start!

Did you get your dizzy recurved? I'm trying to decide if I wanted to get mine re-curved or a programmable ignition (MSD 6AL2) but Barry in Detroit said the programmable won't work. But I've read otherwise.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jul 6 2011, 01:47 PM

"Conventional wisdom" in this case consists of believing too much of what you read in "enthusiast" magazines and forums like this one, without considering the qualifications and agenda of the person making the statement. Regular gear oil is cheaper than "SWEPCO 201" or synthetics, and works just fine in our gearboxes, providing you use GL5 ONLY. I've never heard of properly used synthetic gear oils "chewing up" the insides of gearboxes, and I've been rebuilding Porsche trannies since 1971. If they meed the specs, they'll do the job, albeit at a price far higher than conventional gear oils.

I read Bee Jay's answer to this question, and I caution him to look at the Castrol container. If it doesn't say GL5, it's the WRONG gear oil. No GL4-GL5, no one-size-fits-all, no MoSO2 additives, just "GL5".

The Cap'n

Posted by: tomeric914 Jul 6 2011, 01:56 PM

I agree with the Cap'n. It's been mentioned elsewhere, and I have noticed, that "conventional GL-5 gear oil" doesn't leak past tranny seals whereas synthetic oils do. Don't waste your money.

Here's Syntec http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=82915494&contentId=7036193

Here's regular Hypoy C http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9012228&contentId=7036192

Both are listed as GL-5 for 75W-90

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 6 2011, 03:16 PM

Hey, that's the stuff I put in!!!!. I guess I'm alright. Geez, this Porsche tranny is more picky than my Ferrari tranny. Put the wrong stuff in there and you've got real problems.
Thanks guys for not letting me mess up.

Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 10 2011, 11:37 PM

IT STARTED!!!!
Saturday I filled the oil tank with 8 quarts of Shell 10W30. Then I cranked for 60 seconds. The starter works good. For 15 seconds, nothing, then the oil light went off, then the oil pressure gauge jumped up to 20. OK, good starter, good oil pump. This morning, Sunday, I hooked up the coil and one NGK BPR6ES spark plug to the #1 spark plug wire. I cranked again, and the spark plug sparked. Then I put the six plugs in gapped at .040. Then I plugged the fuel pump in and turned the key on, 8 psi. That is strange, because the same fuel pump did 4psi with the four cylinder engine and a pair of Dellorto carbs. Soon, the carbs were pumping when gave it some throtle and they weren't leaking. OK, oil pressure, spark, fuel pressure. At 3:40 pm, I cranked for about 30 seconds, nothing. I pumped the carbs a few times and cranked some more. The engine was trying but not quite starting. Then on the next crank it started. Praise God and Thank you Jesus! Wohoo. I kept it reved for about a minute and then let off the throttle, the engine was idling. I have no idea what it was idling at, the tach was not working, but it was idling. The oil pressure was pegged and I could not tell if the oil temp gauge was working because it was pegged cold. I let it run for 15 minutes and the oil pressure started coming down a little. That was as long as I wanted to go with no Tach, no oil temp, and I wasn't sure how close the timing was. I have a major oil leak from somewhere in the front of the engine, and a few minor leaks in other places. I hope nothing major, but the major leak might be behing the motor mount. The fuel pressure is too high, so I will have to address that. The engine smoked like a chimney at first, but now it only smokes when I give it gas. I hope that doesn't continue but I know I bought a high mileage engine. And I still need air cleaners and a tach. But tonight I am happy the engine started. I'll set the timing and adjust the carbs this week. Film at 11.
Bee Jay

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 10 2011, 11:59 PM

Hey congrats BeeJay, that's awesome!

You can find good "T" or "E" tachs on the Pelican or Early 911S boards all the time; they're way cheaper than "S" tachs and you can always have them rebuilt with a different redline mark if you wish. Bummer on the timing - I had a spare tach for years but just sold it recently.

Posted by: AZ914 Jul 11 2011, 08:03 AM

Awesome BeeJay! BTW, thanks for this thread and all the detail and pictures... it is really helping me with my conversion.

Posted by: RiqueMar Jul 11 2011, 08:25 AM

We need another smiley that says, "THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT VIDEO!"

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 11 2011, 08:39 AM

Here is the video, I hope. Nothing special. Engine idleing.
http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g33/Beejay007/Porsche/?action=view&current=914-6conversion11342.mp4

Posted by: moparrob Jul 11 2011, 09:20 AM

Awesome! That made my morning complete.

Posted by: RiqueMar Jul 11 2011, 09:42 AM

Awesome to hear! Get that thing done for Rennsport Reunion! I believe I read earlier in your thread that you are going?

Posted by: patssle Jul 11 2011, 09:47 AM

Very nice!

I see you put the 911 oil temp/pressure gauge where the fuel gauge use to go, did it fit right in or did it require any modification to the dash plate?

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 11 2011, 12:19 PM

Sliped right in. I didn't use factory wiring, so now I have to go figure our where the factory wires are.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 11 2011, 12:23 PM

Thanks Qarl. Not going anywhere if I don't resolve the oil leaks.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jul 11 2011, 12:55 PM

10w30? Your engine takes 20w50, not 10w30. It's way too thin, and will cause a substantial oil pressure drop at higher ambient temperatures.

I don't see "GL5" printed anywhere on that Castrol bottle. Maybe it's on the other side? Picture, please? As for the Porsche tranny being more picky that the one in your Ferrari, I doubt it. Italian carmakers are also very specific in the lubricants they use. Yours takes GL5, as well. IIRC, Ferraris of the vintage yours is use Porsche style synchros.

The Cap'n

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 11 2011, 01:45 PM

Got it. 20w50. I'll change the oil as soon as I get the carbs synched, the timing set, and the major oil leak solved. I always listen to the Cap'n.
The Castorl bottle said GL5 on the back. I'll take a picture or bring the empty bottle by. That is why I bought the Castrol synthetic, it's recommended in the Ferrari.
How are you Cap'n Krusty? Have a nice day. See you soon.
Bee Jay

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 11 2011, 02:06 PM

BeeJay - re. the oil - also note that 8 quarts might be too little depending on your auxiliary oil cooler (if any) and lines. Check carefully before you run the engine. My car takes around 11-12 qts...

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 13 2011, 02:46 PM

I started the car up again last night and attempted to tune up a little. The timing was way off at 60+ degrees. It is amazing how the engines will run with so much timing. I had to remove the dizzy and rotate it one tooth to get close. I now have it at 5 degrees initial, and it comes up to about 20 degrees total when I rev it. I will have to get a recurved dizzy, but man are those things expensive. I also tried to balance the carbs a little. I will need to work at this some more. But it seems that some cylinders are not contributing as much as others. Each header pipe gets hot, so they are all firing and combusting I hope. The engine runs at actually too high idle with the passenger side carbs butterfly shut. Like I said, I'll need to work on the carbs a little.
I only got one response from my wtb thread on Pelican Parts for air cleaners. I might have to break down and buy new air cleaners. It's only money and hey, it is a Porsche. Like the Cap'n said, "stop your whining".
The fan belt is way too loose now and making bad noises and there is a serious oil leak up front, so I think the engine will have to come out to adress both. I was hoping I would not have to do that, but hey, no whining. I'm still looking for a tach, so I'm hoping to find out what I'm actually idling at. I also need to chase down the oil temp wire in my gauges and in the engine compartment. I'll take the car off of the lift and put it away for now. At least I won't have to push it into the garage, I can drive it in. Don't worry Gill, I wont drive it down the block with no registration, no tachometer, no air cleaner, a bad oil leak, and no oil temp...........ok, maybe down the block and back.
Bee Jay

Posted by: patssle Jul 13 2011, 04:22 PM

I got quoted for $600 for a rebuild and recurve on my '81 dizzy from Barry in Detroit. Pricey, but it'll last forever.

What was the response for your air-cleaners?

Posted by: rfuerst911sc Jul 13 2011, 05:35 PM

Bee Jay I have some billet aluminum K&N air filter tops/bases with filters if you're interested. PM me for details if interested.

Posted by: moparrob Jul 13 2011, 06:21 PM

Jerry Woods just did a complete rebuild and recurve of my '79 SC distributor for $475. Same setup as yours, I believe. Weber 40's and stock cam.

Nice guy to deal with also.

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 13 2011, 08:32 PM

You can also get the K&N water shield or flat top air filters from PMO in the $125-150 ballpark as I recall. Richard is very helpful for carb issues or parts in general.

The fan belt can be done with the engine in, BTDT earlier this year, but it's no fun.

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 13 2011, 11:01 PM

Heck yes I'm interested. PM sent. Or you can email me at:
beejay.jones@gmail.com
Thanks
Bee Jay

Posted by: patssle Jul 14 2011, 04:21 PM

They are running $200 now.



If for some reason he doesn't buy, I might be interested too. Right now I have 2 aluminum tops and just 1 bottom and no filters. I need 1 more bottom.

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 14 2011, 07:13 PM

$200 for a new set of K&N watershield air cleaners? Where? PMO? Maybe that is the way for me to go. Used filter sets are running $150.
Bee Jay

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 14 2011, 07:23 PM

Yup, $200 per the web site. I stand corrected (hey, I bought mine quite a few years ago.)

http://www.pmocarb.com/parts.htm

Posted by: patssle Jul 14 2011, 08:27 PM

As he linked, PMO. You can buy them at youroil.net.

Where are you finding used for $150? I haven't really found anything new/used for Weber 3 bbl filters aside from Pelican and PMO.

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 15 2011, 09:54 PM

I found this on the Summit web site and thought I had made a major find.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KNN-56-1770-2/
http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=56-1770-2

Then I called Summit to order, but first I'd like to make sure that the Engine Kit for $135 included a pair or set of air cleaners. The tech at Summit said "good question". He's sure it includes a pair but calls K&N to confirm. After being on hold for a long time he comes back and says that K&N told him that the price is each and I would need 2 for my 911. So that would be $270 for the pair. The PMO watershield is looking better and better at $200
Bee Jay

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 15 2011, 10:05 PM

BeeJay, I got those type of flat tops from PMO. They aren't on the web site as I recall, but available by request. Interesting Richard told me the flat tops are quieter than the watershields. At least I think that's what he said - I didn't notice on my LOUD car. They are lighter too.

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 15 2011, 10:16 PM

My 914-4 got left out one night and it rained. When I went to crank it the engine hydro locked. I had to pull the plugs and crank it till the water was cleared before I could start it. I think for that reason alone I should go with watershields. Here is a picture I promised the Cap'n. The back side of my trans oil bottle.

Posted by: patssle Jul 15 2011, 10:22 PM

Interesting, I'll have to get in contact with him. Here's the mess I have. 1 of each style (A and C) and old K&N filters that fit neither. Grrr. Trying to figure out if new K&N filters will fit them or not.

Posted by: patssle Jul 15 2011, 10:27 PM

THANK YOU! I've been trying to find these filters on their website with NO LUCK. By dimensions or by car. Nothing.

Posted by: patssle Jul 16 2011, 10:25 AM

Ooops, delete this post.

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 16 2011, 10:46 PM

Today I drove over to Santa Maria for the GPR event and to John Larson's (the Cap'n) place in search of a tachometer and maybe some air filters. I didn't find either, but John had this laying around.


John says it's a 911 Magnaflow muffler that is for sale by the owner, but take it home, see if it will fit. I had to remove the heat shield under the trunk, but I got it in.



I got the oil temp gauge to work. I can't wait to get a chance to drive this thing. Soon I hope. I know, this post is useless without video. So I took a couple.
Bee Jay
http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g33/Beejay007/Porsche/?action=view&current=914-6conversion11356.mp4
The smoke goes away after it's warmed up, and I still have some oil leaks to address, but it's comming along nicely.
Here is another video of the engine running. I'll bleed the brakes today and drive up the street to knock off some rotor rust. Yea, that's it, I need to knock off some rotor rust.
http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g33/Beejay007/Porsche/?action=view&current=914-6conversion11357.mp4

Posted by: moparrob Jul 17 2011, 12:17 AM

Cool. It sounds nice. I think it sounds better than the previous muffler you were running...

Posted by: 9146986 Jul 17 2011, 07:46 AM

Leave the 2.0 badge on back

No heat shield is good if you want to keep pizzas warm for delivery!

A customer with 6 conversion that I did several years ago wanted to remove the heat shield, so we put some Thermo-Tec heat sheild self adhesive mat on the underside of the trunk floor.

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 17 2011, 09:24 AM

I started the car for the first time with my wife home. She came out on the balconey and says, "that sounds cool and powerful, it doesn't sound like a VW anymore".

Now that's one of the reasons I'm doing the six conversion. The sound.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jul 17 2011, 10:02 AM

Those don't come with rain hats, and they don't come with the breather kit. Trust me, you want (and need) both.

The Cap'n

Posted by: moparrob Jul 17 2011, 02:27 PM

Sorry for the hijack, but where do the other ends of the breathers go to from the rain hats? For some reason I thought the only breather was from the crankcase to the oil filler. I this used instead of the stock setup?

Posted by: 9146986 Jul 18 2011, 08:40 AM

No there's a spigot on the oil tank for the intake breather.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jul 18 2011, 08:46 AM

Case to tank, filler neck to the air filter. Both are huge.

The Cap'n

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 18 2011, 11:00 AM

I drove the car! I live on a cul-de-sac and I took it up the street and back. I had to adjust the clutch, then I took it for a longer ride around the block. That's all I'm willing to do with no Tach and no air cleaners. I'm gonaa take the Capn's advice as usual and get the PMO with rain hats.The clutch is still too tight and the alternator belt is too loose. The six engine is much smoother than the 2.0 liter four I had. It also revs much quicker. The cabin noise is louder because the six makes so much more noise. It's a good noise, like a Japanese motorcyle, cams, cam chains, intake and of course exhaust. I'll have to put a layer of fatmat on the firewall behind the seats.
I'm off to DC this week, and Texas the week after so I put the car away. I hope to have the car on the street by my birthday, August 19th.
Bee Jay

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 18 2011, 11:22 AM

WooHoo, congrats! I remember the first time I drove my six conversion -- big smiles -- and you did far more of the work yourself which must make it even more rewarding.

Posted by: JmuRiz Jul 18 2011, 11:55 AM

Congrats on the progress. If you get bored while in DC, feel free to PM me. I'm off this week doing stuff around my house (trying to get some stuff done before I get waist deep in car projects)

Posted by: patssle Jul 18 2011, 04:21 PM

Is there a safety reason to have the breather kit - or is it just because of the legalities?

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 24 2011, 10:21 PM

My car just burned down. The firemen just left. More details later.
Bee Jay

Posted by: moparrob Jul 24 2011, 10:26 PM

Please tell me this is a poor attempt at macabre humor. Dude, what's going on?

Posted by: 396 Jul 24 2011, 10:47 PM

Posted by: RiqueMar Jul 24 2011, 11:35 PM

No! No no no!

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 25 2011, 12:16 AM

The car burned down today. I really, really bummed right now. The firemen just left. Great guys, love cars. We figured out what happened and I'm feeling pretty stupid on top of being bummed. I worked all weekend installing the K&N Water shield air cleaners and vapor lines that Wayne had in stock and shipped to me while I was in DC last week. I also got the carbs synched. Sylvia helped me bleed the brakes earlier today too. We went to visited a friend at the hospital. When I got home I decided to take the car for a short 1 mile spin. I'm going to LA and Texas next week and I just wanted to drive it. After the drive, I pulled it into my Costco Fabric garage. I left the car running and went to inspect under the engine cover. I noticed a taillight out and walked away from a running car to check on my light bulb inventory. Dumb ass idea. I heard a very loud poof, ran back to the car and the car was on fire. Mostly under the car and a little in the engine compartment. I emptied the garage extinguisher and it was still on fire. I reached into the car and turned the key off thinking the fuel pump was feeding the fire. I grabbed ad emptied the Corvette extinguisher and there was still fire. I pushed the car out of the Costco garage and went at it with the water hose. My neighbors were there by then and helped and we got the fire out and moved the Harley away to safety. With the key off and the fire out, the lights came on and the starter started cranking!!!!! I was looking for a way to disconnect the battery quickly, of course the battery quick disconnect is still in the package. The sumbitch started. Me and my neighbors are watching the car run!!!!!. I pulled the coil wire. The fire dept showed up, someone had called 911, and really doused the car. Then they started investigating. I had guessed an electrical short of some kind because I had turned on the lights for the first time. But the pretty much intact engine compartment had a major clue. The fuel line had separated from the fuel filter!. The fuel line nor the fuel filter had burned. I never did address the high fuel pressure and I guess the fuel line wasn't tight enough to prevent it from slipping off. Or maybe actually driving the car, upshifting, downshifting, and rolling down the road made the engine pull on the fuel line. The fuel pump was pumping gas on the headers and it lit. I am one bummed out stupid dumb ass. Everyone is telling me that it was a good thing I wasn't in the car and didn't get hurt and it was a good thing the car wasn't in the garage. Oh well. Another 914 succumbs to a fuel line fire. I restored this car ten years ago and started the six conversion last year. The paint was done, the interior was done. The six conversion was about done. I don't know what I'm gonna do. Have a drink and cry first. I'm just in shock right now. I'll call the insurance tomorrow. I cannot believe the engine cranked and started on its own. It was the most amazing thing I've ever seen. I guess the engine and carbs are ok. At least I got to drive my 914-6 Conversion before it burned down.
Bee Jay

Posted by: sixnotfour Jul 25 2011, 12:32 AM

Wow, very sad sight.


Glad you are OK. (physically)

Posted by: mepstein Jul 25 2011, 06:04 AM

Glad you are ok.

Thank goodness the fire didn't spread to your house!

Posted by: ellisor3 Jul 25 2011, 06:45 AM

That really sucks, I have been following your thread for quite a while. Like most things, It certainly could have been worse. You are fine and you hose is fine. If the engine is still good, a little bondo and some paint and you are back in business. Glad you are ok.

Posted by: Spoke Jul 25 2011, 07:01 AM

This is horrible. Glad to hear at least you and house/garage are ok.

How bad is it?

Posted by: AZ914 Jul 25 2011, 08:02 AM

Damn, sorry to hear this.

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 25 2011, 09:05 AM

Terrible news. I'm glad there were no injuries or collateral damage. Hopefully you will be able to rebuild. Keep us posted.

Posted by: computers4kids Jul 25 2011, 09:26 AM

How sad. We pour our hearts and souls into these cars and then in a moment everything can change. I'm glad your OK.
Mark

Posted by: 9146986 Jul 25 2011, 09:58 AM

This is just sickening! I'm betting I'm not the only one here that's got that "somebody just died" feeling in the pit of my stomach. Soooo sad.

Posted by: moparrob Jul 25 2011, 11:10 AM

Posted by: KELTY360 Jul 25 2011, 11:13 AM

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 25 2011, 12:29 PM

Thanks for all of the kind words of encouragement guys.
I just got off of the phone with USAA. They interviewed me on tape for about ten minutes. They kept asking who has been working on the car. I kept repeating that I do all of the work. They told me that the Costco garage would be covered by my property homeowners insurance. The garage was only $200 and the frame is fine, so maybe I can get a replacement canvas cover.

I took another good look at the car this morning. I could not sleep last night. Maybe it's not so bad. The $3500 paint job is toast. The wire harness is obviously toast. The rear tires are flat. The passenger window is shattered. If I remove the engine/tranny and find someone to repair and paint the body (is this a flair opportunity), I could start again with a fresh body. Too many upgrades to totally give up on this car. No rust. BMW brakes, five lug conversion, sway bars front and rear, springs, turbo tie rods, konis, then of course there are the six conversion parts like the oil tank, the engine mount, Perry's shift rod, and wire harness, and the 3.0 911 engine with weber carbs, that actually restarted after the fire. I feel better today, still sad, but better. We can rebuild it, we have the technology to make it better and faster. I just hope the insurance company is generous.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 25 2011, 12:46 PM

It does not look that bad from the pictures.
Cold comfort, I know. But when I saw that the car had burned I assumed the worst, and this looks very fixable.

Zach

Posted by: 9146986 Jul 25 2011, 12:55 PM

I'm guessing the right wires melted together and that's why the engine started.

Posted by: moparrob Jul 25 2011, 01:01 PM

I'm glad to hear it is not a total loss. Once you get a grip on the extent of the necessary repairs and have a list of Parts needed I suggest you let us collectively know what it is you need help with and I'm sure you will (not surprisingly) find a big outpouring of help to get you through this terrible time. This board has some really terrific members and you certainly have been generous in sharing you build experience with others over the last year.

Did my old spark plug wires survive or are they toast?

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 25 2011, 01:05 PM

I have a targa top with your name on it if yours is beyond repair. The problem you may find with insurance is the car is likely insured/valued as a 914-4 without taking into account all the parts and work you have put into it. Hopefully you have receipts for the bigger stuff and they will work with you. I'm in the same boat myself and this is a big reminder to address that ASAP...

Posted by: markb Jul 25 2011, 01:09 PM

NOOOOOO!


Glad you're OK. Anything you need from my stash is yours for the asking.

Posted by: curt914 Jul 25 2011, 01:45 PM

HI Bee Jay

Ive been following your build thread, then stunned to hear what happened last night. So sorry to hear this.

Im sure you were in total disbeleif especially given all the work you have poured into this.
Plus the car was so nice even before the 6 conversion, especially the paint, killer paint on that car for sure.
I saw it once in person years ago and was really impressed.
Who did the paint? Maybe they can do it again.


Glad to hear that today you are ready to rebuild, I think its doable.
Since Im local, put me to work when you need another pair of hands.

Keep up the good spirits.

BTW, I think I caught a run you did this weekend at the local autocross.

Was that you in the yellow Corvette? I was standing near the car when you cranked that thing up. Awesome sound!

Hang in there Bee Jay.

Regards

Curt

Posted by: Valy Jul 25 2011, 02:13 PM

Very sad to see this but glad you are fine.

Posted by: tomeric914 Jul 25 2011, 02:40 PM

I am sorry for your loss BeeJay. Your quick thinking (and adrenaline) saved it from being a bigger loss.

I also converted mine to a 914/6 and notice on hot days that they garage reeks of gas vapor as the fuel boils out of the carbs. That's even with the insulating spacers and PMO manifolds. My problem though, is that the garage is under the rest of the house so a fire in my case would destroy more than just my car. It's time to park it outside and wait for it to cool down a little.

Posted by: kg6dxn Jul 25 2011, 02:43 PM

I'm going to double check my fuel lines now

Sorry for your loss.

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 25 2011, 03:03 PM

FWIW I store my car in a built-in garage as well. I religiously turn-off the electrical kill and check for leaks. The garage has a monitored heat sensor and several handheld extinguishers but it would still be totally catastrophic if the car went up in flames. It's right under the kids' rooms! Scary, scary stuff to think about!

Posted by: Justinp71 Jul 25 2011, 03:05 PM

Man that sucks ...

So it sounds like you had the fuel injection pump feeding your carbs? I'm not sure if the plastic fuel filters are good for more than 15psi... I guess if anything we can all learn from this. Is there a pressure regulator in the system?

But on the bright side your lucky the magnesium trans didn't catch fire because those melt real fast, turn into a fireball.... must rebuild !!!!

Posted by: patssle Jul 25 2011, 04:37 PM

Holy crap! I've definitely been following your progress closely as I'm doing the same conversion. Of course it sucks, but most importantly, you're ok.

Were you running a pressure regulator, you mentioned high fuel pressure? For any others doing a conversion with carbs (or a carbed /4), maybe lean towards a 3.5 psi fuel pump for safety reasons? That's what I did instead of buying a regulator.

If I was you and you plan on staying there, I would spray the top of the garage ceiling with a flame retardant material. At least it would give some extra time to get out.

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 25 2011, 04:53 PM

Interesting idea - we do intend to move but it will be 2-3+ years depending on finances. Virtually all of the houses in our area have attached garages so that risk factor will be tough to avoid. I am planning a modest garage overhaul after my latest 914 insanity is 'done' so I'll think about some insulating material and/or an automated fire system. I just read that sprinkler systems are now required for new residential construction in much of California...

Posted by: bcheney Jul 25 2011, 07:51 PM

Bee Jay, I'm very sorry to hear this news...Everyone on this board is feeling a small bit of your pain. Keep the faith...you're safe, you have a roof over your head and things can and will get better as long as you don't beat yourself up over this. Accidents happen and cause havoc...it's how we all choose to react that counts. Hang in their brother...

Posted by: Krank Jul 25 2011, 08:13 PM

Sorry to hear about the car. Things may look a little brighter in a few days. Try to keep positive. The same thing happened to my neighbor, engine fire in a Bronco. The truck fired up and launched thru the garage door (parked in gear). The heat from the fire in the engine bay was enough to cause a cylinder to fire and siphon more fuel to keep it running for a bit.

Posted by: Jeff Hail Jul 25 2011, 10:23 PM

If Milt Minter was still alive he would probably tell you the actual true story of "Donkey Bop". Milts not here to tell it so I will ... it has to do with setbacks. Setbacks are inevitable, they teach us things. You are one lucky guy to have not been in that car when it lit up. Move away from the moment and towards where you want to be. We all feel your pain here.

The Story of
"Donkey Bop"

Once upon a time, and not too terribly long ago either, there was a bar in Fresno where a regular customer was a middle-aged Mexican gentleman named Jose.

One day Jose asked the bartender, “Do you know the name of that beautiful song I always hear playing on the juke box here called Donkey Bop?”

“Donkey Bop?” said the bartender. “Never heard of it.”

“I hear it playing all the time when I’m in here," Jose told him. "It is beautiful."

Jose continued to pester the bartender about the tune, but with no results. The bartender said he’d ask the person who serviced the juke box the next time he came in if he had a song called Donkey Bop. No such tune, was the report back.

Finally, one day Jose was in the bar when the song started playing.

“This is it! This is it!” he told the bartender excitedly as he rushing over to the juke box.

When the song ended Jose watched the route the disc took as it was extracted by the mechanical arm and then placed back in its slot. He saw the number where the disc had been placed was E11. He flipped through the menu of songs, and when he did he saw the name of the tune he knew as Donkey Bop was in fact...

“Don’t Give Up!”

Posted by: rfuerst911sc Jul 26 2011, 05:51 AM

This is a disappointing setback but you can get past it. First off do the best you can at assessing the damage as this will be helpful working with the insurance company. Get the most you can out of them that is step one. Then as others have stated make a list of items you will need. Lots of folks on this forum that are willing to help in any way they can. Then methodically go about rebuilding her. Yes it will take time and money but we know that going in with loving old cars. There will be a time where you will look back and see this event made you a stronger man. Good luck and keep us posted. Glad you are OK.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 26 2011, 06:44 AM

I am very sorry for your set back. This is one of every 914 owners worst fears. I hope your insurance company covers the damage and you are able to come out of this whole again or maybe even better off. Best wishes.

Posted by: PanelBilly Jul 26 2011, 11:34 AM

Fire touched my life too, except it was the house and since I kept the car in a shop it didn't get burned. Everything else was gone. I have a handful of photographs that they recovered and they restored a violin that I played when I was little. Maybe that's why I'm so attached to the car.

If the insurance company pays for the car, do you need to turn it over to them?

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 26 2011, 12:09 PM

I'm sure this varies but my understanding is if the car is 'totaled' for insurance purposes, you either turn it over or may have the option to buy it back for essentially scrap value.

From the pics I do not suspect this car will be 'totaled'. The paint and rear trim are toast but the engine and bulk of the car seem intact. Seems like BeeJay's main mission is to get enough to cover a quality repaint.

Posted by: echocanyons Jul 26 2011, 01:59 PM

This is very sad, you have put a ton of work into your car and were just about at the finishing point (it there ever is one).

Sounds like you are going to use this as an opportunity to make it even better.

I hope your tub is salvageable.

Posted by: championgt1 Jul 26 2011, 09:00 PM

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Jul 26 2011, 09:41 PM

Wow, now I am afraid to hook up my battery!!!


Bummer!!

Posted by: rick 918-S Jul 26 2011, 10:38 PM

Man that sux!

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 26 2011, 11:30 PM

Thanks for all of the words of encouragement guys. I'm still bummed but feeling much better. Going from "to hell with this cursed, possesed car, I hope they total it and tow it off" to "I'm going to rebuild it again" did a lot to get me out of my funk. I had dinner with my daughter tonight and I told her about the Porsche. She spent a lot of time in that car when she was little and not rebuilding the car was not an option to her. She thinks I have superpowers when it comes to cars. The USAA appraiser will come by Monday. I've been out of the service ten years now, but they still call me Col. Jones. We'll see how they are Monday. I'll be home in San Antonio eating my Momma's enchiladdas and apple pie for the rest of the week.
I wanted to defiantly proclaim that I finished my six conversion!!!!!! I finished it, I drove it, and it was beautiful.....until disaster struck. So in that spirit, I need to post my originally planned Sunday evening write up on the K&N Rain Hat install.

Wayne Dempsey, owner of Pelican Parts, and a good friend, had the K&N Watershield Air Cleaners in Stock. He got them to me in less than a day. I had no idea so much came in the kit, and I always thought the rain shields were fiberglass or plastic. Nope, these tops are heavy steel. I spent the weekend installing them with the vapor lines. One small problem I had to adress, the passenger side hat is up against the trunk firewall. Other than that, I think they are well worth the money. Before installing the hat lids, I synched the carbs with my special carb synchronizing tool, and I bled the brakes and adjusted the rear rotor clearance. With air cleaners, the car is drivable. I wouldn't want a carb backfire to cause a fire and burn the car up.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Gint Jul 27 2011, 06:14 AM

Wow. Sorry to hear about the fire. Looks very fixable though. Keep the faith.

Posted by: jeeperjohn56 Jul 27 2011, 11:38 AM

BeeJay, Sorry about your car, that sucks that it all happen in less than a few minutes but it can be rebuilt, but if you decide to change your mind and move on to something else, I would like your exhaust system. Only if you change your mind on rebuilding it. John

Posted by: rnellums Jul 27 2011, 11:41 AM

If they do decide that yours is totaled I have some supporting documentation I can send you from when my car got totaled by a guy running a red light two weeks ago. my car was a stockish 2.0L. it was fully restored, but honestly wasn't in better condition than yours. His insurance company paid me just over 16,000 for mine. I can provide documentation if necessary.

One of the things that I think helped was the photo album I made for the appraisor showing pictures from my build over the past 8 years. It shows how much time you have invested beyond just the parts value.

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Jul 27 2011, 12:13 PM

So bummed to read this, so sorry for your losses

I can't believe it started and ran after/during the fire. Your engine is eager to have the 914 rebuilt!

Posted by: Root_Werks Jul 27 2011, 04:17 PM

I'm really sorry to read about this. I'm glad you are okay (didn't get caught in the fire).

Posted by: Bee Jay Jul 27 2011, 06:21 PM

I'll take whatever you are willing to share.
beejay.jones@gmail.com
Thanks
Bee Jay

Posted by: bigkensteele Jul 27 2011, 10:36 PM

Bee Jay, this sucks to no end, as I am another that has followed your thread for inspiration. However, perspective is everything - you didn't lose your wife, child, parent or sibling. You had a set-back on a project that has probably been mostly enjoyable. So you get to do a few things over again, and maybe make some things better.

You have done great work! Call a family meeting in the garage and rally the troops.

Once you figure out what you need, please post, and I will see what I have to donate.

Ken

Posted by: Bee Jay Aug 2 2011, 12:43 AM

I've been away in Texas for a week. It was good to get away from this. It was devastating all over again to see the car again today. Damn, it's really bad. I jacked the car up to look underneath and damn, damn, damn. I'm not sure I can get motivated to do this again. I've been working on this restoration for over ten years. It's such a freakin' mess. The insurance appraiser will be by tomorow. I guess he could provide me with some motivation. We will see how it goes. Thanks to rnellums for the info. I printed it all out and I'm having pictures of the finished car and progress pictures printed too.
Bee Jay

Posted by: AZ914 Aug 2 2011, 07:50 AM

Damn BeeJay, hope the insurance company does you right, that is what its for.
Is there anything structural destroyed? Hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks mostly cosmetic (and of course rubber, wiring tire, etc).

Posted by: 9146986 Aug 2 2011, 12:19 PM

It's a bummer Beej for sure. I get a sick feeling every time I look at the pics, I can only imagine how you feel. It's a good thing you had some time away from the carnage.

Just remember all the good advice you've gotten here though. Nobody died or is laying comatose in the ER since that day.

As much as you poured out your own flesh, blood, tears, and hard earned cash, it is a car and there's very nice cars for sale all the time.

Weigh the options, and take some time my friend before making any solid decisions. Like it or not, you are dealing with a death

Posted by: Bee Jay Aug 3 2011, 08:41 AM

The appraiser showed up last night. One of the first things he asks me is how much did I think the car was worth. I gave him the comps that Robert Nellums sent me and said about $20,000. After looking at the car a few minutes, he said if the car was only worth $20,000, they are definitely going to want to total it. But I could buy it back. I really didn't want a salvage title. He took a ton of pictures. Then he asked me if the lift works and if we can get the car up to see underneath. I said sure. This is what we saw.








I then handed him a stack of pictures of the car in it's finshed state and some in progress pictures. I also gave him few pictures of the new engine and explained what a 914-6 Conversion was. He kept a few of the finished pictures and said that the adjuster will be in touch. That was no fun.

Posted by: mepstein Aug 3 2011, 09:53 AM

I think 20K is a reasonable selling price but way to low as a cost to build price. I would call him up and let him know you put together a comprehensive build sheet and underestimated the price. Then price out ever part to build your car if you had to buy today. Get Wayne, Kap Crusty or another pro to sign off on the list. Prices should all be reasonable replacement cost, not super duper deal cost. I'm willing to bet you have a 35-40K car.

I'm no insurance pro - Just my opinion. Good luck, Mark

Posted by: patssle Aug 3 2011, 01:01 PM

Can one include man hours worked as part of the price? Maybe not for the 10 years of working on it, but at least the /6 conversion?

Posted by: campbellcj Aug 3 2011, 01:54 PM

Not as far as I know, without detailed verifiable time records. You could just imagine the kind of fraud opportunities that would open-up. I'm not an insurance expert by any stretch, however.

Not to cast a dark cloud over this tragedy, but I'm still worried that the insurance company may be covering this car as a stock 914-4 and valuing it accordingly. Unless you have an "agreed value" policy, they are going by the VIN number and available market value data per that VIN.

Posted by: scotty b Aug 3 2011, 02:17 PM

No.

This probably goes without saying but, do NOTHING to that car until you have a chek in hand. Don't even wipe the smoke residue off. Insurance companies for the most part ar fine to deal with but every once in a while you get that one that is a PITA. Leave things as they are until the settlement is reached. IMHO buy the car back and reuse the shell. If you can get it as a slavage title it can be rebuilt, it will just always have a dirty title. You have a good solid car that is a great re-starting point

Posted by: charliew Aug 3 2011, 07:35 PM

Damn the corrosion is taking over fast though. I would hope to get something sprayed on it to stop the corroding as soon as possible. I think you can tell in the photos of the starter where the cranking by itself came from. So sorry but you can do it I'm sure and what a story it will be. It is a nice car, just a little messed up but at least not all bent up or rusted out.

Posted by: Series9 Aug 3 2011, 09:30 PM

I am also very sorry about this.

However, that's enough sadness for this misfortune.


Start taking it apart. Take the opportunity to do the things you could have done better as you were learning. Throw away what can't be saved, catalog what can be saved, make lists of the things you need and let us start donating to put you back on track.

The check from the insurance will be fun to spend on new parts and remember that the build is a major part of the enjoyment of your car.

What do you need? I'll help!



We should have a tear-down party.

Posted by: moparrob Aug 3 2011, 09:50 PM

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 3 2011, 10:07 PM

I agree with the Cap'n on this one. Do not touch it until you have a check in your hands. Cover it and do not alter it in any way. I would then prepare a detailed inventory of the parts you have in the car to the best of your ability.

Good luck and best wishes on a speedy, fair resolution.

Posted by: Series9 Aug 4 2011, 06:16 AM

Yeah, they're right about waiting for the settlement to get started.


But then......

Posted by: Bee Jay Aug 6 2011, 08:45 AM

The dance begins. They are offering me $12K. They are using two 914s for sale in Ohio and Washington as comps. Both are four cyinder cars. One is at a dealer and the other is a private sale. I need to find as many 914-6 Conversion prices and convince them that their offer is way too low. They did give me a positive adjustment for converting the car from a 1.7 to a 2.0. I think they went by the 2.0 badge still on the car. The estimator that came out an looked at the car is not the same person or even company that estimated the value of my car. I'll call them Monday morning and be ready to fax, email, or mail any documentation, pictures, reciepts they will accept. Any 914-6 Conversion cars for sale on line out there? I'd appreciate any links. I guess I could strip the body, repaint it, rewire it, and refurb and replace all fire and smoke damaged parts for $12K if I did all of the labor and paint preps. My wife found a 74 911 targa online for $12. I think she wants a car running and driveable so she can get her husband back. I think I really want to bring this car back. Phoenix, rising from the ashes. I had a long talk with the Cap'n, John Larson. He can be crusty sometimes, but then he can be very compasionate too. He said there is no good reason not to rebuild. He already has a painter in mind and offered to help me rewire the car.
I also really appreciate the encouraging words I get here on this forum. If any of you are ever in Lompoc, I'll buy you a beer or lemonade.
beejay.jones@gmail.com

Thanks
Bee Jay

Posted by: AZ914 Aug 6 2011, 09:30 AM

Ugh.. use the classifieds here and on Pelican. even ebay completed listings...

Posted by: mepstein Aug 6 2011, 11:26 AM

I don't think 12K is enough to cover the cost of your car if they are calling it totaled and you have to buy it back but 12K should be enough to rebuild what you have and make it nice as long as you spend carefully and do the work other than paint.

The people making the offer are just looking at the info provided to them. I think you can get more if you give them more details. Treat them nice and talk to their supervisors if you hit a wall.

Posted by: rnellums Aug 7 2011, 01:47 PM

I don't know if you still use a stOck harness, but I have one out of my parts car that is as perfect as they get. I was saving it for a future build, but I don't need it now. Send me an address if you need it.
-Ross

Posted by: Bee Jay Aug 7 2011, 03:30 PM

If you mean the stock harness that goes from the fuse box back to the relay board and tailights, etc. in the rear of the car, heck yes I need it. I'll gladly pay. Also, I'll be using your data in my dance with the insurance company. I gave it all to the appraiser that came to the house and took pictures, but I don't think it made it into the hands of whoever did the total offer.
Thanks again.
Bee Jay
Bernard E. Jones
3123 Manley Drive
Lompoc, CA. 93436

Posted by: TorqueJunkie Aug 7 2011, 06:25 PM

Just FYI, most insurance companies will take a car at its stock value, but if you have recipients for all your modifications and parts that you installed, they are supposed to add that to the base price. So gather up all your receipts and make sure they have copies to add to your offer.

Posted by: Bee Jay Aug 8 2011, 12:12 PM

The insurance company has agreed to take a look at comps, evidence of California 914-6 Conversions for sale or that sold. So, if anyone has adds or listings of 914-6 Conversions, especially California cars, please send them to
bernard.jones@verizon.net
and
beejay.jones@gmail.com

I made a big stink of them using a 914 for sale sitting on a dealers lot in Ohio to come up with my cars value. I told them that my car was a concourse quality California car with a 3.0 liter 911 engine. They agreed to take another look. The appraisal was done by a commercial appraiser, not USAA.
Bee Jay

Posted by: rnellums Aug 8 2011, 12:18 PM

Good to hear! I hope it comes out well.

Posted by: Bee Jay Aug 17 2011, 11:56 AM

Mount up, we are going to war! USAA refuses to budge off the $10k minus the deductible minus what they could get for the car at the salvage yard, final offer. I'm hiring my own appraiser for $250 and then we split the cost of an umpire for $500. The worst I can do is USAAs low ball offer minus the appraisal fee minus the umpire fee. The best I can do is my appraiser's much higher estimate wins out.
In the mean time, I've replaced my Costco canvas garage and the car is out of the California foggy morning's weather. Everyone should pay the $250 and get an independent appraisal. I have two other vintage cherry collectibles that I drive regularly. That means I commute and drive for pleasure whenever I can. I don't think collector car, only drive to car events, no commuting policies would work for me.

Posted by: rnellums Aug 17 2011, 12:16 PM

I hope this ends up well for you! I'll be shipping a wiring harness out to you soon. Do you need the entire harness or only the rear components?

Posted by: Bee Jay Aug 17 2011, 03:24 PM

Thanks.
I need almost everything from the firewall on back to the rear tailights including the wire harness from the fuse box to the relay box.
But hold off on shipping anything just yet. I may have a lead on a title less roller that is local. It may have wire harness, passenger window, brake lines, etc. Then we can have a sawzall party.
Bee Jay

Posted by: 9146986 Aug 17 2011, 05:27 PM

A nice clean roller with some extras would be the way to go IMHO. Sorry Beej, I have a problem with the remnants of a firery hot melt down. Between the melted glass, seals, wiring, and panel warpage it's OK to lay it your loss to rest, and make it a salvage operation. It's a 914 not a 904, so if you are patient there are still good chassis out there.

Posted by: Bee Jay Aug 18 2011, 09:36 AM

Thanks Perry.
Your with my wife. She wants me to buy a car already restored and ready to drive. She's been shopping 911s and Miata's. I teased her, if your dog or husband came home after getting hit by a car, would you hospitalize and rehab, or put them down and get another one? I think she would put me down and call Denzel Washington. Ha.
The only cars I really would consider as a replacement would be a Lotus Elise or a C5 Z06 Vette. Both out of my price range right now, though I know I could have owned either with the money I've spent and will spend.
I only got to drive the 914-6 around the block. I never got to hammer it. I loved driving my 914 2.0 and I miss it. I wake up every morning feeling differently, but I think I need a project to keep my sanity,...... or insanity. I had the body inspected, the body is straight, no warps.
Bee Jay

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Aug 18 2011, 10:54 AM

USAA did not want to insure mine at all. they pushed me towards one of their affiliates that insured "classics". My 914 is my only car not covered under USAA.

Posted by: 9146986 Aug 18 2011, 12:41 PM

You need my Boxster more than a Miata! I wouldn't push the Denzel thing too much Beej!

Posted by: campbellcj Aug 18 2011, 10:16 PM

BeeJay, how about buying a solid 914-4 with nice paint and swapping all your stuff over? You should be able to recoup some of the purchase cost by selling the -4 engine and any duplicate parts that are still OK on your car. Avoiding a paint job would sure shave a bunch off your rebuilding costs.

Posted by: RobW Aug 18 2011, 10:22 PM

DanT's old car is for sale in Santa maria and has recent paint...... You could sell the 2056 for a decent return...

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Aug 18 2011, 10:24 PM

Be more convincing if you spelled "concours" correctly ...................

The Cap'n

Hi, Bee Jay!

Posted by: Bee Jay Aug 19 2011, 12:31 AM

How does the boxter compare to the 914-6. Those Boxters are really affordable now and would be better than a Miata I guess.
Bee Jay

Posted by: moparrob Aug 19 2011, 12:40 AM

You could always consider a Boxster with a bad engine and upgrade to a Turbo Subie for about 350+ HP.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2047734

Posted by: D1A3 Aug 19 2011, 10:53 AM

Wow, this could happen to anybody. So sorry for hearing this and the pictures just look awful. I really feel for you.

Regarding insurance, there are lots of classic options out there that will allow you to drive and enjoy the car. I have 5000 miles/year and agreed value ($18,000). I pay $200 a year for that.

Maybe the insurance will pay for the "repairs" or are they saying it is a total loss? It looks like it is pretty salvageable.

Good luck!

Posted by: mepstein Aug 19 2011, 11:32 AM

So it will be some more time and more money. What else is new. It's a 914. If this was about being reasonable, well, you wouldn't have a teener. YOU MUST REBUILD!

Posted by: Bee Jay Sep 1 2011, 09:19 PM

Update. I got my car appraised by an appraiser located in Florida. This dude knows cars and really knows Porsches. I got a really nice portfolio with a write up and comps and pictures of my car. He appraised my 914-6 conversion at $27K and explained in depth why it was worth that much. Let's see what USAA does now. My appraiser says that they will sometimes adjust their offer without going to the umpire so he is calling them to see what he can work out for me. If you need your car professionally appraised, I've got your guy. It ain't cheap though. PM me.
Also, I almost bought this roller. I had to pass because I have storage issues. The car has two sets of doors, bumpers and valances. The roller is located in San Louis Obispo, and if your are interested PM me. I was getting it for $350 delivered.
So with no roller, I will need all of that generous help with parts everyone was so nice to offer. I'm anxious to get the insurance settled and start removing this engine and interior. I may even remove the suspension. I will need to build a dolly. Any links to how to do that?
Bee Jay

Posted by: hwgunner Sep 2 2011, 10:04 AM

That looks familiar!

Posted by: Bee Jay Sep 2 2011, 01:01 PM

You know this car?
Bee Jay

Posted by: Scott S Feb 16 2018, 04:03 PM

I was just cleaning out old favorites on my computer and stumbled across this thread (Bee Jay and I were doing our conversions at the same time).

Sorry to bring up past pains, but was curious if anyone still keeps in touch with Bee Jay and knows what he ultimately did with the car.

He had been part of the 914 community for something like 15 years prior to this happening.

If you are out there - hope all is well.

Posted by: JmuRiz Feb 16 2018, 04:22 PM

Blast from the past for sure! So bummed when you see stuff like fires or crashes on cars that got done and were being enjoyed

Posted by: Spoke Feb 16 2018, 05:00 PM

Wow. That car was beautiful. He did such a nice job on the conversion. Very sad.

Posted by: Bee Jay Oct 26 2021, 09:54 PM

Hi guys. It's been ten years and I still haven't started the restoration. I got a new C8 Corvette on the way, so I need the garage space. I don't have the heart to part this car out, so it's for sale. Lots of good parts and a great rust free body. But it has to be disassembled, repainted, and re assembled. The engine hasn't run in ten years either. If interested, email me at:
beejay.jones@gmail.com
Re reading this thread brings lots of laughs and tears, especially missing the Cap'n, John Larson. Rest in Paradise John.
Bee Jay

Posted by: SirAndy Oct 27 2021, 12:53 PM

Welcome back!