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Posted by: jsayre914 Oct 28 2010, 05:46 PM

The schematic. I will fit all of this in my 1973 Porsche
It will not make it go any faster


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Posted by: silver74insocal Oct 28 2010, 07:27 PM

Posted by: Jon Fernandes Oct 28 2010, 07:56 PM

How many amps is that?

Posted by: Black22 Oct 28 2010, 08:13 PM

Just my 2 cents, but I used to be heavy into car audio and was a Sound mixer in Hollywood for 15 years. I was always told that for every 1 subwoofer you put in a car you should have two of every other smaller speaker to have a balanced sound stage. Meaning if you want a 12" sub and 6" mids plus 1" tweeters you should install the 12" with 2 ea of the 6" and 2ea of the 1". That system would sound good if you deleted one of subs and used the 3rd amp for more mid and high range. IMO. It'll sound good the way the schematic shows, it's just overkill on the bass side unless your a mini truck from 1990.
Also I didn't notice any specs on the amps. You don't need a huge amount of power to be loud and clean. I once had a system in my Mustang that used 3 amps that had combined total 135 watts that produced a measured 140dB at a contest. It's not how much you use but how and what you use.

Posted by: rick 918-S Oct 28 2010, 09:40 PM

Are you building a car or a stereo? Never understood need or interest for that.

Posted by: silver74insocal Oct 28 2010, 09:47 PM

i feel bad for you

Posted by: biosurfer1 Oct 28 2010, 09:59 PM

I used to be into car audio big back in the mid 90's, but mostly for SQ...I'm still amazed at how much being into car audio helped me in circuits class while doing my engineering degree.

Posted by: MoveQik Oct 28 2010, 10:22 PM

Of course I had a lowered minitruck.

Posted by: jsayre914 Oct 28 2010, 10:31 PM

Here is the list of what i got:

> CDA 9887 Headunit w/ 4volt preamp output X 3 (im gonna use 2)

> Phoenix PLD1 Line Driver will feed the 2 bass amps

> Phoenix EQ215i Equalizer w/ 15 adjustable frequency controlls for each channel to feed the mid/high amp

> Phoenix XS2500 Amplifier X 2
I will be running one of these for each 12" woofer
Bridged into 1 Channel @ 2 Ohms rated at 300 watts X 1 Continuous output
I also have the LPL44 remote bass knob to control both amps
you need adjustment with the top on vs off

> Phoenix XS 4600 Amplifier
This will be for the component set
Bridged into 2 Channels @ 4 Ohms rated at 150 watts X 2

> Phoenix DD5 Desmazes Delayeator
This little Baby turns on and off each amplifier and processor
it has adjustable delayed fused circuits for the remote and power wires to
eliminate any noises when components are turned on or off. (very cool)

> Phoenix RSDC122 12inch Woofers X 2
Each woofer has dual 2ohm voice coils
Rated at 600w Rms / 1200w Peak

> Phoenix RSD 6.5ds Component Speakers
6.5 inch component w/ tweets
Rated at 120w Peak

The Plan:

Headunit goes into the stock position. PLD1 goes in passenger footwell, hidden under carpet. DD5 goes into center console (havent figured that out yet). EQ goes between seats, hidden under center cushion. LPL44 Remote knob mounts to new center console consisting of (Knob/ Temp/ Volt/ GPS) 3 Amplifiers in rear trunk desigend by Me 6.5 drivers go into fiberglass kicks i will build. Tweets go on the pillars w/ more glass. Woofers go in front trunk w/ another wood/glass enclosure.

All of it completely hidden from view.

Posted by: Black22 Oct 28 2010, 10:52 PM

I'm not sure how the woofers in the trunk will sound. Bass frequencies/sound is about moving air...are you going to port it into the cabin or just move the air around the spare tire. Subs in the rear trunk of a sedan work because the sound transfers through the rear seat padding, although with major attenuation. Your plan sounds pretty solid other than that. Good luck, I'd like to see sics when your done with the install.

Posted by: jsayre914 Oct 28 2010, 11:03 PM

Step 1 was the power upgrade. 2 Kinetik Batteries and a 120amp alternator. I also beefed up the wiring from the alternator thanks to Jeff Bowlsby And I am running a large ground wire direct from the battery to the alternator. The batteries are wired togeather and the components all get a direct line pos/ neg.

The thread is http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=102167&hl=

Step 2 was the sound deadening project. Second skin products including damplifier, overkill, and luxury liner. Very nice products. I also replaced all the rubber for the targa, doors, windows, (thanks Mikey914) and resealed the rear glass. Still a work in progress

That thread is very recent, but http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=110133&hl= is the link anyway

Step 3 was the Headunit install, Easy Peasy.

Step 4 was the collecting all the equipment and painting it to match the car. I hired a hippe to paint everything. He does the best work.

Here is everything taken apart

The mismached pieces

And the Paint Alaska Blue Metallic

Posted by: jsayre914 Oct 28 2010, 11:07 PM

The Front trunk is ported into the cabin with 2 large round holes that used to be for the heater duct. They fire downward tward your feet on both sides under the dash. I am postive this soundstage works because i have been pushing 1 12 inch sub in the trunk for couple of years now.

I do really appreciate the comments, please keep em commin

Posted by: jsayre914 Oct 28 2010, 11:10 PM

I think the amps came out Awesome, considering I have owned some of em since 1997. Not bad at all. Thanks to our very own ScottyB


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Posted by: jsayre914 Oct 28 2010, 11:16 PM

Next I started with the PLD1 footwell project. It has LED lighting and needs a piece of Lexan, but i like the way it looks. (stealthy)

Posted by: jsayre914 Oct 28 2010, 11:22 PM

A little vynal and a quick test fit



Camel carpet thanks to 914 apperance and performance

Posted by: jsayre914 Oct 28 2010, 11:27 PM

I even got new RCA from Stinger Audio (it had to match)


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Posted by: jsayre914 Oct 28 2010, 11:31 PM

Here is a closeup of the DD5, it has led lights that will tell you right away if there is a problem with any circuit. My idea is to hide this baby somehow in the center console, but still be able to see the display. I also want room for the GPS in the console. Its gonna be pretty tight in there.



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Posted by: kg6dxn Oct 28 2010, 11:38 PM

I thought you were kidding with all that equipment. If you bought those Amps in the 90's they are good ones. All the good Amps were built in the 90's. New stuff is junk unles you pay $1500 for a McIntosh. Back then they cared about quality and power supplies. Now it's all about price point and chinese parts.

I prefer single amp systems now. I run a Rockford Power 300 in my 914 and a Kenwood PS-500F in my truck.

Please keep posting pics of your system. I'm very curius about your woofer box set up. Front trunk? Remember for best sound your port needs to be tuned 1 octive above or below the resonance frequency of the sealed box. Rockford Fosgate has a great nomogram for plotting port length and diameter. PM me if you want a copy.

Posted by: 9146986 Oct 28 2010, 11:54 PM

Nice project Joseph! Your install looks very professional. The paint to match stuff is a very cool touch.

Since the early 90's I always wanted to try and make a very un-obtrusive system that had a baffled, tuned sub enclosure with a dual voice coil woofer in place of the foam footwell insert, tuned enclosures for the stock locations (it does give good stereo imaging), and then surface mount tweeters on the dash to reflect off the windshield. The 914 cabin is so small, I'd be curious to know if/where you'd find standing wave.

IMHO balancing all the speakers and getting the cross overs just right is important. Getting efficient, good sounding speakers makes a world of difference. The funny thing is that many times a great sounding speaker can be somewhat inefficient, like Bose for example.

The Morphenspectra stuff looks very nice too.

Posted by: Rod Oct 29 2010, 01:59 AM

Superb! Another 914 sq install

Nice system list, I can see two problems which you should address. You say that the bass will be coming through to the cabin via the two heater pipe holes... These are just above the kicks correct? I have looked at using these many times but came against a couple of hurdles.. When the front trunk is closed, the front section where your sub is (and everyone elses spare tyre) is sealed from the scuttle area where these holes through to the cabin are. So how does the bass get through?

Secondly as you are running the 6.5s in the kicks, you do not want the air from the sub interfering with the rear of the mid cone. I was going to do some builds with some heater hose as a sort of port, running from the hole in the scuttle down past the back of the mid to vent into the cabin next to it. But only if you can get the bass past the firewall ...

My sub is in the footwell, it's only an eight, yet with 600 McIntosh watts it sounds like a 10 or possibly 12!! My ideal bass solution in the 914 wouldn't to move the fuel tank and install a racing cell where the spare wheel sits. Then use the fuel tank space as the volume for the sub, with the sub mounted on the scuttle firing directly into the cabin.. I will do this next, and have an Image dynamics idw15 15 inch sub to do it

Subscribed!!!!

Posted by: JTarver Oct 29 2010, 06:22 AM

Just awesome! I can't wait to see the finished product here. I too enjoy my SQ, and since I'm not a racer, I really get into the stereo logistics.
I too drove a minitruck in the 90's, it was my baby. 5 grand worth of stereo in it, and enough neon to light up Yankee stadium. I miss that truck, and have often toyed with the idea of getting another one, but the wife always brings me back to reality. lol

Joe

Posted by: siverson Oct 29 2010, 10:14 AM

> Never understood need or interest for that...

The "need"?!?! That's pretty funny coming from the guy who stuffed a 928 V8 into his car.

-Steve

Posted by: windforfun Oct 29 2010, 10:26 AM

Very cool. BTW, the sub(s) needs to 180 degrees out of phase with the other speakers.

Posted by: BigDBass Oct 29 2010, 10:35 AM

Posted by: McMark Oct 29 2010, 12:21 PM

Cool! I didn't know that. Is this a general technique? Tell me more...

Posted by: nsr-jamie Oct 29 2010, 12:28 PM

Very cool, don't worry about the old farts who wonder why you want such a nice sound system, personally my car is so loud it is hard to hear most things, but I still went ahead and bought some Polk Audio 6.5 inch coaxial speakers for my new A and P pods and Kenwood CD player....got to have some tunes while driving to work and sitting in traffic. Your system looks very cool and well done! Cheers!!

Posted by: EdArango Oct 29 2010, 02:52 PM

Damm kids and your loud music. You need to go to church!

Posted by: windforfun Oct 29 2010, 04:14 PM

What was that again?

Posted by: windforfun Oct 29 2010, 04:20 PM

Reverse the polarity of the wires going to the sub(s). This sounded so much better in one of my old systems. Give it a try & see (hear) how it sounds.

Posted by: kg6dxn Oct 29 2010, 07:08 PM

This information is not exactly correct.

bass phase polarity only needs to be 180 degrees out if your system design creates Negative Wave Propagation. NWP is caused when the audio sine wave from two opposing speakers meet at the lowest point of the wave. This causes a dip in sound pressure level. Frequency and physical distance also play a big part in NWP. Many newer electronic crossovers have a switch to place the output out of phase. You should always experiment with woofer phasing for best sound. Not simply place it out of phase.

The same audio sine wave can also create Positive Wave Propagation. This is the opposite of NWP and usually occurs when door speakers face eachother. PWP effects Mid Bass frequencies most often in a vehicle. It can make the music sound muddy in the Mid Bass region. An easy fix for this is the fabricate a half round wedge to be placed under the speaker so the two don't face directly opposing.

Posted by: MoveQik Oct 29 2010, 08:51 PM

Damn, I just happened to realize that. Seriously Rick, you got no legs to stand on here!

Posted by: kg6dxn Oct 30 2010, 10:17 AM

For those interested. Here is a woofer box Port Nomogram. This will help you figure the diameter and length of your tuned port. Use the largest practical diameter for best results. Small ports can make wind noise from air movement. PM me if you want a pdf.

Posted by: RJMII Oct 30 2010, 03:47 PM

basic rule of thumb that I went by for building sub enclosures was to aim for having ports roughly 1/3 the diameter of the sub they were getting matched with. Wasn't always the case, but it made for a great starting point.


Joe, great thread; I've been waiting for this one. The amps look great!

Posted by: rick 918-S Oct 30 2010, 04:59 PM

In my limited knowledge of building stuff I see this as apples and oranges. I guess if I installed a 928 V8 in my stereo it would make as much sense as installing 250 lbs of electronics, duel batteries and three miles of wire in my sports car. Well I guess unless I had it parked in my livingroom. Anything that doesn't make it go faster or turn sharper should be left on the garage floor. But that's just me.

I guess the stereo is cool if it was in a tow vehicle but like I said, I never understood the need to do that.

Posted by: windforfun Oct 30 2010, 05:38 PM

It's too bad cars this old didn't come with nice sound systems like today's cars. IMO, a system such as this, if done cleanly without damage to the car, is a work of art.

Posted by: Kansas 914 Oct 31 2010, 03:16 AM

I LOVE music - one of my businesses reps Denon/Boston Acoustics. That being said there is no "stereo" sweeter to my ears than Dual Webers at WOT (wide open throttle). In my current 914's no sound equipment that wasn't factory and that is useless really.

Joe - I think your project is VERY cool and would love to hear the system one day. As a matter of fact I have saved the schematic as a guide for 914 Project #3 (still a secret project).

The great thing about 914's and 914World is few cars and car clubs are as diverse as we are. There are purists (CW's) here, guys putting Subaru engines in and everything in between - and we all get along. Hell - I even heard some guy put a 928 engine in a 914!!! What's next a Boxster engine with Tiptronic transmission! Hmmm...

914World ROCKS!

Posted by: rick 918-S Oct 31 2010, 11:33 AM

See, Now secret project #3 is a perfect fit for a stereo of this nature. I'm not a total neanderthal when it comes to sound in cars. Sometimes it makes perfect sense.

Posted by: pktzygt Oct 31 2010, 07:27 PM

Haha, my buddy and I were reading your thread on the Phoenix forum the other day. He know alot more about older systems, tube amp type of stuff than I do, but he was very impressed.

Posted by: jsayre914 Oct 31 2010, 08:17 PM

Its a small world

i love that place.

Posted by: jsayre914 Dec 2 2010, 03:48 PM

I got my cables today

I will be finishing "The Big 3"

0guage wiring from multiple batteries to the distro block, then 4guage to the amps. I will be fusing every lead right at each battery. The ground wiring will also be 0guage from the battery to the chasis, to the alternator. I also bought extra wire to run 0guage positive and negative to the starter

There is a longer run of 4guage that I will pull to the front to feed the head unit and the DD5 wich will run to each component.

This should cure any dimming at high volume


I will update with install pics

I had no idea just how big these cables really were, everything looks smaller on the computer, but DAMN

Posted by: jsayre914 Dec 2 2010, 04:19 PM

I already upgraded the alternator, I should add the pics to this thread.

Old 55amp stocker



New 75 amp rewound to 120amp max



tossed out the old harness, notice the new harness that Jeff Bowlsby made, its a custom harness with a double run of 8guage wiring

Posted by: monkeyboy Dec 2 2010, 04:23 PM

Very nice. I am still debating what I will do with mine when the interior is done.

I love my Image Dynamics horns in my truck. May be putting a pair in the 914 too.

Posted by: jsayre914 Jan 4 2011, 09:55 PM

Worked on the stereo today. I mounted the DD5 into the center console. I want everything to remain hidden as much as possible, but I also need to see the window on this unit. This is the result...

Posted by: jsayre914 Jan 4 2011, 09:58 PM

then the window...

Posted by: jsayre914 Jan 4 2011, 10:00 PM

I like it


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Posted by: scotty b Jan 4 2011, 10:04 PM

Nice job hippie Can't wait to hear it

Posted by: jsayre914 Jan 4 2011, 10:04 PM

Then the cradle for the EQ.

I had the center cushion recoverd by a local shop, made a custom tray to bolt to the chasis. This is the perfect location for an EQ and it was a perfect fit.

Posted by: jsayre914 Jan 4 2011, 10:07 PM

The fitting...






Damn Scotty, these components sure look purdy

Posted by: jsayre914 Jan 4 2011, 10:10 PM

Then for protection I added a thin plexi, but added some rope neon cause its goona look bad ass at night

Posted by: jsayre914 Jan 4 2011, 10:12 PM

invisable baby


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Posted by: RJMII Jan 4 2011, 10:13 PM

That really is a nice fit, wow! It looks great, Joe. Keep up the good work!

Posted by: Rod Jan 5 2011, 02:13 AM

Great build!!

Loving it so far :love:

Posted by: jsayre914 Jan 12 2011, 05:56 PM

Got the Console wired last night. OMG was that a lot of wires. I ran all cables as far as the engine bay, then I got really tired. Way too much splicing and crimping and squeezing when the temp in my garage is 20 degrees. But I am ready to work on the rear trunk and engine bay next

sorry about pic quality, As you can see... you cannot see anything







p.s. Zach, there is absolutly NO car audio stores in York PA

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 13 2011, 10:24 AM

for that nice 125amp alt you should use the correct pulley with the built in fan so it draws the cooling air our of it. They were on 75-79 Westy buses.

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 13 2011, 12:00 PM

Ha! I was wondering if you found any the other day.
My recollection of Tweeter was that they sold the same crap as Best Buy, but charged a ton more for it anyway. Probably better off that they closed.

Zach

Posted by: jsayre914 Jan 13 2011, 12:42 PM

the fan did not clear the sheet metal, i could have modified the metal, another member here did it, but i have been running this alternator since i installed it with no problems (knock on wood) I spoke to other members during my install who did the same thing, just swapped pully's and they said no problem.

are you thinking i might have a longterm problem, i really am not wanting to chop up my engine tin. I did install a new gasket on the front of the alt, and a new boot on the back


Zach,
If you are looking for a job and you want to be close to home...

Open a car audio store in York!!
I will be your first customer

Posted by: flipb Jan 13 2011, 01:04 PM

Joe,

I'm not the hardcore audiophile, but that is gonna be one BAD-ASS-TASTIC 914.

Posted by: jsayre914 Feb 15 2011, 11:45 PM

Got some work done on the stereo today, all the wiring is finished under the hood using 0guage cables. They definately added some weight to this car, but i am going for the luxury daily driver.

Posted by: jsayre914 Feb 15 2011, 11:54 PM

Then I started on the rear trunk. I made a cabinet to fit all three amplifiers and coverd it with a combination of carpet and vynal. Came out O.K.

I also drilled 2 holes for the cables to pass through from the engine bay

Posted by: jsayre914 Feb 15 2011, 11:58 PM

The top of the cabinet is carpeted. With the familiar logo

Posted by: jsayre914 Feb 16 2011, 12:02 AM

Then the vinal, and the rats nest of wires needs sorting

Posted by: jsayre914 Feb 16 2011, 12:04 AM

A lot of Zipties

Posted by: jsayre914 Feb 16 2011, 12:07 AM

And then I added some carpeting to the trunk.....

Tadaaaa

Posted by: Valy Feb 16 2011, 02:21 AM

You do realize that the rear trunk gets hot from the muffler and the engine.
Make sure you have plenty of ventilation there before you fry the amps.
I would say it's not too late to move them to the front trunk.

Posted by: Rod Feb 16 2011, 06:12 AM

I have big amps in my rear trunk too and they are fine temperature wise. If it does get too hot, just put a layer of reflective deadener on the underside of the trunk. Amps like those pgs and my mcintosh work better when warm anyway....

Loving the install (as you know) very very tidy having no cables on show!!!

Posted by: jsayre914 Mar 29 2011, 08:15 PM

Figured I would post the front trunk pics. I put the 2 rsdc122 in a box that fit every angle of the front trunk. If you notice i even had to notch the corners in the front to fit between the headlamp buckets. This box is designed in 4D lol I think it came out great, and it fits like a glove. With each 12 running on its own XS2500 and the whole soundstage in the front, It sounds freakin awesome.

Posted by: jsayre914 Mar 29 2011, 08:19 PM

Stealth Baby!


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Posted by: jsayre914 Mar 29 2011, 08:22 PM

I have not yet mounted the tweets, but the rsdc 6.5's sure look sexy in Morphs kick panels.


p.s. Zach, if you thought my old stereo was loud.....


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Posted by: silver74insocal Mar 29 2011, 11:20 PM

if it sounds half as good as it looks, well shiot. good work dude, did you have to install spacers to bring the magnets away from the heater tubes (talkin bout kick panels) and did you have to insulate behind em?

Posted by: scotty b Mar 30 2011, 05:41 AM

phase 1 complete, now onto phase 2


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Posted by: jsayre914 Mar 30 2011, 10:17 AM

I removed the heat from this car. I used a rubber cap from the depot and a tiny amount of sound deading on each side


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Posted by: jsayre914 Mar 30 2011, 10:26 AM

Posted by: flipb Mar 30 2011, 07:48 PM

Isn't this your daily driver? Year-round?

Posted by: Dr Evil Mar 30 2011, 08:52 PM

That will help with rust issues

The bass will likely shake your car in half

Posted by: RobW Mar 31 2011, 07:31 AM

I believe you have now created the largest boom box EVER!

And it is TOTALLY AWESOME!

Dare I ask what type of music you plan to broadcast to the 'hood?

Posted by: scotty b Mar 31 2011, 08:42 AM

Greatful Dead, Phish, Allman Bros.,Blind Melon, String cheese Incident. Typical hood rat tunes

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Oct 16 2011, 12:12 PM

You never showed us your tweets???

Where did you put them?