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Posted by: bcheney Nov 7 2010, 04:23 PM

I went to the Winter Park, Florida Concours De Elegance today and saw one of the coolest Porsche cars I have ever seen. It was a 356 "Special" built by Emory Motorsports. It has a 4 cylinder, 911 based motor. Dean Polopolus. Owner of APE, Inc. has engineered a powerful high performance piece of machinery by developing the Polo 4 cylinder 911. The Crank case has been casted and machined and is now in various cars all over the world. Glad I went to this event today....Have you guys ever seen or heard of this motor?




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Posted by: bcheney Nov 7 2010, 04:31 PM

Here is a photo of the car owned by Mr. Kranz of Oregon and Daytona Beach.




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Posted by: bcheney Nov 7 2010, 04:37 PM

Mr. Kranz told me the motor makes 160 bhp and has plenty of torque to make the car a blast to drive. The evolution of the motor saw it begin as a project where the middle two cylinders of a 911 motor were cut out. The case was then welded up and the rest is history. Now, new cases have been manufactured so there is no need for core 911 motors. Amazing what some creativity... and I bet a bunch of money can do to feed our insatiable urges for cars and machinery!

Posted by: bcheney Nov 7 2010, 04:42 PM

Ok I'll stop after one last picture of the nose...




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Posted by: jsayre914 Nov 7 2010, 04:49 PM

Sure is pretty

Didnt see the price anywhere, but they sell a kit for the do-it-yourselfer

http://www.polomotor.com/index.html

Very cool

Posted by: scotty b Nov 7 2010, 05:02 PM

He's been doing this for a couple of years ( 5+) now. There was a writeup in Excellence some time agou about it. Cool idea but VERY expensive

Posted by: mepstein Nov 7 2010, 05:07 PM

I looked this up a year ago and IIRC prices started at 28K. I might of remembered wrong but I do know it wasn't cheap.

Posted by: carr914 Nov 7 2010, 05:09 PM

, That's where I read about it - I've never seen one in person

Posted by: JmuRiz Nov 7 2010, 05:09 PM

Local 356 guy has one, missed the 356 show this year so I haven't seen it in person yet. I think he's done an interview/photo shoot for Excellence, so I'd guess it'll be in a 2011 issue.

Posted by: campbellcj Nov 7 2010, 05:10 PM

Very cool. I don't know if it was the same guy, but I have seen these engines at Dunkels meets years ago and this year at the Monterey Historics.

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 7 2010, 05:20 PM

The original concept was that of Chuck Beck.. He drew the first design on a napkin at a bar and then built one..

Dean has done a lot to develop that engine into a thoroughbred, they are worth the price that he charges for them.

Posted by: URY914 Nov 7 2010, 05:30 PM

I saw that car about 4 years ago at a PCA event in Tampa. I think the owner lives in Ocala. It make a cool sound.

Posted by: carr914 Nov 7 2010, 05:31 PM

Chuck Beck is a Hoot. I think most of the stuff he has done have been designed on Bar napkins. The difference between him and most other dreamers is he actually creates what he dreams up. I always love talking to him.

Posted by: Socalandy Nov 7 2010, 06:48 PM

Ahhhh, A 4 cyl. motor that requires an oil tank $$$$

Looks cool, want to hear it!!!

Posted by: bcheney Nov 7 2010, 08:23 PM

Jake,

I didnt ask him how much $$ he had to put into the motor. What do you know about the pricing? As with any motor I'm sure there are many variations of displacement and HP. I am just curious to know what the starting point might be and I'm sure others wouuld love to know as well. Thanks for chiming in.

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 7 2010, 08:34 PM

Starts around 20 grand last I heard.

Posted by: rdauenhauer Nov 8 2010, 05:27 PM

I dont get it? What heads are used?

Posted by: scotty b Nov 8 2010, 06:04 PM

911

It's a 911 block that is cut down to a four cylinder, (center 2 are removed ) crank is cut and rewelded ( IIRC ) cams are special made, 911 heads, 911 chain setup etc, and 4 banger carbs. Something Porsche SHOULD have done in the 356 and 914 IMO

Posted by: mepstein Nov 8 2010, 08:08 PM

I've worked on many automobiles over the years and after service in the army where was stationed in Germany I became fascinated with the V.W.'s and the motors that pushed them around. I had worked on many Volkswagens before being drafted.


I opened a repair shop that was exclusively Porsche in the mid 1970's and after I sold that shop I turn my attention to building a 4 cylinder air cooled 911 motor. It is total fascination!

This first motor was a rube Goldgerg. It had many official Porsche parts but it was built from a sectioned six cylinder 911 case. It had been welded through the middle and the crankshaft had been shortened by two to run in the new configured case. It ran and still runs beautifully. It sounds like a cam ed Chevrolet motor at idle and I sound like a dying swan in agony at 8,000 rpm's.

Everyone loved it but it was not a qualified professional effort so it was on the the next faze.

I made blue prints of motor and had scaled number put the the prints. The prints were taken to a pattern maker and a casting box was made.

Blue prints of a 4 cylinder horizontally opposed motor was made. The print were taken to a billet crankshaft maker and billet cranks were made.

Cam shaft were machined and ground.

With these very nice pieces a 4 cylinder 911 type air cooled motor is made

I have a 4 cylinder 911 case that has been cast and I have the other parts, Billet Crankshaft, camshafts and oil pump drive that are needed to complete the 4 cylinder 911 type motor.

Dean Polopolus.
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Scott - It's the next GROUP BUY!

Posted by: JmuRiz Nov 8 2010, 08:14 PM

If I had all the money I wish I had, one of those would be in my 356...but I dont't
But hey, they are WAY less $ than a 4-cam carrera motor.

Posted by: Derek Seymour Nov 8 2010, 08:18 PM

I have wanted one for a 912 for years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: URY914 Nov 8 2010, 08:25 PM

If I had all the money I'd take two -6's and make a -12. Go big or go home.

Posted by: scotty b Nov 8 2010, 09:14 PM

One of my customers has a 4 cam speedster. Dean's motor is nice, but that 4 cam is a work of art. Amazing engine.... I think he had around 25,000.00 just in the rebuild of the engine 3 years ago.......The polopolous motor make a lot more power though

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 8 2010, 09:46 PM

I've had quite a bit of exposure to the Carrera engine... Driving a 4 cam speedster lightweight was nice, but it wasn't impressive for the 416K it cost. That engine cost 125K to build in 2003.

I'll post pics tomorrow.

I'd take a 2270 TIV anyday over it, the Carrera STARTS making power at 5K and thats no fun with the Le Mans gearing that was in the lightweight.

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Nov 9 2010, 08:10 AM

I'll be "That Guy."

Aside from the fact that it looks like a baby 6, whats the point? Just to say that you have something more or less unique? I just don't get spending 2X as much as building a six to make it into a four. Where is the benefit?

Zach

Posted by: nein14 Nov 9 2010, 08:31 AM

I have lusted oveer this motor sicne I had seen the article in Excellence and contacted Dean and got a info package on his motor.

For me a turbo charged version of the motor in a my current 914 GT turbo would be the ultimate 6 conversion with weight savings

Posted by: mepstein Nov 9 2010, 09:13 AM

It fits in a 356.

Posted by: JmuRiz Nov 9 2010, 09:59 AM

I'd never put one in a 914 or 912, since a 6 fits so easily...a 6 in a 356 takes a lot of work and setup to make it not handle like a boat.

2270 would be the smart money, but hey, we're talking about fantasy money here

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 9 2010, 10:37 AM

But not a TIV... In fact in conversion form the TIV is the same weight as a fully dressed 356 engine...

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Nov 9 2010, 11:08 AM

And there is the point.
10K will get you a heck of a nice T4.
10K will get you a great Subaru conversion with enough power to kill the transmission - with near zero added weight.
15K will get you a totally bitch'n T4.

No matter what engine you put in it, its a conversion car with a lowered resale.

While the 4 engine here is undoubtably cool, I don't know that this engine could do anything that the T4 or Scoob could not do at 1/2 or 3/4 the price - and down the line it will be very hard to find parts for if it needs them.

Then again, I may be looking at it from the point of view of a guy with insufficient bankroll to appreciate such things. ?

Zach

Posted by: nein14 Nov 9 2010, 12:02 PM

This absolutely about the uniqueness and cool factor and best of all its all porsche

Posted by: bandjoey Nov 9 2010, 12:28 PM

"This absolutely about the uniqueness and cool factor and best of all its all porsche"

On any of the above motors....It's Only Money we're talking about. In these areas, who gives a flip about resale? (Naturally, I'm speaking for the rich, like Doctors and such ) For the rest of us, if we could get one, we would.

What a great idea and cool 356!

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 9 2010, 12:41 PM

The beauty of the TIV in that 356 is the 100% bolt in affair that coupled it together..

No body mods, no suspensions mods and no transaxle mods were necessary. The OE engine could be replaced in less than two evenings.

Posted by: JmuRiz Nov 9 2010, 12:57 PM

Good point.

Maybe I'll tell that to a local guy I may sell my 2.0 to for his beetle :-)

Posted by: mepstein Nov 9 2010, 02:49 PM

Eye candy

Posted by: ME733 Nov 9 2010, 03:09 PM

....Included in the "cool factor" are a few points not mentioned.., All of the inherent design advantages such as,..It,s an overhead cam engine, stock with dual valve springs,and large valves,with a "hemi" combustion chamber, valves are opposed ,twin plug would be no problem, more main bearings,set-up for dry sump as oem, Higher sustained RPM,s with more reliability,plentful parts..chains,seals, bearings,piston and cylinders,etc., and all the trick parts, and racing knowledge of the 911 engine would apply....all in all a very great idea. Naturally as a deritave of the 911 engine it costs more than a 914-411 VW engine. Naturally.

Posted by: mepstein Nov 9 2010, 05:24 PM

I get it.


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Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 9 2010, 07:36 PM

Here is another example from the Dana Point concourse earlier this year...

Thats a DTM equipped, 2270 Raby TIV in stealth mode... It fooled lots of people, even at Dana Point! Attention to detail? Hell Yeah!

Posted by: kg6dxn Nov 9 2010, 07:47 PM

Well, I'll be that "other guy". If I were to spend $28K on an engine it would be the H1 V8. 450hp, 10K red line, weighs 200 lbs... Sorry I'm not even close to being a purest...