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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 5/16 Fuel Hose for 1.7 D-Jet
Posted by: porsche913b_sp Nov 8 2010, 05:10 PM
So I ask the FLAPS parts person for fuel line hose and he gives me this. Then I check online with the SAE J30R7 rating stamped on the hose. It says operating PSI is 50 and burst psi is 250.
http://www.goodyearep.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?id=10526
Is it safe ? Perhaps some members with deeper knowledge can confirm??
If so whats with the warning of dont use on FI cars ? Maybe modern FI cars and not the ones like 39 years ago maybe.
Thank you all !!
Ted
Posted by: underthetire Nov 8 2010, 05:24 PM
Buy the injection hose with the colored liner. Our wonderful fuel here eats anything else up.
Posted by: jk76.914 Nov 8 2010, 05:33 PM
Correct lines are 7mm ID x 3mm wall, with means the OD is 13mm. I've seen this sold as both 7x3 and as 7x13, and it ain't cheap. That 5/16" fuel line is almost 8mm in ID. You may get it to seal with a tight clamp, but it'll too easily leak when it thermal cycles and starts to loose its stretch. Even Goodyear says it isn't for fuel injection.
I've heard of some people using BMW 7.5mm lines, but I'd stick with the right stuff. Too many 914's have burned up because of engine fires, and even the factory did a recall to replace the original cloth-braided 7x12 lines with these.
I also wouldn't go with 50 psi working pressure. That doesn't even give you a 2x safety margin....
While you're at it, be sure and get the correct clamps. Standard gear style clamps can cut through the outer skin of the hose, and lead to leaks later, or worse.
Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 8 2010, 06:06 PM
Correct lines are 7mm ID x 3mm wall, with means the OD is 13mm. I've seen this sold as both 7x3 and as 7x13, and it ain't cheap. That 5/16" fuel line is almost 8mm in ID.
Have you ever actually measured the od of the tubes that the fuel hose fits onto?
Modern 7.9mm id hose is plenty tight on all the fittings you say need 7mm hose for a proper fit. It will never leak if the correct clamps are used.
However, if it isn't rated for FI don't use it for FI.
Posted by: jk76.914 Nov 8 2010, 06:27 PM
Have you ever actually measured the od of the tubes that the fuel hose fits onto?
Yes. It's a tight fit.
Posted by: porsche913b_sp Nov 8 2010, 07:17 PM
Hmm, thanks for the good advice.
Posted by: realred914 Nov 8 2010, 07:38 PM
5/16 inch is a great fit, wont fail with clamps. the 30R9 NOT the 30R7 is to be used, the 3R9 is lined with a flouropolymer (Teflon like) inner hose that resists the new gasolines (oxygenated fuel) use of the older 30R7 hose is NOT recommended with todays fuels. as the hose degrades the 50 psi rating degrades. Orignal style German hose is NOT lined and is NOT recommended anymore becuase of the changes in fuel mixture.
look for SAE 30R9 rating stamped on your hoses, if not there, dont use it.
Posted by: Rotary'14 Nov 8 2010, 07:53 PM
5/16 inch is a great fit, wont fail with clamps. the 30R9 NOT the 30R7 is to be used, the 3R9 is lined with a flouropolymer (Teflon like) inner hose that resists the new gasolines (oxygenated fuel) use of the older 30R7 hose is NOT recommended with todays fuels. as the hose degrades the 50 psi rating degrades. Orignal style German hose is NOT lined and is NOT recommended anymore becuase of the changes in fuel mixture.
look for SAE 30R9 rating stamped on your hoses, if not there, dont use it.
So we should be using SAE 30R9 (FI fuel hose) for all our fuel line needs, even carbs? This is good info as I didn't know how aggressive new fuel blends have become.
-Robert
Posted by: realred914 Nov 8 2010, 08:07 PM
5/16 inch is a great fit, wont fail with clamps. the 30R9 NOT the 30R7 is to be used, the 3R9 is lined with a flouropolymer (Teflon like) inner hose that resists the new gasolines (oxygenated fuel) use of the older 30R7 hose is NOT recommended with todays fuels. as the hose degrades the 50 psi rating degrades. Orignal style German hose is NOT lined and is NOT recommended anymore becuase of the changes in fuel mixture.
look for SAE 30R9 rating stamped on your hoses, if not there, dont use it.
So we should be using SAE 30R9 (FI fuel hose) for all our fuel line needs, even carbs? This is good info as I didn't know how aggressive new fuel blends have become.
-Robert
YEs, even with carbs i use it, as it should be longer lasting and safer in the long run.
Posted by: porsche913b_sp Dec 11 2010, 08:31 PM
So I am back to fuel line replacement project. So wondering if any had a source for SAE 30R9 (FI fuel hose) ??
Thanks in Advance.
Ted
Posted by: bandjoey Dec 11 2010, 11:17 PM
I don't know the ratings. A year ago I bought the proper metric FI lines from Al Zim (www.allzim.com) and it was expensive with a cap E. Might check their site or call them. They have stuff not on the www. I don't remember seeing any kind of liner.
Is the liner separate and visible to the eye or bonded into the rubber? Tomorrow I'll look to see what number is on that line.
Posted by: patssle Dec 11 2010, 11:29 PM
When you guys say the R7 degrades because of the fuel we use these days, how long does it take roughly - obviously depending on use?
Posted by: underthetire Dec 12 2010, 12:17 AM
Well, the one piece I replaced with the R7 stuff showed cracks 1 year later. I was short 12" on one run, all else was R9 and looks like new. Available at Flaps, it's about twice the money as the old stuff.
Posted by: dangrouche Dec 12 2010, 01:35 AM
R9 rated hose; cut by the foot, cost about $7 per foot, got it at Kragens; it has a blue liner, you can't miss it. I have installed for my Djet. been in place for the last year or so without any problems
Posted by: AvalonFal Dec 12 2010, 11:01 AM
I posted this pic a while back, but here's an example of a PO using the wrong type fuel hose.
Paul
Posted by: realred914 Dec 12 2010, 11:21 AM
I posted this pic a while back, but here's an example of a PO using the wrong type fuel hose.
Paul
yikes!!! never seen it that bad before!!!!
could this hose possibly been exposed to batery acid?
Posted by: 76-914 Dec 12 2010, 12:39 PM
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: jk76.914 Dec 12 2010, 07:53 PM
Does anybody make the elbow hoses to the fuel injectors?
Posted by: type11969 Dec 12 2010, 08:57 PM
Hoses to the fuel injectors are the same hose as elsewhere.
Decent price for SAE 30R9:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Goodyear-Fuel-Injection-Hose-Line-J30R9-1-4-5-16-3-8- _W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a615c99aaQQitemZ250741561770QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTru
ckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Got some on the way . . .
-Chris
Posted by: Cupomeat Dec 12 2010, 09:14 PM
Hoses to the fuel injectors are the same hose as elsewhere.
Decent price for SAE 30R9:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Goodyear-Fuel-Injection-Hose-Line-J30R9-1-4-5-16-3-8- _W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a615c99aaQQitemZ250741561770QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTru
ckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Got some on the way . . .
-Chris
Ok, I can handle the $4.60 a foot, but the shipping charges are illogical!
$2.00 for the first foot (which is ok) but $0.75 for each foot up to 15...?
Reminds me of the old J.C. Whitney charge to ship based on cost, not what the part was.
Posted by: porsche913b_sp Dec 12 2010, 10:36 PM
Does anybody make the elbow hoses to the fuel injectors?
That's a great question, anyone ?
Posted by: tod914 Dec 12 2010, 11:17 PM
Just use a short piece of the R9 line. Next time I need to replace lines, I'll be using the R9. Seen some R7 lines melted from the newer fuels. Wonder how much havic this new fuel will play on the injector seals, etc.
Posted by: AvalonFal Dec 13 2010, 08:53 AM
I posted this pic a while back, but here's an example of a PO using the wrong type fuel hose.
Paul
yikes!!! never seen it that bad before!!!!
could this hose possibly been exposed to batery acid?
Here's another pic. Notice the printing on the hose
"Not for use with unleaded or gasohol fuels."
It was one of the under the fuel tank lines.
Paul
Posted by: jk76.914 Dec 13 2010, 05:36 PM
Unleaded??? How old IS that hose?
Posted by: type11969 Dec 13 2010, 09:02 PM
Just a heads up, but the blue liner has been discontinued for the 30R9 hose:
http://www.goodyearep.com/productsDetail.aspx?id=5144
Even with the .75 per foot, which is silly I agree, the price per foot of that hose beats anything I can find locally.
-Chris
Posted by: 914_teener Feb 3 2011, 10:55 PM
Just a heads up, but the blue liner has been discontinued for the 30R9 hose:
http://www.goodyearep.com/productsDetail.aspx?id=5144
Even with the .75 per foot, which is silly I agree, the price per foot of that hose beats anything I can find locally.
-Chris
Okay...It is true. Goodyear has droped all distribution on this product on the West Coast. I had bought some a while back and no I cannot find it now.
Does anyone know where I can find fuel line for our cars....FI fuel line? This product had a nitrile liner in it...worked great. What other solutions or sources are there?
Thanks folks.
Posted by: porsche913b_sp Feb 3 2011, 11:30 PM
On a tip from my friend pep boys carrys the SAE 30R9 rating FI hose, but they were like $4.xx/foot
Posted by: jsconst Feb 4 2011, 12:27 AM
Does anybody make the elbow hoses to the fuel injectors?
Auto Atlanta and Pelican parts both have the injector elbows, they also have the fuel line and special clamps. Not sure how their price compares.
Posted by: type11969 Feb 4 2011, 06:19 AM
Gooodyear stopped using the liner, but the replacement carries the same rating. Use the replacement.
Posted by: underthetire Feb 4 2011, 10:07 AM
Does anybody make the elbow hoses to the fuel injectors?
Auto Atlanta and Pelican parts both have the injector elbows, they also have the fuel line and special clamps. Not sure how their price compares.
Wrong fuel line. Not good to use for CA fuels.
Posted by: underthetire Feb 4 2011, 10:12 AM
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?catalog=64&partnum=27095&a=FR64-27095-655791
Posted by: 76-914 Feb 4 2011, 10:34 AM
Has anyone w/ FI used the 1/4" SAE 30R9 instead of the 5/16"?
Posted by: underthetire Feb 4 2011, 11:42 AM
Has anyone w/ FI used the 1/4" SAE 30R9 instead of the 5/16"?
You'll never get it on. The 1/4 R9 stuff won't stretch much.
Posted by: 76-914 Feb 4 2011, 02:04 PM
Being the hard headed individual that I am, I wrote Goodyear today and asked them for a sample piece of both. If it fits you must acquit! 
Posted by: elmonte Feb 4 2011, 02:16 PM
Found this on-line. Great price, but you have to buy a roll
http://www.europowerinc.com/cart/index.php?p=product&id=5
Posted by: ELLIOTT Feb 4 2011, 02:45 PM
wonder how many feet in the roll?
Posted by: elmonte Feb 4 2011, 02:57 PM
wonder how many feet in the roll?
25 ft
Posted by: underthetire Feb 4 2011, 03:41 PM
Great price. Might have to pick up a roll next time i'm in Cleveland.
Posted by: Rex-n-effect Feb 4 2011, 04:46 PM
Go to your local VW or Audi dealer and buy part # N020 2811. That is the correct FI hose for these cars. Been using it for 30 years and have never had a problem.
Posted by: nathansnathan Feb 4 2011, 05:18 PM
Go to your local VW or Audi dealer and buy part # N020 2811. That is the correct FI hose for these cars. Been using it for 30 years and have never had a problem.
The problem is the level of ethanol in the gas now, it dries the fuel lines and they will crack in about a year or so if you don't get the SAE 30R9 stuff, like they said, mostly.
Posted by: jim_hoyland Feb 4 2011, 05:43 PM
How many feet does a typical FI car require, include any pieces for the front ? 
I'm hearing that 10 feet is enough......?
Posted by: realred914 Feb 4 2011, 06:26 PM
the 30R9 is still lined with a flouropolymer, some is blue (maybe discontinued) but some is black lined, so it is hard to see (but still detectable) the SAE specification calls out for a liner. all 30R9 will have some color of a liner, black, blue what ever
the 1/4 inch wont fit right, you may get it on, but it may also eventually tear.
the elbows from the factory as far as i know are NOT lined, and will degrade with todays mandated fuels (thanks to the envioro-nut jobs at CARB, be sure to vote out of office any legislator that supports CARB, get informed!)
You can simply use a striaght piece of 30R9, cut the right length and it will work, just cut the length so the radius does not totally pinch down, been doing that for a while, (many years) that will work for you, much better than using the curved hose of inferior quality from a degregation stand point.
some 30R7 hose is now being marketed with a warning "Not for fuel injection" this used to be the stuff to use, but not anymore.
flouropolymers..... better living thru better chemistry!
Posted by: 914_teener Feb 4 2011, 06:41 PM
the 30R9 is still lined with a flouropolymer, some is blue (maybe discontinued) but some is black lined, so it is hard to see (but still detectable) the SAE specification calls out for a liner. all 30R9 will have some color of a liner, black, blue what ever
the 1/4 inch wont fit right, you may get it on, but it may also eventually tear.
the elbows from the factory as far as i know are NOT lined, and will degrade with todays mandated fuels (thanks to the envioro-nut jobs at CARB, be sure to vote out of office any legislator that supports CARB, get informed!)
You can simply use a striaght piece of 30R9, cut the right length and it will work, just cut the length so the radius does not totally pinch down, been doing that for a while, (many years) that will work for you, much better than using the curved hose of inferior quality from a degregation stand point.
some 30R7 hose is now being marketed with a warning "Not for fuel injection" this used to be the stuff to use, but not anymore.
flouropolymers..... better living thru better chemistry!
Yes...California fuels require the "reformulation" it does cause the non 30R9 to degrade. I am redoing all the FI lines in my car and couldn't find the Goodyear manufactured stuff here on the West Coast.
Thanks for everyone for their help....great forum.
Looks like the best source is Gates now which has a SAE tested number on it. I wasn't quite sure if the "Cleveland" sourced hose had the testing designation.
Posted by: 76-914 Feb 4 2011, 06:50 PM
When you say a roll you don't mention which size. Their website says it comes in 3 sizes, the largest of which is 250 ft. As far as bend radius (IIRC) 1/4" is .75in & 5/16 is 1". It's all on the Goodyear website. I may have misquoted. Better check it out.
Posted by: fasthonda Feb 4 2011, 08:29 PM
I found the best deal for goodyear 30R9 @ Greasecar.com
Posted by: SLITS Feb 5 2011, 09:11 AM
Found this on-line. Great price, but you have to buy a roll
http://www.europowerinc.com/cart/index.php?p=product&id=5
Tried to buy a roll ... it's a fake deal with PayPal Sandbox ... seller's email is bunk.
Posted by: jimkelly Feb 5 2011, 10:55 AM
see this ??
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=67843&st=20
jim
Posted by: elmonte Feb 5 2011, 01:58 PM
Found this on-line. Great price, but you have to buy a roll
http://www.europowerinc.com/cart/index.php?p=product&id=5
Tried to buy a roll ... it's a fake deal with PayPal Sandbox ... seller's email is bunk.
Don't know what happened. Phone number is good. Did not try to order but home page looks legit. Maybe it was the link i supplied.
http://www.europowerinc.com/
Posted by: 76-914 Feb 15 2011, 10:35 AM
Just a quick update. I have been in touch w/ the folks at Goodyear re: this material. They have been quite helpfull in answering my questions and have agreed to send me a few samples of 1/4" and 5/16". I'll see how well these 2 sizes fit. The engine which I am rebuilding has a set of NOS injectors. That rubber must be 20+ years old so the elbows will be replaced w/ this new hose. I am hoping that the 1/4" fits and will deliver @WOT. I have saved my correspondence with them and will post in the near future.
Posted by: jim_hoyland Feb 15 2011, 11:04 AM
Has anyone verified that non-30R9 fuel hose actually degraded in their car ? I don't mean original fuel hoses that are 35 years old, but rather more recent replacements...
I checked a couple of hose ends recently ( non 30R9 ) and couldn't see any issues.
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