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Posted by: Randal Nov 20 2010, 10:39 AM

Did 914's and buses have gasoline heaters and if so where were they and how did they work?

Love to see a picture if anyone has one.

Posted by: SLITS Nov 20 2010, 10:40 AM

No, and I don't know

Ersbacher? heaters ..... thought they were early 911.

Posted by: aircooledtechguy Nov 20 2010, 11:54 AM

Eberspacher made the heaters for the VWs. They have since changed their name to http://www.espar.com. Do a Google image search for Eberspacher models : BN2, BN4, BA4 and BA6 and you'll see all the models they used in VWs. They now make models similar to the BN2 & BN4 models Called Airtronic 2 & 4. The website doesn't list it, but they ARE available in gasoline as well; not just diesel.

They are very well designed units (even the early ones in Beetles and buses). They are just like stock HE on your exhaust and work off the same principal.

Basically you have a S/S inner flame chamber where at one end, a small amount of fuel is mixed with incoming combustion air by way of an electric fan and inner vanes. It passes by a glow plug that ignites the mixture causing the s/s chamber to heat-up. There is an outer chamber that encases the inner chamber where a large volume of air is passes by another fan. Add ducting into the car and Viola!! A warm interior that is independent of the engine running and is much warmer than the stock HE ever could be.

Just found a http://www.espar.com/html/videos/vid_airheater.html that explains it better than I can. . .

There is a lot of miss-information out there claiming that these heaters are dangerous and "explode" etc, etc, etc. Those are wives-tales retold by folks who have never owned one or even understand how they work. Eberspacher units have, since the early days, had safety switches, circuits and over temp detectors that cut power to the fuel pump if they detect an over temp condition. They also have pre-run mode for about 20-30 seconds before igniting AND run-on mode of 20-30 seconds after the fuel pump is cut off which purges the flame chamber of fuel vapors so they are safe.

The VW Beetles, Type-3s, Ghias (all w/ BN2) and Things (BN4) all had their gas heaters mounted in the trunk on the left-hand side. Buses had their heaters mounted either in the left side of the engine compartment when using a BN4 (from the 50s - '78) or under the bus when using a BA6 (from '79-on through the air-cooled Vanagon years). In all those cars they were only an option in the U.S. The Type-4 (411/412) was the only car where the gas heater was standard equipment (BA4 model). It had it's heater mounted above the transmission. This hearer was only classified as a heater "booster" since all air coming into the heater first came through the stock HE, but it could run independent of the motor and was a true gas heater.

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 20 2010, 12:09 PM

Yes, they were available. There's a few threads about them in the garage.

Why is this thread in the sandbox?

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 20 2010, 12:13 PM

Webasto made a unit specifically for the 914 ...

Posted by: Drums66 Nov 20 2010, 12:17 PM

.....Corvair too
(& when it stops working....guess what you smell!)

Posted by: scotty b Nov 20 2010, 12:26 PM

and 356 and 911 I am not sure about other models, but I do know first hand that on the Things, the trunk was stamped differently where the heater sat, so you can't just put a heater in a Thing if it didn't come with one.

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 20 2010, 12:37 PM

I guess watching my dad's '67 go up in flames in the middle of a Sears parking lot, on new years eve, with 4 fire trucks and police and a large crowd gathering was just a figment of my childhood imagination.

The "old wife's tale" comes from the late sixties when VW tried to place the gas heater above the tranny. Many rusted out, spewed gas and went up in flames. VW abandoned placing them there shortly after that do to liability issues and put them back in the trunk.

It was fun watch everyone hit the deck when the tires blew.

Posted by: McMark Nov 20 2010, 12:51 PM

They were available. Never seen anyone successfully install one in a 914. Like any flammable based system, making sure everything is in good working order is a big safety concern, but a well maintained system is safe.

Posted by: realred914 Nov 20 2010, 02:36 PM

one kept me warm all thru Alaska. nice heaters, really hot ticket to get.

Posted by: aircooledtechguy Nov 20 2010, 03:18 PM

I will defer to your experience with your dad's car going up in flames; you were there, I wasn't.

However, in my experience with VWs, 99% of all fires are due to fuel hoses cracking and spewing raw fuel which causes a fire, NOT a malfunction w/in the Eberspacher heater itself. There's a big difference. Like all fuel hoses, if not maintained and changed regularly, you will have a fire. The other 1% came from fuel hose nipples coming loose. I've never seen an Eberspacher heater as the cause. Not saying it has never happened, I just think the heaters get the bad rap for the real cause which is faulty fuel lines.

What I was getting at was what McMark more eloquently stated; when well maintained, they are safe. I can't say that about the aftermarket Stewart Warner heaters though. They do not have the safety features of the Eberspachers and did start a few fires. Personally speaking, I would never use or install a SW heater.

What cars, other than the 411/412, did VW put the heaters above the trans?? In the U.S. they never did, ONLY the 411/412 and buses with the BA6 had them under the cargo floor. . . All the BA4s and BA6s that I have pulled from under the cars have been in pristine condition (once the dust was removed).

Posted by: RJMII Nov 20 2010, 03:21 PM

The ducting fits over the gas tank and under the hood still? I was under the impression that there wasn't room there. (but somehow I know the lightbulb in the fridge shuts off when the door closes)

Posted by: McMark Nov 20 2010, 03:53 PM

Jim, notice the height of the filler neck on the other side. That's how much room you have to play. Also notice that the heater ducting runs through the front bulkhead, not over it.

Posted by: ConeDodger Nov 20 2010, 04:46 PM

Nice to know... Especially if I ever move back to Minnesota!

Posted by: patssle Nov 20 2010, 05:47 PM

Any idea what the new Espar's run in cost? They don't list their prices.

Posted by: bandjoey Nov 20 2010, 05:52 PM

It looks like it's ducted into the air blower box. Hard to see in this picture.
I have a neighbor with a long haul truck. I'm going to quiz him on this next time he's home in a couple of days.

Posted by: bandjoey Nov 20 2010, 05:56 PM

$1149 online price

Posted by: patssle Nov 20 2010, 06:05 PM

Yikes! Though, still cheaper + headers for a /6. And no heat exchanger fitting or poor heat issues,

Posted by: rtalich Nov 20 2010, 06:18 PM

ebay is your friend! Last year I bought a very nice Eberspacher BL1C for $500 on ebay from Germany.

The heat that it delivers it AWESOME!!!!

Posted by: Cheapsnake Nov 20 2010, 07:03 PM

Had a gas heater in a 66 bus, heated fine when it worked. However, it apparently didn't have the preignition "purge" cycle, whereby raw gas fumes are vented before it lit off.

One of my greatest delights came when I started the engine after the heater had run for awhile and shut off. Every now and then it would ignite the raw gas with a blast that sounded like a 30-06 going off in your ear, with a ball of flame to match. Since this was a standalone unit its output was directed right at the passenger's feet.

In this case, it just so happened to be my girlfriend's/wife's feet. It always caught her by surprise and freaked her out, swore she'd never ride in that POS again. At least, that's what I think she said, hard to say since I was laughing too hard to make her words out.

Tom

Posted by: mepstein Nov 20 2010, 07:17 PM

Did you put it in your 914?

Posted by: patssle Nov 20 2010, 07:19 PM

I looked at ebay a while ago, I'm not sure I feel real comfortable buying a 30/40 year old gas heater. Then also mounting such an old device near the gas tank.

Unless I can find some of the newer one's on there.

Posted by: aircooledtechguy Nov 20 2010, 07:41 PM

The type you had under the dash of a bus was the Stewart Warner. As I said, no safety devices on those and could be quite dangerous. Those don't even compare to the German-made Eberspacher. A properly calibrated Eberspacher is like a Swiss watch when it runs.

Posted by: rtalich Nov 20 2010, 07:56 PM

Yes.



Yeah... there's no way I'd use a 30/40 year old GASOLINE heater period!

The one I got is only a few years old. The new/modern ones are VERY awesome. German made

Posted by: mepstein Nov 20 2010, 08:01 PM

Pics, Info? thanks, mark

Posted by: cary Nov 20 2010, 08:08 PM

I had the same feeling ....................

Here's the new company.
http://www.espar.com/documents/product_catalogue.pdf
They use them on big rigs. Looks like theres two dealers here in North Portland.
I'm building a daily driver for here in Portland. If the dual blowers don't cut it. I'm going to go out and chat with them.

Posted by: rtalich Nov 20 2010, 08:17 PM

Here's the installation manual. Contains lots of good info.

Seems as thoough I can't add the attachement... here's a link to it. http://www.eberspacher.com/downloads/technical-documents/airB1LC+D1LC_technical.pdf

Posted by: jk76.914 Nov 20 2010, 09:27 PM

Corvair used a gas heater made by Stewart-Warner. For the first year, 1960, it was the ONLY heater available. Beginning in 1961 either the direct air heater or gasoline heater could be ordered. I think the last year for the gas heater option on the cars was 1962, though it soldiered on for the rest of the truck production (through 1965).

Pic below is from the 1961 shop manual-

Posted by: bmtrnavsky Nov 22 2010, 10:40 AM

Seems like it would be a nice thing to have if you lost the HE for a tuned exhaust. IS there still a good source for these?

Posted by: r_towle Nov 29 2013, 10:11 AM

Bump to top

Posted by: sixnotfour Nov 29 2013, 10:25 AM

Attached image(s)

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 29 2013, 11:00 AM

Thinking of doing one, I'm too old for no heat.
For the modern unit, if you are willing to install a small tank for diesel, truck espar bunk heaters are often cheap on kijiji/craigslist.

Posted by: lonewolfe Nov 29 2013, 11:16 AM

I've been wanting one of these Espars for my 914 for some time. I have never been able to find any good information on how to install one in a 914. They are the ideal solution for those of us that want to run headers. For me, heat is desired. I'd like to build a 2270cc motor but don't wan't to give up my heat and don't want to run heat exchangers on a 2270. I've been thinking a 2056 is about a big as I can go using my SSI heat exchangers. Jake said you can run heat exchangers on a 2270 but you give up quite a bit of power and the motor will run pretty hot. Sounds like a bad idea. I'd love to know if any of you guys have successfully run SSI's anything larger than a 2056. Anyone?

Posted by: lonewolfe Nov 29 2013, 11:18 AM

I've been wanting one of these Espars for my 914 for some time. I have never been able to find any good information on how to install one in a 914. They are the ideal solution for those of us that want to run headers. For me, heat is desired. I'd like to build a 2270cc motor but don't wan't to give up my heat and don't want to run heat exchangers on a 2270. I've been thinking a 2056 is about a big as I can go using my SSI heat exchangers. Jake said you can run heat exchangers on a 2270 but you give up quite a bit of power and the motor will run pretty hot. Sounds like a bad idea. I'd love to know if any of you guys have successfully run SSI's anything larger than a 2056. Anyone?

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 29 2013, 11:35 AM

I run a VW bus with a 2.0 type one (so thats 400cc bigger than stock) with heater boxes with no issues. Also buses tend to run hot, but I'm not having problems. As long as you jet it so your AFR is correct I can't see it running hot, you will give up some power.
My guesstamation is if the engine would have been 160hp you would still have 130-140hp. Not too shabby.
Make the SSI fit header stubs and swap them out with a header in the summer.

Posted by: dr.tim Nov 29 2013, 11:53 AM

Has anyone been successful with an electric heater? Poking around recently, I found this:

http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/usa-made-12-volt-ducted-heater.html

It is probably to much of a load for the original 914 alternator, but for those with late -6 conversions would it be feasible? It seems compact enough to fit behind the fuel tank.

Posted by: lonewolfe Nov 29 2013, 12:21 PM

Hey Mark Henry!

Hey Mark! Thanks for the reply! That's a great suggestion about adapting the SSI's to fit the stub pipes. I have a nice new set of European Racing headers that I had ceramic coated inside and out that have been sitting on the shelf for the last year while I've been trying to decide which direction to go with the engine build. I also have a practically new set of SSI's that have only 200 miles on them. I was thinking that heat was not a big deal but I wasn't thinking of my better half when I came up with that. If I were the only one enjoying the car it would not have heat and would probably require ear plugs for extended driving. LOL!

Posted by: Tilly74 Nov 29 2013, 12:28 PM

They make new ones for tractor trailer sleepers. Do an ebay search for "bunk heater" or click the link below:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=webasto&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.Xbunk+heater&_nkw=bunk+heater&_sacat=0

Posted by: boxsterfan Nov 29 2013, 12:49 PM

Yeah, I have always wanted to figure out if I could out electric heat in. Seems like this unit described here wants 40 AMPS (or a 50 AMP unit is also available) so you are going to need a higher output alternator. Of course, higher output alternator will take away some HP from your rear wheels. Trade-offs.... I think you can get the stock alternator redone to 90 AMPS or possibly a VW Bus alternator can be used...

Posted by: lonewolfe Nov 29 2013, 01:42 PM

This electric heater looks like it might be an option to consider. It would probably be mounted in the engine bay and run into the heater flapper boxes just like we run air from the fan to the stock heater ducting. it could also be mounted in the front trunk which would probably loose less heat than putting it into the back. The price is not bad either! Has anyone tried a heater like this in their 914? I never realized a higher amp alternator caused a power drain on a motor. Is this because of higher resistance to turn the pully?

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 29 2013, 01:59 PM

Electric heaters ....I've said this before....
Could you just send me $50, the result will be about the same as buying a 12v electric heater, but at least I'd be happy.

Electric heaters have been tried since the 60's they have never-ever worked.
Trust a Canadian on this one.

Posted by: Rand Nov 29 2013, 02:03 PM

I went through all this over a Seattle winter or three. No, electric is NOT an option. It's been said. Retry all you want and fail yet again.

An indoor-safe infrared portable propane heater can help. But a good jacket and the right formula of RainX is a better bet.

You abandoned the factory solution for heat and defrost. Some have good reasons, some don't. Maybe you should go back to that. It works.

My old school way is to dress for success..... If that means it is zero degrees outside then why does getting in a car matter? If a little defrost is all you need, then a 12v can help. But you have to get it.

Posted by: r_towle Nov 29 2013, 04:24 PM

Foley has a heater box that fits over one side and provides some heat, not sure how much.
Why couldn't you fabricate a heater box that fits over the European headers.
It's just a box with two holes for the large air hoses to push air in and out.

Might be a wierd jigsaw puzzle, but using two pieces screwed together and capturing some of the header pipes should do the trick, then you can unscrew it to service the headers...
It does not take much to heat up a 914 cabin.

Posted by: zambezi Nov 29 2013, 05:19 PM

Don't need heat much down here in Louisiana but the few days I would I am thinking of adding seat heaters when I redo the seats. I still have the stock heat system and it is all there but I think the seat heaters would be a nice addition and is easy to do if the seats are apart.

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 30 2013, 09:15 AM

Perry K will pimp slap you for that idea

I've been thinking of doing the same on my /6, putting a box affair around the MSDS headers. I would agree with Perry it would be a bad idea as the mild steel tubes could rust out, but then the majority of us will never drive in the snow and salt .

If you were to try this I would for sure invest in this.
http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/pspages/llifecodetectors.php?clickkey=134504

Posted by: Luke M Nov 30 2013, 10:38 AM

My brother came across this product which I believe is the same if not similar as a previous posting. We are thinking to use this as a source to keep the windows from fogging up and use the camp electric seat warmers. My brother plans on storing the car for the winter and this should be sufficient in a chilli fall/spring day. The org heater tubes in the longs are shot so they where removed.

http://dcthermal.com/catalog/sd12-4000-volt-ducted-heater-copy

http://www.camp914.com/products/interior.html

Posted by: speed metal army Nov 30 2013, 11:09 AM

Theres a fella in my town that just bought a 914 with a gas heater in it. Looks like the one in the red car pictured earlier. Actually looks like it might be the car too.

Posted by: Dtjaden Nov 30 2013, 11:22 AM

It seems that it would be possible to use an appropriately sized oil cooler as a heater core similar to a conventional water heater core. While it might be a bit slow to warm up once warm it should be able to provide plenty of heat. No significant electrical drain and no fuel issues.

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 30 2013, 12:09 PM

That has been done as well, it's no where near as efficient as a water heater core, oil is actually not that great at transferring heat. Plus your engine would run way too cold during warm up, so if you were to try this I recommend a bypass thermostat like you would do for a front cooler.

Really you would have to think "outside the box" on this, lets face it, people (some of them quite smart) have been facing this problem for many years.
You can bet anything conventional you can think of has been tried.

Posted by: euro911 Nov 30 2013, 12:12 PM

Seats aren't really that hard to pull apart and back together.

My early European 911 came from the factory with a Webasto gas heater, although I'll probably never use it.

I had one of these 300 watt electric heaters in the camper on my '89 Toyota truck. It worked well enough to take the bite out of the cold when camping. It's still around here somewhere.




I picked up one of these a couple of years ago, also 300 watts. (300 watts requires 25 amps).




It doesn't get too cold in So Cal, unless you're in the mountains in the winter time.


If you need more current for additional electrical devices, one of our members here, Pete (pnewman), sells 105 and 160 amp alternators http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=195244

Posted by: cary Dec 1 2013, 09:45 AM

I had one in The Thing I had as a kid.
Way cool.
All I remember is the cool way it sounded when it came on.

The car I'm rustoring now will be my rest of my working life daily driver.
I've have thoughts of putting one in that car. I would probably go with a new one. Quite a bit better ignitors and safety features on the newer stuff.

Not so much the heat here in PDX. It's moisture when the heavens open up. If you run errands in the rain. Every time you stop and start you get that moisture on the windshield.

Posted by: partwerks Nov 8 2014, 10:41 PM

I wonder if this would be comparable to the Eberspacher BL1C?
http://www.heatso.com/eberspacher-airtronic-d2-12v-2-2kw-heater-kit/

Posted by: lonewolfe Nov 8 2014, 11:51 PM

I plan on getting a gas heater too? I'm building a 2316cc and will be loosing my heat! I think a gas heater will be a little tricky to install but once done it will be sweet. I have a picture of factory installed gas heater I'll post when I get home tonight.

Posted by: partwerks Nov 9 2014, 08:27 AM

Wondering which would be more favorable, gas, or diesel?

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 9 2014, 09:01 AM

I've thought of doing this. Diesel bunk heaters are cheap on craigslist, but you will need to add a small tank for fuel. Built to heat a whole truck bunk I bet they throw more heat than you need.

Posted by: cary Nov 9 2014, 09:53 AM

I think Webasto became Eberspacher. Do some cyber research. They have quite a few models. They're used for heating big rigs when they're shut down for the night.
I also saw Aase Sales had Webasto heaters in their latest magazine ads.

Posted by: euro911 Nov 9 2014, 01:21 PM

Electric

Posted by: lonewolfe Nov 9 2014, 01:47 PM

Have you found an electric heater that actually will heat our cars?

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 9 2014, 03:41 PM

It will heat it perfectly....in southern California

Posted by: euro911 Nov 9 2014, 04:03 PM

Yeah, adequate in So Cal

The main issue with electric is having enough power. The way to calculate how much amperage you need is the wattage divided by voltage. A 300 watt heater takes 25 amps to run. A 600 watt would need 50 amps. A 1000 watt needs 83 amps, so you'll need a bigger alternator than the stock one. That's why I recommended one of Pete Newman's alternators in a post above.

Posted by: partwerks Nov 9 2014, 06:31 PM

Like what section do you look for it under?

Posted by: orangecrate Nov 9 2014, 09:19 PM

I installed an eberspacher diesel heater in a small tugboat wheelhouse years ago. Easily more cubic ft than a 914. It would bake you. I think the trick would be to get the right size diesel tank so that you only had to fill it up when you filled the car. I realize there are a lot of varibles but I'd go for overkill in cold weather.

Posted by: PanelBilly Nov 9 2014, 09:32 PM

Not that it will defrost your windshield, but you can get an electric jacket or vest normally used for motorcycles and help fend off the cold

Posted by: partwerks Nov 9 2014, 09:39 PM

I'm guessing here, but with different sizes, even the small compact one would most likely be plenty, but the size of the main body must be around 12" X 5" X 5"?

If the main body was mounted in the cowl area, then that leaves me to figure out where to dump the exhaust from that point, but was wondering if a person could dump it out on where the tubing for heat used to come up by the speaker grille, and force it out that way? Would probably be better to have the heat source as close to the cab as possible?

If I put it in the front trunk, I can dump the exhaust out the bottom of the front trunk where the radiator ventilates, but then have to find a way to plumb it up to the cowl area, and I don't really want to start cutting holes any more than I have to.

I'm wondering if it was mounted in the engine bay, if I could use the old pipes that the heat exchangers used to plumb the heat to the cab, but then might loose some heat the further it has to travel.

Posted by: lonewolfe Nov 9 2014, 09:42 PM

Let's not forget seat heaters. I bought a set off eBay pretty cheap. That's what I'm doing first and for certain. I'm sure they were under $60 a pair and heated seats are awesome for a tired old back like mine.

Posted by: JimN73 Nov 10 2014, 10:30 AM

I see that the Webasto 2000 uses either gas or diesel. So, if you have carbs you already have a gas line from the tank that you can tap into. Either for a front or rear installation.

The engine compartment is pretty crowded, access to everything, including a heater, would be tough - but an installation in the rear trunk might work.

I have headers, so no heat. I put two 50 cfpm computer fans on each side of the car and pump air from the engine bay to the cabin, with pickup hoses near the center of the case. There is enough air flow to warm the car in town, but engine bay turbulence at higher speeds takes a lot of the warmth away. Should work fine with one of these heaters.

Posted by: euro911 Nov 10 2014, 11:13 AM

"Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, odorless, and tasteless gas that is slightly less dense than air. It is toxic to humans when encountered in concentrations above about 35 ppm."

I worry about carbon monoxide from the OEM air-cooled (or more appropriately air-heated) systems. I also hate the smell of the burning oil odor that comes from the engine compartment on any air-cooled VW or Porsche, and wonder just how much CO makes it into the cabin.

I think it would be wise to test, even with a battery-operated CO tester designed for home applications, just to see if it triggers the unit

Posted by: partwerks Nov 11 2014, 08:59 PM

Are they available anywhere?

Posted by: GeorgeRud Nov 11 2014, 09:58 PM

I certainly hope someone may actually see the gas heater in a 914 and not only the pictures posted above.

Before getting heat exchangers, I purchased an Eberspacher gas heater off eBay with the hope of installing it, but eventually the heat exchangers just seemed like less work. I do carry small battery powered CO detectors in my cars just to be safe. Private plane pilots also carry CO detectors for the same purpose.

Posted by: partwerks Nov 11 2014, 11:24 PM

Was it a gas or diesel, and do you still have it?

Posted by: GeorgeRud Nov 12 2014, 07:42 AM

It's still sitting in my garage, but I haven't fired it up in a few years. It is a gas fired heater from an old VW I think.

Posted by: euro911 Nov 12 2014, 02:26 PM

I never fired the Webasto that was in my SWB 911. I was installed in the 'smuggler's box, so it was sort of isolated a bit more from the front trunk area. I removed it and plan to restore it, but not sure if I will actually use it

Curious, has anybody ever heard of or experienced first-hand any negative aspects of one of these gas-fired heaters?

Posted by: partwerks Nov 13 2014, 11:39 PM

Waiting to hear back from them, but was wondering what the VAT stands for?

Posted by: hcdmueller Nov 14 2014, 12:52 AM

That is a British company, based in London. The value added tax (vat) is something around 20%, but we don't have to pay it since we are outside the EU. You may have to pay some customs fees for importing it.

Posted by: partwerks Nov 14 2014, 07:07 AM

They are supposed to get back with me with a more cost effective gas burner that will be better suited for it, and no charges to USA.

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 14 2014, 08:18 AM

I love the modern Espar heaters.. I had one in my double cab and if I ever really start "driving" my 356 I'll install one in it as well. They fire up and have clean, instant heat.

The only time I have had one not burn completely clean was when using premium fuel on a really cold day, the heater can't light off the higher octane as well.

Its the only way to go for real heat, really fast.

Posted by: Alapone Oct 13 2015, 10:16 AM

how difficult is the install of a modern heater? has anyone here published a step by step for modern heaters? I can find a few modern ones at reasonable prices (Eberspacher B4) what are the limitations or drawbacks of using these types in a 914?

A recent cold day drive has got me thinking this Is a must to squeeze an extra few months out of the driving season.

Posted by: Mark Henry Oct 13 2015, 02:17 PM

I'd install it right in the engine bay or rear trunk and pipe it through the existing heater channels in the longs.
The tank can be either the front or rear trunk.

Posted by: bandjoey Oct 13 2015, 03:00 PM

Drawback is cost. They're darn tootin expensive!

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Oct 13 2015, 03:22 PM

Jake: Do post pics of the install.

So, four options for six conversions or sixes that lost their HEs:
1. No heat (where I'm at right now)
2. Heat exchangers, factory or aftermarket
3. Gas heater
4. Heated seats, heated vests (LOL!), hair dryers in the front trunk to defrost (LOL?)

I've got heating elements in my seats that need to be hooked up, but wonder about defrost—and my feet—on cold days.

One thing I never liked about my 914-4 SSIs was the heat bleed on hot days, even after installing new diverters. There was always at least some heat coming through. Not nice in a black vinyl interior. A gas heater or some sort of electric heat would negate that problem...not to mention the CO problem.

pete

Posted by: mepstein Oct 13 2015, 03:40 PM

The factory heat exchangers bolt right in. The gas heater, not so much.

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Oct 13 2015, 05:08 PM

And...price for NOS factory heaters? The Dansk alternative were big dollars, and had some serious issues that makes one wary. Used factory exchangers, which are also $,$$$ in varying condition, may have CO problems. Hard to tell, harder to justify buying.

None of the aftermarket HEs are attractive to me, personally.

Gas heater seems problematic to me. Basic needs in warmer climes seem to be body heat (heated seats?) and defrost/foot warmers (minor electric heat?).

Thoughts?

pete

Posted by: Mark Henry Oct 13 2015, 06:21 PM

New Espar D2 airtronic is about a grand, so that's about a 1/3 of the cost of the new /6 heat exchangers. I see complete systems on Kijiji/Craigslist for half that price.

I have seen them, there's nothing to them, hardest part would be the fab up on a fuel tank.

Posted by: Alapone Oct 15 2015, 02:38 PM

-Yea I was looking at a used gas airtronic on ebay for reasonable amount just wondering the difficulty level for install. If anyone has successfully tamed this dragon please post the how to.

-I don't know about you but after a couple seasons with headers and no heat Im screaming for a real solution (read; not electric heated clothing)

Posted by: Alapone Oct 15 2015, 02:39 PM

I am in the NE though. A real solution could extend my season 2+ months

Posted by: Mueller Oct 15 2015, 04:57 PM

If it does not rain this weekend, I will see how the heater I have fits in the front trunk.

edit...Ouch....lowest price on on eBay is $450 with shipping for same exact model.
edit again I just placed an order on ebay for a a 12vdc to 24vdc power supply.

Posted by: lonewolfe Oct 15 2015, 08:29 PM

What kind of heater is that? I can't make out the brand. Please keep us posted on your progress. I've been thinking of adding a gas heater for the last couple years. It never occurred to me to locate it in the rear trunk or in the engine bay. The rear trunk is appealing to me. Is your heater gas or diesel? Are you going to use a separate fuel tank? Mostly what you see on Ebay are diesel heaters because all the semi-trucks use them for heat. The gas heaters are not nearly as common.

Posted by: Mueller Oct 15 2015, 08:36 PM

Benmar is the brand, gasoline for fuel. I think it is too big for the rear trunk , but I could be wrong. Will try and snap pictures of it sitting in both front and rear.

Posted by: mepstein Oct 15 2015, 08:55 PM

If you have a type 4 engine then the stock heat exchangers are a real solution. Available, bolt on, reasonably priced and work great.
I have only ever seen one 914 with a working gas heater. Every year it is often talked about but almost never done.

Posted by: Mueller Oct 16 2015, 12:23 PM

Pictures as promised....pic 1 and 2 inside front trunk.

Last pic in the rear trunk, looks like it would fit with no real problems, I'd cut a hole in the trunk floor for the exhaust to gain another 2 inches of space. Rear lid would close like shown in the picture.

Posted by: Mueller Oct 18 2015, 12:13 PM

I found the installation manual for mine...

Fuel: gasoline, diesel and JP-4

Weight: 10 pounds, figure another 10 pounds worth of stuff to install it (ducting and fuel pump...3psi to 15psi max)

Posted by: Mueller Oct 21 2015, 11:07 PM

Need to find a low pressure fuel pump now....
Hooked it up to 12VDC and thru magic, 24VDC popped up on the other side of the wires!

Posted by: Steve Oct 22 2015, 06:34 PM

It seems like a good spot to mount it would be in place of the battery. You could then just run the hose down the stock passenger side or get a "T" to connect both sides. I would be paranoid to put something combustible in the front trunk with the gas tank. Even though it looks like there was an aftermarket unit available for the front trunk. I am also curious if there is enough circulation in the rear trunk. Especially with the top back there and other personal crap.

Posted by: euro911 Oct 22 2015, 07:46 PM

Sounds logical to me

Posted by: Mueller Jan 2 2018, 02:34 PM

Update on this heater I've had for years!

No go with the 12vdc to 24vdc converter, it claims it is 10 amps yet it will barely run the fan.

I did get the heater to fire up using 2 12vdc car batteries in series, however after 5 minute run time it shut off. I smoked quite a bit out of the exhaust, could be due to age and from someone previously running a different fuel? (I used gas)

Decided not worth it and will be in the market for real heat exchangers to replace my patched up no name header.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 2 2018, 03:07 PM

HE’s are the way to go. Bolt up quickly and throw tons of heat. Do you need 1.7’s or 2.0

Posted by: Mueller Jan 2 2018, 03:13 PM

1.8 with a slightly hotter cam.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 2 2018, 03:54 PM

I have stock steel ones (1.7, 1.8) that you can have for free. a bunch of connector tubes, hanger and (probably) a cable and barrel nuts. I don't have flapper boxes. Have a good muffler to use until you buy a nice one. all for cost of shipping.
probably have a lever if you need one.
I can do a SS setup with everything but flapper boxes for $300 shipped.
Offer is good any time.

Posted by: GeorgeRud Jan 2 2018, 05:06 PM

I also purchased the same heater as Mueller, and glad to see that it could fit in the car. Perhaps using two 12-24 volt converters could provide adequate wattage to run the fan. I also have a used B1L Eberspacherthat I was going to use with my headers, but eventually found some good heat exchangers so went that route. I remember that gas heaters do work quite well in heating the interior, but they’re not the easiest thing to fit safely.

Posted by: Mueller Jan 2 2018, 06:07 PM

Looking at a schematic I found online, the ignitor is actually 12vdc , they use a resistor to drop reduce the voltage so it might be possible to install a different fan and convert it to run entirely on 12vdc (I used a Mr Gasket carb fuel pump ran off of 12vdc)

One thread I found about these heaters mention ditching the stock ignitor and using a car cigarette lighter element. I'm at the point now that I really don't feel that comfortable modifying something that burns raw fuel like these heaters!

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 2 2018, 09:23 PM

Get the $300 shipping included heat exchanger package and be done with it. sell the sell the heater.

Posted by: GeorgeRud Jan 2 2018, 09:26 PM

By chance, do you still have that schematic? I’d love to get a copy.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 2 2018, 09:29 PM

It’s only offered to Mike at this time so no rush for him to decide.

Posted by: Rand Jan 3 2018, 12:12 AM

This again? Wear clothes that make you comfortable outside in whatever the conditions are. It won't be colder inside your 914. Sheesh... buy a down jacket. Do you need an Eberspacheror or Webasto that heats your town too? Ermergerd, it's cold, waaaaah.

Obviously I'm poking fun, but for crying out loud, wear a jacket. You have to get outside of your car too. I don't want to see a 914 driver running across the parking lot to their office with a frozen pinky in the air crying about how cold it is outside.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 3 2018, 07:24 AM

My first 914 had no heat. I drove it through the winter. Sucks having to open the window to keep the windshield from fogging up. I was 17.

A couple years ago I daily drove my stock 1.7 to work through the winter. Toasty heat. Had to crack the window if the heat lever was wide open.

The stock heat exchanger system is great.

Posted by: BeatNavy Jan 3 2018, 07:45 AM

I tell you what, the stock HE system is at least better than nothing. It was 5 degrees when I left the house this morning. I know for some north of me that's like but for us in VA that's more like , especially in a teener that spent the night outside. My heat system is probably not functioning flawlessly, but I managed to get to work without looking too much like a popsicle. I just wish it didn't lose the heat in the cabin as fast as it does...

Posted by: Rand Jan 3 2018, 12:08 PM

My first 914 roasted me out on the drive home after buying it. It was a cold winter evening in Seattle. I didn't yet know how to operate the dash controls, so I rolled the window down, lol. For sure, the stock HEs work great when everything is in good shape. But not everyone who has headers or no HEs for whatever reason is going to go back to the stock setup.

My current teener doesn't have heat. I spend so much time outdoors and never let the weather get in the way. I dress for the conditions, so really don't care about a heater. Defrost is the only thing I miss, but there are glass treatments that are effective at stopping fog (Rain-x has some). I've been known to use an "indoor-safe" Coleman gas heater with window cracked when the ice was bad.

I have another car with creature comforts when needed. But to me, part of what I love about the 914 is the lack of them.

Posted by: blabla914 Jan 3 2018, 12:13 PM

Guys, in addition to my 914 I've got a bug with an Eberspacher heater. BN-2 if I remember right. I ran the car here in CT a few winters with just the BN-2 and no heat exchangers.

The big problem with that setup is the BN-2 has two settings, OFF and HELL. Even with the larger interior of the beetle and 20F air temperature after 10 or 15 min you are dying from the heat. Turn the heater off and 10 min later it's getting pretty chilly. Trust me, my car is not some rusted out POS. I did all the welding myself and that car is tight with a stock steel hood and all new rubber. I basically spent the winter driving around with the heater on and the windows open, which is actually kind of nice if you like being outside, but man do you burn gas! Gas heater without any heater boxes just doesn't work that great.

If it's not really cold out a gas heater will warm you up quick and then I guess you could turn it off for longer. Though if it's not really that cold, get seat heaters. I have them in my 914 which runs headers and they work great. It's a whole lot cheaper and install is a snap.

Based on the experience with my beetle there is no way I'd spend the time and money to put any gas heater in my 914 without heater boxes too.

Just my $.02

Kelly

Posted by: BeatNavy Jan 3 2018, 12:44 PM

The joy of pure driving. Most people don't understand.

Posted by: Rand Jan 3 2018, 12:52 PM

LOL! Love that summary. Your window regulators become the thermostat.

Posted by: SirAndy Jan 3 2018, 12:54 PM

Same thing on my '74 Super Beetle i had back in the '80s. The Eberspächer turned the inside from below zero to sauna in less than 15 minutes.

Posted by: GeorgeRud Jan 3 2018, 01:55 PM

I know that Eberspacher (now Espar) sells a thermostatically controlled switch, but don’t know if it works with the older heaters.

Posted by: Mueller Jan 3 2018, 02:55 PM

I could only find a few online which are not 100% the same for some reason.

If I find a better one I'll let you know.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTr-sHpYfcz0tjEh7GqdXZqQZL7yInatDQEkSBibNsA_julpI3VHw

Posted by: Larmo63 Jan 3 2018, 08:10 PM

My first 356 had a Webasto gas heater in it. Mark is right, they may a "vacuum" type sound when they light.

It was a '64 356 SC. Cool car, but I hated that it was red.

Posted by: 914Timo Jan 4 2018, 01:16 PM

I had Eberspächer in my ´72 Beetle back in the '80s too. When the temperature had rised from zero to sauna and I shut dawn the Eber, it didn´t make any heat any more. But, the blower still keep on blowing air inside the car. It needed to cool dawn the heater. So, the temperature was soon nearly zero again, and the Eber had to start again.....

Posted by: blabla914 Jan 4 2018, 02:53 PM

I had Eberspächer in my ´72 Beetle back in the '80s too. When the temperature had rised from zero to sauna and I shut dawn the Eber, it didn´t make any heat any more. But, the blower still keep on blowing air inside the car. It needed to cool dawn the heater. So, the temperature was soon nearly zero again, and the Eber had to start again..... headbang.gif

Yes I neglected to mention this. My BN-2 does exactly the same thing. by the time the heater is done cooling down......so has the interior of the car.