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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Deep sump on a street-driven 914

Posted by: perrysan Dec 13 2010, 05:46 PM

I purchased a deep sump kit for my 73 914 2.0. My mechanic cautioned me against installing it, saying he's had a fair share of 914s with the deep sumps that had engine damage from dragging over speed bumps and other daily road hazzards.

I'm curious if anyone here has a deep sump kit on a street car, and if so is this a major concern? Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

-Rob

Posted by: GeorgeRud Dec 13 2010, 06:02 PM

I would agree with your mechanic. You don't need it for a street car, and it is prone to damage.

Also, as the VW type 4 engine (ie a 914 engine) has the oil drain plate attached to a main bearing part of the crankcase, why take a chance of truly destroying your engine.

Posted by: McMark Dec 13 2010, 06:16 PM

The 'tuna can' is a safer route. But I haven't seen a deep-sump-disaster in the shop or seen one posted on the site, so I don't have any first hand knowledge of the possible danger.
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Posted by: Als914 Dec 13 2010, 06:21 PM

I have been running a deep sump, remote oil filter and cooler + fan for over fifteen years in my '74. The fact is that driving out of SoCal requires long, steep, upward climbs in all directions mostly into desert and at 100 + deg. temperatures it has served me well without any trouble.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Dec 13 2010, 06:45 PM

I'll not go into any sort of highly developed rant here, let's just say I think it's a REALLY bad idea. Of course that cuts down on my chances to do a really expensive engine overhaul .........................

The Cap'n

Posted by: Brett W Dec 13 2010, 06:59 PM

The only way to do it properly is to disassemble the engine and machine the case and stud the mounts. It is a lot of work for not a lot of gain. More oil isn't necessarily a good thing on an aircooled engine. If your engine was oil cooled like a 911 it would be ok, but the T4 is more aircooled than oil cooled. Takes longer to heat the oil up, so on short trips it takes longer to burn the contaminates off your oil, which in turn causes more wear inside the engine. Not worth it. I have run a tuna can and that is all I would do to add oil capacity. It will help keep the pickup covered.

Posted by: Als914 Dec 13 2010, 08:04 PM

Let me add that before retiring two years ago I drove my 914 daily 48 miles into down town LA and commutes going home during summer months were typically three to four hours in stop and go highway traffic. I needed all the cooling I could get.

BTW, my sump bolted up in less than an hour. I put new P&C's on the engine this year but didn't crack the case open from my first rebuild from the mid 1980's. So if you don't want results like this don't put a deep sump on. It's just what I did.

Posted by: '73-914kid Dec 13 2010, 08:43 PM

I'd have to agree with Al on this one. I've had my deep sump on for a year, and have had NO issues what so ever. My motor leaks no oil, from anywhere, so as long as you install it correctly, I don't see why it would leak.
My car is also as low as you can go with a street 914, and the stamped steel sump cover only touched the ground once, on a very weird drive way/ corner. I've never had any issues with oil pressure drops through the corners on daily driving, nor on a very high G autocross. I've never had oil temperature problems either, in quite a bit of long highway driving, and 110 degree weather.

Do what you want, but I've had zero issues with my deep sump. Maybe in a softer sprung car that has a larger risk of bouncing through bumps may risk sump contact, but so far, so good after a full year of daily driving through some fairly nasty roads.

Posted by: yeahmag Dec 13 2010, 09:05 PM

Baltimore streets are terrible... I grew up just south of there. Damn near next thing to off road driving. I very rarely persuade people to *not* install a deep sump/tuna can, but if you are driving through Baltimore I'd think twice.

Second to not having one my vote would be for a tuna can. Be sure you check the height of the extended pick up. I had to "massage" mine to perfection.

Posted by: Millerwelds Dec 13 2010, 09:37 PM

There was one installed on my daily driver when I got it. Living in a somewhat rural community and working in real estate means driving on lots of rough gravel roads. Never once have I had a problem, and my car is pretty low. Now the front tow hooks are another story.

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Dec 13 2010, 10:14 PM

tuna can bolts to the stock bolt that pulls on teh case. it leaked. I dont like it. deep sump however, does not use that weak point to hold it on. 10jreen is very low and we havent hit it yet. Ziggy had one for 5 years, never hit. white whale had one for 3 yrs, never hit. yeller has one but I only owned it for 6 months, never hit.
I believe this myth to be propagated by bug guys. the bug engine hangs way out back , far away from teh wheels, placiing it in harms way.
the 914 sump is closer to the rear wheel , it is not cantilevered out there like a bug engine

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Dec 13 2010, 10:18 PM

i have seen 914s starve out a tuna can in a sweeper. deep sump has alot of surface area to cool. tuna cans dont always go on straight because that stud coming from teh center of the oil pick up can be off center making it VERY difficult to seal it up or even mount it correctly. I have also seen many cracked cases from over torquing that center stud that the deep sumps i have installed dont use to hold the sump on.

Posted by: RobW Dec 13 2010, 10:32 PM

If you think you drive hard enough to starve the engine on one side, then do a tuna can. That said Autocross is the only time I've seen this possible for a duration that matters....

Posted by: DanT Dec 13 2010, 10:32 PM

have been using "tuna cans" for 20 years on 4 of my 5 914s (one was a 2.7-6 )
and if installed correctly and carefully I have never experienced any issues and no oil starvation. These cars have all been heavily AXed and 3 of the 4 have been extensively used on track as well (my current car just has not had the chance to get to the track as of yet )