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Posted by: C.Plavan Jan 1 2011, 01:11 PM

I'm a 914 newbie, but not a 911 newb. I was going to buy this car for a race car project. I showed the pictures to a fellow 914 racer and he had some concerns about the Hell Hole area. I figured I could just weld over the spot to strengthen, but from what I understand it could be more than just the hole that shows damage.
So after doing some more research, I'm even more concerned.

I asked the seller to send me more pictures of this area from the top, bottom, and from the wheel well area.
Just looking for some more guidance, should I pass on it and look for a different car? I'm thinking it may not be worth the headache. Your thoughts?

Posted by: silver74insocal Jan 1 2011, 01:45 PM

more experienced people will chime in soon but yes thats your suspension "long" thats rusting out there. as for your question, let me ask this:
does the asking price reflect the repair needed to this area?
if not, walk away. whether YOU do it or not it will need to be done at some point. i agree you will want more pics. someone might be in the area to actually go see the car for you. Good luck!

Posted by: MrHyde Jan 1 2011, 01:45 PM

You California peoples get all the good cars !! I can only wish that my car was in that good of shape... Hell hole repair parts are easily available with new stampings.
I'm not sure which way i'd go as far as patching it or cutting out more and replacing it.. Your damage is really simple compared to what I have on my car..
My $0.02 + exchage would be to get it and fix it up
Cheers,
Mike

Posted by: detoxcowboy Jan 1 2011, 01:46 PM

California Car? How was it stored? Empty lot? Or a driver than has not been attened too? Anyways from the picture it could just be a hole in the first and very common area to get affected. The engine shelf piece that welds in will replaace that area nicely and cost about $130; no big deal if that is all it is. My 74 California car had the same replacement, did not have a hole in the hell hole when I bought it ; but upon poking around in that same area I found it was paper thin ( I could actually poke holes in it with my screw driver) and was ready to be replaced. For this reason I suggest to investigate in person (ready to get dirty) as pics can lie as to the actual condition of the metal, surface rust my ass.....; or sometinmes just clean ups nice..

Posted by: JRust Jan 1 2011, 01:53 PM

Really depends how bad it is below that. that is the topside of the longitude. How is it below? Is the jackpost still there? Is it solid? With that big a rust hole I would think there is a hole below & some more damage. You never know though. Any pics of the long from the side & below?

How much are they asking? What is included?

Posted by: detoxcowboy Jan 1 2011, 01:54 PM

On further inspection of your pic, where is the engine shelf piece I mentioned, it is missing...battery tray? That piece missing would included the hole area as well but as 74 So Cal stated... the piece will but up to your longitudinal which seems to be fine or very slightly rusted at the edge hole area/engine shelf, still not a bad situation at all..

The rep[lacement piece for that area is pictured below so you can get an Idea what is affected on yur car or not..

Posted by: detoxcowboy Jan 1 2011, 01:56 PM

What is below the hole area is most important and why I suggest investigation in person.

Posted by: C.Plavan Jan 1 2011, 02:00 PM

Here is a better close up picture.

The car was stored inside since 2003 ish. Cost of repair was not considered at the time. It is a CA car. Its a 1973 roller with side shift trans (condition unknown), no hood or rear decklid, no seats or any interior.
What would you experienced guys know off the price if it could be repaired? (Waiting on more detailed pictures)
I'm just concerned it goes down into the rocker and more.

Thanks for the info.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 1 2011, 02:03 PM

That damage is nothing! If the car is cheap enough all you need is a small patch and a new engine shelf. I see that they bracketed it for swing arm triangulation, that is good.

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 1 2011, 02:06 PM

That alone is not a show stopper.....IF the of the area passes the screwdriver test.
There are other spots (they'd fill a book) that go to hell and you should get someone that knows them to look/ screwdriver test the car.

The fire wall joint with the floor pan looks shakey also.

Posted by: detoxcowboy Jan 1 2011, 02:06 PM

DR. Auto Atlanta can provide all the replacement parts you would need though he did not mention it. Your not in bad shape at all. Californing Car and Storage inside since 2003 is all very very good sighns of limited damage..

Posted by: C.Plavan Jan 1 2011, 02:14 PM

It has new floor pans, but notice the cut and welding. Seems OK.


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Posted by: JRust Jan 1 2011, 02:18 PM

the lower area circled i am not sure of. Looks like some bondo or fiberglass there. That makes me think it may have quite a bit more rust below. Your best bet is to go see it in person & take something to poke in the questionable areas. If you find more rust I would recomend looking for something else. If this is your first 914. You are better off paying more for a good solid chassis. Unless you really like to weld & are good at it

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 1 2011, 02:27 PM

Blow up your first pic and look at the edge of the firewallwhere it is supposed to hit the floor pan.
Your latest pic shows the forward side of a void (double wall) at the base of the firewall.

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 1 2011, 02:32 PM

Right below the clevis on the firewall

Posted by: C.Plavan Jan 1 2011, 02:51 PM

I think this is what you are looking for..... And I think I see what you mean....

Is that fiberglass on the other picture?

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 1 2011, 02:58 PM

There is a piece missing there, the doughnut bracket....just below the thermostat.
I don't have a good pic of the area but the snot doesn't belong there...best pic I got. I'm sure someone does...help the man out, eh?


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Posted by: C.Plavan Jan 1 2011, 04:55 PM

More pictures. Owner says he did a screwdriver test.... I do not like that bondo crap.

Posted by: C.Plavan Jan 1 2011, 04:57 PM

more pictures

Posted by: C.Plavan Jan 1 2011, 04:59 PM

more

Posted by: C.Plavan Jan 1 2011, 05:02 PM

Rockers look a little different.

Posted by: Spoke Jan 1 2011, 05:08 PM

This car looks like an east coast rust bucket. The passenger long is gone on the outside and replaced by a piece of steel.

The firewall is rusted along the entire edge of the floor.

This car should be really cheap to be worth it.

Are you trying to save money and get a car to work on rust-wise, or do you want a 914 to drive?

Posted by: kg6dxn Jan 1 2011, 05:10 PM

Based on the last pictures... Buy a new tub and strip the good parts off that one. Someone has done major work to the longs and not done it correctly. I also see parts chopped off in the engine bay. You will spend way too much making this one right. Buy another roller with less rust. I have a similar car that I'm cutting up due to rust like yours. Your passenger long looks like a hack job, although it may be structually sound.

Posted by: brant Jan 1 2011, 05:19 PM

Chad,

good to see you on this board and looking into 914's
I've read your posts frequently on pelican

this car used to be really rusty
someone put a lot of effort into repairing the rust
I'd probably try to form an opinion about that person's abilities to know how good their work was.

as a racer, its not going to be the lightest one because welding and patch panels add weight

looks like a lot of good parts though
not a complete total, but not pristine.
I'm guessing a cage will add back enough of the rigidity, and a suspension console may be necessary... but they aren't that hard to do

just time and money like everything else.

good to see you looking into 914's
brant

Posted by: Joe Sharp Jan 1 2011, 05:20 PM

Post #21 It looks to me like that car has about 1000 pounds of scrapmetal.

Posted by: C.Plavan Jan 1 2011, 05:35 PM

Very true, after seeing those rockers, there was a reason those were put on. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.



Again, thanks for all this- I appreciate all the help and insight.



LOL not good for a race car!


Brant- You have a PM

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 1 2011, 07:28 PM

I would want to see pictures of the existing repairs in progress before I felt comfortable about building that chassis into a fast -6 race car.
More than likely, those pictures would convince me to keep looking.

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 1 2011, 07:35 PM

Posted by: MrHyde Jan 1 2011, 10:59 PM

Those last pics look like what was done to my car before the "repair" pieces rusted out... Those are the same parts I'm cutting out and putting in proper sheet metal...

Posted by: SirAndy Jan 1 2011, 11:18 PM

Looks like your typical "Hey, what should i do with this old rust-bucket? I know, let's build a race-car!"

Posted by: hot_shoe914 Jan 1 2011, 11:57 PM

Well, since nobody else asked, I will. Does that motor that is in it come with it? If so, what kind of shape is the motor in. Looks like a six to me, might be worth the money.

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 2 2011, 06:12 AM

From Chad's 2nd post:

Posted by: C.Plavan Jan 2 2011, 10:01 AM

That was a 911 2.2L he had it in there to mock up an engine mount. It was something he designed. I would not of trusted the mount, and he did not either. I have an extra 2.5L 911 short stroke race motor that I plan on using.

This car might be to much of a "Hack" for what I am looking to do.
I really wanted to make a 914-6 GT clone. This car has its windshield cut off.
It's front susp is from a 911SC (with brakes). Rear 5 hub. Old Fuel Safe cell (square, not OEM position).
I'm just trying to figure out if I should buy it for parts.

To bring a little happiness to this thread, here is my 911ST race car that I just completed a makeover on. With English Wheel rear steel flares done locally.

Posted by: detoxcowboy Jan 2 2011, 10:01 AM

This thread started with a small hole.... This is exactly why you have to investigate thouroughly.

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 2 2011, 10:30 AM

That's one nice 9eleben.
As for a parts car, I'd wait till you after find something you want. From what I could see, the other car will still be around..& cheeper....if you still need parts.
Too many "ughknowns" to trust anything on it.

Posted by: C.Plavan Jan 2 2011, 12:05 PM

Thanks- I love that Blue monster.

Would it change your mind if the 914 had a fully welded in roll cage already done by a well known professional in the area? The cage is not a hack job. Its good. It is also tied to the susp points. Would you overlook the rockers knowing the car is stiff?
The car is priced well under the cost of the cage itself, full 911 susp, sway bar, fuel safe fuel cell, two setrab oil coolers, rear 5 lug, rear Bilstein coil overs.
What would you consider a "good" deal? $1800 or less?

Posted by: kg6dxn Jan 2 2011, 12:18 PM

Buy it for parts. cut the cage out carefully and re use it. Pull the other stuff off too. Then find a cheap roller with less rust to build from.

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 2 2011, 12:44 PM

That is, obviously, your quandary.
The car's chassis itself I wouldn't trust, flat out. The rockers are scary. The cage, as you describe *now*, does make it interesting, however. If you feel it can be removed without buggering to badly then yes, that is a good price....IF you know the cage was built by a pro....for sure.

The car was mis-represented from the git-go it seems or maybe , giving the benefit of the doubt, we didn't have enough info to make a judgment.

The problem I have (and you're probably the same) is when I see poor workmanship in one area the rest becomes suspect.....even parts. When you dig into a car to "make it your own" you shouldn't be surprised to find more shi....stuff not up to snuff. Your 9eleben show you to be the kind of guy that is gonna dig & fix.

Posted by: C.Plavan Jan 2 2011, 01:03 PM

Earlier, I was more concerned with that rust hole, I figured a good eye would of seen the cage in some pictures. He just sent me the pics of the rockers yesterday.
So yes, I'm just trying to figure out if will be worth the headache- I'm going back and forth.
I would prefer a better chassis but the extras have me still thinking about it.

What's the cost of a complete 911 front susp nowadays? I have not priced that in years.

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 2 2011, 03:38 PM

The one pic of the drivers side floor shows a small portion of the cage. From what little I can see of it, I'm not impressed. The main hoop is located such that a full circumferential weld at the base looks impossible, and the visible door bar indicates a flat x-brace design. Outwardly bent X or Nascar bars would be much better IMO.
In the same picture I see more patchwork at the bottom of the firewall.

A price of $1800 sounds very reasonable with all that's included.
Good roll cage - $2000+
Sportsman cell - $800+ (is it in good internal condition though? Unleaded kills fuel cell foam and rubber)
SC front end - $500.
Rusty tub - minus $500.

Posted by: jeeperjohn56 Jan 2 2011, 06:11 PM

Hey Chad, Check with Craig(Boxstr) in the car want adds, he has a 73 roller for $650, see if you can talk a deal to get rid of it. my .02 worth John

Posted by: realred914 Jan 3 2011, 01:41 AM

that body should be run away from, too much rust to be worth while for 95% of the folks, it has lots of rust you can do better