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Posted by: Woody Jan 5 2011, 01:16 PM

Does anybody have any experience with the OBX header? This is for a 2056. I need to redo the exhaust and while I would love a Tangerine setup its just not in the budget at the moment.

Posted by: Chris Hamilton Jan 5 2011, 01:44 PM

I too am curious if anyone has experience with these.

edit: here is the ebay listing http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-HEADER-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-69-76-PORSCHE-914-H4-2-0L- _W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem255fc1ceb9QQitemZ160520326841QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTru
ckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_1759wt_941

Posted by: DanT Jan 5 2011, 02:58 PM

I prefer headers that use stub pipes that connect directly to the head, and then you bolt the header to the stub pipes...much easier for installation and removal in the future...and you are not playing with the exhaust studs constantly.

Posted by: Chris Hamilton Jan 5 2011, 04:23 PM

I like stub pipes as much as the next 914 owner, but a set of stub pipes by themselves from Tangerine cost more than this entire header.

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 5 2011, 06:25 PM

Rule of thumb:
You get what you pay for.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 5 2011, 07:21 PM

Tangerine headers: better flowing, sounding, and looking than anything Porsche
ever made.





John

Posted by: Woody Jan 5 2011, 07:22 PM

Oh I understand that. I would love to buy one of your set ups and I probably will. Its just gonna take some time to get there.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jan 5 2011, 10:21 PM

I mostly hang on the bird in the turbo forum, where heat is an issue and this brand has been discussed in turbo applications frequently. OBX I belive is a chinese mass produced product with questionable welds and fitment issues (at least for the 930). the problem with the welds is that there is typically a lot of slag left in these, just one small piece breaks off and your turbo is gone. The welds also crack fairly easily with the turbo heat as well, but as stated above, you get what you pay for. In a N/A 914 application, it may not be as much of an issue. People have posted pictures of the fittment being over 1/2 inch off at the heads...

Posted by: Chris Hamilton Jan 6 2011, 02:51 AM

The last thread ended with everyone fiercely speculating about how the quality couldn't be very good.

I'm assuming that if they manufacture these things someone must have bought one at some point and have some real experience with it?

Posted by: race914 Jan 6 2011, 12:05 PM

I'll never use anything else.... you definitely get what you pay for...

Been using these since Garretson started making them, then Quiet HP, then Chris... Absolutely the best!!

Posted by: underthetire Jan 6 2011, 01:48 PM

I don't have that brand, but mine look the same. I can tell you that the 4-1 collector is just an exhaust leak X4. Had to weld mine up.

Posted by: silver74insocal Jan 6 2011, 11:29 PM

Kerry Hunter?
http://kerryhunterenterprise.com/914-4.htm

after welding how is it? what muffler are you running?

Posted by: abayer1969 Jan 7 2011, 08:10 AM

I see a total of 3 2into 1 connections on the tangerine header where is the 4 into 1 collecter?

Posted by: tradisrad Jan 7 2011, 08:40 AM

I recall seeing some SS heat exchangers for about $100 more than those headers on ebay and you wont need a special muffler. Just a thought. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=113552 Oh, and you'll have heat!

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 7 2011, 10:19 AM

i was waiting for OBX to do the right thing before posting this but I have a duty to the 914 community to show ya'll this. OBX wants me to pay return shipping before I get a refund. I offered to help solve these incorrect alignment issues. I will post the email string that has been going on fro 6 months.

if OXB does the right thing after seeing this I will still be surprised, but first the pics


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Woody Jan 7 2011, 10:26 AM

Wow, thats not just off a little bit either.

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 7 2011, 10:28 AM

I even sent these photos to OBX
obx sells on ebay under racing parts depot. they sell other porsche parts such as lsd limited slip

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-HEADER-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-69-76-PORSCHE-914-H4-2-0L- _W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem255fc1ceb9QQitemZ160520326841QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTru
ckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

they also sell OBX Helical LSD Differential LSD 92-95 PORSCHE 968 G50

I wonder if the quality control is the same crap as the header



Attached image(s)

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Jan 7 2011, 10:48 AM

That is just FUGLY

I wonder how many exhaust studs have been broken by folks trying to "make it work" and squeeze them to fit? That one there has not chance of even hitting half the correct studs. Not even sure it those could be made to work with a chop and some "corrective" stub pipes.

Thanks for sharing this, it was the right call

I have said many times on the forum that a good set of headers was the best investment I have made to "wake up" my TIV. I prefer good power and sound over heat

Posted by: Sawfish Jan 7 2011, 11:41 AM

Wow thats too bad... Why wouldnt they make an attempt at getting this right or resolving this problem? At least pay for shipping and refund the money?

Its really too bad some simple geometry changes and better customer service they would have more than a few 914 fans. Thanks for the posts!

Posted by: Woody Jan 7 2011, 11:53 AM

Any fans of the Kerry Hunter setup?

Posted by: Sawfish Jan 7 2011, 11:56 AM

I was leaning towards A Kerry Hunter after reading this about the obx issues.
I will post with pictures if I purchase one

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 7 2011, 02:22 PM

we ran a Kerry hunter w suoper trap on teh 10jreen 2.4 103 x 71. now its on ziggy's 2056 d jet
the materials and weld work look very clean on the stainless steel OBX but you can not get it to bolt up. its not even close. still no responce from racing parts depot in oakland ca

Posted by: hydroliftin Jan 7 2011, 02:39 PM

Yes, I am a fan of the Kerry Hunter setup. The only problem is that I don't think thwy make them any more. I bought mine used from e-bay a couple of years ago. Bolted up fine. No problems since.

Posted by: yeahmag Jan 7 2011, 03:50 PM

I think the Kerry Hunter is being made again.

http://www.kerryhunterenterprise.com/

Posted by: DanT Jan 7 2011, 04:08 PM

I ran a version of the Euro Race headers that are also sold by Paragon Products...
Mine were ceramic coated inside and out, ran very well on my D-jetted 2056
4 into one collector...each individual header pipe is bolted up to a stub pipe and then into the collector...easy to mount and align that way.



Attached image(s)

Posted by: 914rat Jan 7 2011, 05:04 PM

Chris also makes an economy version Tangerine with a magna flow muffler for about $1000.Don't know how it compares with the Kerry Hunter or ERH but the ERH is $765 and couldn't find a current price on the Kerry Hunter last price posted with the supertrapp muffler was $520 in 2002.Any bets on which one is better?

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 7 2011, 06:27 PM

Kerry Hunter hasn't made a 914-4 header for many years, but you can get a repro from AA.
Either way, there are some real shortcomings that can't be overlooked, especially for street-car use. IMEO (in my expert opinion), the ERH isn't any better, despite what owners of them will tell you.

Remember - louder is faster, right?

Posted by: Chris Hamilton Jan 7 2011, 06:59 PM

Dan, that header looks great! Do you have any more pictures from other angles?

Posted by: DanT Jan 7 2011, 07:05 PM

I will have to take a look at my photos....I am not sure I have any other pics with it installed Chris.

here is a decent shot of all the pieces before install.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: underthetire Jan 7 2011, 08:36 PM

Looks the same but does not have the spring. I bought them off someone here for thirty five bucks. They had holes it looked like you could put screws through, but I figured they would just come out and put a hole in my tire. Inreally need to pull them off and weld them better, but it works. Muffler is just a dual tip tuna can. Its a little loud, but not as bad as a super trap or something.

Posted by: geniusanthony Jan 7 2011, 11:47 PM

I have a patrick/kerry hunter header and aside from the obvious lack of heat, I have no complaints, you must keep in mind that it is mild steel

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 8 2011, 12:57 AM

I would throw it in the trash for a chris foley header in a heart beat...but first i need a new 2400 to put it on. my customers have better engines than me

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 8 2011, 01:59 AM

I have provided pictures several times. Would you like them again? I am only asking for what is reasonable and customary in a fair transaction of defective parts
I will gladly box it up and send it back ASAP on your shipping account. Already paid to ship it here when I bought it. please Send the return shipping ticket to my shop as indicated in my signature. You get discount shipping because of volume, right?
Regards, Sean M Molloy
sdAutosport.com
7323 El Cajon Blvd
La Mesa CA 91941

From: EBAY @ RPD [mailto:ebay@racingpartsdepot.com]
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 1:09 PM
To: Sean Molloy
Subject: Re: OBX porsche header refund RMA

go ahead,
i told you at first time ok, you need to send picture and header back for refund,
you never do that my request,
RPD

----- Original Message -----
From: Sean Molloy
To: 'EBAY @ RPD'

Read this. Over 1000 Porsche owners will read this in less than 3 days. This is an opportunity for you to look good and do the honorable thing.
Next will be on rennlist.com pelicanparts.com 914club.com clubnarp.com paypal ebay craigslist

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=114377&st=0&gopid=1414682&#entry1414682

From: Sean Molloy
I will gladly box it up and send it back ASAP on your shipping account. Send the return shipping ticket to my shop as indicated in my signature. What is your address?

From: EBAY @ RPD
i being looking for your you header case all over warehouse now i get my answer, you ask me for refund that you don't even return yet,
you need to return the header for refund, you can see my very first reply email that i ask you for picture and return the header back for refund,
thank you
RPD

----- Original Message -----
From: Sean Molloy
There is no tracking number, We have not gotten that far. You did not ask me to return it yet. Most companies I deal with issue an RMA and a return shipping ticket. I still have the defective header here. I will gladly box it up and send it back on your shipping account. Send the return shipping ticket to my shop as indicated in my signature.

Are all the other headers in stock messed up (defective alignment) or just this one? Send me a header that fits correctly. That would be a good solution also. A refund is good but a well fitting header that bolts up would be the best option.
Places like 914world.com, 914club.com, pelicanparts.com, pcasdr.org, clubnarp.com, rennlist.com, pcaocr.org, pcagpx.org are all eagerly awaiting the outcome of this header issue. This is the 12th email between us. I would like to resolve it in under 20.
Regards, Sean M Molloy
sdAutosport.com
7323 El Cajon Blvd
La Mesa CA 91941

From: EBAY @
ok,, i received your invoice number, i need to look for return header, i will let you know, anyway do you have return tracking number? if yes easy for me to look
----- Original Message -----
From: Sean Molloy
item purchased Aug 5th 2010
item number. 150469525345
shipped to xxxxxxx 4720 cvbnmt San Diego, ca 921xx
this should be enough info, right. I am still looking for the invoice.

From: EBAY @ RPD
ok,, just give me your invoice number, your name on the invoice and shipping address so we can find out
thnak you
RPD

----- Original Message -----
From: Sean Molloy
Hello gentlemen
The item number (6037825xxx) you state is not me. I am sure you sold more than one of these. We bought the OBX header under item number 1504695xxx
My initial correspondence with racingparts depot was on Aug-13-10 15:55:04 PDT
Please make refund to my partner’s PayPal account email xxxxxxxxxxxnet
I am still interested in helping you fix these. I am a well respected Porsche 914 expert and racer, just google my name “sean molloy porsche 914” and you will find me

From: EBAY @ RPD [mailto:ebay@racingpartsdepot.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 1:20 PM

what are you talking about, for item # 160378259xx we already Refund back to your paypal account , refund date was 11/5/10
check in your paypal account,
----- Original Message -----
From: Sean Molloy
To: 'EBAY @ RPD' x
Hello gentlemen
I have not heard back from you or OBX about us (SDautosport.com) helping to fix the Porsche 914 header manufacturing fitment problems. Since much time has gone by I would like to take you up on your offer to refund our money for the header. Let me know what we need to do next to get that refund in the works. If you want the defective part returned to you, I will box it up. Just send me a UPS or FEDEX return ship ticket addressed to where you would like it to go to.
I still think it would be a shame to throw these all away if they are all defective fitment. Im sure you invested a lot of time and money to do a production run and I know the demand would be strong at this price point. Our shop has received many inquiries about your product and I put them on hold in anticipation of us resolving the fitment issues together. The materials seem to be good and the finish looks nice
Regards, Sean M Molloy

From: EBAY @ RPD [mailto:ebay@racingpartsdepot.com]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 2:16 PM

let me talk to OBX,if you want,you can return for refund.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sean Molloy
Thankyou for your response. I have a lot of pictures. I don’t want them to get lost in the spam filters so Ill go light but you may ask for more if you cant see what you need

I shrunk the file size. If you want higher resolution, let me know.

There are 2 critical angles to observe. Notice the oval port opening and how the mounting tabs relate to the oval position
I have used an SSI brand heat exchanger in the photo as a reference to illustrate the oval position vs the mounting tab position
Regards, Sean M Molloy



I am sure they spent a good chunk of money to get these made. Solving the assembly problem would help recover those costs. The 914 community needs a reasonably priced header like the OBX. The refund offer is good customer service, thank you. the header looks promising. There are quite a few guys on 914world.com, 914club.com and pelicanparts.com that seem to be waiting for a review on this product. I haven’t said anything yet. I told my customers to bring them over and I would see what we could do. A good assembly fixture would solve the fitment problems.
I look forward to hearing what OBX says.

Regards, Sean M Molloy

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 8 2011, 02:02 AM

should have psted it backwards or read it bottom to top

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 8 2011, 02:08 AM

am I wrong here? should I bit the bullit and pay for the return shipping inthe hopes that a refund will come?

I wish I had phone transcripts from teh various calls that go with this email string. there are more emails I did not post here yet.

Posted by: edwin Jan 8 2011, 05:27 AM

A big thanks to sean to posting your findings with this header.
I was seriously looking into getting one of these and am very hapy i waited.
I hope your posting this up doesnt harm your case for refund but you seem to have done all the right things and have been screwed.
Hope it goes well.
Edwin

Posted by: nsr-jamie Jan 8 2011, 07:19 AM

Tangerine all the way for me!! Thats the way I want to go, but just can't afford it now, the exhaust cost more than my entire car when I bought it in the early 1990's, but from what I heard from others everybody seems really pleased. It would be incredible to see an awesome Tangerine exhaust kit go for around the $ 995 dollar mark if this is possible...

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 8 2011, 07:22 AM

You're wasting your time Sean.

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 8 2011, 08:03 AM

I just priced up fabricating a custom exhaust for a (Porsche 993 bodied) mid-engined 6 cyl. race car at over $10K.
The Tangerine EVO exhaust is a bargain at the current price. and is likely to get more expensive in the near future. If I can't earn a buck making them they won't be available to anyone.

Why would the price you paid for the car almost 20 years ago have anything to do with how much you're willing to spend on premium performance parts for the car now?

Posted by: URY914 Jan 8 2011, 09:15 AM

Someone needs to pay this asshat a visit and talk to the guy in person.

Posted by: SCV Jan 8 2011, 09:24 AM

+1. Can't say I'm surprised, but they should pay return shipping for their product that was defective right out of the box.

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 8 2011, 09:35 AM

I have seen what goes into making a custom exhaust like what Tangerine racing offers. I have installed Chris' header before on customer cars and saw bob butler make the headers for teh Herkilis twin turbo project. at the price foley sells it is a bargain and the dyno doesnt lie

Posted by: r_towle Jan 8 2011, 09:54 AM

Sean,

What does the collector look like (pics) and are there any slip fittings on that OBX unit, or is that thing welded up solid and that far off?

Rich

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 8 2011, 10:33 AM

the obx racing parts depot porsche 914 header has a slip fit collector. there are 2 major problems. the first is teh alignment of teh attachment tabs relative t the oval shape or the exhaust port. the clocking is off. wrong aproach angle to the head mounting flanges


Attached image(s)

Posted by: jimkelly Jan 8 2011, 10:40 AM

i am sure there is a diff in price - but having header stubs has got to be a very valuable plus as the heads studs don't like to the FFFFed with too much.

Posted by: 914rat Jan 8 2011, 10:52 AM

Sean I agree with Chris you are wasting your time.The Chinese business culture is to deny all problems and make it up with cheap prices and exchanges.It appears from the email exchange you are dealing with someone from another culture.

Chris do you still sell the economy version of the Tangerine with the Magna Flow muffler?

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 8 2011, 11:24 AM

Yes.

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 8 2011, 08:59 PM

Sean, PM sent to you ...check it out . This may help with your satisfaction quest.
Marty

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 8 2011, 09:39 PM

Sean, those are definitely counterfeits of our MSDS type 4 headers that we build for A/A. Am I impressed that they copied them ...absolutely not. When Weapon -R (OBX's buddies) counterfeited the MSDS V6 Ford shorty headers , we spent lots of cash in court to get a cease and desist. Same thing like your dilema: Good parts aren't cheap / and Cheap parts aren't good. Everyone that bought the fake V6 headers had dangerous exhaust leaks, egr's that didn't align, and countless "Fix-it" forums with Home Depot parts
Go to any SEMA show and you will be amazed by how many creepy businesses are allowed into this organization, that prey upon their fellow members, at the blind eye of the SEMA directors. Hope you get satisfaction, it will take some doing.
Marty

Posted by: patssle Jan 8 2011, 10:06 PM

I wish my Euro headers still looked that nice! Mine came with the car and have a ton of surface rust. Installed by a PO, probably about 5 years ago? I need to take them off and clean them up.

Posted by: Sawfish Jan 11 2011, 06:10 PM

Any word back from the fine folks (rats) at OBX?

Posted by: Dr Evil Jan 11 2011, 10:26 PM

Obviously a native English speaker.

Posted by: aircooledtechguy Jan 12 2011, 02:10 PM

Ahh, brings back memories from when I lived in the Philippines years ago dealing with vendors. It's a simple 3 step process really. . .

1. You begin a conversation with the person but they are only using half their brain.

2. Half way through the conversation that half goes to sleep and the other half takes over.

3. Go back to step #1

Good Luck with that one.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 12 2011, 02:58 PM

Either pay for the CFR and get quality or buy the ccc and get nothing. (cheap chinese crap) They copied someone's design and did a cheap knockoff According to Marty Schneider it does not fit very well, and they did not do much research about hp like Chris did.

Posted by: Walter Jan 12 2011, 03:05 PM

@Marty: just for interest sake: what is the outside diameter of the header pipes and wall thickness?

Thanks,
Walter

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 12 2011, 03:58 PM

I also have a Eurorace on my car, and have been fighting poor quality control on it for ages. Chris and I have talked a few times at Hershey, and I wish I could spring for his system, but alas I am poor and have too many irons in the fire.

If you decide to go Eurorace, be prepped to fight with BIG leaks at the slip fit collector. I have been able to cure them for short runs with high temp silllycone. One of the pipes needs to be expended almost 1/8 of an inch to get a tight seal against the collector. It is very poor craftsmanship IMHO, and is on my list of things to fix this winter.

I think that the Eurorace can be made to work, but you need to be ready to fuck with it, and will want to cut off the Turbo muffler and weld on something quieter. Otherwise, you sound like a pissed off hillbilly on a big lawnmower shooting a shotgun during power downshifts.

For $400 more then what I paid for the Eurorace, I could have bought on of Chris's econo systems. Every time I think about getting under the car, I wish that is exactly what I had done.

Zach

Posted by: 914rat Jan 12 2011, 04:05 PM

Way to put it all in perspective Zach.I'm sure someone could take a cutoff wheel and a torch and screw with the OBX header and make it work until it needed screwing with again.It amazes me that in every industry the china crap keeps coming over and filling our land fills and emptying our wallets.

Posted by: charliew Jan 12 2011, 06:10 PM

My son had a obx header on his sti suby and it was great. If the price is right I actually don't mind cutting and welding a decent ss header to make it better in my projects but of course it shouldn't be the norm and I would be pissed if the communication from the distributor was like that. It would be nice to find out if the others are that screwed up. Obx helical diffs for the suby tranny seem ok, the bolts and washers look a little cheap though. This is a good place to educate the community about the supplier.

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 13 2011, 02:55 AM

it is not possible to bolt up the OBX Porsche 914 header. the fit is not close enough.

Posted by: scotty b Jan 13 2011, 06:30 AM

first off I am in NO WAY defending these assholes, but Ican assure you guys. this issues is not limited to the 914 market, nor is it limited to inexpensive chinese knock offs. I have installed 5-6 sets of headers on american cars ( trucks ) and have only had ONE set that fit well out of the box. these were name brands, Edelbrock and Hookers. the worst were the set I put on my suburban that I actually had to cut a section out and weld in an inverted piece to clear the spring hangers, I also on that same set had to RUIN the ceramic coating I paid extra for by taking a rosebud tip to both sides and heat each pipe cherry red in order to flex the whole header out and away from the frame

Like Chris said, you get what you pay for in this industry. Price a set of B.B. headers for a 930 or 951

Posted by: charliew Jan 13 2011, 08:13 AM

On my 4x4's I remember on a couple of occasions I used a jack to move the header over and up to get it where I wanted it.

Posted by: Woody Jan 13 2011, 09:49 AM

Now that everybody has chimed in I can say I wouldn't give OBX my money just out of principal. A Tangerine may be in my future but it will take me a while to get there. Thanks everyone for the replies.

Posted by: sawtooth Jan 13 2011, 10:45 AM

I know its a different application, but I have OBX stainless equal length headers on my 914 suby conversion and so far they seem to be very good quality. So I guess it just depends on the application.

Posted by: charliew Jan 13 2011, 10:52 AM

My son switched to a perrin header. I don't remember his reason but he gave me the obx and I shortened it at all the ports a lot and changed it some but it still works with the uppipe to the turbo. It's now only about 4.625 deep from the pan rail. It goes with a 8qt pan I built thats also 4.625 deep. I will need to come up with a new oil cooler/warmer though. It was a lot of work but I kinda like making things.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 13 2011, 10:56 AM

You hit it on the money. Deny is right. THEN they never warranty anything just say "buy more and we will give you a few free ones for every hundred or so you buy"
Different culture for sure.

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 14 2011, 07:48 AM

Walter, we build these with U.S.A. cold roll mandrel bent steel tube with a .060 wall thickness, and a tube size of 1.5" od The mating stub (direct) coming out of the T4 cylinder port is formed from .125 c/r steel. These are built on jigs, and then assembled on to a T4 engine before coating/ shipping. Any deviations caused by thermal stresses of welding can be caught at this point and corrected if needed. Headers are fully warranteed (racing included) for 1 year. Auto Atlanta has developed these on their race car, and George has good success on engines up thru 2.2 L with his design.
It's no secret: a coated set of mild steel headers will outlive the CCC low grade (but very shiny) obx stainless headers .
Watch A/A 's site for a huge T4 header sale , at "Knock off prices" but you get the REAL DEAL made in the USA goods
Marty

Posted by: Walter Jan 14 2011, 09:23 AM

Thanks for that Marty, but I actually ws curieus to the OD pipe diameter of the OBX headers. Are they 1,5" with 0.060 wall as well?

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 15 2011, 12:44 PM

My hands on experience looking at various OBX headers at trade shows and various JDM auto parts storefronts here in SoCal ( with names ending with toyz, boyz or customz), indicates tubing made friom 18 gauge materials. This includes the collector also. 18 gauge is thinner than 16 gauge (.060), which explains why the system will fail early in its life expectancy. Combine this with the cheapest grade stainless steel (non ASTM spec) from the pacific rim sources...and you are the proud owner of an exhaust system with the life span of the former Cheyrnoble nuclear plant.
How to avoid this ? Just keep off the Buy Button and just say NO to the cheap bait priced online storz. Buy any "Made in the USA" exhaust products...these usually come with a thing called a guarantee !
Attached are my thoughts on this ...
Walter, I can not tell you the tube OD or tube gauge of the OBX...you will need to speak to their Tech/ QC dept. for an answer

Posted by: Walter Jan 15 2011, 01:56 PM

Yeah, sorry, I thought you had one there, but the question is probably better directed at 'Sean V8 914' who had one in his hands.
Sorry for the confusion.

Posted by: silver74insocal Jan 15 2011, 03:30 PM

wow maltese why dont you just tell us how you REALLy feel...this guy is just trying to get the most bang for his buck....flame suit activate!!

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 15 2011, 03:56 PM

Silver,
as goes the "Bang for the buck" philosophy: for a bit more Euro, the customer can get a proper fitting system. For a little bit more- than- that Euro, he can opt for the top of the line system, also built and offered here by a 914world member.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with being frugal, but I can't spend my time installing anything cheap that requires a hammer. torch and machine shop. No flame intended, and nothing more O/T from Falcon .

Posted by: Walter Jan 15 2011, 04:12 PM

No offense taken Marty; I used to have a complete 1 7/8" system from Chris on my 2.7ltr (believe it was even the first sold 1 7/8" back then), so I know the quality.
I went turbo, so a small diameter stainless header (even 304 is way better imo then coated or worse) is more appropiate for this and frankly, if you have build a custom engine, to have to make it fit is not much of a problem. Doing mandrel bends however is.
Its the only stainless system out there afaik as Chris doesn't do stainless and boy have I asked him more then once to pls do so ;-) Hence the interest.
Even for the materials alone, you can hardly go wrong with that price imo if your handy, but I understand also your resentness of chinese products, but thats a completely different topic I think.

Posted by: Sawfish Jan 15 2011, 09:57 PM

Let me start this post by first saying that I am in NO WAY questioning the quality or value of the Tangerine headers. Their reputation for quality and performance is uneqalled within the 914 community.
That being said when someone asks about an inexpensive header, quality, fitment or suggestions about how to resolve and issue with a header or vendor...its not always useful to tell them to buy the best header on the market. The pay now or pay later rational can only go so far. Taken to its logical extreme it make as much sense as saying "well you should have bought a GT-3, you get what you pay for!" Ive seen it a hundred times those 914s are under powered blah blah blah...

IF the OBX header had fit or IF the company had honored their warranty as they promisised. it would have provided an inexpensive alternative at %13 of the cost and probably les than %13 percent of the performance.
It didnt. The folks at OBX are Dishonest. Thats the issue.

Not being able to afford the best of something does not make a person cheap or stupid.

Truth is we have a trade deficit with China because consumers have decided that they wont be too pissed off if their toaster breaks after three months if they can buy another one for $15 bucks.

My two cents

Posted by: 914rat Jan 16 2011, 03:38 PM

We are exporting dollars and importing trash.The american consumer is to blame simply because we continue to embrace price as the prime copmponent of value.As a society we don't care if it works as long as it's cheap.Then we compare the stuff that works to the stuff that dosen't and expect it to be similarly priced.The OBX IMO is priced according to it's value as long as the buyer is willing to re-engineer it to make it work.I'm staying with SS heat exchangers and my bursh muffler until I find something I like better for a price I can afford.It won't be an OBX.I will save my money and buy a Tangerine.Even the economy version is better value than the next step down.First I need an engine worthy of such a system.

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 18 2011, 07:57 AM

I now have my own NC tubing bender Wally.
Once I have more die sets I'll probably start doing some exhaust systems in stainless.

Posted by: Walter Jan 18 2011, 03:59 PM

Actually Chris - and sorry to anyone else for going OT a bit - at the moment, I think your 4-2-1 header would make an awesome twin-scroll turbo header if you left the last 2-1 part of and made it in stainless!
Turbo would then be at the rear and a downpipe would actually fit under the rear apron!
Since its for turbo, this time it would just be 1 5/8" primaries from the heads and not the silly size this one was ;-)

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 18 2011, 08:58 PM

We're about to start a 6 cyl. project with 2" primaries using T321 stainless.
I think we could fabricate what you have in mind.

Posted by: charliew Jan 19 2011, 11:31 AM

The obx headers I cut up were at least as thick as all the other headers I have used in the past and they were a good stainless as they were on my son's car a year or more and didn't get any worse than any other ss headers I have. Turbo headers get more heat and stress than na headers. He ran 26 psi and that means more than 26 psi up to the turbo with red hot tubes at the head ports.

Posted by: Piledriver Jun 5 2011, 06:44 PM

Failure to do QC is not strictly a Chinese issue.

Also, the thought of dropping $1500 on a Tangerine header and then cutting it up to make a turbo header is abhorrent, no one in their right mind would go there.

At a $500+ price point, I would expect/demand a perfect fit, certainly at $1K++.
At $250 for 304SS... I'd expect to have to fight with it.

I have personally seen (repeatedly) the same clocking issue on the "made in the USA" EMW 411 HX replacement pipes, as an example.

Having said that, one user on the STF reported recently that his EMW HX replacements bolted on and sealed... Somebody should buy Jorge a beer.

Not everyone is willing or able to drop 1/1.5K into a mild steel exhaust system, no matter how good it is.

A1 makes an excellent system that compares well for considerably less, and will do it in SS for about 40% more, still about the same $ as a mild steel "economy" CFR.

I'm looking for a turbo header, the 304 SS is fine, OBX turbo headers on Subys have a reasonable good reputation, and the tubing is usually one piece CNC bent, no welds every 6 inches issues with cracking.

It's unfortunate the 914 market is so small, the issue will almost certainly not be fixed. I't's probably safe to assume Stubs will need to be added at least, fortunately they are easy to make from 1 5/8" material.

Chris will have no issues keeping busy selling his top end systems, there are plenty of folks who have plenty of money for quality.
Hopefully he won't have to resort to making only the few dozen 934 custom header systems sold in a decade.

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 1 2012, 12:02 PM

summary refresher for 2012:
OBX AKA Racing Parts Depot in Oakland CA are dishonorable crooks. the header is crap. it will NEVER fit. OBX will not honor any returns, refunds or exchanges.
Happy New Year!

Posted by: Walter Jan 1 2012, 12:33 PM

^^ +1 The header does not even go over the T4 headstuds! LOL!
The tubing is very nice, as are the welds, but the ears for mounting it are in the wrong position in more then one way. The 4-1 piece is also not really flow friendly.
It is pretty pathetic as an exhaust system as such indeed.
Still that was almost to be expected and for a bunch of nice stainless tubing in the size I wanted and in sort-off the position bend I was looking for, it'll do just fine :-)

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 1 2012, 01:39 PM

For the price you are getting exactly what you pay for. I never understand why people are disappointed with the quality of cheap junk; it is to be expected.

Posted by: Sawfish Dec 9 2013, 04:48 PM

Its almost a new year lest we forget!

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 10 2013, 08:00 AM

have you ever looked into the Triad headers for a 4?

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Dec 10 2013, 10:23 PM

Any manufacturer here that has had any of their parts counterfeited by obx, PM me for a top notch IPR counsel.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 11 2013, 05:12 PM

I'm having my OBX headers shipped directly to Motormeister so they can install them there while they're building my race motor.

Posted by: r_towle Dec 11 2013, 05:44 PM

They may need your car to ensure the headers fit properly.
Get on that.

While you are at it, did you send the machine part to stromberg?

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 12 2013, 08:18 AM

? seriously? i wouldn't be surprised if thats the case.

Posted by: Literati914 Sep 9 2019, 09:46 PM

Sorry for resurrecting this old thread but:

After reading this horror story of fitment issues with OBX headers on a 914 (along with some good experiences w/ other models actually) ... I have a chance to buy a set of OBX headers in nice looking 304 stainless. I can get them for around 2 bills shipped, which normally would be really cheap for such nice stainless. They've never been installed (wonder why ) and are made of really nice looking 304 stainless. So, if going into it fully expecting issues - do you guys think it's worth it, knowing that I may have to cut them just under the tabs and re-clocked them, have em re-welded (if necessary)?

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 9 2019, 09:52 PM

You've read all the posts and you are still thinking about buying them?

If that wasn't enough ...

Posted by: 73-914 Sep 9 2019, 10:07 PM

Some people just can't be helped

Posted by: Literati914 Sep 9 2019, 10:39 PM

Um yea, 'cause I would not be paying retail and also would not be expecting the quality that one should receive if paying retail either. - and 'cause cutting and re-welding 4 small pipes doesn't seem like a big a deal to me! I'm not apposed to some fab work in general.

Where else you gonna find another $200 header - much less a pretty stainless one that'll last forever? It's probably not perfect .. and, so it needs a little work - but does that mean it's complete trash?



We're not all as wise and rich as you, I'm sure

Posted by: bretth Sep 10 2019, 12:06 AM

I actually have a set that I bought off of another member for similar reasons to you. I wanted to try some of my own fab work on them. But the set I got had the header end cut off and a nice set of stub ends with bolt on flanges fitted already. Unfortunately I actually have not installed them yet but they do look good with the current alterations. The previous owner had used them on a race engine for a time. And like you I have never seen a set of stainless headers for the 914 other than the old SSI exchangers.

Posted by: porschetub Sep 10 2019, 01:17 AM

No point in getting shitty about it,all replies have come from the best around,if $200 go for it,when you cut it up don't for a minute think it will line up and seal...……….

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Sep 10 2019, 04:21 AM

Not knocking your purchase in terms of be a savvy & frugal enthusiast, but you might want to read up on Crystallization stresses on Stainless Steel. In this case, especially with super thin 18 ga. (last obx we examined), offshore SS alloys usually contaminated with "Other stuff" ; tubing mills are not held to Western/ nor Euro standards. Your tubes may require patchwork in their lifetime.

Posted by: barefoot Sep 10 2019, 05:33 AM

If you're going to cut & weld on them, you MUST provide purge gas to the inside of the joints otherwise you'll get oxidation on the inside of thru penetration butt welds which will lead to cracking & joint failure. We X-rayed all butt welds where i worked.
That's an industry standard

Posted by: Literati914 Sep 10 2019, 07:12 AM

This is what I'd considered too, probably the best bet 'cause then I actually could "expect them to seal" (right porschetub?).





Ok, I've taken note and will research that a bit.. still though, the price could possibly offset the concern, no?





That's a good point.. I'd probably have a professional do the work (one of the race shops over by Texas Motor Speedway) do the work.. but then that kicks the cost up too. So, that's why I'm even asking the question. It comes down to this: at what price point does it make it worth the effort? $220 shipped is what I've been quoted.

Posted by: mepstein Sep 10 2019, 07:18 AM

I would start off with the right parts. They will assemble easily and correctly. They will also have value if you ever sell them. It’s always more expensive to buy cheap crap, modify and then buy the good stuff you wish you bought the first time.

Posted by: VaccaRabite Sep 10 2019, 07:24 AM

How cheap is your fab guy? At shop hours a day of work cutting and welding these to fit would end up costing you the same as one of Chris's systems.

If you are doing the welding yourself, that is the only way you are going to save money with these.

Zach

Posted by: Literati914 Sep 10 2019, 07:31 AM

Hey Eric - did your set of OBX headers also turn out to be a nightmare for Motormeister to install... or did you make this comment in jest ?

Posted by: mb911 Sep 10 2019, 07:32 AM

All good points.. I can't even sell you flanges and elbows for that price and we have a mandrel cnc bender on site.. Are they high quality =no are they inexpensive=yes, will they last forever=no.. The stainless is likely 200 series and also its multi pass welds on 18 ga which will cause carbide precipitation and ultimately cracking and rusting.. That said for the price you can mess with it and report back long term.. I think that will help a bunch for future potential buyers.

Posted by: bdstone914 Sep 10 2019, 08:02 AM

You can lead a person to knowledge but you can't make them think.

Posted by: Literati914 Sep 10 2019, 09:38 AM

But, but.. you did just read this one guy's experience, right? and you mean to tell us, you still bought one? Man, what would Bruce Stone say?



Not exactly constructive, actually a little insulting tbh, and for no reason. I don't get that, but if it makes you feel better about yourself.. it's cool.



Yea Bruce Stone, you sure are helpful too. You stick to that group think, it's safe.

But I get it, the group's opinion is "I wouldn't take one of these if they were giving them away !!" . Not sure why I dared to think differently, I shall fall in line.

Posted by: mepstein Sep 10 2019, 10:15 AM

Remember, we are mostly middle age men on this site. A group not exactly known for their tact or correctness. But it's all between friends who want each other to succeed with their cars.

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 10 2019, 11:34 AM

I don't blame you for not getting the joke. Just search "Motormeister" here and Eric's post will make a lot more sense.

Again, there is a reason why people don't use them (both OBX and Motormeister).

If you don't want to learn from other people's mistakes that's fine. It's your time and money.

But please don't get all pissy at people who have the knowledge and are trying to help you.

Posted by: jd74914 Sep 10 2019, 02:15 PM

That's a good point, they could be 202 or something which is somewhat intentionally difficult to differentiate from 304.

At $200 you could make our reasonably well just using them for parts if you have the skills to rework them. I considered buying a set a few years ago to cut apart and use the bends (since they looked clean), but never did because I just didn't have the time.

Posted by: Literati914 Sep 10 2019, 03:19 PM

WOW - I am truely shocked. Instead of constructive help, I get nothing but negativity and RUDE comments from SirAndy, Garry 73-914, porschetub and Bruce Stone ... you telling me those guys were trying to help me? Then you tell ME, I'm being pissy? I actually bit my tongue with replies. If it's the imoji you have a problem with, why's it available? BTW, I notice you didn't make any such comments to the others - so me defending myself is obviously the problem. Says something about you imho. I'll be more careful in the future not to offend y'all I guess.

Posted by: mb911 Sep 10 2019, 03:58 PM

I am now without words.. Please let us know how they work. Lets get some real data.

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 10 2019, 04:15 PM

You got PLENTY of constructive help in this thread, you just don't want to hear it.

Posted by: Literati914 Sep 10 2019, 04:54 PM

Look Andy, you just made my quote look like I was saying nobody gave constructive help... you should have added the rest of it (it named you and 3 others)! It's easy to say it won't work, but you guys offer no reason.

Yes, I certainly did get constructive and helpful comments - specifically from bretth, maltese falcon, barefoot, mepstein, vaccarabite, mb911 and jd74914... and these guys were not exactly cheering me on either, which is not what I was after and I appreciate the thought that went into THEIR posts. Thanks everyone. If I go thru with the purchase and am not able to modify them to a useful state, then it's my own fault and I can not say I wasn't warned. If I am able to make them work, but they don't last a lifetime - that's understood too. I haven't made up my mind yet on the purchase - why I was asking for thoughts, in the first place. I'll update if/when I get them. thanks again.

Posted by: Literati914 Feb 19 2020, 11:51 PM

OK, gonna , bear with me folks. I was contacted by a member here asking what my experience was with the OBX headers (after research and reading this thread I'm sure). I told him I'd send him some pics but I figured I'd just post in this thread for a general update.

The fact is I bought the OBX headers 5 months back, quickly turned my spare 2056 'GA' engine up-side-down and loosely installed the headers - loosely 'cause a couple exhaust studs were missing. Then I basically forgot about this engine/exhaust set up so I could concentrate on other things, building a fence, and doing rust repair work on my 914 project - here and there, etc. BTW, I was told by the seller that these were new, never used.. but they were obviously used - the stainless had been heat cycled several times and the color had gone a gold/purple (as stainless exhausts will do). This didn't bother me, I saw it as a good sign - they'd actually been mounted to a type IV !

Anyway, now I've replaced those missing exhaust studs and bolted up the header tightly and shot some pics. BTW, the OD of the primaries are 38mm/1.5".

Some notes about installation: I had to install cylinders in this order: #4,#3,#1,#2.. and actually #4 & #3 needed to be started at the same time (slip over the studs simultaneously), otherwise they would foul each other.
https://postimg.cc/34LGW43Phttps://postimages.org/
https://postimg.cc/ctnJZrC7
https://postimg.cc/pyzxWNkB
One with the collector installed:
https://postimg.cc/qtNVWWzy

Here's a shot with the Stainless Sport Muffler I picked up:https://postimg.cc/cK3ZrV0Z

I had hoped it would just fit, no drama .. but it's off by about 1/2" , and the flange needs to be clocked - close but no cigar. My luck. https://postimg.cc/F18Zx8Qw

So, as you can see.. while some (most ) OBX headers have a fitment issue, not all do, as I'd suspected. I got em so cheap, I'd been ok if work was needed - I'm pleased with these so far but of course I haven't fired the engine up with them either. I just wanted to up date the group, answer any questions or comments.

Posted by: barefoot Feb 20 2020, 06:44 AM

Installed with the muffler bolted solid to the tranny you're gonna have thermal stress issues with differential thermal expansion. The exhaust is gonna grow in length lots more than the engine & tranny cases, so you have to have compliant coupling at the muffler just like the standard 914 muffler hangers. They allow the system to grow axially with heat.

Posted by: mb911 Feb 20 2020, 06:57 AM

The merge is slip so that will accommodate the expansion and contraction..

Posted by: Literati914 Feb 20 2020, 09:25 AM

Hmm, I can't say who made this particular stainless muffler, I suspect it's an early tangerine unit - never the less tangerine does currently offer mufflers with similar mounting brackets as mine (that bolt directly to the trans). These things are usually thought thru before bringing to market. I haven't read of issues So, I'm hoping your prediction is off. On the other hand.. I could cut that bracket off and fab up some smaller side mounts to match up to the stock bracket I have laying around.




There is an attachment bracket built on to the stainless collector, that keeps the whole unit from slipping. I hadn't considered leaving it un-bolted, but maybe that's the best option? Maybe I should install a spring or two? Do you think there'd be any negative to slipping that collector south a bit and taking up my 1/2" gap ?
https://postimg.cc/7b03wZ2Z