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Posted by: F4i May 1 2004, 11:00 PM

I have #140 welt. rear springs. Bilstiens all around (older but good) No rear sway bar. Stock front bar. My original T bars are rusty. I have a set of new 22 mm T bars but I am concerned this will make for an understeer/stiff ride. Any thoughts on the matter? How bad would it be? Is it worth a try? Thanks.

Posted by: 4WheelDrifter May 1 2004, 11:55 PM

How does the car feel now? Probably oversteer with the stock t-bars and stiff rear springs. Since you already have the 22mm t-bars, put them in! Can always remove them, not like it's hard getting freshly installed parts out again. Understeer is usually preferred anyway.

The ride will be stiffer with the 22mm from the stock 17+mm bars. Maybe someone can trade for a set of 21mm t-bars.

Don't forget t-bar seals. http://www.smartcart.com/Paragon/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=914TBS

Posted by: ChrisReale May 2 2004, 12:07 AM

I have 22mm Torsions and 200# rear springs. Makes it about even. You are prolly going to experience some plowing

Posted by: seanery May 2 2004, 07:31 AM

Chris, I need front bars for blue car. I've got yellow konis with adjustable perches and 200#s in the rear. So you like 22mm? Bluecar isn't gonna be driven on the street, would you go higher or is 22 a good all round match?

Posted by: F4i May 2 2004, 09:20 AM

I should also add that I have not driven the car in several years. It is nearly finished its rustoration. The rear springs I had bought and the T bars came with a parts lot I purchased from a guy. so thats why the odd combo. They are installed but I do not want to get two alignments if I don't like it. Anyone want to trade or have a better solution? #200 springs in the back? The car is only a 4 cyl 2.0 90% street driven. Thanks for the input thus far.

Posted by: 4WheelDrifter May 2 2004, 09:29 AM

Measure ride height before you start replacing the bars. Measure the height on a flat surface like a garage floor. Replacing t-bars and setting the height to the same as before the replacement won't affect alignment.

200lb springs will be a rough ride on the street I'd think. If you want to keep the current ride comfort, find some stock t-bars in good condition then.

Posted by: Dave_Darling May 2 2004, 11:56 AM

Stock torsion bars, 140 rear springs, and a ~19mm adjustable aftermarket front sway bar. Works pretty well as a combination.

I think the 200 lb/in springs will be too stiff for daily-driver duties, but others disagree.

--DD

Posted by: Aaron Cox May 2 2004, 12:20 PM

i have a 2 really good looking sets out of 4 banger cars. ~18mm i believe.

lemme know,

Aaron

Posted by: J P Stein May 2 2004, 12:34 PM

I'm with Dave.

The 140/stock T bars are a good combo (street/AX) setup. I have a set of stockers in good shape. Free +shipping.......free iu gud.

Posted by: ChrisReale May 2 2004, 12:34 PM

Sean, I think the 22mm torsion bar, 200# spring and 22 or 23mm sway up front is a great match. If it is a track car(like, more road race than autocross) I might consider going a bit heavier up front, maybe 23mm torsions...

Posted by: seanery May 2 2004, 12:46 PM

hey, is your car done? I thought there was an a/x today?

Posted by: ChrisReale May 2 2004, 01:11 PM

It runs, but it needs to be fine tuned. Waiting on Brad and his lap-top...

Posted by: seanery May 2 2004, 01:45 PM

kit carlson FI?

Posted by: ChrisReale May 2 2004, 02:28 PM

Yes. It is a great set-up. Kinda hard to make it look nice cause of the copious ammount of wires, but it gets rid of the mechanical TPS and the MPS.

Posted by: F4i May 2 2004, 02:32 PM

Thanks for all the feedback. I have sent a few PM's. Ithink stock is gud for now (cheaper too). If I want to get fancy later I can put in th 22's and get #200 springs. Have you run that setup long Chris?

Posted by: ChrisReale May 2 2004, 04:36 PM

Posted by: J P Stein May 2 2004, 05:31 PM

I have 21mms at front and 225# at rear.
I just moved my AR bar another 1/2 in softer. If/when it hits the end, I'll go to 250#.
Still searching for the elusive balance I like.

Posted by: 4WheelDrifter May 2 2004, 05:49 PM

Since F4i is set, I hope he doesn't mind if I hijack this thread.

I have in my 914 what the PO believes are stock t-bars, 130lb rear springs. Also 195/65-15 Yoko AVS tires on Mahles, no sway bars and Boge orange shocks.

The car oversteers predicably but earlier than I'd like with this set-up. I'll be doing more street and a little auto-x. I'd like to balance the handling out if possible. I haven't played with tire pressures either so this might help. New tires are coming next season. I know it's easier to install thicker t-bars than to install a sway bar but I want to do it right. Would jumping from stock to 21mm t-bars create more understeer than desired? Would it be better to leave it alone and just add a front swaybar? Are the 21mm t-bars and 165lb springs a good match? Can the Boge orange shocks handle the stiffer rate of the 21mm t-bars and 165lb springs?



Thanks a bunch!

Posted by: Racer Chris May 3 2004, 06:41 AM

Jim,
My first choice would be to add a front adjustable sway bar. You can fine tune the car's balance that way. Since the car doesn't already have a bar, it is a bit of work to install one properly.

Posted by: 4WheelDrifter May 3 2004, 07:33 AM

Chris,

I figured a sway bar was the best way to go but not doing that now. I'll wait until the get the car torn down for the resto and have it done then. Thanks for the input. I'll just let it all hang out for now.

Posted by: trekkor May 3 2004, 07:57 AM

I'm in the same spot. Not happy with stock.
( Or blown shocks )
Brad is setting the package for my car that should get me my *fix*.

f/r Koni yellows ( rears on last night )
150-175# springs
23mm torsion bars
31mm Smart Camber front sway
stock rear sway

Very expensive. What can one do?

I'm thinking about starting a " my evolving suspension " thread.

Posted by: pcar_914_6 May 3 2004, 04:20 PM

My compromise car has been streetable for lot's of years and I like it with the following setup.

Weight: 2250# with me in it. Fuel load and oil cooler are between and slightly in front of, the front tires in the bottom of the front compartment. Battery and fire bottle in the old fuel compartment

Front:
23mm torsions
22mm anti-sway (adjustable)
Bilstien 911 struts and rotors
1.8 dgr neg. camber
225/50-16 tires

Rear:
200# adjustable-height coils
no anti-sway bar
Koni gas-adjustables
1.8 dgr neg. camber
245/45-16 tires

I have to work to get it to turn quickly at an AX but letting out the front anti-sway bar does wonders for the turn-in rate. Obviously I'm not an AX'r by anyone's measure but it's a blast to run them.

Slight understeer with throttled oversteer when needed. The ride-stiffness is acceptable to me but Dave Darling rode quite a few miles in it last Fall and will be more objective than I on passenger comfort. I don't notice it 'cause I'm deaf and numb!

Ron

Posted by: Racer Chris May 3 2004, 05:22 PM

Posted by: Travis Neff May 3 2004, 05:47 PM

I have koni sports all around, rear adjustable perches with 150lb springs, just installed 22mm front torsion bars and NO swaybar(s).

I haven't driven it much, but I can get oversteer in a slow corner by stomping on the gas around a corner, and understeer while off the gas - sorta neutral. My guess is you will be fine.

I was thinking I would need dental work upgrading from stock to 22mm torsion bars, but that is not the case at all. Maybe with a sway bar one wheel dips might be a little harsher, I dunno.

Posted by: F4i May 20 2004, 06:47 PM

Just want to say thanks to JP. Awesome! Got the bars. Like new and packaged better than some of the parts houses I order from.

Posted by: J P Stein May 20 2004, 07:27 PM

I shipped a guy a crank & rods .....24./2.7L...never shoulda solt em'.
Anyhew, I attached instructions to the box I built bout the proper method for opening it

When he got the stuff, the guy wrote back raving about the box.....casually mentioned that the stuff inside was nice too

Posted by: F4i May 20 2004, 08:44 PM

Maybe e-bay and high volume parts houses are to blame. Stuff gets shipped very poorly sometimes. Its nice to see someone care about my new part as much as I do. They are going in tonight.

Posted by: F4i May 20 2004, 08:49 PM

This is OT but it remindes me of a funny story. A friend of mine works rock concerts. Setup, teardown, lights, etc. If the last guys did a really crappy job of packing up my frien and crew pack everything very nicely and send it back after the concert. However they screw the boxes shut with robertson screws. Apparently this little invention has not quite caught on in the US. They do send a bit "enclosed in box" though