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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ fan removal
Posted by: ppetion Mar 20 2011, 09:03 AM
anyone know on the top of their head, what type and size tool i need to remove the fan on the 1.7?
Posted by: Sleepin Mar 20 2011, 09:34 AM
The same tool as the CVs IIRC. 8mm VW CV tool. 12 point I believe.
Posted by: vsg914 Mar 20 2011, 09:45 AM
The fan should be held on by three bolts. 13mm head. the hub is held on by one bolt. Could be 13mm or the 12point. I've seen both. The hub may or may not need a puller. there might be a black plastic nose cone over the hub bolt.
Posted by: SLITS Mar 20 2011, 09:49 AM
The same tool as the CVs IIRC. 8mm VW CV tool. 12 point I believe.
You should have had HONDO answer ....
Fasteners can be of any variety ... one is triple square as mentioned and the other can be a hex head or regular allen head ... depends on if the motor has been worked on.
Posted by: Racer Chris Mar 20 2011, 09:53 AM
We have the CV tool in stock.
Posted by: ppetion Mar 20 2011, 10:02 AM
I tried the tool that I used for the cv removal and that did not help. it was an 8 regular hex it seems to be too big. I am heading outr to get the 12 points as mentioned. thanks Chris, but yours is not gonna help me in NY right now. anything I should ask for other than 8mn 12 point hex?
Posted by: McMark Mar 20 2011, 10:05 AM
The 12pt tool is also known as a triple-square and as a 'serrated' bit. Those bolts are OE for an early fan.
Posted by: Jake Raby Mar 20 2011, 11:04 AM
The bolts could have been replaced with 6mm allen as well.
Posted by: ppetion Mar 20 2011, 11:30 AM
Thanks guys, I got the tool 8mn 12 points and the succer is out. now my next question is, what do I need to remoce the hub? any of you used some methos without a puller? if not what kind of puller?
the oil seems to come out of the front as shown in the picture. anyone know who carries that seal? there is also a coover on the 2nd picture. from my view it looks like I will need a gasket, what do you call that?
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Cupomeat Mar 20 2011, 12:11 PM
The arrow is pointing to the oil pump/case seal.
I'd think it was more likely your front crank seal than the oil pump.
I'd clean everything now (before you pull the impeller hub) then replace the front seal and go from there.
Pulling the oil pump without just cause (unless you plan to go further) is lots of work.
Good luck!
Posted by: ppetion Mar 20 2011, 12:50 PM
The arrow is pointing to the oil pump/case seal.
I'd think it was more likely your front crank seal than the oil pump.
I'd clean everything now (before you pull the impeller hub) then replace the front seal and go from there.
Pulling the oil pump without just cause (unless you plan to go further) is lots of work.
Good luck!
Hey Eric. Am I understanding this wrong? There are two pics the top one is the one with the leak. The piece that the impeller was attached to.isn't that the crankc seal?
Posted by: Cupomeat Mar 20 2011, 12:56 PM
Yes, my Bad, the first picture arrow is pointing to the front main seal and the bottom one, the oil pump.
Just replace the front main seal as that is likely the culprit.
I am red/green color blind and red arrows on pictures don't stand out to me as most people. I only saw the second one at first.
Humblest apologies... 
When you pull the impeller hub, look to see how chewed up the surface is that rides on the front main seal. If it is grooved, take some light emory or garnet paper and smooth it out before reinstalling. Last time I looked, they were NLA so treat yours nicely.
I hope that helps, and not adds to the confusion, as I did before.
Posted by: Cupomeat Mar 20 2011, 12:58 PM
As for how to pull the impeller hub, I used a 3 bolt puller and used bolts that actually mated with the impeller and crank bolts themsleves.
Sears sells it.
Posted by: ppetion Mar 20 2011, 01:27 PM
Thanks. For your help. And ni you did not ad to the confusion. It is appreciated.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Mar 20 2011, 03:52 PM
when you pull the hub, use a puller. And expect the hub to shoot across the room when it finally pops. Its on there with a lot of force.
Zach
Posted by: ppetion Mar 20 2011, 04:10 PM
when you pull the hub, use a puller. And expect the hub to shoot across the room when it finally pops. Its on there with a lot of force.
Zach
thanks. I will be tryng that in a few minutes.
Posted by: McMark Mar 20 2011, 04:13 PM
The factory method for removing the hub is to install a ~1/8" piece of flat steel, cut in a C shape, between the hub and the case. Then rethread the fan bolts and tighten them until they impact the steel C and keep tightening until it pops off. I made one awhile back and it's been a real time-saver.
Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 20 2011, 04:17 PM
Or, just put three thick pieces of metal behind the hub. Then screw in the fan bolts to pinch the metal between the bolt and the case, and tighten each bolt about a half-turn at a time. (You can use other bolts of the same size, of course.) That'll push the hub off. There's a Woodruff key behind it (a half-moon key) that will drop out and get lost almost instantly, so be prepared for that.
For the pieces of metal, the Cap'n recommends "church-key" bottle openers. I used fender washers, with the bolt end resting on the solid area of the washer rather than going through the hole. The point is to spread out the load so you don't damage the crankcase.
--DD
Posted by: ppetion Mar 20 2011, 10:19 PM
when you pull the hub, use a puller. And expect the hub to shoot across the room when it finally pops. Its on there with a lot of force.
Zach
you were right again, when it pops I was scared, thinking that I broke something..
Posted by: ppetion Mar 20 2011, 10:26 PM
Or, just put three thick pieces of metal behind the hub. Then screw in the fan bolts to pinch the metal between the bolt and the case, and tighten each bolt about a half-turn at a time. (You can use other bolts of the same size, of course.) That'll push the hub off. There's a Woodruff key behind it (a half-moon key) that will drop out and get lost almost instantly, so be prepared for that.
For the pieces of metal, the Cap'n recommends "church-key" bottle openers. I used fender washers, with the bolt end resting on the solid area of the washer rather than going through the hole. The point is to spread out the load so you don't damage the crankcase.
--DD
I read your post after i went and get a 45 bucks pulley, I didnt notice the half moon key you mentioned,,,,,,, is it always there on 1.7's or did i miss it. what happened if its missing?
Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 21 2011, 12:25 AM
As far as I know, all Type IVs used a Woodruff key between the nose of the crank and the crank hub. The PET calls it "woodruff key, 4 x 5", P/N N 012 708 2.
You can also try searching for it. It usually doesn't stay in the crank or with the hub.
--DD
Posted by: ppetion Mar 21 2011, 06:38 AM
I definitely didn't notice it and its not on the floor. What would hapen if its missing? Ate they also on the early engines )(1970). Shouldd I pull the hub out again or can I do a test to make sure the hub is fine. What is its purpose?
Posted by: Racer Chris Mar 21 2011, 10:15 AM
I definitely didn't notice it and its not on the floor. What would hapen if its missing? Ate they also on the early engines )(1970). Shouldd I pull the hub out again or can I do a test to make sure the hub is fine. What is its purpose?
It keeps the hub indexed on the crankshaft. Absolutely essential.
Posted by: ppetion Mar 21 2011, 10:24 AM
I definitely didn't notice it and its not on the floor. What would hapen if its missing? Ate they also on the early engines )(1970). Shouldd I pull the hub out again or can I do a test to make sure the hub is fine. What is its purpose?
It keeps the hub indexed on the crankshaft. Absolutely essential.
any picture on where it sits?
Posted by: Racer Chris Mar 21 2011, 10:35 AM
I definitely didn't notice it and its not on the floor. What would hapen if its missing? Ate they also on the early engines )(1970). Shouldd I pull the hub out again or can I do a test to make sure the hub is fine. What is its purpose?
It keeps the hub indexed on the crankshaft. Absolutely essential.
any picture on where it sits?
No picture.
It rests in a round bottom groove in the tapered part of the crankshaft.
The hub has a long groove that fits over the key as you slide it onto the crank.
It only fits together one way.
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Mar 21 2011, 11:04 AM
If it's missing, you can't be sure you have the fan oriented so the timing mark is correct. It MUST be in perfect condition and in there, and the slot in the crank must be undamaged. Furthermore, you MUST replace the o-ring behind the hub!
The Cap'n
Posted by: ppetion Mar 21 2011, 11:11 AM
If it's missing, you can't be sure you have the fan oriented so the timing mark is correct. It MUST be in perfect condition and in there, and the slot in the crank must be undamaged. Furthermore, you MUST replace the o-ring behind the hub!
The Cap'n
i just went home and removed the crank from my spare engine to see if there was one, and it is the same thing, I dont see anything,
picture attached of all the items that I removed.. I am completely lost. what am i missing here?
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Mar 21 2011, 11:15 AM
I could be wrong, because it's hard to see, but it looks like the key is still in the crank at about the 2 o'clock position. Clean that taper up well before you put it back together. Both on the crank and on the hub.
The Cap'n
Posted by: ppetion Mar 21 2011, 11:30 AM
If it's missing, you can't be sure you have the fan oriented so the timing mark is correct. It MUST be in perfect condition and in there, and the slot in the crank must be undamaged. Furthermore, you MUST replace the o-ring behind the hub!
The Cap'n
i just went home and removed the crank from my spare engine to see if there was one, and it is the same thing, I dont see anything,
picture attached of all the items that I removed.. I am completely lost. what am i missing here?
SOB, you mean that gap looking thing that the locks the hub from spinning without the shaft? that thing don't even look like it can come out.
Thanks
Posted by: Racer Chris Mar 21 2011, 02:34 PM
That's a Woodruff key, sometimes called a half moon key.
Tap down on one end and the other end will come up.
Posted by: ppetion Mar 21 2011, 10:47 PM
That's a Woodruff key, sometimes called a half moon key.
Tap down on one end and the other end will come up.
thanks all, I am not sure what happened to the one on the good engine, I pulled the crank back and it was in fact missing... looked all the floor didnt find it. i am using the one from the spare engine. its a great thing that you mentioned it Cap'n.
after all thats why you are the Cap'n..
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Mar 22 2011, 07:11 AM
Yep, Cap beat me to it.
Its common to find them somewhat rusted into the hub. At least on the humid, salty East Coast it is. I did not know it was removable either until I knocked it loose cleaning everything one day.
Zach
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