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Posted by: morphenspectra May 8 2004, 12:07 PM

I just paid $2.20 gallon for gas, and the prices are still going up, every day the price goes up 3 or 4 cents.



Hiedi

Posted by: 415PB May 8 2004, 12:18 PM

I payed 2.53 a gallon today. This sucks

Posted by: Aaron Cox May 8 2004, 12:18 PM

at $220.00 i wouldnt be complaining about a couple cents increase

(i know you meant 2.20)

Posted by: morphenspectra May 8 2004, 12:20 PM

Got it fixed

Posted by: morphenspectra May 8 2004, 12:20 PM

now I don't feel so bad

Posted by: SirAndy May 8 2004, 12:36 PM

yupp, we're well above $2.50 here in CA ...

Andy

Posted by: Brad Roberts May 8 2004, 12:48 PM

Come get your car. Fuel filter was leaking that expensive gas.

I can see "Mad Max" in our near futur where people are fighting over gas.

They are royally fucking us. The govt. hasnt figured out that our economy goes into the toilet when we cannot move about.


B

Posted by: lapuwali May 8 2004, 12:50 PM

Sheesh. Pansies.

Gas prices in the UK hit 82p per litre yesterday, now that oil has hit $40 a barrel. Let's see now: $1.78 per pound, so that's $1.45 per litre. Roughly 3.8 liters per US gallon, so $5.50 per US gallon. I always seem to put 12-13 US gallons in my 914 a fill-up time, or about $70 v. about $30. And the UK is NOT the most expensive place for gas in Europe.

I remember a friend of mine complaining that when US gas prices broke $1/US gallon for the first time, that he'd have to give up his car.

Posted by: Brad Roberts May 8 2004, 12:59 PM

Europe has high gas because they TAX the shit out of it. Germany actually uses their gas tax money to fix the roads.. we piss ours away into welfare and other bottomless pits.


B

Posted by: i love porsche May 8 2004, 01:15 PM

man...and to think i was pissed off that i had to spend 1.79/gallon today at my usual place....well..i guess i dont have it so bad afterall hehe

Posted by: lapuwali May 8 2004, 01:22 PM

My tongue was in my cheek on that comment, Brad. However, while I'll grant that the difference in Europe is all taxes (indeed, the most expensive place to buy gas in Europe is the only OPEC country in Europe: Norway, entirely due to taxes), paying more than 2x for their gas hasn't "royally fucked" the European economies, and hasn't kept people from driving there.

My comment was essentially meant as "oh stop whinging, it could be MUCH worse".

Posted by: SirAndy May 8 2004, 01:37 PM

yeah!

now i have to wait for shannon to come back from her girls-night-out ...

i feel so un-mobile right now.
Andy

Posted by: DuckRyder May 8 2004, 02:30 PM

Oh please.

You can complain when your daily driver is a truck that gets 4-5 MPG HIGHWAY and burns a gallon of oil per tank.

Posted by: VegasRacer May 8 2004, 03:25 PM

That almost makes 110 octane race gas seem cheap at $5/gal.

Posted by: rhodyguy May 8 2004, 04:04 PM

wait til it hits $3.50. then start whinning. no offense. the magic $40 a barrel makes it a profitable venture to harvest the U.S. crude. that means the money stays in the states right? if they (you know who), let them (you know who) use higher sulfur content oil it will save us $.05 a gallon. big deal. i smell a windfall profit. no wait, that would be the high sulfur crude. lots of love.

kevin

Posted by: Mark Henry May 8 2004, 04:05 PM

$.94/liter here

Posted by: vortrex May 8 2004, 04:12 PM

still less than $2 for 94 octane here.

Posted by: SP9146 May 8 2004, 04:27 PM

Guys I don't think it's taxes this time or production cutbacks. I understand the demand side is at work, China demand. The growing economy there is putting pressure on oil, steel, you name it prices.

In some respects their growing economy is good in others not so good. I understand there is enough fossil fuel to last at least two more generations, if we move to more fuel efficent cars. Not sure if those projections included China demand coming around so quickly.

Means this is not a temporary situation this time. Lots of oil in the Russian ground, only hope I see is them tapping into that quickly.

Hybrids are good for people who don't like cars much. Better for us car guys are the new generation common rail diesels. They give hybrid like MPG and better performance than gas. I've driven the 530d in Europe and it's awesome. 33MPG combined and BAGS O' TORQUE!

M/B E320 CDI just went on sale, receiving rave reviews by the journalists

These new diesels don't smell, smoke or make much nosie. A little more noise at idle than gas but the old diesel smoke and clatter are gone.

Great MPG means low CO2 so good for greenhouse gases . Diesel fuel will be sulfur free in US by 2007 which will be good news for diesel emissions. Unfortuantely emission standards get ridiculously stringent at around the same time which means these new diesels may not make it past 07. If those regs relax or we have technological breakthrough you will be able to buy and get 30MPG combined in your Chevy Tahoe.

We need to pressure the Feds and CARB to be kind towards this godsend.

Pete
1970 914-6 Irish Green

Posted by: mikester May 8 2004, 05:05 PM

There are a number of factors as to why our gas prices are so high but I think it really relates to the VALUE of the dollar itself more than anything else.

Take a look at the exchange rate to the pound and the euro over the last two years. I think you'll find that gas in GB and EUrope haven't gone up the percentage over the last two years that our $ per gas has.

The Value of the $ is way way down - so honestly is makes sense that the price for a barrel of oil would go up. I think we could blame it on the multiple formulations, where we get our oil...all kinds of things to blame it on but the bottom line is the American Dollar has dwindled tremendously since 9/11. Thus our cost of living is going to go up in kind.

The Pound: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDGBP=X&t=2y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=

The Euro: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDEUR=X&t=2y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=

I'd love to see a graph of the price of gas average in GB and EU.

Posted by: TimT May 8 2004, 05:30 PM

Well drop your drawers, and place your elbows on the table....

its going to get alot more expensive soon... summer driving season officially starts soon.. And the government has the balls to tell us to expect higher gas prices..instead of doing anything about it...The Saud family will lower prices come election time...

Face it we are getting fucked... so turn around, pants down, elbows on the table..

Posted by: mikester May 8 2004, 05:51 PM

Exactaramadingdong

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Posted by: rhodyguy May 8 2004, 07:55 PM

and without so much as a kiss first tim.

Posted by: Randal May 8 2004, 10:47 PM

6-8 months ago I heard Joseph Alioto, the ex-major of San Francisco, on The Savage Nation, talking about why our prices are so high in Northern California.

He said that regardless of what is presented, there are really only two gas companies, i.e., they own all the others…

Or in other words what we have here is a Monopoly.

And guess what folks, there isn’t going to be anyone who is going to move against them, including the Justice Department.

Oh, by the way gas companies value their inventory on a first in last out basis. What this means is that they re-cost the entire “pipeline” on the basis of the last oil purchase.

Of course this is supposed to drop prices as quickly as the price per barrel goes down, but we all know differently.

Politics as usual.

Posted by: Malmz May 8 2004, 11:00 PM

I'm still trying to reason why diesel is now the same price as premium here, when two months ago it was $.20 less then regular... And diesel is about 5 steps down the refinement chain as gas...

Oh well, gotta pay to play. Just wish they would increase their credit card max charges at the same time so I could get a bit more then half a tank in the Excessive at one filling... $75.00 shut off is just stoopid when gas is $2.50 a gallon.

sm

Posted by: Otmar May 9 2004, 02:42 AM

Gas? What's that?
You guys still using gas?
I'm voting for $5 a gallon here in the US. I figure it's the best way to get rid of those SUVs that are risking my life by being on the road.

Oh well, stupid is as stupid does, and in Uhmerica that means believing TV ads and throwing lots of pure profit at the car makers for unsafe gas guzzling SUVs. (It's just a pickup truck, Duh!)

Just be glad our beloved teeners get close to 30 mpg on gas. (I think that's right, correct me if I'm wrong it's been a while since I ran one on gas)

Have fun!

Posted by: Chris914n6 May 9 2004, 05:13 AM

Don't worry, it's in process... just had to clear the way through Afganistan and Iraq for the pipeline. We've already twisted Saudi Arabia's arm. Thank our Republican friends

Chris
"a good stock trader has resources..." forgot what seminar that was from.

Posted by: mikester May 9 2004, 08:05 AM

My 914 got freaking great mileage on the highway but horrible in town. The 911 is the same. Last night I drove from LA to San Diego and back on half a tank of gas. Over 250 miles - in my Xterra that would have been a whole tank of gas.

Posted by: Bruce Allert May 9 2004, 08:24 AM

I have a 68 galon tank in the "Beav" Shit!(at 6 mpg) I may as well just get a $100 a night motel for the next trip. Sure hope it goes down in 2 months!!!

.........b

Posted by: rhodyguy May 9 2004, 08:34 AM

oh, they're going to go down bruce. i mean the stack of c-notes in your wallet. since i'm a happy commuter these days, bus to seattle, i've noticed the park and ride is half full of suvs and big pickups. we haven't seen anything yet. wait until interest rates start climbing and the housing market collapses.

kevin

Posted by: mikester May 9 2004, 09:02 AM

I take the bus every day to work. My commute is half of what it is if I drive and I take a nap on the way to work and on the way home.

The park and ride is quite full of SUVs.

Posted by: anthony May 9 2004, 09:20 AM

My buddy takes the bus too. The problem is that most of us don't have that option.

There was an interesting piece on NPR a couple weeks ago. The guy made the case that $3+/gallon gas might be good for the economy in the long run. It might cause a boom in solar technology development, wind power, hybrids that get 60mpg and other alternative fuel cars.

A boom in domestic alternative energies would help the economy and at the same time reduce the amount of money we are sending abroad for the purchase of oil.

Posted by: PatW May 9 2004, 09:28 AM

Supply and demand and Government Intervention helps keep Gas here in the Peoples Republic of Kaliforina, expensive.

Last I heard; there was like 17 different blends of gas in this State because of county regs. Add that no new Oil Refineries have been built in many years and we are all wondering WTF? IMHO

Instead I'll drive my 914 untill the motor drops. Then get a Raby 2270 and laugh some more. Oh wait. Smog Law reform threatens to kill my 914 to the scrap heap.
I'm Fu'ked. This state sucks.. I want out.

Pat

Posted by: Red-Beard May 9 2004, 09:44 AM

Glad to hear the run back was uneventful! Good time had by all.

At Costco on Monday, regular gas was $2.09/gal (Pretty cheap in San Diego). Thursday it was $2.19 and I filled the 911 with 92 for $2.39. Highest in Town is $2.79 for regular.

This helps a lot!

http://www.fueltracker.com/newmenu/home.html?id=prices&title=Prices

Warning - Warning - Warning! Very liberal website
http://www.ucan.org/index.html
Warning - Warning - Warning! Very liberal website

Posted by: tesserra May 9 2004, 09:45 AM

The story on the deisel going up is that spill, piprline break, they had in the Delta.
It just pisses me off that the oil companies make a profit on thier fuck-ups. They save long term capital expenses by not maitaining there pipeline, it breaks, the news makes a big deal about it, then prices go up in no relation to the true expense of the "disaster".
If I screw something up in my buisness I can not make it up on the customers in the following 2 or three weeks.
I guess I am in the wrong buisness.

Sepreate rant:
Why the FUCK is propane more expensive? They don't have to "reformulate" it for summer, they didn't spilll any. I guess the answer is "because they can"

HAPPY MOTHER DAY to all. Honor your mothers and mothers of your children. Moms are awesome!


George

Posted by: rhodyguy May 9 2004, 10:37 AM

shell- royal dutch petroleum. bp- british petroleum. hehe. the bus ride is under an hour as compared to the 2 1/2 each way it took the first day when i drove up. every nice moring i think how fun it would be to drive the silver car up with the top off. that thought lasts for about 30 seconds. bus pass is $90 a month for unlimited travel.

kevin

Posted by: morphenspectra May 9 2004, 10:59 AM

i walked in the house and gave my wife the recipt for filling our company truck(v6 dodge dakota)used to cost 28.00 to fill it it was 39.00 dollars the other day.and thats why she started this post she drives a geo metro to work used to cost 8.00 to fill the tank on that thing now its 15.00.my 914 who knows never paid attention i just drive.
she started this thread cause she sees the recipts shes the bean counter. im the all american consumer
james

Posted by: trekkor May 9 2004, 11:32 AM

Diesel in Napa was $2.49 a gal. $.06 higher than 91 octane.

This is expensive..but what isn't?

Think about the price per gallon you pay for the other liquids we use:

Milk, Beer, Wine, OJ, Olive Oil, Coke etc. even bottled water. A single serve coke/water outta a vending machine = $7.50 a gal

Gas is by far the cheap thrill of the day.

BTW, west coast real estate is up, so the gas stations gotta recover somehow.

I paid $85 to top off my truck the other day.

So...Everything said...Make more money
Ahh memories, when diesel was .89 a gal just 3-4 years ago.

FYI- I heard a funny story about a guy who used to collect spent deep fat fryer oil from restaunts. He'd put this stuff in his diesel mixed 50/50 with fuel.
Story goes- " It ran great, but smelled like burnt fish-n-chips goin' down the road! "

Ideas?

Posted by: MXMARK May 9 2004, 12:06 PM

Man I need to figure this out. $32.00 for 5 gal of race gas leaded and 2.49 for 10 gal of 91 super unleaded. Tank not full but close. This equals 56.90 per tank or 3.79 per gallon at 22 miles per gal. 2.5l race motor and daily driver. Still gets better then my Ford truck. Oh well the bicycle or motorcycle might have to get cleaned up and ready. Mark

Posted by: tesserra May 9 2004, 12:22 PM

A great lee Iacoca quote:

There is some thing wrong with a country that would gladly pay more for bottled water than gas.

I paraphrased it, but he is right.
If the oil companies kept the price consistent then we could shift to better mileage cars slowly.
Then we could buy used high milage/hybrid type cars and SUVs.
It makes no money sense to give up my paid for Suburban to have a $500 monthly payment on a new, better milage vehicle, to save $200 per month on gas.


George

Posted by: Malmz May 9 2004, 01:05 PM

I saw one recently like that too. $800 conversion to run 100% on used cooking oil, and it got close to double the mileage... yep, same quote about the smell though...

sm

Posted by: Red-Beard May 9 2004, 09:21 PM

You startup and shutdown on Diesel. You switch over to the fry oil once the engine is warmed up. It actually is supposed to get better mileage with the fry oil than with diesel.

HOWEVER. I would bet that the emmisions are much worse. Also, there isn't that much fry oil around, as compared to diesel...

James

Posted by: Otmar May 9 2004, 09:27 PM

I don't know about the emissions of SVO (straight Vegetable Oil) but the tests on Biodiesel (which is made from the same used oil) show that the emissions are much lower than dino diesel.

I've got a friend who is looking for a 4 cyl TDI to put in his 914 just so he can run Biodiesel. I'm looking for a 5cyl TDI to put in my tow rig. http://www.evcl.com/vw/ Not quiet, but I really want that turbo diesel torque for the mountain passes.

Posted by: Lawrence May 10 2004, 01:50 AM

I saw that email floating around a couple of year ago... no doubt created by some PR folks at a gas company to be distributed around the internet.

If you needed to buy bottled water, milk, olive oil or Coke in lots of 15-50 gallons, just to be able to get from place to place: all hell would be breaking loose.

It's not even a valid comparison. Besides, who actually buys those little bottles of water from the machine anyways? What's wrong with a water fountain?

-Rusty

Posted by: MrPitbull May 10 2004, 04:38 AM

As the guy from UK said our price of gas is so much expensive here than in US and with my toys its really expensive but what the heck I like them a lot!
The gas price in Sweden is now, 10.83Kr per liter for 98 octan. 1 dollar is 7.53 skr so that is almost two dollar per liter.....

Posted by: Red-Beard May 10 2004, 06:21 AM

Hmmmmm.

I do, when I've lost my last one which I usually fill up at the water fountain....

Yeah, Coke sells you _water_ in a bottle for more than they sell you, uh, Coke.

Posted by: mikester May 10 2004, 06:23 AM

Question is, have your prices been going up at the rate ours have been?

Posted by: trekkor May 10 2004, 08:06 AM

The price per gallon on a tall, cool , Budweiser goes up even higher if you set foot into a into a restaurant, bar, pool hall or the worst... Ball park $6.75 for a Barley Pop.

$ 54.00 a Gallon at the Giants ( giant rip off )

Posted by: Red-Beard May 10 2004, 08:26 AM

Yeah, but you're paying for the ambiance...

Posted by: Mark Henry May 10 2004, 08:44 AM

You DO NOT have to modify a diesel engine (you do retard timing slightly on straight BD) to run on bio-diesel. You do have to modify it if you plan to run SVO (straight vegetable oil)

You also cannot just pour fryer oil (unless you have a SVO system) in your tank, it must be refined into bio-diesel.

You can make (DIY) bio-diesel yourself with used fryer oil. Restaurants have to pay to get rid of their old oil, so most are more than happy to give it to you. Canada (Ontario) has several gas stations offering a bio-diesel blend now.

Bio-diesel FAQ:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

We are thinking about getting a diesel jetta, if we do I might try it.

Posted by: balljoint May 10 2004, 09:15 AM

Filled up with high-octane over the weekend.

$0.9550 CDN/litre

=$3.61 CDN/gallon

=$2.64 USD/gallon

Of course that was in the truck which gets me 500 km+ to a tank (75 l).

The 914 is really cheap on gas. No motor in it yet.

Posted by: SP9146 May 10 2004, 11:19 AM

Biodiesel puts out fewer emissions than dino diesel. Mainly the NOx and particulates are lower. Best way to make biodiesel is from rape seed.

Future US emission standards are going to be the same for gas and diesel (today diesels gets a break) and that's the problem. Even with the new common rail technology and low sulfur fuel NOx levels are higher than gas and above the limit.

Mercedes will use uera injection to clean up the NOx in their regular diesel. You'd have to change the canister with every oil change which isn't a big deal considering the benefits.

The rise in gas prices doesn't seem so bad when you consider these new engines will give you 40% better MPG and more fun to drive. I was dreading a future of sterelized hybrid propulsion but these diesels give me hope we can have our cake and eat it too. I also hear hybrids are going to get better...

Posted by: Pnambic May 10 2004, 11:24 AM

This was emailed to me today. I know my link is specific to Indianapolis, but if you scroll down the left side, there appear to be links to other metro locations as well. It's as good as the people using it.


Maybe it'll help you save a buck or two until you can convert to solar panels...or maybe sails. It'll take 'em at least 3 or 4 years to figure out how to tax the wind.


http://www.indygasprices.com/

Posted by: dflesburg May 10 2004, 01:08 PM

Whaaa...

My summer driver only gets about 14mpg with the top down. And since its Supercharged it needs to run 92+

Posted by: dmenche914 May 10 2004, 01:57 PM

[QUOTE] If the goal is to rid the roads of SUV's, I think that $5 a gallon is not the best way to go. Give me a break, I never owned one, ever! Why pray tell should I pay $5 a gallon in my economical car because someone (regardless right or wrong) wants SUV's off the road. If you want them off the road, pass a law getting them off the road, but do not punish others in your attempt to change the ways of others. Attack the problem head on man! Do not go around the problem you wish to solve by effecting everyone regardless of "guilt". I am sure that most of the SUV owners have on average more income for gas purchase, than those that drive econo boxes, so you would be harming the econo box owners proportionally more, and still may not get the richest SUV owners off the road.

Very poor idea for the goal of removing SUV's, if you got a probelm with them, then attack them if you must, not everyone (I am not a big fan of them either)

I for one like to go camping in the mountians, right now in my 914 (yes I drive it camping sometimes) it costs about $35 round trip in gas, If it hits $5 a gallon, I'd be out an extra $35 every time I go camping, all this for you to rid the roads of SUV's, yeah, right, give up my vacations because I can't afford them with your plan.

Electrics are a nice non gas option, I have considered making an electric car myself, however if all the cars in California were electric, there would not be enough powerplants to keep them going. Electric is not the solution right now, as are other technologies that are in the press (and Politics) Hydrogen is a neat one, it burns so clean etc..... What people need to understand (as we piss away tax dollars for demo cars that burn a fuel that is too expensive to make) is hydrogen needs energy to produce it, and we have no place for that to come from right now.

Maybe one day we will have cheap electric (maybe Fussion) when we do, electric, or hydrogen cars will be the best, until then the majority use gasoline, and the majority of them are better off with low gas prices.

The China thing mentioned is probably right, China has been increasing its fuel needs drastically, In a nation that had zero private cars a decade or so ago, to the biggest market for cars, they will be using alot of gas, and other engrgy to fuel their economy. So true, the price of gas here is higher because of demand there. However, we are benifiting from Chinas development with cheap (dirt cheap) products we buy from them, however there are other issues such as are we supporting slave labor, or helping Chinas military might. At any rate, China is I believe having an impact on gas prices.

As far as diesel, I think it is a good option, certainly good milage from the diesel. A small light car could get over 60 mpg with a diesel. Diesel technology is already here, just need the public to buy them. They do simular to hybrids in milage. Europe has something like half the cars on diesel (or half the new sales of cars, or something like that, oh heck don't quote me I just know its a lot of them in europe)

dave

Posted by: Toast May 10 2004, 02:29 PM

I paid $2.49 a gallon this morning.

Here is what West Valley, Utah is paying:


Attached image(s)

Posted by: itsa914 May 10 2004, 02:33 PM

Took the boy to Nana's this morning gas was $1.89. Went to the doctor this afternon for my checkup and gas is $2.08. Not bad, only jumped $.19 in four hours. :finger2:

- Garold

Posted by: anthony May 10 2004, 02:34 PM

That's not true. Electric vehicles charge at night when overall electrical demand is very low. Electrics do have their disadvantages - the primary being range.

Posted by: TROJANMAN May 10 2004, 02:44 PM

filled up the new mercedes at costco yesterday for $1.98/gal. i can't figure out if i am saving money by driving it, since it gets the best gas mileage of any car in my fleet, or if it costs more because it requires a minimum of 91 octane.

And, if anyone wants gas to go to $5/gal, then let's try putting a democrat in the white house so he can add more taxes to the price of a gallon.

Posted by: SLITS May 10 2004, 03:18 PM

Seeing as how the "oil companies" are multinational and owe allegience to no one in paticular, it has always been my thought that they are just trying to get the US to pay the same as the rest of the world for refined fossil fuel.

Maybe it's an Al Queerda plot!

It goes up, but never comes back to the level it started at. So......., bend over, grab your ankles and SMILE.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 10 2004, 03:29 PM

On the news a couple of days ago they reported that the oil companies are raising prices due to short commings in supply due to several refineries being down for maintenance. However, the two major companies have reported first quarter earnings increaces of around 23% for shell, and 98% for exxon/arco. (I am pretty shure that I got the names and figures right...the main idea is still there) Thus, there is absolutely no fiscal motivation for the companies to repair their refineries, or do any other maintenance as stated in the earlier post about the diesel pipeline break.

As for SUV bias, I have owned one as long as I was able and have used it as intended most of the time. The only folks that I have hit deserved it (they werent paying attention, ran stop signs) and it saved my bacon. Besides, I need to always keep a car in inventory that can tow the 914 home, to the shop, etc.

My daily driver is a motorcycle that gets atleast 40mpg. It is a hazardous endevour, but parking is also very easy.

Posted by: dmenche914 May 10 2004, 03:42 PM

On the Mercades, 91 octane might be recommended, but a nice modern car like the Mercades should be ok on lower octane, just a little less perfromance, as the computer that controls the engine senses knock from low octane, and retards the timing just enough to stop the knocking. Technology is great some times!

The real problem is for a high compression car that does not have the knock sensor, as the low grade crap gas we get in high tech silicon valley will cause knocking, and the owner must manually retard the timing, increase mixture or what ever.

Last year used to buy 92 octane, now max is 91 octane, can you all believe this crap??? What ever happened to 98 octane, (when did we stop that???)

The oxygenates they ad now also are harmful, as they tend to lean out mixtures in older cars (either in carb cars, or older FI cars, like the 914) You need to richen the mixture by adding more fuel volume than was needed in the past, if you do not, you run lean. And when you make the fix (if you even can on a 914) your milage drops, so you burn more of the damn stuff anyway!!! (True enough, in my "fleet" of a half dozen cars or so, when they switched gas mixures out here, my milage went down about 10%, as was predicted in the news papers)

Ok, I think getting the lead out of gas was good, it was just so toxic, but good greif, many of the stuff they make us put in gas in Nazi California is a bunch of mumbo jumbo that non scientist wacko politicians come up with (like farm subsidizing thru mandated use of alchohol in the gas) There is little logic to the "clean gas laws" makes distribution more expensive, and is driven by political choices, and by persons (elected or appointed) that would rather see all evil cars scrapped so we can all ride busses in their commie socialist paridise.

I truely believe the lack of octane greater than 91 is purposely in place to run older performance cars out of the state, or into museums. I do not understand why a higher octane grade could not be made and be as clean as the so called clean gas we have today. (barring political mandated additives)

At any rate, nice Mercades!

dave

PS to address the monopoly issue of only two owners of Californias gas supply, The politicians have effectivily barred outside compitition by making it too expensive to get into Californias market. They have done this by not approving any new refineries for years, super strict pollution laws, workers comp laws, and numerous "un-freindly to business" laws, high taxes, oh, and special gas, gas that must be different depending on the time of year, and what county you sell it in. Why do business here, when the other 49 states are so much easier????

We are lucky we have to have even one, much less two gas suppliers out here.

dave

Posted by: Malmz May 10 2004, 10:34 PM

Dang, that van is cool! I love WTF-type vehicles (even if you want to run me and my Excursion off the road!)

sm

Posted by: Red-Beard May 10 2004, 11:41 PM

Mike,

the new avatar is disturbing....

James

Posted by: Otmar May 11 2004, 12:03 AM

Oh no! Don't go off the road, you'll hurt the poor trees!

Just kidding!



Naw, I wouldn't mind SUV's if they were paying their way. And if they were required to meet the same FMVSS as passenger cars. Trouble is they are classified as "Trucks" and therefore are not expected to meet safety and emissions standards because we don't want to penalize the farmers. Ya right, the yuppie next door to me that does her grocery run in her "Ford Explosion" is needing a farming exemption! just level the playing field, that's all I ask.
I've often thought that the speed limit for a car should be related to kinetic energy, you know, MV^2. It would sure slow me down in me Stretch V dub, but in case of an accident we'd all be on even footing. I don't mind that. Best of all, the light Teeners could be kicking ass! Oh well, I'm dreaming again.
In the meantime, there are many studies that show the real cost of gas at $6 to$15 a gallon. It's just being subsidized by our other taxes (seen your medical insurance bill lately?) and the federal deficit, which although rather invisible to most people affects us all.

So go ahead, give us $5 a gallon gas, but reduce the average tax burden the same amount. Economical car drivers will get a super break, and when I drag my 914 to a race with a truck I'll gladly pay the penalty.

Posted by: tdgray May 11 2004, 06:07 AM

Not to get to far off topic but you really need to consider what these "gas" prices are doing to not just the consumer but the businesses also. From trucking companies to companies like mine these inflated prices are killing us.

There is a good reason that OPEC is called a CARTEL. They are thieves and our stupid government just blindly looks the other way as they artificially prop up these prices. The problem is that it does not just affect gasoline prices it affects natural gas, electricity, fuel oil.... everything is related.

You want to talk about the declining value of a gallon of gasoline? Compare as to this:

1998 - my company paid 1.98 for an MCF of Natural Gas

2004 - my company pays 6.50 for an MCF of Natural Gas.

Sounds like a pretty big hike HUH? Well you do the math considering we use about 60,000 MCF PER MONTH.

Now who is getting f$cked Who do you think is going to absorb this huge increase? Well my bank will make damn sure it is not my company... so you'll end up paying for it in the long run. Great plan there people.

Posted by: Red-Beard May 11 2004, 07:03 AM

In San Diego, the News just flashed real published Gas Prices of $2.99/gal.......

James

Posted by: rhodyguy May 11 2004, 07:20 AM

forget the fuel eveything is more exspensive. paid $6.95 a lb for skinless boneless chicken breast. must be the avian flu. have you priced plywood lately? as for a democrat in office, i would pay $7 a gallon to get one and take the bus, walk, ride a bike, etc.

kevin