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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ GAS LEAK!
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Jun 1 2011, 01:47 PM
I just noticed that gas is leaking from somewhere near the injectorvalves on the passagers side of the engine and pooling on the shroud. Due to the high price of gas these days as well as some other obvious reasons I would like to take care of this ASAP. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what this might be or what to check. I'm going to hit up all the usual manuals and books but I just wanted to see what the 914 world had to add on the matter. The information that I have gotten here has always been very helpful. Thank You.
Posted by: eric9144 Jun 1 2011, 01:52 PM
It's usually the fuel lines @ the injectors or leading up to them--very common on our 30-40 yr old cars...
Good that you caught it now, that's how 914's turn into charcoal...
Cheap and fairly easy to fix.
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Jun 1 2011, 01:56 PM
It's usually the fuel lines @ the injectors or leading up to them--very common on our 30-40 yr old cars...
Good that you caught it now, that's how 914's turn into charcoal...
Cheap and fairly easy to fix.
Yea the dead battery that I was swearing about earlier might have just saved the day. I noticed it while jumping the car off.
Posted by: wingnut86 Jun 1 2011, 01:56 PM
I assume you mean the fuel injectors themselves?
If she has been running and idling normally, then you can probably rule out actual injector seals. I suspect a fuel line(s) needing replacement - all of them. Could also be a cracked fuel rail too, but less probable. Disconnect your battery cables after venting the engine compartment for 10 minutes. Clamp the fuel lines "after" they exit the tunnel. Not the plastic ones, the neoprene fabric ones. Don't do this inside a garage or anyplace you care about.
Good luck Bro.
Dave
Posted by: underthetire Jun 1 2011, 02:17 PM
You can buy pre-made lines from the usual suspects, or buy the correct modern fuel injection hose and make them. The pre-bent are nice, since they hold the rail up a little, but modern fuels are killing the old style rubber lines. You should buy the injector o-rings, since you will need to pull out the injectors if they still have the stock lines on. Flaps has them, I bought them in a kit for ~6 bucks that had all different ones in the package, they fit perfect. You will need to cut the bands off the old line to get the hose off. If it's the injectors leaking, you will need to send them out.
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jun 1 2011, 02:20 PM
Injector seals have NOTHING to do with fuel; they seal vacuum. As for the original question, there's no better tool for pinpointing a fuel leak atop the engine than the good ol' Mk1 eyeball. I'm guessing you have at least one around there somewhere ............
Have an accomplice sit in the car while you peer through the open engine lid. Might want to have a nice bright flashlight with you. Have him/her turn the key on for a couple of seconds. Look at the area where you suspect the fuel leak to be. If you don't see it right away, cycle the key a few more times. See the leak now?
Leaks in this area can be one of 2 things: A leaking hose, or a leaking injector. if it's a hose, buy some OE type replacement FI hose, 7 or 7.5mm, and maybe some new FI hose clamps if yours are the screw type. Replace as much of the fuel hose as you think is necessary. That's usually all of it, 14 feet or so, and a 6" adapter hose for the filter. If it's an injector body, you'll need a new injector. Good luck on that one. They're pricey and difficult to find. Get a set of seals, too. (2 sizes x 4 each.)
Report back!
The Cap'n
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Jun 1 2011, 03:53 PM
here is a photo for what its worth.
Posted by: Spoke Jun 1 2011, 04:00 PM
It could be the injector.
Get that wire bundle off of the injector and take a good look like the Cap'n said.
I used some old injectors to get my engine re-FI'ed and 2 of the original 4 injectors leaked. Had to buy another used set of 4 to get 2 more injectors that didn't leak.
Posted by: eric9144 Jun 1 2011, 04:29 PM
My guess would be the rubber lines before the injectors, but if it is the injectors, they can be rebuilt, lots of guys in the local Porsche crowd have used this place with great success http://www.rceng.com/
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Jun 1 2011, 08:55 PM
Thanks for the info everyone. I'm going out of town for a couple of days (going to check out Raby's show while I'm at it) and when I get back I will follow everyones advice. I will keep you up to date. Thanks again everybody. I will check back if anyone has anything else to add.
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Jun 1 2011, 09:00 PM
Injector seals have NOTHING to do with fuel; they seal vacuum. As for the original question, there's no better tool for pinpointing a fuel leak atop the engine than the good ol' Mk1 eyeball. I'm guessing you have at least one around there somewhere ............
Have an accomplice sit in the car while you peer through the open engine lid. Might want to have a nice bright flashlight with you. Have him/her turn the key on for a couple of seconds. Look at the area where you suspect the fuel leak to be. If you don't see it right away, cycle the key a few more times. See the leak now?
Leaks in this area can be one of 2 things: A leaking hose, or a leaking injector. if it's a hose, buy some OE type replacement FI hose, 7 or 7.5mm, and maybe some new FI hose clamps if yours are the screw type. Replace as much of the fuel hose as you think is necessary. That's usually all of it, 14 feet or so, and a 6" adapter hose for the filter. If it's an injector body, you'll need a new injector. Good luck on that one. They're pricey and difficult to find. Get a set of seals, too. (2 sizes x 4 each.)
Report back!
The Cap'n
Thanks, I'll keep my fingers crossed that its a hose or clamp. Do you have any suggestions for where to pick up the hoses and clamps?
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Jun 12 2011, 02:04 PM
I finally got around to having someone crank the engine while I used the old Mk1 eyeball to get info from the engine compartment. The car ran for a while (less than a min.) with no leaks on the side in question. I when around to the other side and noticed that the other side was leaking this time. The leak appeared to be coming from between the yellow plastic and the gray shaft of the injectors. Is this a problem that anyone has had or heard of? I’m guessing next step is to take out the injectors and send them off for a rebuild. Any advice?
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Jun 12 2011, 02:06 PM
My guess would be the rubber lines before the injectors, but if it is the injectors, they can be rebuilt, lots of guys in the local Porsche crowd have used this place with great success http://www.rceng.com/
Thanks for the info. Its looking like I might need to use these guys.
Posted by: Dave_Darling Jun 12 2011, 02:14 PM
Rebuild or replace them.
Just one M6 nut (10mm wrench) holds each injector onto the intake runner. Remove that, loosen the hose clamps, unplug the electrical plug. Pull the injector out, pull the hose off the fuel rail.
When you re-install, lube the fitting on the fuel rail with a little fuel, that will help the hose slide onto it.
--DD
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Jun 14 2011, 01:10 PM
Rebuild or replace them.
Just one M6 nut (10mm wrench) holds each injector onto the intake runner. Remove that, loosen the hose clamps, unplug the electrical plug. Pull the injector out, pull the hose off the fuel rail.
When you re-install, lube the fitting on the fuel rail with a little fuel, that will help the hose slide onto it.
--DD
Thanks for the info. Any addvice on getting new or rebuilt injectors?
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jun 14 2011, 02:07 PM
There is a misconception here, regarding "rebuilt" injectors. In the nearly 40 years I've worked on 914s and other D- and L-jet cars, I have never encountered anyone who could repair leaks in the injector body. Furthermore, it has been my experience that "rebuilt" injectors are a distant second choice to new ones, IF you can find them.
The Cap'n
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Jun 14 2011, 02:39 PM
There is a misconception here, regarding "rebuilt" injectors. In the nearly 40 years I've worked on 914s and other D- and L-jet cars, I have never encountered anyone who could repair leaks in the injector body. Furthermore, it has been my experience that "rebuilt" injectors are a distant second choice to new ones, IF you can find them.
The Cap'n
How would you proceed if you had this problem (other than switching to carbs)?
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Jun 14 2011, 02:53 PM
I am surprised no one mentioned safety!!! Be sure you have a fire extingusher with you in case of fire. My guess it's a leaking injector.
Tom
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Jun 14 2011, 03:17 PM
I am surprised no one mentioned safety!!! Be sure you have a fire extingusher with you in case of fire. My guess it's a leaking injector.
Tom
I'm working outside with a fire extingusher in hand. 914's don't look good with flame jobs.
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jun 14 2011, 04:50 PM
There is a misconception here, regarding "rebuilt" injectors. In the nearly 40 years I've worked on 914s and other D- and L-jet cars, I have never encountered anyone who could repair leaks in the injector body. Furthermore, it has been my experience that "rebuilt" injectors are a distant second choice to new ones, IF you can find them.
The Cap'n
How would you proceed if you had this problem (other than switching to carbs)?
New injectors, as needed.
The Cap'n
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Jun 14 2011, 07:21 PM
I am surprised no one mentioned safety!!! Be sure you have a fire extingusher with you in case of fire. My guess it's a leaking injector.
Tom
I'm working outside with a fire extingusher in hand. 914's don't look good with flame jobs.
Hey ezbngreen914,
I just noticed you live in Santa Rosa Beach, FL. I have a place in Santa Rosa Beach on 30-A in Blue Mtn Beach and will send you a personal PM to compare notes. Small world.
Tom
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Jun 14 2011, 07:32 PM
I think I have the leak on the passenger side figured out. It looks like the leak is coming from the connection between the fuel rail and the hose to the injector. The rail looks like its got some sort of coating on it that may be preventing a proper seal. Not sure if this is some POR 15 that may have gotten on it when the previous owner coated the rust repare or if its something left over from the original fuel lines. I am going to undo the attachment, clean off the rail and replace the fuel line and coupling. Hope it works. Again, any advise is more than welcome. I have only had the car for about 6 months, so it might have been leaking the whole time. about a month or two ago I started using lucus injector cleaner, I wander if its possible that that freed up some junk that was pluging the leak. Any Thoughts?
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Jun 14 2011, 08:47 PM
drivers side leak. I'm hoping that there is some kind of seal that can be replaced.
Posted by: Hammy Jun 14 2011, 11:20 PM
drivers side leak. I'm hoping that there is some kind of seal that can be replaced.
No, as the Cap'n already stated, Leaks in the injector body means you need a new injector. Track down and buy a new one (rare) or find a good working used one (or two) .
As for the passenger side, figure out why that hose is leaking. How old are your fuel hoses? Cracking? Connectors loose?
Posted by: RobW Jun 15 2011, 03:52 AM
FWIW - I would buy new ones, and install. Redo all the fuel lines if they haven't been done in a while or you don't know.
Posted by: RobW Jun 15 2011, 03:53 AM
PS - use the right type of clamps too. The FLAPS kind with slots in it tend to cut and crack the lines prematurely.
PSS - use the right kind of fuel line too.
PSSS - GPR helped me with doing mine.
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Jun 15 2011, 01:28 PM
drivers side leak. I'm hoping that there is some kind of seal that can be replaced.
No, as the Cap'n already stated, Leaks in the injector body means you need a new injector. Track down and buy a new one (rare) or find a good working used one (or two) .
As for the passenger side, figure out why that hose is leaking. How old are your fuel hoses? Cracking? Connectors loose?
I wasn't sure if this was considered the body of the injector or not. I guess I need to buy Deloran so I can go back in time to buy parts for my 914. Thanks for the info. If I'm going to go on a goose chase its good to know that it’s the only (or at least best by a long shot) solution.
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Jun 15 2011, 01:30 PM
PS - use the right type of clamps too. The FLAPS kind with slots in it tend to cut and crack the lines prematurely.
PSS - use the right kind of fuel line too.
PSSS - GPR helped me with doing mine.
Thanks for the info! GPR?
Posted by: Hammy Jun 15 2011, 09:04 PM
PS - use the right type of clamps too. The FLAPS kind with slots in it tend to cut and crack the lines prematurely.
PSS - use the right kind of fuel line too.
PSSS - GPR helped me with doing mine.
Thanks for the info! GPR?
http://www.gprparts.com/shop/
Posted by: ezbngreen914 Aug 7 2011, 11:34 AM
I got the leaky injector switched out this morning. 
I was planning on replacing some more of the fuel lines before I test it all out but as the heat index passed 100 degrees, I decided to role the car back in the garage and continue my efforts this evening. Keep your fingers crossed.
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