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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ My motor is headed back to Series9

Posted by: MoveQik Jun 23 2011, 05:07 PM

I have this on Narp but I know most of you don't check in there too often. I thought I would put it here as well so all can see what Joe is up to.

Buying a used motor is always a roll of the dice. Mine has ran strong since Joe put it in but the smoking issue(valve guides seem to be the most common diagnosis) has become worse over time and the oil leaks are no longer small. mad.gif

So we struck a deal that has me pulling the motor and sending it to Joe to rebuild. Then he is coming out to help me put it back in(read as, he is letting me slow him down). There are added costs in doing this obviously but Joe made it more than fair and it worked out to be cheaper than having any of our local shops do the work and hand me back a freshened up motor. Plus, I get some more much needed hands on experience.

I got the motor out yesterday. I will be pulling off parts that I want to pretty up while Joe has the motor. I am also going to take this time to clean up and respray the engine bay.

The before photo, fresh out of the car:






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Posted by: URY914 Jun 23 2011, 07:01 PM

Hey is that a jackstand in the corner? confused24.gif

I've never seen one w/o a 914 on it. lol-2.gif

Posted by: Series9 Jun 23 2011, 07:14 PM

So what are we doing?

3.4?
Individual throttle bodies?
Motec?
Huge cams?

It's time to get rid of the distributor and at least go with the Electromotive crank-fire arrangement......
stirthepot.gif


Posted by: MoveQik Jun 23 2011, 07:20 PM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 23 2011, 06:14 PM) *

So what are we doing?

3.4?
Individual throttle bodies?
Motec?
Huge cams?

It's time to get rid of the distributor and at least go with the Electromotive crank-fire arrangement......
stirthepot.gif

Hang on, let me put my wife on the phone for this one. :noFuchingWaySmilie:

Posted by: Series9 Jun 23 2011, 07:35 PM

QUOTE(MoveQik @ Jun 23 2011, 09:20 PM) *


Hang on, let me put my wife on the phone for this one. :noFuchingWaySmilie:



This reminds me of a very old Sam Kinison joke. He's on the phone with his buddy, who is trying to talk him into going out with them and bringing his penis.

Since his wife has his penis, he says to her "come on honey, all the guys are taking theirs...", a moment passes and he puts the phone back up to his ear and tells his buddy "she says no fucking way..."

Remember that one? happy11.gif

Posted by: Series9 Jun 23 2011, 07:57 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT-f9ov5ypQ

sunglasses.gif










Posted by: r_towle Jun 23 2011, 09:38 PM

what is that injection setup?
Also, what is the ignition?
Finally, what does that motor put out in 3.2 form?

Rich

Posted by: MoveQik Jun 23 2011, 09:44 PM

It's all stock. As for HP, the specs say the US model was at 217hp, the Euro 3.2 was 231hp.

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jun 23 2011, 11:47 PM

Joe doesn't actually let you touch anything does he? av-943.gif

Posted by: MoveQik Jun 24 2011, 12:00 AM

QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Jun 23 2011, 10:47 PM) *

Joe doesn't actually let you touch anything does he? av-943.gif

WTF??? I am really skilled at taking shit apart. biggrin.gif

And another thing...isn't this pretty late for a guy your age? howard.gif

Posted by: Series9 Jun 24 2011, 05:51 AM

QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Jun 24 2011, 01:47 AM) *

Joe doesn't actually let you touch anything does he? av-943.gif



Actually, I'm totally impressed. For a guy who will tell you he has no mechanical skills, he's in pretty deep on a 3.2.

Every pulled your 3.2? Oh, that's right, you just give them to the state of CA to be melted down.... shades.gif

Posted by: Series9 Jun 24 2011, 05:58 AM

So I have a late night (read: alcohol induced) email from a certain customer saying:

(paraphrased)

WTF? You're suggesting all these mods to Wills and not to me?

I have money! I want that stuff! w00t.gif



I told this anonymous person to go with the ignition for $1700 because the whole package comes in at around $17k. wacko.gif

Posted by: ellisor3 Jun 24 2011, 06:23 AM

Joe's garage rules are pretty simple:

1.) Leave your car here, Don't come back until it is ready.
2.) Don't touch anything, I charge for that
3. The dogs get overtime after 1pm- the 7 year rule you know
4.) I will call you when YOU run out of money.

lol-2.gif


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Posted by: r_towle Jun 24 2011, 07:34 AM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 23 2011, 09:57 PM) *

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT-f9ov5ypQ

sunglasses.gif

what is that injection setup?
Also, what is the ignition?
Finally, what does that motor put out in 3.2 form?

The motor above in the youtube link is what the questions refer to please.

I am just curious what can be done going with that induction and ignition system and what the ROI is from a power perspective.

Sound like Joe knows....

Rich

Posted by: MoveQik Jun 24 2011, 07:43 AM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 24 2011, 04:58 AM) *

So I have a late night (read: alcohol induced) email from a certain customer saying:

(paraphrased)

WTF? You're suggesting all these mods to Wills and not to me?

I have money! I want that stuff! w00t.gif



I told this anonymous person to go with the ignition for $1700 because the whole package comes in at around $17k. wacko.gif

Tell Nelson to have another drink and relax.

Posted by: Series9 Jun 24 2011, 09:15 AM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jun 24 2011, 09:34 AM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 23 2011, 09:57 PM) *

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT-f9ov5ypQ

sunglasses.gif

what is that injection setup?
Also, what is the ignition?
Finally, what does that motor put out in 3.2 form?

The motor above in the youtube link is what the questions refer to please.

I am just curious what can be done going with that induction and ignition system and what the ROI is from a power perspective.

Sound like Joe knows....

Rich






The FI is the same as we're using on James'. Electromotive TEC gt, but the one in the video also has individual throttle body intake (+$2600).

I don't have a dyno sheet. Probably 20ish HP for a total of $6k, but it looks really cool.

Posted by: Series9 Jun 24 2011, 09:20 AM

Hey Wills, did you look at the video I posted?




It's killing you, isn't it......... happy11.gif

Posted by: MoveQik Jun 24 2011, 09:38 AM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 24 2011, 08:20 AM) *

Hey Wills, did you look at the video I posted?




It's killing you, isn't it......... happy11.gif

Only because how dirt-free that motor is. Mine will be like that.

Oh, you meant all the go-fast goodies??

Posted by: r_towle Jun 24 2011, 11:03 AM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 24 2011, 11:15 AM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jun 24 2011, 09:34 AM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 23 2011, 09:57 PM) *

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT-f9ov5ypQ

sunglasses.gif

what is that injection setup?
Also, what is the ignition?
Finally, what does that motor put out in 3.2 form?

The motor above in the youtube link is what the questions refer to please.

I am just curious what can be done going with that induction and ignition system and what the ROI is from a power perspective.

Sound like Joe knows....

Rich






The FI is the same as we're using on James'. Electromotive TEC gt, but the one in the video also has individual throttle body intake (+$2600).

I don't have a dyno sheet. Probably 20ish HP for a total of $6k, but it looks really cool.

lotta buck for the bang.
I figured with new camshafts and the throttle body setup it might actually be doing something aside from posing.

Rich

Posted by: Socalandy Jun 24 2011, 11:33 AM

Twin plug it Wills poke.gif

Posted by: r_towle Jun 24 2011, 11:35 AM

twin plug, ITB's, and 3.4 p/c

Rich

Posted by: John Jun 24 2011, 11:53 AM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jun 24 2011, 09:35 AM) *

twin plug, ITB's, and 3.4 p/c

Rich


Just how much power do you think that would be good for?

Posted by: Series9 Jun 24 2011, 11:55 AM

QUOTE(ellisor3 @ Jun 24 2011, 08:23 AM) *

Joe's garage rules are pretty simple:

1.) Leave your car here, Don't come back until it is ready.
2.) Don't touch anything, I charge for that
3. The dogs get overtime after 1pm- the 7 year rule you know
4.) I will call you when YOU run out of money.

lol-2.gif



I'm going to make a sign for the shop saying exactly that. sunglasses.gif

Posted by: Series9 Jun 24 2011, 11:57 AM

QUOTE(John @ Jun 24 2011, 01:53 PM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jun 24 2011, 09:35 AM) *

twin plug, ITB's, and 3.4 p/c

Rich


Just how much power do you think that would be good for?



300ish for $17k.

A 3.6 w/915 WEVO would be in the same ballpark. Then there's the narrow-body problem. laugh.gif

Posted by: MoveQik Jun 24 2011, 12:32 PM

Aren't you guys full of ideas when it isn't your money! rolleyes.gif

Posted by: MoveQik Jun 24 2011, 01:50 PM

Just need to strap it to the pallet.

Joe would have preferred the intake pieces to stay on the motor but hey, I need something to play with while he is having his fun.

IPB Image


IPB Image

Posted by: Ferg Jun 24 2011, 02:20 PM

I know you are going to plug the intakes, but if it were my motor, I'd plastic wrap it as well.

Posted by: MoveQik Jun 24 2011, 02:47 PM

QUOTE(Ferg @ Jun 24 2011, 01:20 PM) *

I know you are going to plug the intakes, but if it were my motor, I'd plastic wrap it as well.

They will be plugged, the motor strapped down and completely wrapped. It helps to know shipping people. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Madswede Jun 24 2011, 05:26 PM

QUOTE(MoveQik @ Jun 24 2011, 07:43 AM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 24 2011, 04:58 AM) *

So I have a late night (read: alcohol induced) email from a certain customer saying:

(paraphrased)

WTF? You're suggesting all these mods to Wills and not to me?

I have money! I want that stuff! w00t.gif



I told this anonymous person to go with the ignition for $1700 because the whole package comes in at around $17k. wacko.gif

Tell Nelson to have another drink and relax.


laugh.gif I did just that, after the hissyfit.gif

A bit too much beer3.gif last night kinda ruined my Friday off, but hey ... that's what Fridays off are for, so I can enjoy Sat and Sun. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: John Jun 24 2011, 10:21 PM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 24 2011, 09:57 AM) *

QUOTE(John @ Jun 24 2011, 01:53 PM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jun 24 2011, 09:35 AM) *

twin plug, ITB's, and 3.4 p/c

Rich


Just how much power do you think that would be good for?



300ish for $17k.

A 3.6 w/915 WEVO would be in the same ballpark. Then there's the narrow-body problem. laugh.gif



A 3.6 wouldn't run $17k, but one would have to find the motor first.


Posted by: Series9 Jun 25 2011, 06:25 AM

QUOTE(John @ Jun 25 2011, 12:21 AM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 24 2011, 09:57 AM) *

QUOTE(John @ Jun 24 2011, 01:53 PM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jun 24 2011, 09:35 AM) *

twin plug, ITB's, and 3.4 p/c

Rich


Just how much power do you think that would be good for?



300ish for $17k.

A 3.6 w/915 WEVO would be in the same ballpark. Then there's the narrow-body problem. laugh.gif



A 3.6 wouldn't run $17k, but one would have to find the motor first.





A 3.6 + 915 tranny + converions parts + WEVO conversion + shifter parts=$17k.

Posted by: racerbvd Jun 25 2011, 08:07 AM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 25 2011, 04:25 AM) *

QUOTE(John @ Jun 25 2011, 12:21 AM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 24 2011, 09:57 AM) *

QUOTE(John @ Jun 24 2011, 01:53 PM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jun 24 2011, 09:35 AM) *

twin plug, ITB's, and 3.4 p/c

Rich


Just how much power do you think that would be good for?



300ish for $17k.

A 3.6 w/915 WEVO would be in the same ballpark. Then there's the narrow-body problem. laugh.gif



A 3.6 wouldn't run $17k, but one would have to find the motor first.





A 3.6 + 915 tranny + converions parts + WEVO conversion + shifter parts=$17k.

Very easily, more if the 3.6 didn't had the warranty repair..

Posted by: John Jun 25 2011, 01:39 PM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 25 2011, 04:25 AM) *

QUOTE(John @ Jun 25 2011, 12:21 AM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 24 2011, 09:57 AM) *

QUOTE(John @ Jun 24 2011, 01:53 PM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jun 24 2011, 09:35 AM) *

twin plug, ITB's, and 3.4 p/c

Rich


Just how much power do you think that would be good for?



300ish for $17k.

A 3.6 w/915 WEVO would be in the same ballpark. Then there's the narrow-body problem. laugh.gif



A 3.6 wouldn't run $17k, but one would have to find the motor first.





A 3.6 + 915 tranny + converions parts + WEVO conversion + shifter parts=$17k.


No it wouldn't. Already have the 915 and shifter parts, and the conversion parts.

Some mods required between a 3.2 and a 3.6 on the engine tin (but I make that myself anyway).

Some electrical to work out but not much.

My headers would even fit.

I would have to deal with the difference between the 3.2 where the oil cooler area.

Not 17k.



Posted by: MoveQik Jun 25 2011, 02:12 PM

QUOTE(John @ Jun 25 2011, 12:39 PM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 25 2011, 04:25 AM) *

QUOTE(John @ Jun 25 2011, 12:21 AM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 24 2011, 09:57 AM) *

QUOTE(John @ Jun 24 2011, 01:53 PM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jun 24 2011, 09:35 AM) *

twin plug, ITB's, and 3.4 p/c

Rich


Just how much power do you think that would be good for?



300ish for $17k.

A 3.6 w/915 WEVO would be in the same ballpark. Then there's the narrow-body problem. laugh.gif



A 3.6 wouldn't run $17k, but one would have to find the motor first.





A 3.6 + 915 tranny + converions parts + WEVO conversion + shifter parts=$17k.


No it wouldn't. Already have the 915 and shifter parts, and the conversion parts.

Some mods required between a 3.2 and a 3.6 on the engine tin (but I make that myself anyway).

Some electrical to work out but not much.

My headers would even fit.

I would have to deal with the difference between the 3.2 where the oil cooler area.

Not 17k.

That is great for you. However, for me I would need A 3.6 + 915 tranny + converions parts + WEVO conversion + shifter parts=$17k. Can we stop going in circles now? headbang.gif

Posted by: racerbvd Jun 25 2011, 02:33 PM

Or you could go steal a 964 or 993, then the engine wouldn't cost you anything, guess you could get the 915 the same way, sawzall-smiley.gif but there is a guy from Cali currently enjoying a State funded vacation for doing just that to a few guys on the Bird Board..

Posted by: John Jun 25 2011, 02:49 PM

QUOTE(MoveQik @ Jun 25 2011, 12:12 PM) *

QUOTE(John @ Jun 25 2011, 12:39 PM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 25 2011, 04:25 AM) *

QUOTE(John @ Jun 25 2011, 12:21 AM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jun 24 2011, 09:57 AM) *

QUOTE(John @ Jun 24 2011, 01:53 PM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jun 24 2011, 09:35 AM) *

twin plug, ITB's, and 3.4 p/c

Rich


Just how much power do you think that would be good for?



300ish for $17k.

A 3.6 w/915 WEVO would be in the same ballpark. Then there's the narrow-body problem. laugh.gif



A 3.6 wouldn't run $17k, but one would have to find the motor first.





A 3.6 + 915 tranny + converions parts + WEVO conversion + shifter parts=$17k.


No it wouldn't. Already have the 915 and shifter parts, and the conversion parts.

Some mods required between a 3.2 and a 3.6 on the engine tin (but I make that myself anyway).

Some electrical to work out but not much.

My headers would even fit.

I would have to deal with the difference between the 3.2 where the oil cooler area.

Not 17k.

That is great for you. However, for me I would need A 3.6 + 915 tranny + converions parts + WEVO conversion + shifter parts=$17k. Can we stop going in circles now? headbang.gif



Sir Andy is running a 3.6 mated to his 901.



Posted by: Series9 Jul 6 2011, 06:31 AM

The 3.2 has arrived at the shipping terminal in Orlando.


I'll have it at S9 by lunch time....

Posted by: racerbvd Jul 6 2011, 10:07 AM

Nice, you are getting a collection of 911 engines, let me know if you need to borrow one of my stands

Posted by: Madswede Jul 6 2011, 06:13 PM

agree.gif But he just put one back in ... which by my count will leave one available if he gets rid of that POS GM motor that was taking up one of the stands when I was there lol3.gif

Posted by: Series9 Jul 6 2011, 06:30 PM

Not the Vangon's first 3.2:




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Posted by: Series9 Jul 6 2011, 06:32 PM

Out of the box and on the stand:




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Posted by: MoveQik Jul 6 2011, 06:32 PM

Let the fun begin!

Posted by: Series9 Jul 6 2011, 06:33 PM

Leak-down numbers included one 90, one 88, two 80s, a 74 and.....



This is the worst one, but at least there's a definite reason for the effort:


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Posted by: Series9 Jul 6 2011, 06:41 PM

QUOTE(MoveQik @ Jul 6 2011, 08:32 PM) *

Let the fun begin!



I did pick this same one up in ABQ with the Vanagon. I don't remember if that was the first one or not.

Maybe this one is #1 and #4....

Posted by: mepstein Jul 6 2011, 07:32 PM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jul 6 2011, 08:33 PM) *

Leak-down numbers included one 90, one 88, two 80s, a 74 and.....



This is the worst one, but at least there's a definite reason for the effort:



Ouch$$$$

Posted by: Series9 Jul 6 2011, 07:38 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Jul 6 2011, 09:32 PM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jul 6 2011, 08:33 PM) *

Leak-down numbers included one 90, one 88, two 80s, a 74 and.....



This is the worst one, but at least there's a definite reason for the effort:



Ouch$$$$



It won't cost a penny more than the original plan. The engine is here for a top-end because it has leaky valve guides. I tried to get some pictures of the intake valves today, but it's tough to get the camera to work in that tight space. Four of the six intake valves were in the closed position when the engine arrived. The four closed valves all had puddles of oil sitting on top of them.

The heads will be rebuilt, the pistons will be re-ringed and the engine will go back together with new seals.

When it's finished, the leak-down test will show mid to high 90s across the board.


Posted by: Series9 Jul 6 2011, 07:41 PM

Nelson,

Check your thread on NARP.

I did a leak-down on your engine too..... unsure.gif

Posted by: mepstein Jul 6 2011, 08:26 PM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jul 6 2011, 09:38 PM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Jul 6 2011, 09:32 PM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jul 6 2011, 08:33 PM) *

Leak-down numbers included one 90, one 88, two 80s, a 74 and.....



This is the worst one, but at least there's a definite reason for the effort:



Ouch$$$$



It won't cost a penny more than the original plan. The engine is here for a top-end because it has leaky valve guides. I tried to get some pictures of the intake valves today, but it's tough to get the camera to work in that tight space. Four of the six intake valves were in the closed position when the engine arrived. The four closed valves all had puddles of oil sitting on top of them.

The heads will be rebuilt, the pistons will be re-ringed and the engine will go back together with new seals.

When it's finished, the leak-down test will show mid to high 90s across the board.


A pre-planned ouch$$$ biggrin.gif


Sounds like it's in good hands.

Posted by: John Jul 6 2011, 08:44 PM

Keep the pics going. I'm currently rebuilding a 3.2 as well.


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Posted by: MoveQik Jul 6 2011, 08:47 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Jul 6 2011, 07:26 PM) *


A pre-planned ouch$$$ biggrin.gif


Sounds like it's in good hands.


Exactly. All is going according to plan thus far.

Posted by: Series9 Jul 7 2011, 12:19 PM

Before disassembly, I cleaned the case on top. I'll clean the rest later.




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Posted by: Series9 Jul 7 2011, 12:22 PM

I checked the cam timing on both sides so I could get an idea as to whether or not the chains are stretched out.

They both fell in the proper range.

Then I tore it down:




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Posted by: Series9 Jul 7 2011, 12:25 PM

The heads are off to the machinist:




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Posted by: Madswede Jul 7 2011, 12:42 PM

Thanks for the pictures. I learn so much from them. I spent quite some time looking at the inline four motor in the 968 and that 16v head while it was apart, visualizing how the motor works. But a flat six is obviously something different. It's helpful (for me) to see it apart like that.

Looks like your motor's well on its way to being smoke-free Mike!

Posted by: r_towle Jul 7 2011, 03:02 PM

Joe, first off, its great to see what you are working on....lots of fun to watch.
Given you are trying to get things done, your pictures are really appreciated.
On that note, would you please post pics of any "special" tools that you might need as you use them.
The valve timing stand is one..
The rocker arms need a special tool, or special setup to get them loose/tight?

Anything else that comes to mind would be great.

Rich

Posted by: Series9 Jul 7 2011, 04:59 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jul 7 2011, 05:02 PM) *

Joe, first off, its great to see what you are working on....lots of fun to watch.
Given you are trying to get things done, your pictures are really appreciated.
On that note, would you please post pics of any "special" tools that you might need as you use them.
The valve timing stand is one..
The rocker arms need a special tool, or special setup to get them loose/tight?

Anything else that comes to mind would be great.

Rich



The 'Z block' for the dial indicator is very common in Porsche circles and is available on eBay every day.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Valve-Tool-911-Porsche-Gauge-Holder-z-block-P207- _W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem588eb3e7d8QQitemZ380351277016QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiv
eQ5fTools#ht_5400wt_1167

Your ability to use it is an acquired skill.

The rockers only require Allen keys and a long drift for removal. Obviously, you need to unload the rocker before you can drive the rocker shaft out of its bore. By 'unload', I mean turn the cam until the valve is completely closed and there is no load on the rocker arm.

Removing the nut on the sprocket-end of the cam(or bolt, depending upon the year of the engine) requires a few special tools.

If your engine was built before 1981, you need these two:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cam-Camshaft-Nut-Socket-Repair-Tools-2-Porsche- _W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem27bc6590b9QQitemZ170664497337QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiv
eQ5fTools


If your engine was built after 1981, you need:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/911-Porsche-Engine-Cam-Sprocket-Timing-Camshaft-Tool- _W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem19c1354863QQitemZ110615677027QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiv
eQ5fTools#ht_683wt_1167

Posted by: SLITS Jul 7 2011, 07:53 PM

You can use a 1/4" drive 5 mm hex alen socket to get the rockers. Know as a "stuby". $13 from Snap-On.

Posted by: Series9 Jul 7 2011, 09:51 PM

QUOTE(SLITS @ Jul 7 2011, 09:53 PM) *

You can use a 1/4" drive 5 mm hex alen socket to get the rockers. Know as a "stuby". $13 from Snap-On.



Or you can just use the regular fuckin' Allen keys in your regular tool box you stoned mother...... bootyshake.gif



I can't wait to see you in CO....

Posted by: Series9 Jul 14 2011, 06:57 PM

This is the reason Mahle piston/cylinder sets cost so much.

I estimate this engine has about 100k miles.

The gauge is set for the new diameter of the cylinder. Each mark on the dial is half a thousandth (.0005"):




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Posted by: Series9 Jul 14 2011, 07:00 PM

Turd polishing.....

We've all done it.


Wills' engine mount is ugly. The open ends were driving me crazy:





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Posted by: Series9 Jul 14 2011, 07:02 PM

Clean parts. I've spent the last two days face-down in the parts cleaner.

I need to hire somebody to do this stuff:




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Posted by: racerbvd Jul 14 2011, 07:35 PM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jul 14 2011, 05:02 PM) *

Clean parts. I've spent the last two days face-down in the parts cleaner.

I need to hire somebody to do this stuff:



Send them to my Powder Coater.....

http://www.powdertechplus.com

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Posted by: Ferg Jul 14 2011, 08:04 PM

Joe, looking great as always.

BTW thanks for the new signature quote laugh.gif

Posted by: MoveQik Jul 14 2011, 10:19 PM

QUOTE(Ferg @ Jul 14 2011, 07:04 PM) *

Joe, looking great as always.

BTW thanks for the new signature quote laugh.gif

av-943.gif fuchin ferg!

Posted by: r_towle Jul 15 2011, 06:49 AM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jul 7 2011, 11:51 PM) *

QUOTE(SLITS @ Jul 7 2011, 09:53 PM) *

You can use a 1/4" drive 5 mm hex alen socket to get the rockers. Know as a "stuby". $13 from Snap-On.



Or you can just use the regular fuckin' Allen keys in your regular tool box you stoned mother...... bootyshake.gif



I can't wait to see you in CO....

More specific question.
Getting it out...that is simple.
What are you using to set the torque when you re-assemble them?
Just tight? (Which I can handle) or are you actually setting the torque on these?

RIch

Posted by: SLITS Jul 15 2011, 07:04 AM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jul 7 2011, 08:51 PM) *

QUOTE(SLITS @ Jul 7 2011, 09:53 PM) *

You can use a 1/4" drive 5 mm hex alen socket to get the rockers. Know as a "stuby". $13 from Snap-On.



Or you can just use the regular fuckin' Allen keys in your regular tool box you stoned mother...... bootyshake.gif



I can't wait to see you in CO....


Short or long arm? rolleyes.gif I like shiny things ... regular allen wrenches are just to dull. stromberg.gif Oh shit, now I have to buy an assdragger. smoke.gif

Posted by: Series9 Jul 15 2011, 07:41 AM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jul 15 2011, 08:49 AM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jul 7 2011, 11:51 PM) *

QUOTE(SLITS @ Jul 7 2011, 09:53 PM) *

You can use a 1/4" drive 5 mm hex alen socket to get the rockers. Know as a "stuby". $13 from Snap-On.



Or you can just use the regular fuckin' Allen keys in your regular tool box you stoned mother...... bootyshake.gif



I can't wait to see you in CO....

More specific question.
Getting it out...that is simple.
What are you using to set the torque when you re-assemble them?
Just tight? (Which I can handle) or are you actually setting the torque on these?





I do those by feel. Good and tight will get it.

I'll take some pictures as I take Nelson's apart.

Posted by: Drums66 Jul 15 2011, 12:04 PM

.....Back on topic: smoke.gif smoke.gif poke.gif
(btw , nice motor mr. byron.)

Posted by: sixnotfour Jul 15 2011, 12:14 PM

QUOTE
I do those by feel. Good and tight will get it.


= Gootentight

inch lb torque wrench with slits socket

Posted by: Drums66 Jul 15 2011, 12:36 PM

.....Towle torque wrench with a Slits socket idea.gif poke.gif
sounds cool! bye1.gif (has a ring to it) don't throw it!

Posted by: J P Stein Jul 15 2011, 09:16 PM

I'm waiting to see a dial bore gauge. popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: SLITS Jul 15 2011, 10:21 PM

I do believe that on the ClubNARP thread, Joe actually has one in his hand, specing the barrel bores.

All I have are micrometers and telescopic gauges. sad.gif

Posted by: J P Stein Jul 16 2011, 07:02 AM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jul 15 2011, 06:41 AM) *


I do those by feel. Good and tight will get it.

I'll take some pictures as I take Nelson's apart.



Just a tad less than 14 ft/lbs is correct. A 1/4 drive in/lb torque wrench & proper allen end socket is a good tool. Also there is proper a sequence of tightening that will insure seal at the rocker ends ( the shaft ends do wear out). I also use RSR seals....but I'm not a "Pro".

Posted by: Series9 Jul 16 2011, 07:17 AM

QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jul 15 2011, 11:16 PM) *

I'm waiting to see a dial bore gauge. popcorn[1].gif



Here you go. This same picture was posted 15 posts ago.


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Posted by: J P Stein Jul 16 2011, 08:23 AM

I didn't recognize it. Those I use read in tenths (.0001) and are set with a super mic. The shop manal is quite specific as to where the readings on a cylinder are taken.....and max wear is not towards the top......tho your pic is not clear.

Personally, I have never seen a 100k mile cylinder that reads 0 when checking
taper & OR. Makes a nice picture tho.

I think I'll move along.

Posted by: Series9 Jul 16 2011, 07:51 PM

As a direct result of a little ribbing from Mr. Stein, I have purchased a Matco 1/4" drive 30-300in/lb torque wrench.

Expect ALL future rocker arms to be installed to the factory torque of "slightly less than 14 ft/lbs".

Do not even try to do it the way I earlier suggested..... shades.gif

I'll take pictures to prove it. You know I will. biggrin.gif

Posted by: MoveQik Jul 16 2011, 09:28 PM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Jul 16 2011, 06:51 PM) *


I'll take pictures to prove it. You know I will. biggrin.gif

But even after you do, I will ask you to post them again.

Posted by: sixnotfour Jul 16 2011, 11:35 PM

woh, I mentioned the torque wrench.
[/quote]inch lb torque wrench with slits socket[quote]

Posted by: MoveQik Jul 16 2011, 11:45 PM

QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jul 16 2011, 06:02 AM) *


Just a tad less than 14 ft/lbs is correct.


And BTW, I meant to ask Mr. Stein to clarify "a tad less". I don't want my engine half-assed. I went to the local Porsche shop and they did confirm that the factory manuals said a "tad" but they didn't know exactly what that was. They actually referred me to Mr. Stein for the exact definition of a "tad". rolleyes.gif

Posted by: SLITS Jul 17 2011, 07:51 AM

A "Tad" is learned over many years of experience, but it is an Amerikan measurement. Your torque wrench calibrated in in\lbs is useless in this application.

For German cars it must be pronounced "sehr kleine menge" and be measured in newton meters.

Posted by: J P Stein Jul 17 2011, 07:53 AM

I no longer have my books but as I recall the torque is 13.6 ft/lbs. Many folks take it higher than that.....15-20 is bandied about supposedly to stop leaks & creep.

The proper torque sequence is to hold the larger nut while bringing up torque on the 5mm(?) end. As the torque rises the held end should stop turning (the shaft is expanding) before max torque is reached. If the held end does not stop turning, the shaft is no good and needs to be replaced. I make sure to have a few *new* spares standing by (they're fairly cheep) and have used more than one. Never abrade the charp edges on the end chamfers.
They are ment to dig into the aluminum of the cam towers....but not to the point of permanently deforming the bores, IMO.

The above is right out of B. Anderson's book and I've never had a leaky or creeping rocker shaft using this method/torque.

The RSR seals are hella expensive from Pelican, however, if you go to that engine rebuild forum, guys find them much cheeper. Do a search. Normally I like to trade there (22 bucks for a rocker shaft) but 4.5 bucks each for an effin' O ring is just a bit much....24 needed. They come cast together in a "tree" of 12, IIRC.

Lot of BS for sumthin' that should be simple, eh?

BTW, Jeff brought up the torque wrench first. He knows his 911 motor stuff as well as anyone on this forum....prolly better than me. He's just quieter. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Series9 Jul 27 2011, 04:47 PM

The heads should be on the way back any day now, so the reassembly has begun.

I started the day with cylinder deglazing. For being so high tech, Nikasil cylinders are deglazed in a very low tech way.

Get a maroon Scotch Brite pad (#7447) and some soapy water. Use a circular motion that approximates the cross-hatching of the cylinder wall:




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Posted by: Series9 Jul 27 2011, 04:52 PM

Then I cleaned up the pistons, reringed them and started the assembly:




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Posted by: Series9 Jul 27 2011, 05:00 PM

The day did have a small snag.

One of the packs of rings had been previously opened. When I pulled out the top compression ring, I noticed right away that it wasn't right.

Check it out. The first picture shows the supposed "new" ring with a gap of .043". That's well in excess of the wear limit of .031".

The second picture shows one of the old rings for reference. Still in spec at .025", but that's still over twice the average new gap of .012".


A real new one is on the way.




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Posted by: Series9 Aug 4 2011, 02:01 PM

Parts and head bling:




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Posted by: Series9 Aug 4 2011, 02:04 PM

I expected stamps from the rebuilder, but how cool is this:




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Posted by: Series9 Aug 4 2011, 02:05 PM

She'll be buttoned up by Saturday.

Paper weights any one?


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Posted by: Madswede Aug 4 2011, 02:39 PM

Dayum. shades.gif Now THAT is beautiful.

Posted by: MoveQik Aug 4 2011, 08:28 PM

Ooooooooo giggity! beerchug.gif

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 5 2011, 07:46 AM

(swap the 2.4 for that... he'll never know)

Posted by: MoveQik Aug 5 2011, 08:15 AM

QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Aug 5 2011, 06:46 AM) *

(swap the 2.4 for that... he'll never know)

I would know something was up if I could suddenly no longer outrun your car. bootyshake.gif

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 5 2011, 08:34 AM

Suddenly? Keep it up... I'll spray my rock curtain on you to keep you at bay.

Posted by: Madswede Aug 6 2011, 11:45 AM

Sitting here eating lunch prior to band practice, and I caught Joe (Series9) hard at work on Wills' motor. Webcam fun. bye1.gif


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Posted by: MoveQik Aug 7 2011, 05:25 PM

Got my parts back from powder coating and the engine bay with a fresh coat of paint. MUCH more clean without the insulation pad. wub.gif Gotta have a clean house for the engine to go back into when Joe comes out with my motor.

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Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 8 2011, 09:37 AM

Nice! smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: John Aug 8 2011, 10:47 PM

QUOTE(Series9 @ Aug 4 2011, 12:04 PM) *

I expected stamps from the rebuilder, but how cool is this:



It's looking good so far, but...

Please don't put stamps on sealing surfaces. Anywhere else is fine.

I'm just saying.

Posted by: MoveQik Aug 8 2011, 11:07 PM

QUOTE(John @ Aug 8 2011, 09:47 PM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Aug 4 2011, 12:04 PM) *

I expected stamps from the rebuilder, but how cool is this:



It's looking good so far, but...

Please don't put stamps on sealing surfaces. Anywhere else is fine.

I'm just saying.

My experience with Joe so far is that he generally chunks up all surfaces that are to be mated but then uses a really good silicone to seal it up. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: euro911 Aug 9 2011, 12:12 AM

popcorn[1].gif

Looking good!

Posted by: Series9 Aug 9 2011, 08:54 AM

QUOTE(John @ Aug 9 2011, 12:47 AM) *

QUOTE(Series9 @ Aug 4 2011, 12:04 PM) *

I expected stamps from the rebuilder, but how cool is this:



It's looking good so far, but...

Please don't put stamps on sealing surfaces. Anywhere else is fine.

I'm just saying.



The stamp is tiny and I'm sure that if it had caused problems in the past, the rebuilder wouldn't have done it.

I seal that flange with Threebond 1194. It's not going to leak.

Posted by: Series9 Aug 10 2011, 02:28 PM

I'm waiting on a couple of pieces from the powder coater, but the engine is finished:




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Posted by: Series9 Aug 11 2011, 01:04 PM

The powder coating came back, so now we're really finished:


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Posted by: Series9 Aug 11 2011, 01:07 PM

This will be the last entry until I arrive in PHX on the 24th.

Into the "shipping department" and then the real Porsche engine crate.

How's that for classy:






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Posted by: AZ914 Aug 11 2011, 01:30 PM

piratenanner.gif

Posted by: euro911 Aug 11 2011, 02:28 PM

What? ... the motor weighs less than 110 lbs? confused24.gif

Posted by: JmuRiz Aug 11 2011, 02:31 PM

Nope, just can't put more than 50kg on top of the engine crate.

BTW: What's up with that engine mount, haven't seen one like that.

Posted by: Series9 Aug 11 2011, 02:42 PM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Aug 11 2011, 04:28 PM) *

What? ... the motor weighs less than 110 lbs? confused24.gif



That's how much weight you can put on top of the crate. screwy.gif

Posted by: euro911 Aug 11 2011, 02:56 PM

headbang.gif Ok guys, I guess I really deserved that. I'll look a little closer at the arrows before sticking foot in mouth next time

laugh.gif

Posted by: Series9 Aug 11 2011, 05:06 PM

QUOTE(JmuRiz @ Aug 11 2011, 04:31 PM) *

Nope, just can't put more than 50kg on top of the engine crate.

BTW: What's up with that engine mount, haven't seen one like that.



It's one version of the often maligned 'Quick Six' style engine mount. There's no magic to it. It bolts to the /6 engine and bolts to the /4 mounts on the car.

Some people say that a firewall mount is the only real way to mount a /6.

I say that there is absolutely nothing fundamentally wrong with using the very substantial /4 mounting structures on the chassis to hold a /6. However, not all of these bars are created equally. You need to use your judgment.

The one on Wills' engine would carry a city bus. It's very heavy.

Posted by: MoveQik Aug 18 2011, 09:39 PM

Its back home. Final reassembly starts tomorrow. rocking nana.gif




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Posted by: Kirmizi Aug 18 2011, 09:41 PM

Nice aktion035.gif
Mike

Posted by: JRust Aug 18 2011, 10:02 PM

Killer Mike! Get that sucker in there

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 19 2011, 06:19 AM

How exciting is that! I look forward to seeing the install pictures and hearing it run. Nice trailer BTW.

Posted by: MoveQik Aug 21 2011, 12:13 PM

This is as far as I have made it since getting the motor back. I had hoped to be further along by now but my weekend is wrapped up with clients. I get the fuel rails back from powder coating tomorrow so I hope to have the motor done by the end of the day Monday.

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Posted by: mepstein Aug 21 2011, 12:57 PM

I would sure appreciate if you could document the fuel injection rebuild. I can use all the help I can get for when I put mine back together.

Posted by: jasons Aug 21 2011, 01:57 PM

I knew you could put that together. Who did you use for PC, Arizona PC?

Posted by: MoveQik Aug 21 2011, 06:37 PM

QUOTE(jasons @ Aug 21 2011, 12:57 PM) *

I knew you could put that together. Who did you use for PC, Arizona PC?

Yup. They did a real nice job.

It can breathe fresh air again....




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Posted by: MoveQik Aug 21 2011, 06:39 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Aug 21 2011, 11:57 AM) *

I would sure appreciate if you could document the fuel injection rebuild. I can use all the help I can get for when I put mine back together.

What do you need and I'll try to get pics.

Posted by: mepstein Aug 21 2011, 08:17 PM

QUOTE(MoveQik @ Aug 21 2011, 08:39 PM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Aug 21 2011, 11:57 AM) *

I would sure appreciate if you could document the fuel injection rebuild. I can use all the help I can get for when I put mine back together.

What do you need and I'll try to get pics.


I took it apart and took pictures but I'm sure there is a preferred method of assembly. Any tips, trick or suggestions are appreciated. I'm sure there are suggested torque values. I also don't remember were the wires go on the alternator.

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Aug 21 2011, 08:41 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Aug 21 2011, 07:17 PM) *

QUOTE(MoveQik @ Aug 21 2011, 08:39 PM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Aug 21 2011, 11:57 AM) *

I would sure appreciate if you could document the fuel injection rebuild. I can use all the help I can get for when I put mine back together.

What do you need and I'll try to get pics.


I took it apart and took pictures but I'm sure there is a preferred method of assembly. Any tips, trick or suggestions are appreciated. I'm sure there are suggested torque values. I also don't remember were the wires go on the alternator.


Wait? What? You're asking Wills for advice?? av-943.gif happy11.gif

Posted by: MoveQik Aug 21 2011, 09:45 PM

QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Aug 21 2011, 07:41 PM) *


Wait? What? You're asking Wills for advice?? av-943.gif happy11.gif


Its a whole new world these days Ell-yut. You don't need quarters to make phone calls, you can't smoke on airplanes, sometimes women are in leadership roles...you better get used to it old man. bootyshake.gif

Posted by: jeeperjohn56 Aug 22 2011, 02:50 AM

Mike, What kind of air tube are you using for your intake? Is they a model number from K&N Did you have to modified it to fit in the engine bay? I'm using 3.2 also. John

Posted by: MoveQik Aug 22 2011, 07:40 AM

QUOTE(jeeperjohn56 @ Aug 22 2011, 01:50 AM) *

Mike, What kind of air tube are you using for your intake? Is they a model number from K&N Did you have to modified it to fit in the engine bay? I'm using 3.2 also. John

Joe fabbed it up using an exhaust pipe from flaps, IIRC. There is no model number on the filter, but it is not K&N. It straps on with no modification. I am going to get a new one today, I'll send you the exact part number.

Posted by: MoveQik Aug 22 2011, 11:54 AM

So the plastic bushing on the shifter fell apart a couple of years ago while on a road trip. Luckily the broken pieces stayed in the plastic cover. I had some JB Weld in the tool box and fixed it to get home without issue. That half-assed repair lasted until now. Patrick makes this little solution. No more plastic.




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Posted by: jeeperjohn56 Aug 22 2011, 02:48 PM

Thanks Mike, I'll be looking for your information on the new air intake,Also the bushing your showing for your shifter rod, are you saying it's from Patrick MotorSports? that look's like a great fix. John

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 22 2011, 10:14 PM

QUOTE(MoveQik @ Aug 21 2011, 09:45 PM) *

QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Aug 21 2011, 07:41 PM) *


Wait? What? You're asking Wills for advice?? av-943.gif happy11.gif


Its a whole new world these days Ell-yut. You don't need quarters to make phone calls, you can't smoke on airplanes, sometimes women are in leadership roles...you better get used to it old man. bootyshake.gif


I think I got this from one of Tabor's emails...

The top rapper is white and the president is black. We can add... Wills is giving fuel injection how-to pictorials. WTF.gif blink.gif

Posted by: MoveQik Aug 24 2011, 07:13 AM

Fuel rails, on.

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Porsche technician at work.

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Ready to go.

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Posted by: Series9 Aug 24 2011, 07:38 AM

Currently cruising at FL340.

Be there soon.

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Aug 24 2011, 12:27 PM

The engine looks great. Does this mean I have to give up my "best engine bay" award? lol-2.gif

Posted by: StratPlayer Aug 24 2011, 04:43 PM

BAD ASS beerchug.gif first.gif first.gif

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 27 2011, 07:10 AM

Nice work. biggrin.gif

Posted by: MoveQik Aug 27 2011, 11:52 AM

In. Done. beerchug.gif

Really happy with the way this came out. It drives great, sounds great and its purdy too. wub.gif In the end, the only hiccups were from things that I did while Joe had the motor. wacko.gif

Lessons learned here:

Thermostats - it is very easy to screw up the mating surfaces. headbang.gif

When powder coating, be more specific when telling the guys what to mask off.

Make sure your axle is ABOVE the header before you mount the header. headbang.gif

When disconnecting CV joints, be careful that they don't fall apart. That creates a lot more work. headbang.gif

Now, it is time to driving.gif

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Posted by: BMITCHELL Aug 27 2011, 11:58 AM

Good work guys, now go have some fun driving.gif

Posted by: MDG Aug 27 2011, 12:12 PM

Nice guys - looks fantastic. Great work Joe! thumb3d.gif

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 27 2011, 03:12 PM

One of my favorite cars.

Posted by: ellisor3 Aug 27 2011, 03:26 PM

Very nice, Joe does great work.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 27 2011, 07:53 PM

Very very nice. I want to look in my engine compartment and see something like that one day. Congratulations.

Posted by: JRust Aug 27 2011, 09:12 PM

Frickin beautiful Mike!

Posted by: MoveQik Aug 28 2011, 01:22 AM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Aug 27 2011, 06:53 PM) *

Very very nice. I want to look in my engine compartment and see something like that one day. Congratulations.

Thanks! Well if you do....you have the added bonus of being a *real* six. smile.gif

Posted by: MoveQik Aug 28 2011, 01:25 AM

QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Aug 27 2011, 02:12 PM) *

One of my favorite cars.

Thanks E. Your name came up today....now don't let it go to your head. Talking about the different exhaust sounds and I put your ass dragger as my #1 favorite car regarding a killer exhaust note. I still remember when I "let" you pass me and hearing the note that your car has that sound that can not be duplicated. biggrin.gif beerchug.gif

Posted by: Rod Aug 28 2011, 08:28 AM

I wish you were over here in the UK - I'd give you my ££ Tomorrow smile.gif

Posted by: AZ914 Aug 28 2011, 09:41 AM

I was up in PHX this weekend with Mike and Joe and Joe and I'm telling you, the pictures do not do it justice. It looks incredible.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 28 2011, 11:33 AM

QUOTE
I still remember when I "let" you pass me and hearing the note that your car has that sound that can not be duplicated.


That motor is out, in capable hands, getting twin plugged. Next time you hear it will be when you "let" my 914 pass you... biggrin.gif

It will be going through headers and a sport exhaust though (which you'll see from the back) and should sound a tad different. lol3.gif

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 28 2011, 11:35 AM

Eric Lowe has it on YouTube I believe...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSOOX_qZgY0&sns

Posted by: Series9 Aug 28 2011, 11:42 AM

QUOTE(Rod @ Aug 28 2011, 10:28 AM) *

I wish you were over here in the UK - I'd give you my ££ Tomorrow smile.gif



Fly me over. beerchug.gif

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