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Posted by: VOX Jul 20 2011, 12:06 PM

so i purchased the heater hose from renegade, its no longer the gates green stripe with the helical wire, they are now using NAPA yellow stripe hose, with polyester reinforcement fyi to those who are thinking about it. i got two lengths of 1 1/4"

anyways i am about to mount the hosing however i am unsure of how to hold it underneath the car, do you guys use self tapping screws? or a bolt/nut combo? rivets? weld on the straps? im uncertain on whats the best option.

Posted by: pete Jul 20 2011, 12:13 PM

There is heater hose in my future too and was wondering if there is a better way to route the hose. Seems dicy having it just hanging out under a already low car. Has anyone routed it in the cockpit?

Posted by: Phoenix-MN Jul 20 2011, 12:15 PM

I used solid metal lines but the same idea applies. I welded nuts to the bottom of the car

http://www.phoenixhobbies.com/html/cooling.html

Posted by: ventedrib Jul 20 2011, 12:23 PM

Rivets are fine I have the gates hoses and rivets 3 years 25k miles 0 issues

Posted by: charliew Jul 20 2011, 12:33 PM

Rivnuts, metric, if you are anal. If you do use rivnuts be sure and use never sieze so the bolt doesn't try to turn the nut when you need to remove them. I have had rivnuts turn in their hole if they rust up.

Posted by: Phoenix-MN Jul 20 2011, 12:40 PM

That's why I welded the nuts

Posted by: kg6dxn Jul 20 2011, 12:49 PM

I used adel clamps with extra shrink tubing. Check the link in my signatue.

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Jul 20 2011, 01:11 PM

lots of options here.... glavanized conduit hangers work well and although the metal tubing looks nice and will disapate some heat, I've bottomed out on some speed bumps more than once and the flexible hose works better since it will rebound and not stay flat and pinch the flow.

Posted by: stewteral Jul 20 2011, 01:28 PM

Hey Vox,

Before I did my V8 conversion, I drove a car with metal water pipes running under the car. As I drove slowly out of the parking lot, the pipes dragged for abou 2 ft! Right there I understood that running RUBBER or metal pipes UNDER the car was a disaster waiting to happen.

On my car, I ran 1-1/4" copper tubing THROUGH the middle of the shift tunnel. With a 45 deg. bend up and another back over, I found that there was plenty of room to plumb to the front trunk Under the fuel tank. I sweat the copper pipe pieces together and it has worked flawlessly for 9 years, even with my 400 lb rear springs on the track!.

The only caveat is that I had to cut the top of the shift tunnel open to get access.
I slid PVC tubing around the outside of the copper runs for wear protection and then closed the tunnel with aluminum sheet, pop-riveted in place.

If you're interested, I have photos of how I did it.

OK, so that's more than you want to do.....then the next best answer is to run the tubes under the rocker panels where they won't get crunched or torn out!
The rubber hose is easy, but will last for a limited time. I would go with a metal tube with access at each end to attach and replace the hose connections when the get old. Thin wall steel tubing would work: paint the outside and the antifreeze should keep it from rusting on the inside.

Another choice would be copper tubing which would allow you to sweat bends on
to fit your application better.

Best,
Terry

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 20 2011, 01:36 PM

Terry, Your car is insanely low isnt it?

I have mine with 23" ground to fender and I dont rub any lines (my tires rub...).

I did the same as Mike did with Adel clamps. I used extra hose to make them fit tight if they were loose.

Posted by: pete Jul 20 2011, 01:38 PM

This is what I was thinking. Do you have pics you can share Terry?

Posted by: VOX Jul 20 2011, 01:46 PM

i've actually considered running them through the tunnel, as well as the behind the rocker panels, however i'd prefer to not cut into the center tunnel. also in order to get it behind the rockers, it goes through my wheel well, which i really dont like, as i have 7" wide rims and i dont want them hitting the hose. if i were to go through the center then behind the rockers, that would defeat the purpose as it already hangs low. one option that i did like was the hard lines through the longs, however that seems like a nightmare on its own for doing any repairs. the way i see it, yes it is susceptible to more dmg underneath the car, but repairing it wont be as difficult. and i've already bought the hoses so theres no turning back now haha. however thanks for the information guys.

currently i am leaning towards normal rivets with the conduit hangers, as i dont have much skill in upside down welding. the way i figure it is if i need to remove the hose for any reason, drill out the rivet, and pop new ones back in.

the rivnuts are interesting, but i would need a notching tool, so im thinking either normal rivets or maybe rivnuts.

also the hoses wouldnt even be the lowest point of the car, as the engine bar hangs lower, then the oil pan is a little above that.

Posted by: JRust Jul 20 2011, 02:13 PM

I just used some self taping screws. It's worked fine for me even through multiple changes. While I never wanted to open the center tunnel to put the water lines through. When I got min they were run through the heater hose area trhough the longs. Just adds to many peaks & high points tommake burping the system a PITA. I had considered running them right next to the center tunnel on the passenger side. Then putting a cap over it so it wouldn't get things to hot or burn a passenger. My car sits fairly low & has scrapped a few times. Caused no problems with my Rubber hoses though.

Posted by: ewdysar Jul 20 2011, 02:43 PM

I'll throw in my vote for the rubber hose fastened underneath with conduit clamps and rivets. Renegade has done this on well more than a hundred conversions, including mine, and they seem to be working well. Fast, easy and effective. I know how easy it is for us to overthink things, many of the other suggestions sound pretty slick, but may not work any better than the quick answer. Like someone else mentioned, hard lines under the car can crimp closed when going over a high spot. The rubber lines pop right back into the proper shape. My hose is 6 years old and still in great shape.

Posted by: DBCooper Jul 20 2011, 05:25 PM

I have rubber hoses under the car, car's very low, and I've scraped them seriously a number of times. If those had been hard lines they'd be flat now, but that hose is a lot more rugged than you'd think. I need to straighten up some of the conduit hangers, but other than that there's no sign of damage whatsoever. I have a cable shifter so no special problem to route the hoses through the tunnel, nothing much in there, but I don't see a need for it.

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Jul 20 2011, 05:37 PM

I've had rubber hoses under the car for almost 10yrs now and 30k miles with no problems. I did rip a couple of the clamps off when I loaded into a car hauler trailer, but that was my own fault. Didn't have the ramp door set up right


Bob

Posted by: stewteral Jul 20 2011, 06:32 PM

Hey Andyrew,

The car I drove, nor is my car set at a low ride height! I measure ground clearance from the under-belly pan "Bumps" and my car sits at 5.5". In fact,
if you've read previous posting from a couple months ago, I CAUTION against
lowering the car much as it MESSES up the suspension setting, as designed!

What I didn't share with the "test drive" car was that it was the absolute WORST CASE parking lot-to-street situation with a concrete PEAK leaving the lot and then dropping into the street. I'm just saying, that there IS a risk that could spoil your day. A risk I decided to engineer around.

So as Ol' Clint said: "So are YOU feeling Lucky?"


Best,
Terry

Posted by: stewteral Jul 20 2011, 07:01 PM

Hey VOX,

I hear you on cutting the center tunnel. First, I should share that I'm comfortable do ANYTHING I want to do the the car to achieve my results. I've been racing and working on cars for 40+ years and have a decent shop to support me.

The most important addition to my shop was a wire-feed welder! With that in hand, I can cut and reweld anywhere. So that's me and not most guys.

The concern I have is that UNEXPECTED driveway or pot hot that disembowls your cooling hoses. If you are a VERY AWARE driver then you would notice the sound, followed by the spray of water behind the car. However, I believe you are a ADULT and master of you life and decisions.

So it comes down to "roll the dice" and 99% of the time you will be fine! For my car, since I was planning running it on-track, I kinew there could be the situation where bottom mounted cooling could bite me. For instance, during my last track day 25 June at Streets of Willow, in the afternoon, the track got hot and very greasy. In the top end of the track in 3rd gear, I lost the rear-end. Eventhough I stayed on-track and kept the engine running, I grabbed 1st and DOVE off-track to make sure I would be T-Boned! Once off-track, I was surprised how nasty & bumpy the desert was. However, NO Worries: I just had to keep the tires from being punctured.

At the end of the day, I want to best for your project and the MOST fun with it without problems.

BTW: There is another benefit to opening up the center tunnel: cleaning up 30+
years of grim and rust! Once inside: It was Scary!!

Best,
Terry

Posted by: stewteral Jul 20 2011, 07:07 PM

Hi Pete,

I'm glad to see there is ANOTHER Crazy, willing to CHOP his beloved 914 with NO Guilt!!




Attached image(s)

Posted by: stewteral Jul 20 2011, 07:18 PM

Hey DBCooper,

Thanks for verifying that the underside of the car WILL be scraped, occasionally.
I'm pleased to hear the rubber hose can "take the beating & keep on ticking."

While not what I want to worry about, I'm glad to see there is LIFE after
SCRAPING!

Terry

Posted by: stewteral Jul 20 2011, 07:31 PM

Hey Pete,

Photos, part deux:

Posted by: kg6dxn Jul 20 2011, 07:45 PM

Adel Clamps are cheap. $11 for 25 pack.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#adel-clamps/=d9kcrr

Posted by: Joedubs Jul 21 2011, 12:17 PM

terry,
Have you noticed any unwanted heat in the cabin, having those copper lines running pretty darn close to your legs and rear section

I've been leaning towards a setup like this for my coolant runs, and that was my only concern.

Posted by: porsche913b_sp Jul 21 2011, 10:44 PM

Maybe my friend will chime in. He had it in the center tunnel and it was hot. I guess it would been nice during the winter with the bonus of a heater. But in the summer, man, it became unbearable. My vote is the rubber lines under the car.

Posted by: kg6dxn Jul 21 2011, 10:51 PM

I had hoses in the center tunnel of my last 914 V8. I hated it during the summer. I like the fact that it was out of harms way but it transfered way too much heat inside.

Posted by: strawman Jul 21 2011, 11:57 PM

I just posted a picture of my underbody rubber hose setup. See post #204 in http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=83031&st=200. I sqeezed the hoses above the front aluminum suspension crossbar and below the steering rack. You can see where the hoses enter the frunk in the same post. Mine isn't running yet, so I'd rely more on the words of others who have been running this same setup...