Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: p914 Aug 7 2011, 06:33 PM

I remember something about grounds separating when hot. (ie hot/cold short)

It will push start.
I can hear the fuel pump and the radio and dash lights come on but the engine won't turn.

Posted by: r_towle Aug 7 2011, 06:45 PM

dirty grounds

Posted by: p914 Aug 7 2011, 06:47 PM

Dirty grounds on? battery, starter, etc?

Posted by: r_towle Aug 7 2011, 06:50 PM

battery, (both posts), tranny strap.
The issue is you have a 40 year old starter that is drawing more current with age and corrosion.
Clean up the starter and all will be fine.

You can use the "hot start" setup which is a ford relay, but its just masking the issues.

Rich

Posted by: p914 Aug 7 2011, 06:51 PM

Thanks, I'll try cleaning the tranny strap, I already cleaned the posts and the starter is only a couple years old.

Posted by: p914 Aug 7 2011, 07:49 PM

Well it was the neg battery connection on the post. I recleaned both sides of one of the connections and it starts now. I did clean the strap although since the engine was rebuilt 2 years ago it was still pretty clean but I did it anyway,.

Thanks Rich!

Posted by: Razorbobsr Aug 13 2011, 11:59 AM

I currently have the same issue after driving 70 miles, engine wont start. Had same prob comming back from FL 2 yrs ago. Hit starter and zippppppppp nothing at all, tach gos to 7000, but no starter engagment. Did and has started many times, when cold, but not after you really build a fire in the engine. All ground straps are good. Thoughts? Bob

Posted by: Kirmizi Aug 13 2011, 12:22 PM

Like Ron (SLITS) mentioned in the other thread, check your ignition switch.
All sorts of funky things can happen if it's bad.
Mike

Posted by: nsr-jamie Aug 14 2011, 08:09 AM

Does this problem only happen in the summer? Does your car have carbs or injection? I am thinking carbs.....

Posted by: Razorbobsr Aug 14 2011, 09:48 AM

Carbed 2L engine, no starter engagement is the prob. Bob

Posted by: p914 Aug 14 2011, 11:10 AM

SDS EFI. no carbs

Posted by: SUNAB914 Aug 14 2011, 01:04 PM

ignition switch or bad ground.

Posted by: stewteral Aug 14 2011, 01:26 PM

Hey p914,

After you check all the previous GOOD suggestions and have no improvement,
you might look into an MSD ignition box. I've had one running on my 383 Chevy conversion and it fires EVERY TIME even when the old starter was weak!

My thought is that when the starter turns over it draws 300 Amps and thus may starve you old stock ignition of enough voltage to generate a good spark. The situation is exacerbated by heat that effects the coil.

Best of luck,
Terry

Posted by: KELTY360 Aug 14 2011, 01:47 PM

The Ford solenoid hot start solution worked well for me.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=53918&hl=ford%20solenoid&st=0

Posted by: p914 Aug 14 2011, 02:06 PM

Thanks Terry, I already have an MSD on mine. I'm thinking ground or ignition switch at this point. I was out the other day after I had cleaned my connections at the battery and strap (to which I got the thing to start and thought....problem solved) and it happened again.

My engine was rebuilt about 2 years ago and it's SDS EFI 2.7L with MSD. The starter is also about 2 years old. The ignition switch however, I don't know. I believe it's the same one I've always had. I'm going to check the wiring to my battery and maybe redo all the cables and connections to see what happens.

Posted by: Drums66 Aug 14 2011, 02:26 PM

.......that's a good place to start!

Posted by: p914 Oct 17 2011, 09:32 PM

Well, the mystery issue reared its ugly little head last week and I finally nailed it. I turn the key in the ignition. Turn on the headlights and turn the key to crank and the headlights go out and no crank. The troubleshooting section of the manual sez there is a loose connection problem. Sho nuff, the little brown wire on the solenoid was having a hot cold short issue. Even though i thought I had it licked back a while ago having cleaned the connections to the starter and solenoid with no success and then cleaning the negative battery terminal connectors and experiencing success. (thought it was that battery connector...BUT NOOOOOOoooooooo)

So, let's hope this thang is licked now.

Posted by: Tom Oct 18 2011, 04:20 AM

Little brown wire on the solenoid? Starter solenoid has a large yellow- to spade terminal, larger red and very large black on nutted post. No brown! Maybe someone did some rewiring that is becoming defective.
Tom

Posted by: SUNAB914 Oct 18 2011, 08:02 AM

Remember, when ignition switch cools again, it will all work like normal, but this situation will continue to degrade over time.

Posted by: p914 Oct 18 2011, 02:21 PM

I let the car sit for the weekend and tried to start it but no go. So the switch was cooled for about 3 days. Only time will tell.

Posted by: Tom Oct 18 2011, 03:21 PM

For you folks who want to know more about solenoids, you can google ( aeroelectric.com ) for a good explanation of how the starter circuit works. I have asked for the specifications on the key switch from Pelican and we'll see if the stock switch was made to handle 35 amps. The article even points out than many foreign cars have a poorly designed starting circuit.
Personally I am putting in a relay at the relay board to cut down the key switch current for starting from 35 amps to 140 mili-amps. I feel if I don't, it is just a matter of time before the key switch gives up. Not the Ford relay, something less intrusive.
Tom

Posted by: p914 Oct 18 2011, 04:21 PM

Coincidentally, my 09 HHR SS had the ignition switch go out on it yesterday too. Fortunately it was a warranty deal, but, the car is at my brother's in FLA and he called me at 6 in the morning to tell me that the car would not turn off after he pulled it in the driveway to get it off the street. Ya gotta wonder about all those ignition switches.

Posted by: Razorbobsr Oct 18 2011, 05:10 PM

I had the same 'Starting while HOT' prob, I went to a high tourqe starter, 350 on a HOT day, NP. Bob

Posted by: p914 Oct 21 2011, 07:36 PM

Wellllll, The issue reared its ugly head again the other day. I finally was able to get it into a shop I used long ago and the issue was 2 fold.
There was a poor solder joint at the battery's positive lead from when I had the engine rebuilt 2 years ago. Second was the Terminal 50 wire from the ignition switch to the starter.. There was a break under the passenger seat relay. R&R and tested and it now works like it should. They had to tear out the seats and console to follow the whole wire cluster to find the short and break.

So problem finally solved...... Good thing, because I move to Delray Beach, Florida next week.