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Posted by: sgomes Jul 8 2004, 10:47 PM

I've always wanted to learn how to weld -- even before I bought a 914

I see a lot of you on here weld and I'm just wondering how you learned. Community college? work? Just bought a welder and went for it? I've searched the local community colleges and couldn't find any classes. I'm in the bay area so if any locals know of a particular place to go I'd love to hear it.

I'm thinking mostly towards MIG. I'd love to learn TIG (mainly to do aluminum) but I've heard over and over that it's pretty hard.

Shannon

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 8 2004, 10:53 PM

I just practiced...

Taking a JC class would be fun and easy..

Andrew

Posted by: Martin Baker Jul 8 2004, 11:05 PM

Bought a book, and a wire feed welder and started reading/doing, my Dad has been a welder for 30 years, he gave me some tips as well. Pratice was his main advice, on scrap, just making basic welds, learning to puddle and backfill the bead ( small circles), in rows. This was all after I called and found out the rates were $100.00 an hour for a welder here. The book was OK, but I never found it to be as helpful to me as watching how the metal reacts while you are actually welding. To see how the metals flow together, and how the different feed and power setting make the process change. I used metal the same thickness of the metal I was going to actually weld on the 914. When my Dad looked at the metal thickness of the 914 battery tray area, he told me it was going to be a difficult process with the welder I bought. I used a thin guage wire, and low settings and a medium feed speed, with short spot type welds, that were spaced out to allow cooling of the surrounding area. It turned out great. I was very proud of my accomplishment after I was finished. Good Luck.

Posted by: Lawrence Jul 8 2004, 11:10 PM

I had a buddy (professsional welder/fabricator) teach me for about 30 minutes. He let me practice on his setup for another hour.

Voila!

-Rusty

Posted by: sgomes Jul 8 2004, 11:13 PM

That's two votes for just buying a welder and going for it. I kinda like that idea. I just worry that I'll be missing out on some big technical detail where my welds look fine to me but mechanically they suck. I guess my next stop should be Amazon to see if there are any good books to read.

I doubt I'll ever do too much welding on my 914. It's a rust bucket and could use some welding but mostly I just find many times when I wish I could fab up a quick rack/brace/box/etc or make small repairs around the ranch.

Shannon

Posted by: skline Jul 8 2004, 11:13 PM

I took it at ROP in high school and then got a job doing it 10 hours a day for 4 days a week, back then I was making about 500 a week which in the late 70's was pretty good money for a guy still in his teens. It only lasted about 10 months as I burned the hell out of my eyes and felt that my vision was more important than money. I have still been doing it off and on since. Its not hard to do, like everyone will tell you, practice will make you better at it.

Posted by: Air_Cooled_Nut Jul 8 2004, 11:29 PM

First learned in metal shop in high school. Later in life I bought a MIG and a couple books on welding and practiced, practiced, practiced. I then took an autobody restoration class and practiced more. Then a JC class that was only about welding (MIG, gas, stick, plasma). Little projects help keep me going and welding patches on cars helps bring in a little money (and more practice )

Posted by: Mrs. K Jul 8 2004, 11:32 PM

I had an old boyfriend teach me back in the late '70's. He was a welder by trade, and taught me to gas and arch weld. I even helped them weld a sauna tank and did better than the guys!

Then, because I already had some experience, I took a creative welding class at a community college for fun and practice. Like the other members have said, it is pretty easy, just be safe and practice a bit and viola!

Go for it!
Lisa

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 8 2004, 11:35 PM

took classes in school. that was in the days before videogames and tekkno.
yeah i know, i'm old ...

the crucible in oakland has great welding classes!
http://www.thecrucible.org/

http://www.thecrucible.org/classes/welding.html

Andy

Posted by: smrz914 Jul 9 2004, 12:16 AM

Well i took a class but i'm not saying i know how to weld. I didn't get to finnish all the projects in the class since the teacher was kicked out2/4 of the way through the semester. and I havn't been able to practice since. I would say take a class b/c there are things tha the teacher can show you, things you can't read in a book. In my class we did multiple kinds of welds using different types of welding machines. started with gas then stick then mig and if you flew through that stuff you could probably get started on tig. We also learned about gas cutting. The worst part of the class were the mistakes in the book.

Posted by: trekkor Jul 9 2004, 12:18 AM

High scholl auto shop- stick welder.

I've done tons of little projects for myself: roof rack, trailers, big boss BBQ, chassis stiff kit, I need to weld in my rear sway bar mounts next week.

A buddy of mine owns has a shop just outta Napa. He lets me use his wire feed and plasma cutter anytime I want.
He's cool

Many late, late nighters...

Posted by: thesey914 Jul 9 2004, 12:56 AM

Just bought a quality MIG and went for it. Helps if you know someone who is 'good' so you can watch and listen for the different fizzing sounds.
One of those auto react masks is very helpful too as you can actually see what you're doing.
-J

Posted by: morphenspectra Jul 9 2004, 01:16 AM

my wife hiedi taught me how on a stick welder.and still is a much better welder than me.took me afternoon to kinda get it,and a few weeks of practice to get pretty good.

Posted by: ablose58 Jul 9 2004, 01:26 AM

I initially learned from my brother that used to build subs and he had his own fab shop. Then I went on to welding in a cheese plant in Pa. doing stainless both mig and sanitary tig and so on, now I can pretty much weld anything that is put in front of me. Like most of the other people said,practice practice practice, alot of it is all in your technique and having some decent equipment AL

Posted by: nebreitling Jul 9 2004, 01:31 AM

you can learn to mig in 15 minutes. have someone there just to get you started, you'll take it from there.

Posted by: Otmar Jul 9 2004, 01:52 AM

The MIG is also known as a "glue gun" since it's about as easy to use as one.

I knew gas welding from high school, and started MIG on the floor of this http://www.EVCL.com/vw/Main/oldstretch.jpg. By the time I was doing the underside on my back is was easy enough to do.

You seem to be local, I've been know to give a five minute MIG lesson to those who want to learn, then I just let them play with scrap for a while. Seems to work well. Let me know if you want to come play.

Posted by: majkos Jul 9 2004, 06:35 AM

Like what everybody says,Practice!
One big advise though! Prep work!!!!
Helps to have a clean weld by taking time to CLEAN the metal wherever you're gonna weld.
Keeps the splattering to a mim. and wear welding stuffs(leather clothes,!Jeans-ok)
If doing a lot of weld,do not have too much skin expose,(your arms) it can get sunburn! A good eye shield,proper tinted glass is importent.Once done a lot of welding,only to wake up the next day,not being able to handle daylight! (Borrowed welding mask)never again,ouch!

Posted by: rick 918-S Jul 9 2004, 07:19 AM

When I was 18 I landed a good job working for a pre-fab home builder. (the year I met Sandy ) But that wasn't my calling. After I got into a fist fight with my dad and and left home I quit the carpenter thing and enrolled in welding school. I found an apartment down the alley from Sandy's Mom's place. We just about starved while I was in school. Worse was when I completed the course I had to beg for a job to prove myself. ( $3.50 hr starting!) But later that year I was hired at a local ship yard. I welded everything there. I worked in the sub zero winter on Lake Superior. They didn't call off work because it was too cold.
I made $ 11.72 hr. in 1975. (ya me and Sir Andy are old) I made $ 12.72 for hazard pay (working in the inside the tanks or hanging off the end of a crane cable.) I made time and a half on Saturday and Double time on Sunday. I worked every hour I could get. We were laid off in the summers. I built Street Machines and collected unemployment insurance all summer! Man I miss those days!

Posted by: jandro62 Jul 9 2004, 08:01 AM

Took a summer community college class that taught basics on MIG, TIG, oxy-acetylene , and metal arc. Using both hands takes a bit of practice. Find some way to stabilize your arms, by leaning up on something or resting them on something. Also, if you know someone that can weld already, its really helpful to see a good weld for reference.

Posted by: Andy Jul 9 2004, 08:35 AM

One more vote for practice! I'm self-taught as well (a couple books and plenty of good advice).

The only thing I'd add is that if you're afraid you're not getting good penetration don't be afraid to take your practice pieces and break them; sledgehammer, air chisel, got to town! Once you start tearing them apart you'll see what's cold and what's not.

P.S. Use proper safety gear! Drives me batty every time I see a Discovery show with people welding by braille (no face shield). We won't talk about the time I set my pants on fire...

Posted by: seanery Jul 9 2004, 08:38 AM

I learned to weld at the local high school's Adult Education Center. I learned how to MIG, TIG & STICK weld. I wish that I would have asked to learn Gas welding as well.

People say TIG'ing aluminum is hard, but I picked it up right away. I really, really enjoy TIG welding. MIG is fast and reasonably clean, but TIG is clean and very quiet. STICK, well, stick penetrates well but makes a lot of mess and has a bit less control than I like.

Posted by: sgomes Jul 9 2004, 08:40 AM

The idea being.... if you can't break it apart, it's a good weld?

I've got another question. How much should I plan on spending for a decent MIG setup with all the sundries? Just a ballpark figure. Yes I know it depends on what materials I plan on welding and all that but give me an idea of what kinda rigs you guys have. Hmmmm... sounds like another thread... "show us your rig"... hmmm wait no that 's a bad idea with this group of freaks..

Shannon

Posted by: seanery Jul 9 2004, 08:48 AM

Check this book out http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1557882649/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/102-6848551-7424942?v=glance&s=books&st=* I read it before I took my class. It's pretty good and it has charts for what rod/filler to use. *EDIT* THis book is available at Lowe's & Home Depot for $17 - $19.

My buddy Paul bought a Miller 135 setup and he spent about a grand which included, Welder, Cart, Tanks, Gas, Auto-Helmet, Gloves. There may have been a couple more things like magnets thrown in there, too. The 135 is a 110 V / 135 A welder.

I really like the Miller welders. I was able to teach him how to MIG correctly in 2 sessions one afternoon.

Posted by: Andy Jul 9 2004, 09:05 AM

Basically, there are people who should be able to explain much better than me but generally a good weld won't fail at the weld itself, the pieces you welded will fail - however you need to watch for material that breaks too easily near the weld - usually thats crystalization, too much heat or brought on or removed too quickly can cause a serious weakening of the surrounding material. Not really a problem for sheet metal.

Most of my welding junk I bought for 4x4 work, (read 1/8" to 1/2" mild steel) but check out www.cyberweld.com they have good prices, but you'll still need to get gas locally. I've used Miller, Hobart and Lincoln and they're all reasonably good. I'd avoid the harbor freight special (though I love my Century 131 it's useless for sheet metal). If you're only going to do light duty work 110V is OK. 220V gives a lot more power though.

Posted by: TimT Jul 9 2004, 07:18 PM

Thats a part of being a good weld... just because you cant break it "now" has nothing to do with whether it will break "then" having full penetration and fusion are paramount when welding.. however, inclusions, porosity, undercut can affect the strength and durabilty of your weld..

Welding thin gauge metal is usually a one pass procedure.. so most of the worries are sort of cleanlliness is next to godliness..

have clean base metal, and fit up the parts better than they should be...thats means spend extra time fitting the pieces to be welded, when you think they fit right... take it apart and see if goes fits up the same the next go round..put yourself in a comfortable welding position....

The welding of the parts is the easy part... making them be ready to weld is the hard stuff...

BTW I learned to weld when I was a kid... then High School metal shop...Studied Engineering in college, received training and certification from the American Welding Society

just pratice practice.... and get an Auto dark helmet...

Posted by: morphenspectra Jul 9 2004, 07:27 PM

here is some good info
http://www.aussieweld.com.au/arcwelding/

Posted by: fiid Jul 9 2004, 07:31 PM

I read a couple of books, bought a home despot welder - upgraded it to mig, and also did a bit of MAPP/oxy brazing work.

You may want to think twice before buying a welder from home depot, if you are considering that. Those welders have aluminium windings that apparently die quite easily, plus you have to pay more to upgrade the thing to MIG. I would find a local welding store and see what they have on the low end, there are very similar units at similar prices that are a little better built.

You will need gas for MIG. It is illegal to transport gas around in an enclosed vehicle, and the penalty is around $5k (I think). So find your nearest gas place, and drive directly to your house, and drop it off. Also drive with all the windows open and make sure the thing is secured. Rolling around in the trunk is not secure. A friend of mine expienced the removal of the valve from the top of a gas tank. Apparently it flew around the room 5 times, through a brick wall, and they later found it quarter of a mile away. You don't want this happining in your house, or your car.

As far as Oxy-acetylene gas welding goes, I have been advised that it pretty much terminates your fire insurance if it is on a residential property. I do not have evidence to back this up, but check first :-).

As for welding itself - it's not rocket science - there are lots of courses around if you are not happy with the progress you are making on your own. It is a reasonably dangerous sport, but all the risks can be mitigated, and you can fix your own shit when it breaks. It's a very happy, fun endeavor, and I get lots of satisfaction from it.

Posted by: sgomes Jul 9 2004, 08:34 PM

What's the story with flux core MIG? I was looking at a Millermatic 175 and it says that it can do gas MIG as well as flux core. They claimed the flux core stuff was for outside when the wind is blowing. Does it make a difference in the weld?

Shannon

Posted by: TimT Jul 9 2004, 08:39 PM

Wind blows the shielding gas away.. unless you tent around your work area... flux core welds just fine.... you have to clean between each pass though... of course on thin sheet metal its usually one pass welding so just one pass to clean