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Posted by: ChrisReale Jul 12 2004, 10:41 PM

Luckily I was one block from my apartment, but it still sucked having to hold the flashlight with my knees while I put the drive shaft back on. Check your torque to make sure it is correct. I have been meaning to do this for a few days, and it bit me in the ass. Dont let it happen to you

Posted by: trekkor Jul 12 2004, 10:52 PM

What torque on those little bolts?

KT

Posted by: jkeyzer Jul 12 2004, 11:57 PM

Heh heh heh.


http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=13701&view=getlastpost

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 13 2004, 12:17 AM

seems like it's CV joint separation summer ...

Andy

Posted by: Britain Smith Jul 13 2004, 12:40 AM

I actually picked up a 8mm Allen socket to allow me to properly torque my CV bolts. I recently put in a set of CV gaskets because for some reason the previous owner did not have any. I need to make my way up to HPH and get the proper wave washers before the autocross this weekend...

-Britain

Posted by: airsix Jul 13 2004, 12:42 AM

Ayup. Me too. Hit me Thursday on the way home from work. Lucky me it was an outboard joint so it didn't flip the axle around like a gian fly-cutter. Double lucky me - I was only 50 yards from my driveway. Didn't even break a sweat pushing it home. No carnage. Just cleaned out the joint, got a gasket out of my stash and bolted it all back together Saturday. Gotta start checking them bolts more often. I thought twice per year was enough. Guess not.

-Ben M.

ps - This is my first breakdown with this car in the 5 years I've had it as a spring/summer/fall daily driver. Not bad.

Posted by: tdgray Jul 13 2004, 05:47 AM

Obviously there has been quite a bit of this lately

I guess I have a question then. Why can't you use lock-tite on these bolts? Wouldn't that solve the problem?

Posted by: synthesisdv Jul 13 2004, 06:17 AM

anyone got a picture of the cv bolts safety wired?

what is the correct way to install them anyway?

new bolts
new gaskest?
new boots?
new lock tabs?
sealant?

we need to know

dr

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 13 2004, 06:19 AM

BTDT... and it doesn't help. You can't get the bolts and holes clean enough to get the locktite to hold.

Clay Perrine

74 914 1.8L (Betty's Daily Driver)
73 914 2.4L MFI Six (In process of reassembly)

"It is better to wear out than to rust out."

Posted by: thomasotten Jul 13 2004, 06:48 AM

It happened to me once and hit my transmission and cracked the shiftrod bushing guide right off. It can cause serious damage.

Posted by: DNHunt Jul 13 2004, 07:36 AM

Between being so tight you can't break them loose, stripped heads or backing out on their own, they are a pain in the butt.

Dave

Posted by: davep Jul 13 2004, 09:59 AM

New bolts
New washers
New gaskets

threads clean and dry
use proper torque
recheck a week later

Posted by: airsix Jul 13 2004, 11:06 AM

Can't really think of a good long-term solution. Like Clay said - you can't get the holes clean enough for locktite to hold. Safety-wireing would be a serious pain but might be worth it. Mike Mueller is a trained A&P mechanic - maybe he'll give us a tutorial on how to properly safety-wire a series of bolts.

-Ben M.

Posted by: Mueller Jul 13 2004, 11:14 AM

31 foot pounds according to the Haynes book

Hey Ben, good idea, I still have to install my axles so this might be a good time to do this and document it unless someone else already has.

.....that only means I passed the test(s), not that I learned anything

Posted by: Martin Baker Jul 13 2004, 11:17 AM

I believe we should go with an "Emergency Action Time Compliance Technical Order" World Wide effective, grounding the entire 914 fleet until these matters have been corrected. Saftey first. I found mine loose one time, but it never seperated. I was Lucky. Have to run, three 747's calling my name today. I have all the info you would need to saftey bolts. I do it everyday. Almost, somedays these fine Boeing machines actually do not malfunction...lol

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 13 2004, 03:38 PM

Is everybody using the OE "schnorr" lock washers? I think they are critical to the assembly.

Posted by: Zeke Jul 13 2004, 09:17 PM

It's not easy to assemble the CV and not get grease on the bolts. Just before putting the CV on the flange, I clean out the threads with brake cleaner and a Q tip, plus a litte spiral brush used for cleaning spray guns. I check the CV for grease that will get into the bolt hole and clear that out.

After I get the CV up there, I Q tip it again to see how much grease oozed over into the bolt holes being careful not to shoot brake clean directly in the hole and filling up the joint. Then, with Locktite, I insert the bolts always using new serated washers cup facing away from the bolt head.

31 lbs. does the trick. Note: You have to have the flat steel piece that covers 2 holes. If I were to safety wire the bolts, I would wire those 2 together.

Posted by: RAR Jul 13 2004, 09:57 PM

I couldn't get the bolts tight enough not to loosen, on my 911SC. Added serrated washers and that did the trick. The interesting thing is that they never loosened until I replaced an axle. They did not have washers as the car came from the factory, so I assume they were locktited. There is considerable discussion about this on the "large beaked bird", as well as photos (and heated discussion) of safety wiring.

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jul 18 2004, 08:19 PM

WOW..what a nasty feeling when this happens.

My freak'n driver's side CV came off today . Th dumb ass thing is I just got the CV tool in the mail and put off the task of tighting them up.

The shaft fell onto the shift rod and made one hell of a racket and scared the hell out of me. I was going about 45 when it happened

Called the wife and had her bring the new socket out to me, it was still in the PParts shipping box. Once she arrives and I look at the tool..........Son-of-a- BITCH...it's a 1/2" drive.

So back in the car to get the 3/8 to 1/2 adapter from the house.

Got the car home with only 3 bolts. One of the bolts sheared off

Looks like I will need to buy a few now.

Man I should have listened to you guys when I read this thread the first time

Cheers
Kerry "now in the fallen CV joint" club

Posted by: nine14cats Jul 18 2004, 08:31 PM

my cv's are safety wired. I realize my car is track only, but the safety wire is easy to snip during maintenance and adds a very measureable level of security. I'll shoot picks of my bolts with the holes in them....I've already taken them off with my engine drop in progress...

just my $0.02.

Bill P.

Posted by: aircooledboy Jul 18 2004, 08:39 PM

That seems VERY unlikely my friend. Accept credit where it is truely due.

Posted by: Ctrout Jul 18 2004, 09:08 PM

Safety wiring is easy. The tricks are not to overtwist the wire and weaken it, and to make sure that the wire is routed in such a direction as to be pulling the bolt in a tightening direction. I believe that T.O. 1-1A-8 details the process. I'll see if I can find some good illustrations tomorrow at work. BTW, are the cv bolts drilled for wire or does one need to acquire the proper bolts from somewhere?

Posted by: ! Jul 18 2004, 09:45 PM

Ayupers....me seven....happened on Wyld Thang. Did a re torque and safety wired the damn thangs....fucking PO left them looose........even took pics and posted. I'm too lazy to repost...... :finger2:

Posted by: Ctrout Jul 19 2004, 07:05 PM

This


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Posted by: Ctrout Jul 19 2004, 07:07 PM

And this


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 19 2004, 07:18 PM

That gives me a headache. I think I'll stay with new bolts, new Shnorr washers and a torque wrench.

Posted by: Mueller Jul 19 2004, 07:22 PM

......a word of caution, bleeding will occur if not careful with the so-called safety wire......$hit can be sharp as hell..."we've got a bleeder"

Posted by: 914forme Jul 24 2004, 06:38 AM

Saftey wire is king here guys, it is easy to work with, and not much of an extra step after install.

Process is simple drill a hole in hte head of the bolts. You wire so that as one bolt spins out the other will tighten. Easy in words, you just have to think about it when doing it. Oh and the saftey wire plyers make this process so much easier.

Or look at this link.

http://www.whizwheels.com/Tips/safetywiring.html

Cool a new set of tools, and no if you do it correctly they will never come off on there own. But like anything you are now moving your problems else where.

Amd please don't saftey wire your 914 as a cure for rust.

Posted by: 914forme Jul 24 2004, 06:43 AM

Forgot two things!

1. I can't spell, this is why they invented spell checkers, and to my brian types faster than my hands.



2. Becareful of the boots it is easy to have one of these wires pop a hole in there. Then you have a new set of problems to deal with.

And Doah, as a Newbie I just learned I can edit my posts.

Posted by: maf914 Jul 24 2004, 06:51 AM

Due to the angles involved with the rear axles, getting a torque wrench on the CV bolts is not easy. How in the hell do you get the safety wire pliers, safety wire, and your hands into those areas?

Posted by: synthesisdv Jul 24 2004, 06:53 AM

I use a really long extension, with the wheel removed you have a straight shot at it. At least for the tranny side.

dr

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jul 24 2004, 11:32 AM

Mike,

I do the exact opposite of dr. No extentions. Each extension effects the torque readings...

Torque wrench and socket only. Rotate the wheel until you have one CV bolt at the top of the CV area. With the car jacked up the axle will be down and away from the bolt you bring to the top. VERY easy to do. After you torque the first one rotate another one to the top.

Oh. I use a small wooden handle wrapped with a rag and place it between the wheel and brake caliper to hold the wheel/axle from moving. Fast. I also use the wooden handle to hold the tire during valve adjusts.



B

Posted by: J P Stein Jul 24 2004, 04:11 PM

I've never had em' come loose. I do check often, tho
Had a gasket go funky once....but the bolts were still tight.

Brad:
"No extentions. Each extension effects the torque readings..."


I don't suppose you're gonna trust me on this, but that statement is....ah.... incorrect.. Speeling sux, too

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jul 24 2004, 04:17 PM

I forget which "textbook" I read the extensions thing in, but I also had a "professor" of some sort tell me the same thing 4-5 years later. I question everything JP. I know your professional background so I wont argue anything that has to do with "testing".


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jul 24 2004, 04:19 PM

Oh.. every time I safety wire anything... something breaks the next day that requires me to undo all of it.


B

Posted by: Bleyseng Jul 24 2004, 04:39 PM

Is that another of "Brads laws"?

Posted by: jkeyzer Jul 26 2004, 01:17 PM

Can the triple square bolts be drilled for safety wire without messing up the inner surface of the head?

Are the triple square bolts necessarily any better than the allen type?

Posted by: James Adams Jul 26 2004, 01:42 PM

As usual, age before beauty - JP is correct.

The extension thing comes from using funky tools like crowsfeet that move the center of rotation of the bolt away from the axis of rotation of the wrench.

It is perfectly acceptable to use typical socket extensions with a torque wrench - you just have to be sure to support the head of the torque wrench as you tighten.

Posted by: James Adams Jul 26 2004, 01:46 PM

Quality grade 12.9 hex allen bolts are fine. Triple square are just more interesting.

Posted by: yellowFV Jul 26 2004, 08:28 PM

I just pulled my cv joints on my 75 914 1.8 liter car today.... The bolts on my cv joints are an 8 mm spline internal wrenching type bolt...

Could the head of the bolt be safely drilled to accept a ss safety wire... I thought I could run safety wire through the first bolt head and then accross to it's pair.

My original question for the evening was gonna be how do you remove the flanged hub that carries the brake rotor from the control arm / wheel bearing area.

I was gently banging on them with a brass hammer and they were not moving so I backed off.


rob

Posted by: maf914 Jul 27 2004, 06:57 AM

Yes, if you are selling triple square socket tools!

Posted by: jfort Jul 27 2004, 09:39 AM

you guys are scaring the hell out of me. could someone post a picture of the bolts that need to be checked? and 31 foot pounds is what they should be?

Posted by: ! Jul 27 2004, 09:47 AM

One of the big reasons for these loosening up is higher than stock horse power, old washers, no washers, no gaskets......properly installed they really shouldn't loosen up on a STOCK motor......even with a a 200+hp, it is rare to have them loosen up.....never happened on my 3.0/6 ride and I beat the snot out that one.....

Mine never got loose...at least ones that "I" installed......the one that DID was on a V8 powered 914 and the DAPO did the install...."I" should have checked....but I was lazy and paid for it.