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Posted by: mike_the_man Jul 13 2004, 02:21 PM

Hi all,

I'm just wondering how thick the steering rack spacers that you can buy from the usual sources are? I've heard around 1/2", is that true? I want to make some for my car, but I guess I should figure out how thick they should be first.

Thanks,

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jul 13 2004, 02:29 PM

i'll go measure my unmounted set tonight, but somewhere in the 10mm (~3/8") to 12mm (~1/2") sounds right. basically, they're about as big as you can raise the rack without it hitting the tub.

you -could- do it with individual ground washers. i'm not sure why you'd want to make any - the commercial parts are not expensive and come complete with the appropriately longer appropriate strength bolts you'll also need. but it's your time, do what you want ...

Posted by: mike_the_man Jul 13 2004, 02:33 PM

Well, I was planning on using washer, but that sounds so cheap. Just trying to sound like I have some type of fabrication skills, even though I don't. So around 1/2" of washers and some longer bolts it is!

Posted by: Mueller Jul 13 2004, 02:37 PM

not just some bolts, but the correct type as well, I wouldn't trust regular hardware store bolts for an item like this

Posted by: mike_the_man Jul 13 2004, 02:41 PM

I was planning on getting some Grade 8 bolts. Would that do, or should I be considering something else? When it comes to bolts, I'm pretty ignorant.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jul 13 2004, 03:08 PM

'Grade 8" is not a metric specification...

i would use no less than the original factory grade hardware, which unfortunately is not documented in the ETKA. PROBABLY what's there is an 8,8 capscrew. a high-quality 8,8 is probably adequate but there is a lot of counterfeit mismarked Asian crap in the supply chain...

fastener specification is nontrivial -- a 10,9 will be stronger - but more brittle. if you can get hardware from a trusted source, a REAL 8,8 (if that's what the factory used) should be fine. (interestingly, i note that they show both 24mm and 35mm lengths in this application...) if youre not using a trusted metric supply house, -probably- a 10,9 would be a better bet.

BTW - John Deere and Caterpillar dealers are good sources of excellent quality metric hardware; yes, i am serious. you need M10.

Posted by: mike_the_man Jul 13 2004, 04:36 PM

Like I said, I don't know much about nuts and bolts, but that was very informative. I'll see what I can find. I can't say that I've ever put much thought into what nuts and bolts to use for a particular application, but I will now.

Thanks,

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jul 13 2004, 04:48 PM

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0879384069/103-4845680-7183000?v=glance is an excellent reference for everything that holds a car together. (Actually, the name of the book is "Carroll Smith's Nuts, Bolts and Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook" but since his other books in the series are: Prepare To Win, Tune To Win, Engineer To Win, and Drive To Win, it just became the natural popular name; it's actually referred to by that name in his later books ...)

for all the in-depth data on fasteners, Screw To Win is THE book to have, but if you're going to get (or start with) just one book, his first - Prepare To Win - is HIGHLY recommended.

there's at least a dozen grades of fasteners in our cars, and while none of them is any better (more expensive to produce) than necessary - the VW value engineers saw to that - none of them is weaker than they need to be - for their intended application - Porsche saw to that. there are a few that need a second look in severe (competition) service, but in general - a replacement fastener should be of the same grade as the one it replaces.

Posted by: SLITS Jul 13 2004, 05:29 PM

In theory, the spacers should be thick enough that the tie rods are parallel to the ground. So, it really depends on how low your car is.

Posted by: ottox914 Jul 13 2004, 06:19 PM

Don't be cheep, just get the kit, the right size spacer, right length/strength bolts. I just got done doing this. Tips: loosen the "U" joint under the dash to give yourself some wiggle room from the steering wheel/collum. Remove both tie rod ends. Now the rack is just sitting there. Remove both rack bolts. Get a friend with strong hands. You and friend will need to work togather to lift, twist, and place the spacers, and get bolts started, all at once. Here is where a 1pc spacer is superior to trying to work 4 hands, 2 bolts, 1 tightly stuck rack, and 20 or so washers all into a happy whole assembly. Don't forget to tighten the "U" bolt. Wipe the blood off your knuckles. Have beer and Za ready for you and friend. Next day, be first in line for an alignment.

Do all of this at your own risk. These are just my observations on the project. If you jam a finger or the car falls on your head, don't come looking for me, o.k.?

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jul 13 2004, 06:20 PM

yup - that's a great theory, but in practice, there comes a point where the top of the rack hits the bottom of the tub - and you aren't going higher without metal work.

another option is to use the expensive 'bump steer kit' that raises (lowers?) the mounting point of the outer tie rd end at the steering arm.

my opinion is that without shortening the strut and the damper, or raising the spindle, or both, any lowering that can't be compensated with the standard spacers (i.e. - before the rack hits the tub) is too low... the cars may look cool on the bump stops, but they don't handle like that, and i have little use for a car that can't be driven...

Posted by: mike_the_man Jul 14 2004, 09:10 AM

Good info here, thanks guys! I'm not planning on going super low, but the car looked pretty silly with the front end way up and the back end way down. Reminded me of a boat. All I want to do is even out the ride height. While the spacer kits are cheap, I haven't found anywhere in Canada that sells them, and by the time I get it shipped from the States, buy duty, shipping, etc, it stops being cheap. And me being the cheap SOB that I am, I prefer to get some washers and bolts and do it myself. After all this talk I will make sure to get some good bolts though.

Posted by: SLITS Jul 14 2004, 09:17 AM

Just like everything, the Gov't has to stick their fingers in. Have a "friend" (otherwise known as a 914club "member") buy them for you and send them USPS with a declared value of $10.00 - "used auto part".

While the Gov'ts don't have to be creative in how they remove the money from our pockets, we have to be creative in the way to keep it in our pockets.

Oh, and Rich is dead correct in the lowering dept. If you're not willing to do some major suspension work (shortening track arms, relocation of pickup point, etc), lowering will lend it self to un-driveability(?).