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Posted by: nine14cats Jul 18 2004, 11:10 AM

I'm currently scheming on my motor rebuild for my 914. I don't have a lack of ideas to spend my money. I know of 8 engines including mine in various states that I can get a hold of to stuff in.

If I go to a bigger motor (3.4 or 3.6) what do I need to reinforce in my 914's chassis to handle the added torque? I've got the trans covered...If I go big I'll go big on the gearbox also (can you say WEVO, close ratio!).....

$$$$$$$$

Of course I can stay with my 2.7 / 901 combo for another fun season...and that may happen to get the car up again before the end of this year...but I may just buy one of these bad boy large motor longblocks and have fun during the winter....

Any suggestions on bracing? Pics?

Thanks,

Bill P.

Posted by: john rogers Jul 18 2004, 11:49 AM

If you have large wheel/tires too, I would say to brace the suspension console so the added power does not rip it apart. If the trailing arms are not boxed I would do them also. Finally, the "GT" type sheetmetal reenforcement kit would be beneficial. Good luck.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jul 18 2004, 12:01 PM

trailing arms and GT bracing are controversial, at least. i would -not- box the trailing arms. there is little evidence the GT 'reinforcement' panels do anything good unless you are trying to reproduce a factory GT clone where it's a cosmetic necessity...

once upon a time i was all set to do both, but we have learned a lot in the intervening 30 years.

Posted by: J P Stein Jul 18 2004, 01:10 PM

Since the motor is out.........

The inner suspension mounts would be a good place to start. For all the "stuff" on the market for "strengthing" the frame/suspension, this is the weak link and nothing is offered to get after it. The more grip you've got, the more danger of failure.

One of these days,I'm gonna have to come up with something.....hopefully, it will be at my leisure and not by necessity.

You've already got the spring towers tied into the cage, right?.....and the trans mount channel braced into that?

A well built, hotrod 3.4L would be nice.....
less hassle than a 3.6L......since we're spending your money.

Posted by: nine14cats Jul 18 2004, 01:49 PM

Other than a full cage I have not tied anything together yet. That's why with the car in pieces I can have the welding done now.

Yep...a nice 3.4L...couple of ways to go. Destroke a modern 3.6 or take a base 3.0/3.2 and go big....all of it sounds like fun. Money will be an issue...but it normally is for anything on this car

I guess I'll give Tony C a call and pick his brain...I can drop off the car and have it back in plenty of time to stuff the engine back in.

Bill P.

Posted by: trekkor Jul 18 2004, 06:25 PM

Bill, I know you passed on the Griggs motor, trans and tub combo.

I think you should go look at it for yourself.
I saw it and it is stored indoors up off the ground. I think he told you it has " moss " on it. He told me " fuzz ".
The reality is it has mild oxidation/scale on the timing chain covers.

I'd arrange to run and dyno that race motor and make an offer. That's me with your money or me if I had my own money.

He said the trans is a 915 built box, if he didn't tell you.

His shop is next door to Racer's Group at the track.

Trekkor

Posted by: nine14cats Jul 18 2004, 06:37 PM

Hi Trekkor,

Thanks for the info. When I talked to Griggs, he said he wouldn't part the motor separate from the rest of the stuff. I don't want the tub, so the draw wasn't that strong. I talked to him at length on the phone and he said the tranny was a built 901, not a 915. Besides....I'm going bigger. I'll either run my 2.7 again while building a bigger motor or I will just go straight to a bigger motor. Haven't decided...but I'm trying to convince myself to stay down for as long as it takes to finish what I want, including skipping next yer if I have to.

Tough choices...but like everyone else I am fiscally challenged.

Thanks,

Bill P.

Posted by: john rogers Jul 18 2004, 10:49 PM

Here's a small pict of the rear suspension console brace we use. Made of cro-moly tube with adjustable ends. It has been used since the early 80's and kept the console from ripping despite offs, spins, etc with slicks.


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Posted by: Mueller Jul 18 2004, 11:03 PM

Bill,

Do you have a full cage??? If so, what ID/OD is it and how close are you to the wieght limit if it is the "smaller" tubing?

I big motor w/915 might push the weight up too high for some cages to be legal.....just food for thought

Posted by: nine14cats Jul 21 2004, 11:50 AM

bump...

Posted by: Racer Chris Jul 21 2004, 02:41 PM

This is what I do Bill.




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Posted by: J P Stein Jul 21 2004, 02:48 PM

I like that. Gonna stare at them pics summore

Posted by: nine14cats Jul 21 2004, 03:01 PM

Hi Chris,

Would that be good enough for the torque of a 3.6 motor? The engine is out right now...so I could get all this stuff done before stuffing in the new motor...

I'm with JP, I gonna stare at those pics for awhile!

Bill P.

Posted by: Mueller Jul 21 2004, 03:08 PM

Chris, do you ever see the need to reinforce the transmission mounting sheetmetal?

Posted by: Racer Chris Jul 21 2004, 03:52 PM

I think it will take at least 300hp with 12" wide tires.



I've never done it yet, unless the trunk floor was cut out. Based on the extent of damage to my car from hitting the Armco I'd say that area is pretty stiff and doesn't really need reinforcing. Maybe a small tube from the shock towers on each side, but no need to cross them like I've seen on other cars.
Actually it is probably better to do any reinforcements there, on the underside, from the rear of the longitudinal to the trans. bracket.

Without the trunk sheetmetal I would do something like this.


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Posted by: Jeroen Jul 21 2004, 04:21 PM

I like this one

But call me paranoia, I'd hate it if (30+ year old) threads in the nuts on the top of the outer susp. console would shred or if the bolts broke. You'd have to cut it all out to access it

This may be over the top, but I can't help liking it

I'm gonna try and get as close to this as I can...
More cool stuff here http://www.vehiclecraft.com/custcars.html

Check out Tony C's site as well for some good ideas
http://www.tcdesignfab.com/

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: Demick Jul 21 2004, 04:39 PM

The GGR rule book discusses some 914 bracing. Some looks very similar to what Racer Chris shows.

Scroll down to the bottom:

http://www.pca-ggr.org/ggrrb5.html

Posted by: Randal Jul 21 2004, 05:03 PM

Bill,

Check with Mike A. up in Sacramento. He has installed a 996 in his 914; in fact it at Tony's shop right now, less engine.

Randal

Posted by: Racer Chris Jul 21 2004, 06:03 PM

Piece of cake!
Actually, that already happened to a customer of mine who had this mod already done by me.
He broke a bolt, and there was no way to get it back out, after he broke 2 easy-outs inside there.
I was able to replace just the sleeve that the bolt threads into, without removing the reinforcement. I did have to cut an access window through the back. If it was the front one it would have been a bit harder.

Posted by: Jeroen Jul 21 2004, 06:12 PM

Yeah, but what you can fab/fix in an hour would take me prolly a week (and the days in that week would be scattered over a 2 month period)


cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jul 21 2004, 06:42 PM

T,

Did Griggs give you his background ?? He crewed for Ritchie Ginther in the 70's when Ritchie was running the factory backed 914's in SCCA racing. Ginther is a icon amongst the 914 racers. Griggs grew up down the street from Ginther and Ginther saw him running around in gokarts as a kid. Cool story that he tells if you ask him about 914's. I know he is Mustang guy now.. and a Corvette guy.


B

Posted by: Racer Chris Jul 21 2004, 07:13 PM

Replacing one of those sleeves looks like a daunting task even without the reinforcement in the way.
That's why the threads should all be chased with a tap, before disaster strikes.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jul 21 2004, 07:24 PM

Torque them properly.. make damn sure the alignment guy is torquing them also.


B