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Posted by: peteyd Sep 27 2011, 01:31 PM

Alright, I spoke a while back that I was going to start producing the Front trunk pan. I already have all the steel and all the CAD work done, so all I need to do is prep the steel and start cutting!

I wanted to start a thread here for all to follow the progress and also to get a better idea of what goes on at Restoration Design. I am the one in charge of designing and making all the dies here for the 914, 911, 912, and 356's. I have only made two small dies( pedal cluster support, seat mount bracket) for the 914 so far so I wanted to make something else that was in need.

I started with an NOS full floor pan. The one that runs from the firewall all the way to the front trunk pan. Brought that away to get a digital scan and then from there I designed the male and female halves of the die.

Posted by: peteyd Sep 27 2011, 01:38 PM

First the drawings of the Female die



and the Male die

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 27 2011, 01:41 PM

Why is this in the sandbox???
Moved to the Garage.


And please, don't use BMP images. They don't show on webpages. Use JPG or PNG instead ...

Posted by: lrm914 Sep 27 2011, 01:43 PM

Awesome!

I always wondered what the large holes in the bottom of the car floors and trunks are for. When I was doing some repainting in the front trunk of my car a circular cover that fit over 1 of the 2 holes in the bottom of the front trunk came off. It appeared to be siliconed over the hole. Any idea what they are for? I was just going to silicon the metal circle back in the place it came from. The holes are circular but have what look like some sort small tabs cutout on them as well.

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 27 2011, 01:47 PM

Best guess would be for the spot-welding robot arms to go through to get into the corners.

Posted by: dlee6204 Sep 27 2011, 01:52 PM

Cool!

Posted by: peteyd Sep 27 2011, 01:54 PM

Just so you guys can picture what will be happening...

the female first

Cut with 4.5 inch face mill then cut with 1.5 inch bullnose



next 1.25inch ballnose and then finish off with .5 inch ballnose

Posted by: peteyd Sep 27 2011, 01:56 PM

Male half...

Pretty much the same tools as the female.






And also the drawpad...

Posted by: Loser_Cruiser Sep 27 2011, 02:19 PM

This is pretty awesome. Any chance you'll ever create the whole piece as one( front trunk pan, front rear pans)?

Posted by: Valy Sep 27 2011, 02:40 PM

The only thing I need now is rust!

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 27 2011, 02:41 PM

Very nice!

Posted by: zymurgist Sep 27 2011, 02:45 PM

Posted by: peteyd Sep 27 2011, 03:05 PM

I dont have a press that can handle a die that large, and that die would cost way too much money to be justified.

Posted by: MrHyde Sep 27 2011, 03:23 PM

I'm going to have to swing by and check this out sometime ... I know of a certain orange 72' body shell that could use some steel where the A/C condenser hole is..

Posted by: A&PGirl Sep 27 2011, 03:32 PM

Very nice.

Posted by: boogie_man Sep 27 2011, 04:54 PM

Awesome work !!! How about a lower windshield cowl, any chance ??

Posted by: veltror Sep 27 2011, 05:02 PM

Rust, have some of mine...

Posted by: rallysport70 Sep 27 2011, 06:24 PM

This really is awesome. Thanks for helping us keep some neat, old cars on the road. Keep up the good work!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 28 2011, 06:36 AM

WOW is all I can say. I just love to see that these parts are made and available to save our cars. BRAVO!

Posted by: FourBlades Sep 28 2011, 07:23 AM

That is fantastic...I am sure you will sell many of these because they do rust a
lot here. Having new front suspension attachment points will be really nice on
rusty and front hit cars.

John

Posted by: BajaXJ92 Sep 28 2011, 07:49 AM

Wow! Count me in for a front trunk floorpan!

Posted by: peteyd Sep 28 2011, 10:28 AM

Did some prep work on the blocks of steal so I can more easily move them around.

First drill pilot holes



next drill



Then counter sink



Finally tap...

Posted by: peteyd Sep 28 2011, 10:29 AM

Now I can move them onto the mill and drill and power tap all the mounting holes.

Posted by: zymurgist Sep 28 2011, 11:18 AM

Wow, how much does that thing weigh?

Posted by: injunmort Sep 28 2011, 11:34 AM

i will surely be in for one for my '73. really nice.

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 28 2011, 12:50 PM

I don't think the front suspension mounts are part of this as they are spot-welded onto the bottom of the actual floor pan.

Also, it looks like the double (triple?) layer reinforcement for the suspension mounting on the inside of the trunk is not part of this.

Posted by: peteyd Sep 28 2011, 01:14 PM

The larger piece is around 2300lbs and the smaller piece is around 2000lbs. I have a magnet that is capable of lifting the smaller one, but I don't feel safe doing that.

As for the suspension mounts, those will come in time. First I will stamp out the floor pan. Then I need to make a restrike die that will fold the outer edges up in the front and the edges on the side down.

Posted by: trojanhorsepower Sep 28 2011, 06:25 PM

Very cool.

Thanks for sharing.

Posted by: shuie Sep 29 2011, 05:25 PM

Awesome. Do you have a target date for getting these to market?

Posted by: peteyd Sep 29 2011, 06:54 PM

Ahhh, I new the question would come up at some point.

I dont have a target date on when the die is going to be finished. I should have one half on the mill for the end of next week, and then that will take nearly two weeks of milling IIRC. Even after the die comes off the mill, it still needs to be polished, which will take another 2 weeks. There are other dies that I am constantly working on, so there might be another die that has greater priority after this one half is done.



Pete

Posted by: shuie Sep 29 2011, 09:04 PM

Pete, thanks for sharing this with us. I am really blown away by what you have to do to get something like a front pan into production. This is a tremendous amount of work. It's really pretty awesome to see the die as a raw block of steel. I'm just excited to learn that RD is doing this.

Posted by: peteyd Sep 29 2011, 09:12 PM

I am glad to share this with everyone. I have loved the 914s since I first saw them when I was 14. It was a Silver 914/6 that was in a road and track magazine I think. I never would have dreamed that 12 years later I would be stamping out Porsche parts and working on keeping these cars on the road. Although my car has yet to see the road. Thats been a work in progress since i was 18...

Posted by: peteyd Sep 30 2011, 10:39 AM

Loading the steal...





I have to clean up an edge on both X and Y axis to ensure that I can accurately pick up the coordinates, and also indicate the edge so I know the block is on the table straight.



Picking up the coordinates with my edge finder.



I drilled and countersunk all the holes, now Im ready to tap.

Posted by: peteyd Sep 30 2011, 01:15 PM

Little video...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osaKR0WQdfc

Posted by: peteyd Oct 6 2011, 01:31 PM

Got some work done yesterday, and set the steel up. Indicated the edges and made sure it was straight.




The 1.5" bullnose cutter has been running for around 15 hours.

This is where we are at currently. Another couple hours and we can move onto the 1" ballnose cutter

Posted by: BajaXJ92 Oct 6 2011, 05:38 PM

Posted by: peteyd Oct 6 2011, 08:24 PM

OK, came back to work later on. There was a massive amount of chips this afternoon, so I pause the mill to clear them all. This is the amount of chips that there were when it finished.



And here we are from above...



Now I can start the 1" ballnose. It will be finished by the morning so I can fire up the .5" ballnose. That should run for the rest of the weekend on the finishing pass which has a stepover of .003.

Posted by: shuie Oct 6 2011, 08:31 PM

amazing.

Posted by: dlee6204 Oct 6 2011, 08:35 PM

This is awesome. Thanks for sharing!

Posted by: zymurgist Oct 7 2011, 04:28 AM

Posted by: injunmort Oct 7 2011, 06:10 AM

totally awesome, really impressive process

Posted by: peteyd Oct 7 2011, 08:44 AM

The 1" ballnose finished with no glitches.



The .5" ballnose will run for 180 hrs. Good thing its Canadian Thankgiving this weekend! Taking the rest of the day off and Relaxin at the cottage!

Posted by: mikea100 Oct 7 2011, 09:30 AM

Great work! Any chance of making those from galvanized steel for better rust protection?

Posted by: peteyd Oct 7 2011, 10:02 AM

All of our panels are made using galvanneal. I will let Wikipedia better explain what that process is...

Galvannealed or galvanneal is the result from the combined process of galvanizing and annealing to produce specialized sheets of steel. The galvanization is made through the hot-dipping (Hot-dip galvanizing) process and gives a very fine greyish matte finish. Galvanneal does not flake off its galvanized coating when formed, stamped, and bent. The very fine matte finish acts like a primer, allowing paint to adhere easily, and is very rust proof; only white to dark grey marks appear if it comes in contact with water. Galvanneal sheets offer good paintability, weldability, corrosion resistance, and formability. It is extensively used in the automotive, signage, electric equipment, and other industries requiring a metal with good paintability and long reliable service life. This steel process is produced by many steel mills and it is commonly referred by its trade name of Jet-Kote.

Posted by: peteyd Oct 9 2011, 05:22 PM

The power must have gone out this weekend some time between saturday night and sunday morning!

Lost some time!

oh well, happens. I started it back up on the opposite side, so hopefully it will be done by the beginning of next weekend

Posted by: gothspeed Oct 11 2011, 02:28 PM

This is freakin insane!!!! Thank you for sharing the pics!!!!!

Posted by: sixnotfour Oct 11 2011, 02:32 PM

Great Work

Posted by: RON S. Oct 11 2011, 05:01 PM

It is sometimes simply amazing to me how lucky we are to be living in the age we are right now.

The older guys that made that original stamping back in 69 had to do it the hard way. Massive Calculations, wooden bucks, manual machining.



Today we have Faro & Romer arms to digitize parts in hours, Solidworks to convert the digitizing to raster modeling in minutes, Edgecam & Mastercam to convert the modeling to machine programming in hours, and 5,6, & 7 axis cnc machining centers to take a 3-4'' block of steel, and turn it into a usable die set in a matter of days.

Beautiful Pete,
Thanks for taking the risk on this, as I'm sure there are a lotta 914's needing this piece.

Ron

Posted by: zymurgist Oct 11 2011, 05:49 PM

Wow!

Babydoll is going to need one of these pieces, so I'm extra happy about what you're doing!

Posted by: Eric_Shea Oct 28 2011, 06:57 PM

Make Flares!

Posted by: peteyd Nov 4 2011, 10:57 AM

Well its been a little while since I had an update.

The male half is done now, and I am starting the prep work for the female side.

In total the finishing bit ran for about 280 hours. I had to take two passes because about every 24hours I had to change the carbide insert. After putting in a new carbide, the height difference would be .003-.005 of an inch. After the final bit was finished, I drilled and reamed a hole through the mounting plate into the top of the table(circled in red). The reason I had to do this is because I machined all the way around the die and there were no flat edges to pick up off of if I ever wanted to put the die bad onto the mill for any reason. I then recorded the machine coordinates on the mounting plate to ensure the datum point is in the exact same location every time.

Now I still have to polish this die, which will most likely take a full two weeks.

Posted by: zymurgist Nov 4 2011, 11:26 AM

Why does the die have to be polished? Just curious.

Posted by: maf914 Nov 4 2011, 11:48 AM

Pete, Thanks

That is really interesting. Thanks for posting this. I hope you will show us the compete process. Thanks again.

Posted by: peteyd Nov 4 2011, 01:14 PM

There are still tool marks on the die. It needs to have a mirror finish on it because when the metal is stamped, it flows. When there are tooling marks, it will cause friction and thus cause tearing or wrinkling.

The polishing process is brutal. First we use 60 grit boat stones to take out most of the larger marks. Then we work our way down from 60 to 120 to 200 to 400 diamond grit pads.

Posted by: zymurgist Nov 4 2011, 01:45 PM

Wow!

So you polish the dies and make a run of parts, then the dies go in storage until more parts are needed... I am guessing that you coat the dies with cosmoline or something similar to prevent rust while they are in storage.

This is all fascinating to me... I'm a computer geek so I work with products of a more virtual nature.

Posted by: peteyd Nov 4 2011, 05:54 PM

You got it! I will probably stamp out around 50 to start with, and see how they sell. I dont anticipate high sales with this part right away. I would then start to produce the suspension mounting points and build a jig to weld them in. I would then give the option to the buyer to buy just the pan, for the cars that have had AC installed in the past, and then the pan with the suspension mounting points for the severely rusted cars or that have had front end damage.

Posted by: partwerks Nov 5 2011, 05:42 PM

How's about stamping out some steel roofs for those who may want a permanent hard top??

Be nice to eliminate some, squeaks, leaks, and noise, along with a stiffer chassis.

Posted by: mepstein Nov 5 2011, 06:01 PM

If you got together a big enough pre-paid group, they might. But looking over this thread, it's too big a project to do unless there is a guaranteed market. JMO

Posted by: Cairo94507 Nov 6 2011, 08:29 AM

I just love this thread and that someone loves our 914's enough to make these badly needed parts.

I know my 914-6 has some rust, not bad but typical passenger side issues. I won't know how bad until the car begins the body restoration phase of my project.

I am still in the process of gathering mechanical parts for the build.

Posted by: 914 shifter Nov 6 2011, 07:08 PM

any tricks/advice on welding to our 1970 sheet metal. maintaining structural integrity between the new and older metals is well

Posted by: scotty b Nov 6 2011, 07:20 PM

Cut the rust back to where you have good clean solid metal and there is no issue to be had Make a nice tight fit up and buttweld the two panels together

Oh and Pete....freaking sweet

Posted by: charliew Nov 7 2011, 09:13 AM

Very nice explanation of the process. It seems like you could reposition the holder for the cutters in relation to the just cut surface of the old cutter and not get the .003-.005 difference. I'm guessing the cutter has several seperate carbide cutters mounted in it? and thats where the variance is? Or is it one solid carbide tipped cutter?

Sorry I went back and read your description again, it's the difference in the dimensions of the carbide insert.

Posted by: Valy Nov 17 2011, 10:40 PM

A hint for your next part. This should be easy to do:

!! We want new heat exchangers !!

Posted by: Socalandy Nov 17 2011, 10:49 PM

very nice, your hard work makes mine easier!! cant wait to get my order for my -6 project

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Nov 17 2011, 11:03 PM

Posted by: a914622 Nov 17 2011, 11:07 PM

Sweet programing. I used to make molds. Have you ever used the new highfeed cutters. Ingersoll has a sweet lineup. Steels at 350 ipm.!

I have the hole in the front of my 914 from the a/c. I could use a new front to fill the hole.

jcl

Posted by: peteyd Nov 18 2011, 02:30 PM

Little update...

I have taken the die off, obviously, and started to work on another die. I have a deadline to meet in February for the 356 literature swapmeet. I am making a hood die for a 356 A coupe, so that is taking up the majority of my time. After I am done this project I will focus my time on the 914 trunk pan again.


John at SSI already has the tooling for the heat exchangers. I know you all want me to make these, but I am not familiar with stamping out stainless steel. I would also have to have a tube bender, which is not in my budget. Sorry guys, but we will have to stick with what is out there.

I have not used these new highfeed cutters yet. What kind of rpm do you have to be running to feed that quick?

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 18 2011, 03:13 PM

He's got the tooling but what he does *not* have is the intention of ever using it again.

I haven't talked to him in a while, but i'd be surprised if his opinion has changed on the matter.

Someone should really buy all the tooling from him and start making new heat exchangers.

Posted by: mepstein Nov 18 2011, 03:17 PM

They have been made - Mittlemotor sells them.

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 18 2011, 03:28 PM

Ok, then let me rephrase that: Someone should really buy his tooling and make them for a price that is less that what the average 914 is worth.

Is that better?

Posted by: mepstein Nov 18 2011, 04:01 PM

I think it would be risky to duplicate a product that is already being made and sells to a very small audience. There are still a lot of used heat exchangers floating around for guys on a budget. Maybe a group buy?

What about resto design making steel bumpers?

Especially a front bumper with a GT oil cooler cutout.

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 18 2011, 04:41 PM

I remember when a set of brand new 2.0L SSI exchangers still in the original box would sell for less than $200.

If someone could make them for double that today, they would sell like hotcakes ...

Posted by: peteyd Nov 18 2011, 05:12 PM

The problem is John will not sell just the 914 tooling. He wants to sell his business as a whole. I don't know where he is in that process currently, but he said there was an interested party.

Posted by: peteyd Nov 18 2011, 05:15 PM

Is there really a market for steel bumpers? I thought that there are plenty of used bumpers out there still.

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 18 2011, 06:44 PM

The problem with John is that he's saying that same line for over 10 years now.

Some 8 years ago, i sat on the table with him and an interested party that had the money to close the deal on said table. John managed to drag it out until the interested party was not interested anymore.
He could have sold the whole lot right then and there.

Honestly, i don't think he really wants to sell the business ...

Posted by: mepstein Nov 18 2011, 08:27 PM

I don't know if there is a market. I guess it depends on the price. A GT version would be nice.

Posted by: a914622 Nov 18 2011, 11:45 PM

I ran the 1.5 dia at 3000rpm .06 deep at 350 ipm. in 4340 with about 8.5-11 hours per edge tool life (dry) air blast.
http://www.ingersoll-imc.com/en/ingersolltv/pfeedpls_vidplayer.htm is a video

There is also a power feed mini that has 7 flutes. 650-850 sfm at .025 per tooth feed at .035 deep dry.

anyway you can get more tool life,faster running dry with air blast in steels.

Keep up the good work. I miss making moldes. Im jelous

jcl

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 18 2011, 11:45 PM

Somebody already makes those ...

!!! LINK REMOVED DUE TO INJECTED VIRUS ON THAT PAGE !!!

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=108722

Posted by: mepstein Nov 19 2011, 07:46 AM

Posted by: 9146986 Nov 19 2011, 10:24 AM

John doesn't want to sell SSI unless he can get enough out of it to buy an island in the south Pacific. I too been on the periphary of a couple near purchases, and John always drags it out, or wants to sell vintage equipment (that's too big and too expensive to move) for homerun prices.

Posted by: Valy Nov 19 2011, 12:30 PM

Regarding the heat exchangers:
They don't have to be SS. Just plain tin will probably outlive the cars at this stage.
And yes, I would buy them for $400. Should I pre-order?

Posted by: a914622 Nov 19 2011, 02:38 PM

the link to the bumpers above loads virus!!

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 19 2011, 06:00 PM

Well, what do you know, you are right!!!

Looks like they got hacked and someone injected a block of malicious JavaScript code into the webpage.


I removed the link in my previous posts ...

Posted by: Bartlett 914 Nov 20 2011, 09:40 AM

Any details on this virus?

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 20 2011, 01:46 PM

Can't say. Firefox blocked it, but i can see the injected code when looking at the page source.


Here you go:

Posted by: Mikey914 Nov 20 2011, 02:02 PM

I had spoke to John at one point about the tooling for the heat exchangers. He's not interested in selling, or selling them ad units. He's currently producing the complete heat exchangers for a party overseas that is reselling them. Pretty much he would make complete units but there would have to be a commitment for 300 sets to make it even close to cost effective.

Posted by: jeeperjohn56 Nov 20 2011, 09:14 PM

Hey Pete, I'm with Eric we need another group buy on GT metal flare's, I'm in for a set and I think there are more out there for more also. Want do you say John

Posted by: McMark Nov 20 2011, 11:03 PM

Stainless HE's are nice and all, but seems a lot like overkill to me, especially considering the life our cars are living now-a-days. I think mild steel is plenty for what we need. And more importantly, would be offering slightly larger pipe sizes.

Offer them in a ceramic coating option, and you have something that's cheaper to produce, and will likely last just as long as the SSIs.

Posted by: mepstein Nov 21 2011, 06:04 AM

Says a west coast guy.....

Posted by: peteyd Mar 16 2012, 08:13 AM

After a long hiatus, I have gotten back to work on the female side of the front trunk pan.

The male side has been all polished, which took two weeks. so now I have to machine the female side and a drawpad, and then bingo bango, a new panel!

Here is a pic of the first rough cut!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 16 2012, 08:23 AM

Excellent! This is so cool to see how this happens.

Posted by: jbyron Mar 16 2012, 10:14 AM

This might be the coolest thread I've ever read. Thanks, Pete, for going to the trouble of documenting the process. It's very educational.

Posted by: MrHyde Mar 16 2012, 11:37 AM

Excellent Pete. Look like it will be done just in time for me to weld one into the 72.. I'm running out of things to weld. :-)

Posted by: gothspeed Mar 16 2012, 01:47 PM

How about a prestamped hell hole liner (battery side) ?? .......

Posted by: peteyd Mar 19 2012, 10:41 AM

Thanks everyone for all the positive responses. I am glad you guys are enjoying the process.

Over the weekend I got some more milling done. The center has been gone over with a 1.25" ballnose, and will still need to be finished with a .375" ballnose to be able to reach all the tight radiuses.

In the photo it is finishing the flatter areas outside of the pocket, so that I dont have to run over it with another cutter which would just be wasting time.

Posted by: peteyd Mar 19 2012, 10:43 AM

Im not quite sure what you mean. All the pieces for that area are being made currently.

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 19 2012, 11:52 AM

He is talking about a piece that covers the corugated inside long hell hole piece behind the -4 motor mount and for -6's also.

It would be u shaped with a curve and pinch weld flanges.


What about 11 inch rear flairs ??

Posted by: peteyd Mar 19 2012, 01:50 PM

Definately not enough of a market for those, too much initial cost for the dies

Posted by: Niklas Mar 19 2012, 02:01 PM

When will this part be ready to buy?
Will you make different parts of it or just all of it ?
have you any ideas about the price ?

Niklas

Posted by: gothspeed Mar 19 2012, 02:46 PM

Maybe others can chime in but IMO the greater part of most 914s have 'hell hole' corrosion. Mine has the superficial liner completely gone.

this is the spot;

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=98175&hl=hell++hole

There is a kit but it is all flat pieces that needs welding and fabrication in and of itself.

If there was a preshaped piece that droped in and spot welded or riveted in place ............ then seam sealed and painted .......... that would be the ticket!!!!!

It would be small and you would sell A LOT of them!!!

I did a quick 'title' search for hell hole and got three pages worth right off the bat.

Posted by: peteyd Mar 19 2012, 05:01 PM

Its hard to tell when the part will be ready. Tonight I will change the tool, and then it will run for 173 hours straight. Then probably another 50 hours with a smaller tool to get in the tight radiuses. After that, 2 weeks of polishing. I still have to make a drawpad, drawings are in the beginning of the thread if you missed that piece. I also have to make feet for the die to sit on and mill holes in the mounting plate of the male for the nitrogen cylinders to fit through. This probably doesn't make any sense to most of you guys, so I will document it all. After all is finished, then there is still the blank development stage, and most likely spots on the die that are still too tight, which will need to be polished more. It is hard to estimate, but maybe another 2 months. Not all my time is focused on this one die currently, there are several that I work on constantly.

I have finished the drawings for the corner reinforcement pieces that fit on the pan too. The steel is ordered, so I can start milling that die out once that arrives.

I have not figured out a price yet either. I was toying with the idea of an initial sale that would be a reduced price from the final one, just so everyone here watching the progress could take advantage.

Posted by: peteyd Mar 19 2012, 05:09 PM

Please never rivet a piece of sheet metal over existing rust ! It would only make the problem worse.

I do sell these pieces though, which piece still needs to be made?

Posted by: gothspeed Mar 19 2012, 05:35 PM

^^^ The 'attaching' of any replacement panels would take place AFTER the rusted portion(s) are cut out or addressed ... ......... the corrosion on mine has yet to compromise any structural member.

That P319 'shelf' is part of it ............. I guess I can use a flat piece to splice in the remaining bottom portion (top of long) ............... thanks!

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 19 2012, 08:02 PM

We need a piece that covers 351, same shape , no corrugations.

Just like 331 has an inner stiffer/doubler.
Your 351 is actually the inner stifnfer/doubler for a smooth out layer, that faces the motor.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=168119&view=findpost&p=1625821

shows what is needed, a piece to double the current offering.

Ina 914 this inner piece shown only goes half way across and the outer piece spans across with the flange up. against the battery tray wall. another layer would not hurt. jeff


Attached image(s)

Posted by: gothspeed Mar 26 2012, 10:35 AM

I get it now ........ you are correct ......... the top part I am gonna 'splice in' on mine, would be the top part of a non corrugated inner long (which is not yet made?), a 'beauty cover' so to speak. Which would double onto the corrugated one in the pictures above.

peteyd ....... how about some steel rocker 'ends' for GT flares?? modeled after the getty fiberglass versions .. maybe?

Posted by: peteyd Mar 27 2012, 11:09 AM

After 175 hours, this is what the die looks like...



You can see where I changed the carbide insert for the cutter. I changed it about every 12 hours and used 12 inserts. Obviously some of the inserts were used longer than that, but 12 hours is what I found was a good time to make a change.

The longer I leave one in, the more polishing I need to do to blend all the surfaces.

The outer edge was done with a larger 1.25" ballnose cutter and had a larger stepover too, so that is why it looks rougher and less shiny.

You can see here how the insert wears.

Posted by: peteyd Mar 27 2012, 11:19 AM

Your right, that part is not yet made. I guess I will have to make that in the future too eh?

Steel rocker ends would be nice, I agree. But it all comes down to the demand again. I just dont see enough people wanting these when the fibreglass ones are made and would be cheaper than the steel.

I could be wrong though. You guys keep telling me what I should make, and I appreciate that. It helps me gauge the demand for these parts and helps me decide if it will be profitable for RD.

Posted by: ape914 Mar 27 2012, 06:23 PM

They had numerical controlled machine tools well before 1969. I used to run with one that used paper punch tape for the memory. Either the light beam passed thru a hole, or it was blocked by solid paper (no hole). The photo diode picked up the light or lack of light and that was how it was coded. Long spools of paper tape (one inch wide) were used. This was 1960's technology!

Of course they may have used a tracer mill, where a wood or plaster form is made the same shape as the desired part, and then a stylus is moved over the surface of the form, the milling maching copied the path of the stylus on the metal part to be machined. This was all done with mechanical linkages and arms. This is even older technology.

It was not so bad back in 1969, remember that's when we actually could send a man to the moon, much more than we can do today.

Posted by: Jeffs9146 May 31 2012, 12:02 PM

Any update on this item??

Posted by: Niklas Jun 1 2012, 12:21 PM

Yes I am also looking for news on this part.
Are you going to sell just the hole part or can we buy the part just under the lights ?

Niklas

Posted by: peteyd Jun 1 2012, 12:29 PM

Alright you asked for it,

I am machining the drawpad as I type this. It is running the finishing pass, and then I have to cut out the slug in the center.

The reason I did things in this order, is so I can clamp the piece to the table. I have two dowels holding the piece from twisting and then two clamps in the center. After the machining is done on the outside, I will put clamps on the exterior and cut out the slug in the middle.

I circled the dowel positions in red

Posted by: peteyd Jun 1 2012, 12:29 PM

Posted by: Niklas Jun 17 2012, 05:47 AM

Any update on this ?
I need this part for my car.

Niklas

Posted by: sixnotfour Jun 17 2012, 10:42 AM

Thank You, after following this auction ,It made me



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Posted by: rdauenhauer Jun 17 2012, 02:11 PM

Pete slight OT but is the Eng. bar mount (particularly the Passenger side) for a /4 available as a reproduction?

Posted by: peteyd Jun 17 2012, 07:09 PM

Almost done this piece. Had the die in the press, but was getting some wrinkling. So a little bit of an adjustment, and we should have these ready soon.

Posted by: peteyd Jun 17 2012, 07:10 PM

We currently do not make the engine mounting bracket for either side yet. I guess that will have to be made too eh?

Pete

Posted by: shuie Jun 17 2012, 07:46 PM

The corner piece or the pan? Or, everything?

Posted by: peteyd Jun 17 2012, 08:50 PM

The corner piece, but the pan die will be going into the press this week. Hopefully we will get a good part first stamping, but it never really seems to go that easily.

Posted by: Niklas Jun 18 2012, 04:08 AM

Yes we are looking forward to see the parts.
Do you know what the prices will be ?

Niklas

Posted by: peteyd Jun 21 2012, 02:41 PM

Time for an update.

We managed to load the die into the press yesterday. There is a total of ten nitrogen cylinders that have 1800 psi in them. They hold up the draw pad higher than the male half of the die. When the female half of the die comes down, it first clamps the sheet metal between the draw pad and the female half of the die. The press then goes into high pressure mode and starts to compress the nitrogen cylinders. (BTW, this press has a maximum of 500 tons of pressure.) This process makes sure that the sheet metal is clamps around the perimeter and in theory should make for less wrinkles and folds.

Sometimes different amounts of pressure need to be placed in different areas.

You can see in the picture that there is still wrinkling. We only did one stamping so far. Now we have to test out different amounts of pressure in different spots, as well as different blank shapes and sizes.

It might take a couple days to fine tune it, and get a perfect part. There are still holes in the pan for drainage and for the vertical tubes under the headlight buckets. There are some edges at the front that need to be hammer formed as well. So once we have stamped a good part, that still needs to be done.

Posted by: Niklas Jun 21 2012, 03:24 PM

Looking good!!

Maybe oil the sheet metal when you press it so it will form smoother?

Niklas

Posted by: sixnotfour Jun 21 2012, 03:46 PM

The Blems will make good AC hole patches.

Posted by: Black22 Jun 21 2012, 06:21 PM

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Jun 21 2012, 07:04 PM

I will take one!!!

Posted by: pjf Jun 21 2012, 08:57 PM

I only need enough to cover an AC hole too. Any chance of you selling the "irregulars"?

Posted by: rdauenhauer Jun 21 2012, 10:19 PM

You betcha! Ill take that one!

Posted by: shuie Jun 21 2012, 10:25 PM

Posted by: peteyd Jun 22 2012, 06:19 AM

The parts are not "coined" meaning the die has not come down fully because of the folds. The stamping is not crisp, and I do not want to send out a mediocre product.

I know you only need the AC cutout, but from the picture you cannot see that the lines are not clean and crisp.

We will continue to work with it. If we get some stampings that are crisp, but still not good enough as a whole piece, then I will consider selling one.

Pete

Posted by: pjf Jun 22 2012, 06:52 AM

That makes sense. I didn't consider that the piece wouldn't be fully formed by the creases. Good luck with finishing this piece. I'll definitely be buying one either way.

Posted by: Racer Chris Jun 22 2012, 12:41 PM

Excellent first test!
Using that "scrap" piece would be way better than scabbing in a section grabbed from a donor car with 5 layers of paint hiding all the rust.
I know some cars that would consider it an upgrade, lol!

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jun 22 2012, 01:01 PM

Yeah! You should sell your scrap/test pieces at a discounted rate to those who don't care so much. That being said, the parts you guys produce are works of art and I understand the need to ensure that every piece that leaves there is up to your standards. Thank you for giving us a place to go - I know many owners of cars who aren't so fortunate.

Posted by: JmuRiz Jun 22 2012, 01:08 PM

Man, I wish you guys made parts for the Mercedes W114/115!!!

Posted by: obscurity Jul 8 2012, 07:37 AM

I can't speak for others but I need the engine mount. Any plans for those any time soon. 8) By the way this thread is amazing. I am a closet CNC junkie.

John

Posted by: RON S. Jul 8 2012, 10:46 AM

Excellent progress Pete,

It'll be right soon...


Ron

Posted by: peteyd Jul 9 2012, 08:18 AM

I made some adjustments to the die last week, and we should be trying to stamp another part this week.

updates to come...

Posted by: MrHyde Jul 9 2012, 11:07 AM

Excellent.. I just finished with the gas tank bay and rear trunk and painted them on the weekend... moving onto the engine bay next, then I'll be ready for the front trunk..

Posted by: peteyd Jul 10 2012, 03:16 PM

We were working on this die the whole day today. I got rid of the folding in the one corner with the draw bead that I put in as you can see in the first pic.

We have decided that we will sell this part for the guys who need to repair their A/C cutout.

The final product will be laser trimmed, have the drain holes below the headlight buckets trimmed out and then the edges hammer formed to replicate the original from Porsche. Im not sure if we are going to cut out the plug sections.

We will continue to work out the kinks this week with some more polishing and grinding, but if you want to put in an order for one of the A/C cutout pieces, then give us a call.

Pete



Here is where there is still some wrinkling.

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 10 2012, 03:31 PM

Very nice ...

Posted by: peteyd Jul 11 2012, 08:19 AM

We've had a couple calls already for these trunk pans. The die is out of the press for further work. I can sell the few that were stamped yesterday, I think theres only 2 or 3, but there will be more in two to three weeks.

The final product will be a little bit longer, we need to have the laser program fine tuned and some punches made up to put flanges on the part.

Pete

Posted by: rdauenhauer Jul 11 2012, 08:47 AM

I wouldn't bother cutting out the plugs, just another area to seal. If someone was interested in a true Concourse resto they could cut them themselves.

Posted by: 9146986 Jul 11 2012, 09:10 AM

You could include a sheet with the hole locations and diameters for the "have to be perfect" customers. For probably 75% of the guys that need this, the fewer holes the better.

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Jul 11 2012, 10:01 AM

Pete, I spoke with Mike this morning and he has said that the price for the ones that were stamped first with the AC section cut out are being sold at the standard price?

$225 plus shipping for the AC section
and more for the whole piece section.

FYI: He said that because the AC section is "perfect" that there is not a discount for the early stamped sections cut for AC!

Posted by: peteyd Jul 11 2012, 10:34 AM

Ultimately Mike has the last word, hes the boss.

But ya, these parts are perfect for the A/C cutout. Theres no wrinkling.

I only want quality parts heading out the door. I dont know what everyone was expecting pricewise, but as everyone has wittnessed, there is alot of work involved in making a die and then perfecting the part. The payback period for this die will be several years.

Pete

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Jul 11 2012, 11:04 AM

No Problem Pete!

Thanks for getting back to me!

Posted by: 9146986 Jul 11 2012, 02:56 PM

That's a reasonable price Pete. I hope you sell enough to re-coup your tooling costs.

Posted by: natebg Jul 11 2012, 05:21 PM

I need one of these.

Posted by: eamesonly Jul 20 2012, 10:32 PM

I would like one as well.

Someone went nuts with the ac...

KC

Posted by: MrHyde Aug 12 2012, 05:13 PM

Good work on the A/C patch / front trunk panel Pete.. Hopefully going to be trimming, fitting and welding this in next weekend. I will post pics of the install
BTW I just got the A/C patch.



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Posted by: MrHyde Sep 2 2012, 07:14 AM

Just thought I'd pop this pic up on the world... New front trunk pan A/C patch welded in. Droped right in.




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Posted by: lotus_65 Sep 4 2012, 12:48 PM

I need one!

Posted by: peteyd Sep 4 2012, 01:25 PM

Thanks for putting that up Mike!




Give us a call!

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 4 2012, 02:00 PM

Posted by: Racer Chris Sep 4 2012, 08:04 PM

Posted by: lotus_65 Sep 5 2012, 01:18 PM

Ok! I went to the site before and didn't see anything listed. Calling in a bit...

Posted by: peteyd Sep 5 2012, 04:51 PM

I sold the one and only i had to MrHyde, but the die will be going back in the press next week. With only one 500 ton press, there are a lot of dies that need that much tonnage to make a crisp part, so sometimes there is a line up. We did some more grinding on the die to make a better part, so hopefully we can start a production run. Im assuming you only need the AC cutout, so I can definitely get you one of those next week regardless if it is still not perfect.

Posted by: seanery Sep 5 2012, 05:19 PM

great work Pete!

How long will your die last? I ask this because I saw a show about the Denver mint and their nickel presses have their dies replaced at least once a week!

thanks!

Posted by: peteyd Sep 5 2012, 08:04 PM

Thanks Sean,

Wow, once a week! They must be making a lot of money there! The die should last for at least ten thousand hits. Probably will never even stamp that many

Posted by: peteyd Oct 1 2012, 09:17 AM

double post...

Posted by: peteyd Oct 1 2012, 09:18 AM

We are almost there! I think we will have a good wrinkle free stamp by the end of the week. There is still work to be done on the laser trimmer and then the edges to be folded up.

Here is a picture of what we have to do to check all the tight spots for clearance.
We first stamp two small sections of sheet metal where we know there is no tight spots. Then we place small pieces of lead(solder strips) on the die in several spots. Shut the press with full 500 tonnes and then measure the thickness of each piece of lead to determine where more polishing needs to be done.

You can see where the tight spots are written in marker. It varies from .029-.049 I know that it doesn't seem like much, but .20 will keep the die from shutting fully and thus cause our wrinkling.

Posted by: Niklas Oct 1 2012, 12:01 PM

Hi!

What will the price be when you start to sell the part ?

Niklas

Posted by: peteyd Oct 1 2012, 01:14 PM

The pan will probably be around $325

Posted by: jcd914 Oct 1 2012, 10:19 PM

What is the clearance you are looking for?

Jim

Posted by: peteyd Oct 2 2012, 06:35 AM

I'm looking for clearance of around .042

The sheet metal we have right now is .040, but who is to say it wont be .048 next time. There is always a variance between each roll, and each roll is not always consistent either. We buy rolls of steel that have been rejected by Ford, GM, Toyota etc... The steel is very good quality, just sometimes it doesn't meet the prime standards that these companies can demand.

Posted by: Niklas Dec 6 2012, 03:05 PM

Are these ready to buy ??


Niklas

Posted by: peteyd Dec 6 2012, 06:58 PM

These are almost ready to buy! I just finished milling out a die to bend the edges. They still need to be trimmed as well.

The A/C cut out patch is available now, its the full piece with both "ears" that still needs some work.

I will post some pictures tomorrow...


Pete

Posted by: zymurgist Dec 6 2012, 11:43 PM

Cool! Babydoll needs one of these.

Posted by: peteyd Dec 10 2012, 07:26 AM

Ok, I said I would add more photos.

This picture is the hammerform that I finished off on Friday.



Just testing the form on the sides. I still have to put clamps on to hold the sheetmetal flat.



Here is the front edge being hammered. I trimmed too much metal off of the front edge so there wasnt much to hammer.



And here is the laser that will be trimming all of the parts. I will have some footage of that soon as well.

Posted by: Niklas Dec 10 2012, 08:19 AM

Looking good!!!

Keep up the good work!!!


Niklas

Posted by: jimbot2000 Dec 16 2012, 07:00 AM

Oh, do I need this!

Posted by: barada Dec 16 2012, 08:25 AM

MAn that is some very nice work. Are you looking into other cars? Woudl love to see someone else get into the Split Bus scene.

Keep up the good work, glad to see guys doing what they can to keep these cars on the road.


Phillip

Posted by: Gint Dec 16 2012, 12:17 PM

Far out!

Posted by: peteyd Dec 17 2012, 07:23 AM

There always needs to be an assessment of the market. Is there not much available for the split buses, or is the quality not that great? There are tons of guys making stuff for the VWs, so we are a little wary of that market. VWs guys tend to be more price sensitive as well. We are striving to make quality panels, and once we have a good stronghold on the Porsche panels, we will be looking into other makes and models.

Pete

Posted by: Dasnowman Dec 18 2012, 03:09 AM

I'll have to look at my front pan but it looks like a tow truck lifted the car by the front pan tow hook and bent it all in!

Posted by: barada Dec 18 2012, 08:21 AM

Pete,

There are several manufactors. Klassic FAb, and Autocraft are the leaders. And yes VW guys are sensitive. VW Bus guys are not, especially barndoor but I imagine demand is low. Autocraft quality is pretty good but they are out of europe, so U.S. prices are high. Klassic Fab is ok although I have spent more time fitting their panels than Autocraft.
What they do not have is a full nose, which in my experience would be a fast mover and likely would be a name your price part. A front floor is around 300-350. Compared to what you are making it looks simple. A full cargo floor is 650 and neither company never has product on hand.
I have bought metal for bugs (very cheap and decent quality) and bus's (IMO not so cheap.) I have over 3K in metal for one bus.
I just have dealt with you guys before and the pressing and quality was very good so I thought flat metal for buses would be an easy fit. Especially front floor corners and rocker panels.
Here is a comparison thread on the two.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=478200
Phillip

Posted by: Niklas Jan 3 2013, 11:49 AM

Can I order ?


Niklas

Posted by: peteyd Jan 4 2013, 11:02 AM

Im on holidays still, but will be back on Monday. Im pretty sure they are cutting them out today on the laser cutter. Should be ready very soon!

Posted by: FL 000 Jan 12 2013, 12:21 PM

I am interested in ordering an A/C patch. Let me know the details if you have one available.

Thanks,
Josh

Posted by: peteyd Jan 14 2013, 09:10 AM

The A/C patch panels are available currently.

Give me a call at 519-836-3555

or visit the website to order online.

click the link below

Posted by: McMark Jan 14 2013, 12:05 PM

busses are willing to spend more. My paint guy just got word that the 23 window he painted a few month ago just sold for $180,000.

Posted by: peteyd Jan 15 2013, 02:57 PM

Its hard to believe that I started this thread more than a year ago. I bet it seems even longer to those that have been waiting to purchase one for their car. Alas, we are finally done. I have the laser trimming the rest of them out today.

Here are a few pictures of the finished product.

And for your viewing pleasure, I will still post a video of the laser trimming the pan.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 15 2013, 04:34 PM

Congratulations! THat is so freakin' cool. Thank you for making these for our little cars.

Posted by: MrHyde Jan 15 2013, 05:16 PM

Well done !

Posted by: peteyd Jan 16 2013, 06:59 AM

Here is the video of the pan being trimmed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q59cucGBVI

Posted by: cary Jan 17 2013, 06:49 AM

Nice .................just glad I don't need one. LOL.

Posted by: natebg Jan 17 2013, 07:28 AM

Ordered mine. Thank you!

Posted by: bgconsul Apr 3 2013, 09:58 AM

Hello ,
I sent you a PM today for your trunk pan.
Thanks

Posted by: peteyd Apr 4 2013, 10:06 AM

replied

Posted by: Niklas Apr 4 2013, 01:35 PM

Can make just the part under the lights ? Left and right ?

Niklas

Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 4 2013, 02:01 PM

Lasers are Cool! Nice!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 4 2013, 04:53 PM

Man.... I wish my car needed a front pan just because that is so darn nice. Really I am happy not to have to replace my pan - but that is a beautiful part and you should be very proud of your work. Thanks so much for supporting these cars so we have parts to put on them.

Any chance you can whip out a couple of front fenders????? (just joking)

Posted by: peteyd Apr 5 2013, 01:23 PM

Niklas,

yes we offer that part under the headlights.

P337CL/CR

check out the website

Posted by: peteyd Apr 5 2013, 01:24 PM

Thanks Mike,

and I will get on those fenders right away!

Posted by: zymurgist Apr 15 2013, 08:48 AM

Are you coming to Hershey? I'd love it if you could bring one with you.