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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:14 PM

So, since I have not had the cash to go racing as much as I wanted this year, I decided to pull out my 5 point (too old to race with anyway) and put in my stock 3pts for now.

Well, I couldn't get one to unlock, and after about 10 min of talking nice, I saw a green flash and next thing I knew the belt was broken into many pieces all over my welding table...

So, this prompted me to go looking for some newer seatbelts that would work. After a little bit of searching in the archives I found that Karl had used 944 belts in the past with good luck.

After about a day of searching on ebay I had a set of '85 944 belts on the way...and following is how I put them in...only took about 1hr with pretty basic tools. Of course, I have a gutted interior, so it will probably take most a little longer to get the backbad out of the way and pull out the old belts.

So, once you get all the old stuff out of the way, this is what you have (on 74 cars and later):


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:16 PM

here is a closer shot...the reel mounts with one 17mm bolt and a centering pin which goes in the hole above the bolt hole:


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:18 PM

Here is a shot of the backside of the new reels...the bolt and pin spacing is the same, but the pin on the 944 belts is a little larger and a little longer than the 914 one:


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:19 PM

mocking it up...looks like it will fit


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:21 PM

I used a 1/4" bit in my little drill to enlarge the hole enough to accept the new pin:


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:23 PM

However, after making the hole big enough, I found that the reel wasn't sitting flush with the firewall...the pin was longer than the 914 pin...so after a few seconds on the bench grinder...I took about 1/8th of an inch off the new pin:


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:25 PM

After that it bolted right up...the new guide bolts right in also, another 17mm bolt, and same with the anchor:


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:28 PM

Here are all the different buckles I had to choose from:

944 rear buckle | stock 914 buckle | 944 front buckle


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:34 PM

I tested, and the new belts do work with the stock buckles, so if you wanted to keep them you could...the 944 front buckles would require some grinding or pounding of the center tunnel, due to the barrel swivel at the base of them. I chose to use the rear buckles so that I could thread the new belts through the harness holes on my race seat.


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:37 PM

So, here is the final result with the belt threaded in the seat...I have driven the car a couple days now and I really like it alot, threading it through the holes keeps the belt nice and tight over my hips, and the new reels are smooth as silk...also worked so well for the passenger side, nobody has commented, meaning the belt works as it should. Instead of everyone asking how to make the belt unreel all the time


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:39 PM

other side


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:43 PM

And now for the bonus...I created my own rearview mirror holder that attaches to the visor mount. After all the talk earlier about these, I figured I could make my own. Then I found a sweet parabolic mirror that clips onto an existing mirror at my local flaps for only 8bucks...so I created this:


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:44 PM

Its made out of some left over stainless I had and a stainless rod that I bent.


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Posted by: seanery Jul 21 2004, 01:46 PM

Looks good Tony!

Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:46 PM

cool clip on mirror...racer parts wants 50 bucks for their parabolic mirror...


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:47 PM

backside with the clips...the are spring loaded and hold it very well:


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:48 PM

mounted:


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 01:50 PM

With this mirror I can see the cars that are driving next to me as well as behind...so now I don't need to mount that pass side mirror.

I hope this was helpful to somebody...if anyone want any more info feel free to ask:


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Posted by: McMark Jul 21 2004, 02:59 PM

I read something about the 944 belts upgrade recently and that article said that the pins were a screw in deal that you could unscrew the thinner, shorter 914 pin and put it on the 944 belt retractor.

I'm gonna have to look for some 944 belts now.

Posted by: Demick Jul 21 2004, 03:37 PM

One question. What is the orientation of the 944 belt reel in a 944? In the 914 it is mounted side to side (axis of the reel is parallel with the firewall which is side to side). Most cars mount their reels front to back (mounted to the base of the B-pillar so the reel is parallel with the sidewall of the car which is front to back). If the 944 mounts it's belts in this fashion, then this may be an unsafe thing to do.

The inertial reel mechanism will work fine, but most seatbelts also have a pendulum lock-up mechanism that locks the belts when a certain amount of deceleration is sensed. The pendulum mechanism will not work properly unless the belts are mounted in the same orientation as the car they are designed for. I suspect the orientation is wrong for using the 944 belts in a 914.

Just want you all to be safe!

Demick

Posted by: thesey914 Jul 21 2004, 03:51 PM

Would the original 914 belt have this pendulum design feature back in 1969 onwards?
I was thinking that if the reel mech works ( but not the pendulum )then it may be *as good* as the original belts.

Posted by: itsa914 Jul 21 2004, 04:06 PM

Worked well when Tony took me for a ride while in Austin Monday.



I was able to make the belt lock with a quick tug. Not a crash test, but it "seem" to work fine

-Garold

Posted by: lapuwali Jul 21 2004, 04:08 PM

The original 914s didn't have reel belts at all. They had fixed belts. I think the switchover was '72. Personally, I prefer fixed belts to inertia reel belts. Never any concern about the reel, and they can be cinched down to hold me in nearly as well as four-point belts, without quite as much hassle day to day as an actual harness.

Posted by: Curvie Roadlover Jul 21 2004, 04:15 PM

Yeah, but they're a pain to re adjust when there are different drivers or passengers, not to mention when you want to roll the pass. window down or up and your belts are cinched.

Posted by: bondo Jul 21 2004, 04:17 PM

I did the same thing but with 924 belts. The 924 buckle is just like the 914 (on a sort of stiff cable) and mounts the same. I like the 924 buckle more because the release button is on the top (as mounted) not the side, and I find it easier to press. The 924 has the same pin issue, I just broke the pin off of mine as the mounting bolt holdes it securely enough, and the pull on it is always the same direction.

Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 04:21 PM

As Garold said above, the lock-up mechanism seems to work as well as it does in any car that I have driven in. I don't think the pendulum in these reels is a directional device.

When I was handling the reels unless I held it in the proper orientation (ie the belt being unreeled upwards) the belt would lock...so it would lock if you held the reel forward, or if you held it sideways.

The same manufacture makes all the belts for all the porsches (REPA)...and from the several sets I have looked at they all seem to be very similar, so it would supprise me if they had direction specific mechanisms.

But from a realworld standpoint, I have been able to lock the belt with a quick stop, so I imagine in an accident it would work as it should.

Thanks for the concern,

Tony

Posted by: cha914 Jul 21 2004, 04:25 PM

Mark D,

I didn't even check to see if the pin would unscrew...I have been doing so much grinding lately, it was the first thing I did when I saw it was a little longer than it needed to be...

Yours,

Tony

Posted by: McMark Jul 21 2004, 05:49 PM

If your backpad is still out you can unscrew the fat plastic cover (notice they're differnet thicknesses) and take a look at (picture) of the locking mechanism. I'll take a picture of a 914 one I have here.

Posted by: McMark Jul 21 2004, 09:21 PM

Here's the stock pendulum trigger. You can see the top and the bottom of the pendulum, but the wire hanger is hidden by the wheel.


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Posted by: itsa914 Jul 22 2004, 07:42 AM

So this woud work in a 70 -72 teener with the NON reel belts? As Curvie said, they are a pain to adjust.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 22 2004, 08:26 AM

wow, thanks for the info!

great info!!

itsa914: at least SOME of the 72s had these type belts... both of my '72s had them.. I think it was only 70-71 that didn't

Posted by: itsa914 Jul 22 2004, 08:30 AM

I knew 70 & 71 had them but wasn't sure about 72.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jul 22 2004, 02:58 PM

In 72, they changed the firewall slightly to accomodate the inertia reel belt mechanism. Compare a 70 to a (late?) 72 some time. The backpad is also different.

Some 72s had inertia-reel and some did not. I am not sure if it was early versus late in the year, or if the inertia reels were an option, or what. I think at least some of the 72s that had the adjustable belts also had the provision in the firewall to fit the inertia reel mechanism.

--DD

Posted by: seanery Jul 22 2004, 03:15 PM

Does anyone know if you can get 924/944 belts new at a reasonable rate?

Posted by: MarkV Jul 22 2004, 03:37 PM

I have a real clean set of used ones that I will sell for what I paid for them. $29.00


I bought a new set of 914 retractors a few years ago & they were getting lazy like the originals. The plan was to replace them w/ 944 units. I ended up cutting 24" of belt off the 914 units, they now work perfect. Was going to put the 944 units on Ebay.

Posted by: Qarl Jul 22 2004, 03:59 PM

You're welcome! ha ha!

I did this mod years ago to my last 914. The inertia real worked great!

Almost too great. Sometimes it was hard to change stations on the radio without the seatbelt grabbing.

Good advice about the pin. I didn't realize that years ago either about the pin being removable.

I don't think 944 seatbelts new are any cheaper. Check with the REPA company in the back of any PANO magazine.

Later!

Posted by: MarkV Jul 22 2004, 04:16 PM

You can get new ones here:

http://www.peparts.com/StoreFront.bok

Posted by: brant Jul 22 2004, 04:18 PM

one question:

so is it the 944 fronts or 944 rears that should be sought out to use.

brant

Posted by: Air_Cooled_Nut Jul 22 2004, 06:51 PM

The 944 seat belt and the 914 buckle look exactly like the ones in my '72 air-cooled VW and that's nice to know when looking for needed parts...

Nice write up!

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 22 2004, 07:28 PM

On my 74 I found some new belts in the rear seats of a late 80's Mercedes 300. Perfect fit straight bolt in also 10 bucks.

Right now my 70 has the 5 point cam lock and I am getting pretty tired of them. Plan to get racing soon so I will leave in and suck it up. I have the original non-retractable belts but the webbing is pretty bad so I will just suck it up some more.

Posted by: MarkV Jul 22 2004, 09:49 PM

Andrew,

Here is a photo:


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Posted by: MarkV Jul 22 2004, 09:50 PM

back


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Posted by: cha914 Jul 23 2004, 10:35 AM

Brant,

You want the 944 front belts (reels) and then you can use whatever buckle you like. I used the rear buckles because of how short they were.

I did get a set of rear reels cause I bought a whole belt set on ebay (40 bucks delievered btw)...but I think they are ment to mount in a different orientation than the fronts, plus I think the belts are shorter.

Tony

Posted by: Tobra Mar 31 2006, 09:16 AM

I realize this is old news, but hey, everybody needs seatbelts. I have two queries: Does anyone have any pics of the 924 belts? Why is this not a classic thread?

Oh, and it seems to me if the orient-ation of the pin/bolt is the same, they expected similar forces to act on them.

Posted by: cha914 Mar 31 2006, 10:33 AM

I remember this thread! lol ...

I am still using these belts and still love them...

Tony

Posted by: lapuwali Mar 31 2006, 12:44 PM

I'm not sure replacing 30 year old belts with 20 year old belts is much of an upgrade. Nylon webbing does age. If they were NOS belts and cheap, OK. However, you can buy brand-new perfectly good seatbelts from several places online that aren't expensive, at all. Hunting for used belts on Ebay just isn't cost-effective, IMHO.

Posted by: cha914 Mar 31 2006, 03:49 PM

I donno, trading 30yr old sun faded belts that wouldn't retract for non-faded 15-20yr old belts with smooth retraction and good locking mechanisms seemed like a rather large upgrade.

However, you are right, still not as good as new...

Tony

Posted by: Tobra Apr 4 2006, 08:23 AM

Not as good as new, and if it is a wrecking yard, it could have been wrecked, causing damage not readily evident. I know all these things, but I have not seen retractable belts I like, though I have not searched extensively. It is more likely I can pick up seat belts for any newer car really, not just a Porsche, maybe a Golf or something

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=ZVW20BBK

et Voila. $110, look like they would fit, definitely would need shorter female end, bug seats sit up TALL