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Posted by: IM101 Oct 3 2011, 03:17 PM

1/26/2015 update: After a rocky year, Re-focusing, moving the shop, and getting some help.

12/09/2013 update: The shop is back up and running, production on cradles to start next monday.

11/26/2013 update: Still on the hunt for a good position, but planning on officially moving the rest of my shop over after thanksgiving Stay tuned for production run status!

10/13/013 update: Had what looked like an good gig but it went sideways on me... May have figured out a temporary shop to get things going in... priority 1 is a cable shift bracket. Also posted what inventory i have left on the second post of my vendor thread.

9/1/2013 update: Wedding and honeymoon went great! Just trying to get settled in Boise now and land a paycheck job to support a resume in operations. Check on page 9 for details.

5/20/2013 update: Getting married and moving, help me make it happen, take advantage of my stock liquidation. prices listed in the 2nd post of my http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=191930. Details of the move are on page 9 of this thread

1/2/2012 update: After a too long of a wait the Axles are finally done Shipping to customers will commence ASAP.

11/9/2012 update: In my ongoing quest to make the conversion process simpler and cheaper I have now become a Small Car Performance and Speed hut dealer. both allowing me to pass on a little bit of a discount to customers. If you have any questions feel free to ask!

09/12/2012 update: I'm very exited to announce that my website is live! feel free to check it out http://coldwater914.com. It is a work in progress but I'm very please with how it is turning out.

8/7/2012 update: I'm gearing up for my first production run this coming weekend, to see some pictures and descriptions go to my member vendor thread: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=191930


If any of those winter projects are Subaru conversions I would just like to inform you of what is coming down the pipeline...
Lots of groundwork has been laid in the realm of Subaru conversions with guys like porscharu and DBcooper not to mention the ankle biter thread. The moral of the story is it is a great option for these little cars, excellent reliability, MPG... and of course power.

The conversion has been done, and well, many times. However like many conversions it takes time, there are many different pieces to the subi conversion puzzle and they all have to be fabricated, sourced, and installed. A process that can take months if not years depending on how much spare time is available.

I'm working on a solution to that however. One place that someone can get everything needed for the Subaru conversion. The engine cradle the axles the transmission (if going with the Subaru box over the 901) and even a turnkey engine... for DIY'ers or plug and play guys. The 914/Subaru conversion, simplified.

So if you're thinking about a Subaru conversion fell free to ask questions and be sure to stay tuned.

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 3 2011, 04:01 PM

Doing this right now... Not just for the 914. Turnkey optimized engines are already selling and development is in full swing to include exhaust systems, mounts and adaptors.

Yep a one stop shop-(Sounds like we think alike)

The website will be up within a month and you can see what we have been doing behind the green curtain

Posted by: r_towle Oct 3 2011, 04:11 PM

a subaru STI conversion for a 356 would be something I might go for if the turnkey option is available.

Rich

Posted by: dion9146 Oct 3 2011, 04:43 PM

I'm not planning a Subaru conversion, but I am happy to announce that I have rejoined the Subaru family by buying a nicely used Forester for the better half. I feel so much closer to you all now.....

Posted by: kg6dxn Oct 3 2011, 04:56 PM

I'm building my 914 trailer right now. As soon as it's mobile and out of the garage, Sasquach goes under the knife. Up to the point of destruction, the rotary engine was awesome. Just dont leave your crank angle sensor loose. mine mounts like a distributor. Lots of swing when loose. The power is incredable! I will be offering rides once it's running again. You must experience it before you knock it!

Posted by: d914 Oct 3 2011, 05:07 PM

I'm finally working on mine again,, wiring in the highway 15 kit,, then on to plumbing.. playing with the idea of a custom aluminum gas tank. preliminary measurements give me about 14 gals useable with keeping the design simple.. $$$ aren't too bad $300-400.. I'm going to play a bit more then see about pulling the trigger..

and to relive every bodies fears,,, NO I WILL NOT BE MAKING IT!!

Posted by: kg6dxn Oct 3 2011, 05:11 PM

How about this one? It will fit with minor massaging. Better yet, it looks pro not home built.

RCI 2161A

Posted by: d914 Oct 3 2011, 05:16 PM

never mind 9in.............mmmm hammer not so big

I'm looking at pro built!! it is gas after all!! That's 12 in across.. sounds like hammer time for part of the length??

Posted by: IM101 Oct 3 2011, 05:24 PM

Lol sorry kg6dxn. I ment ankle biter thread. Freudian slip there as I was just looking at ur thread.. not nocking a rotary in anyway.. quite a sweet engineering in my opinion..

Posted by: IM101 Oct 3 2011, 05:31 PM

Jake I seem to recall you mocking water cooled conversions.. but cool I'm exited to see what kind of monster you guys can come out with..
and here I was thinking that renagade was the only other guys doing something similar.

In anycase I wouldn't want all the work thus far to be a complete waste so the 914 world may have two one stop shops.

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 3 2011, 05:47 PM

The Suby conversion makes sense.. We will continue to provide aircooled solutions as well, just like always. The aircooled engines are now more expensive than ever and more difficult to produce.

The Suby market is very large outside of conversions so its worth our development. Our expansion into the watercooled Porsche M96 engine several years ago found us with all the capabilities required to offer an awesome Suby powerplant.

At the present we are working with LN Engineering to make the largest big bore kits ever available. Len Hoffman is working on cylinder head development and I have reconfigured our R&D dyno to support the Suby engine exclusively. I have been working to develop several camshaft grinds and other parts as well.

Conversions are just part of the plan. Bolting the engine in seamlessly and smartly is what makes the conversion more welcome; having an application specific engine combination does the rest. I am currently bolting in an EJ25 based engine into a '73 Superbeetle and as always the VW will be more my focus than the 914. This EJ25 will end up a 2.9 liter animal with "Snickies" in 104.5mm. With a regeared Quaife equipped 915, 6 piston 996TT brakes and wheels its going to be a beast.

The 914 was the one application that my plan hasn't focused on, so perhaps we can work together rather than against each other? That makes sense.

I have 3 turnkey big bore engines sold (underway) and we haven't even advertised that we are doing the work yet :-)

Yes, I do prefer my crow served warm.. I believe the definition of a fool is a person that can't change his/ her mind. Thus far anyone who has learned of what we are developing with the Suby has been shocked but at the same time they have all stated that they can't wait to see where this goes~

No we offer a true choice, air or water cooled engines with the Raby brand. Other people have certainly done this in the past, but building the engine from the inside out then supporting its conversion has never been done in the manner that we are attacking it.

Posted by: a914622 Oct 3 2011, 06:19 PM

Im in the prosses of pulling out the chevy DZ302 out right now!! I have a sweet closed deck 2.2 with 2001 SOHC heads and a little boost going in.

Is there a cradle offered? I planed on making what i needed


jcl

Posted by: JRust Oct 3 2011, 07:28 PM

Holy crapola it is mainstream now! SUBY SUBY SUBY!

Ian I still think it is a good idea to do something with the suby conversions. Jake does amazing work. It sounds like he is doing more development with building a monster suby motor. Knowing the way Jake does things it will all be first rate. It also won't be cheap which is absolutely justified with the work he puts into his builds & kits. Having said all that there is definately room for someone for teeners doing it on the cheap. Teeners who don't want a compete kit. There will be plenty of guys who want parts to do the conversion. I would concentrate on the guys doing it on the cheap. Jake is a long way from Oregon. Plenty of room for all

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 3 2011, 07:31 PM

Oregon is 3 days via UPS :-)

Like I said, 914 is not my primary focus but the developments are universal. Plenty of room for more players here, nothing motivates me like a friendly battle :-)

It won't be cheap and will only be complete; thats the only way I do things.

Posted by: JRust Oct 3 2011, 07:49 PM

I agree about plenty of room for more players. Love having you on here Jake. It would be a little cooler to start your own thread touting your new suby production. Let the guy have his thread to gage interest

Okay so let's get back to what you are planning to bring to the suby conversion process IM101 (Ian). Besides a turn key setup what do you have in mind? What parts besides a turn key will be available?

Posted by: Jake Raby Oct 3 2011, 07:59 PM

No problem. I agree.
Please delete my posts.

Posted by: pktzygt Oct 3 2011, 08:27 PM

Good luck with your venture. There seems to be plenty of market for it and those of us in progress of the swap know that there the options get complicated.

I myself am one of the "process that can take years" type of guys. I'll tell you kids, college and the good 'ol U.S.Navy can get in the way of a project this complicated. If what you are describing was around when I started, I'd be done long ago. I ended up getting a JDM ej20g and one of the hardest parts was sourcing the motor and deciding on an engine management for it.

Good luck to you!

Posted by: kg6dxn Oct 3 2011, 08:34 PM

I want to hear what Jake has planned! F the Dr.

Post all you want Jake. SEMPER FI!

Posted by: IM101 Oct 3 2011, 08:51 PM

Thank you Jamie, but I don’t sense the "DR" intent (no demeaning language or ruining of group buys)

There is no need to delete any posts; I actually almost want to thank Jake for posting. That an Icon of Porsche/VW engine building has decided to branch out to the Subaru platform only gives more credibility to the conversion. It truly is an incredible option for the 914 (and beetle... Jeeez that thing sounds like a monster Jake!), yes there is power reliability gas mileage, but also ease of maintenance (just take it down to your local Subaru dealer or Import repair shop), aftermarket support (cant even begin to list the venders available), not to mention it is still a flat four or six. From just about every angle you look at it the Subaru conversion, "makes sense."

Clearly Jake and I will be on different levels, I could not even dream to do the work that Jake and his team can accomplish, and judging from his response he doesn't want to deal with selling anything but complete setups. Where as I do not mind selling just the cradle or cv/axles or any other pieces to DIY'ers working out of there garage on a budget. Or even guys who would be happy with a paltry 200-400HP kit.

Posted by: Joe Owensby Oct 3 2011, 09:08 PM

I think there will be a lot of interest. I have been thinking of a Suby update sometime later. JoeO

Posted by: IM101 Oct 3 2011, 09:26 PM

First off great choice of engine, that set up is bomb proof. as to your question not yet but soon. read below



I have a bit in the works.
but for the short term:
A universal engine mount that will work with all of the 4cyl subaru engines and maybe the 6's if down the line i can get a hold of them.

The mount will be two stage, which will enable it to work with the 901 or the subaru 2wd converted 5mt.

If the subaru Box is chosen then the kit can include:
-the converted 5mt (with a bremer style stub/plate)
-Complete custom made (not just re-splined) CV axles with your choice of 914 or 944 German outer CV's and subaru inner CVs
-Complete Cable shift set up


In the long term I hope to include:
-Everything else...
-Complete tuned engines
-Exhaust
-Cooling set up
-and instrumentation (with the 5mt option)

Posted by: Brett W Oct 3 2011, 09:50 PM

I already have a designed and built engine bar for the FWD transmission with what ever engine. As soon as I pull the engine from my SVX and get a hold of the AWD tranny behind it I will know what mods need to be done to my engine bar design. In theory I could produce a bar for anyone that wants one right now.

Posted by: jimkelly Oct 4 2011, 05:20 AM

one of the major issues with our cars - is the cost to have a type4 rebuilt - or to have a porsche 6 rebuilt - or to have suby rebuilt. one website quotes rebuild prices from $3k for an EJ22 to $5k for an EG33. keeping costs down on a conversion really seems to rely on getting a known good engine for a good price. looking forward to what you wind up offering and nice to see jake has found a new niche. subaru engines have just risen in status, that is for certain. zoom zoom - oh wait that is mazda - hey has anyone ever thought - oh never mind : ))

link - http://www.ccrengines.com/id15.html

Posted by: Brett W Oct 4 2011, 07:13 AM

There are so many benefits to the Suby engines that unless your building an original car, there is no point in even messing with the aircooled lump. It won't make near as much power, with near as much reliability, etc. The factory fuel injection on the Suby engines are an excellent compliment to the engines. No more having to deal with carbs, points, distributors, etc.

I think as time goes on you will see more and more people buying these cars and their interest isn't in preserving some original cars. Their interest is in having a cool car to drive, and drive hard. Upgraded engines to create reliability and bring more power to the package, bigger brakes, more modern suspensions, etc. Look at what the Pro-Touring movement has done to the old school muscle cars. No more janky 60s cars, but they are now packing modern engines, TRANSMISSIONS, big brakes, modern interiors, electronics, etc. You combine the perfect look of the older cars, but bring all the supporting systems into the future.

Posted by: Brett W Oct 4 2011, 07:23 AM

Why bother with a reman engine. You can get a new short block from Subaru, for less than 3K. That is a 2.5 STI Short Block. Get your heads worked and bolt them on with new gaskets and your good to go.

Posted by: IM101 Oct 4 2011, 08:41 AM

Mostly agreed, although Air cooled tech has done a pretty good job making reliable hp on the aircooled platform, its just expensive.



Most of the cost of the rebuild is in the labor, I agree that the best option for an inexpensive conversion is finding a good used engine or being able to do the work yourself. Rebuilding is usually a result of a Bering going bad, and replacement parts, even for an STI wouldn’t break 1k or you could upgrade the internals for not that much more…
Point is if you’re going to be putting the labor in paying stealership prices for a short block and 700-1500 for the head work that kinda defeats the purpose of a budget conversion. You can find a sweet used 2.12 stroker for that price, complete. Or, again, spend half and get a good used engine that will last +150k more miles.

Posted by: IM101 Oct 4 2011, 08:49 AM

Thank you,
I have a good relationship with http://www.mttechsuba.com/ the local Subaru repair specialists and will probably be getting any used motors from them as they come with a little bit of a warranty Not to mention gone through by experienced Subaru mechanics, not the normal auto recyclers that if its under 60,000 it is rated A+ No matter the unknown internal condition

Posted by: J P Stein Oct 4 2011, 09:26 AM

I'm surprised, this is not your usual niche market strategy. There are many Subie vendors out there and I assume the competition for services is great.

I do laud your selection of the Subi motors tho. It's not an orphan, however, and you'll need to price competitively. As near as I can see, it is a completely developed package with no glaring weaknesses. There is no need to "hot rod" the motor. Brit's factory motor blows off any tire he has put under the car (12 inch slicks with LSD) when the boost comes on in 2nd gear......the "problem" is harnessing that power delivery to workable levels. Your average 914 street car guy has no idea what he's getting into with one of these turbo motors. I would think that NA is the way to go there.

Posted by: abnrdo Oct 4 2011, 11:19 AM

I am currently in the process of doing a Suby swap. I am planning on an H6 conversion. Most likely with the suby 5 speed. I am planning on building my engine mount from scratch.

Yes you are correct when you say its a lengthy process. I hope to have mine back on the road next summer.

Cheers,
JB

Posted by: Ductech Oct 4 2011, 01:08 PM

I currently have one converted using a quick six kinda bar, with stock 901 sideshift. I am currently working out a deal for an even nicer roller to recieve a ej20 turbo with a 5eat auto for the wife. This i plan on building a nice engine cradle similar to the sawtooth's design, fully oem mounted is my goal.


I'll start a thread once it comes to my new house.

Posted by: FourBlades Oct 4 2011, 01:26 PM

Other things that would make a subaru based 914 nice would be quieter running
than an air cooled and good air conditioning for people living in hot areas.

I love my type IV engine when I want to drive hard, but for cruising an hour on the
highway it is pretty noisy.

I have a suby conversion on my to do list once I finish my IMSA car.

John

Posted by: tradisrad Oct 4 2011, 01:39 PM

I would love to put a more powerful engine in my 914 and the Subaru engine seems like a good fit. Maybe someone will rear-end my Outback and then I'li have and engine and trans to put in the 914.

My biggest issue of putting a water cooled engine in is cutting the front up for a radiator; I feel that it would ruin my car (maybe I need to get over that feeling).

I would like to see a engine compartment solution for a radiator; maybe it wont work, but I thought of two smaller radiators attached to the lid.

And the last issue is heat. While the radiator in the front and a heater core in the fresh air box provides a solution this would not work as well for a rear radiator.

Posted by: Ductech Oct 4 2011, 01:51 PM

I agree with the cutting aspect. I am thinking to use two smaller radiators inside the engine bay. I don't like cutting good old cars.

Posted by: jimkelly Oct 4 2011, 02:00 PM

IM101 - one thing to keep in mind is if the car will be in a state that does emissions or does emissions and requires all emissions pieces be on motor. i'm in delaware and all 1968 cars ad later must be emission tested using a tail pipe sniffer. in CA i believe all 1974 cars and older are emissions exempt. nice to see you are sensitive to 914 owner's budget limitations : )

i think i lean NA ej25 sohc with suby trans.

http://www.renegadehybrids.com/914/Subie/Subie.html

jim

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Oct 4 2011, 02:03 PM

Installed a 2003 EZ30D H6 engine in mine.


Bob

Posted by: JRust Oct 4 2011, 02:20 PM

WANT

Posted by: IM101 Oct 4 2011, 11:37 PM

Something interesting that I have found in my development is the fact, that if done correctly you can, flip the intake, to avoid cutting into the trunk, but still retain the use of the AC compressor that is normally lost.. Another reason that this great engine is such a great match for this great car...



I have given a little thought to that. Oregon has a similar cut off date for emissions. Secretly I was hoping that California being known for its emissions laws would be the worst case out there, however it seems this is not the case. Also emissions laws are just getting more and more stringent, so who knows if the cut off date is not moved back or changed in some way here aswell. In anycase a strait tail pipe sniffer shouldn’t be too bad, I have contemplated developing an emissions safe set up down the road, something that would include all the necessary pieces ( Catalitic converter and what not) and two separate engine maps, one for testing , and one for driving.

of course a lot more research would need to be done... but its not impossible.

Posted by: ruby914 Oct 5 2011, 01:18 AM

I live in California. I have a WRX in my 914 and use the Subi ECU and gauge cluster. I have heard of the Vanaru guys passing smog, I think as a Subaru. I have most of the Subi emissions components but not all are installed yet. Stilll looking for places to put them. I am exempt as a 1974 Porsche but I hope to one day pass, if tested as a Subaru.

Posted by: jimkelly Oct 5 2011, 04:42 AM

here is a thread of one of the godfather's of the suby conversion - tony
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=31579&hl=subaru

Posted by: abnrdo Oct 5 2011, 09:13 AM

Bob,
Did you have to cut any portion of the trunk? I am looking to avoid this with my EG33 conversion.
-JB

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Oct 5 2011, 10:03 AM

I had already cut the trunk for the EG33 engine. With the EZ30 being so much smaller no trunk cutting would be needed. I do plan to repair the hole I had cut for the EG33

Bob

Posted by: Zaney Oct 5 2011, 10:13 AM

You can cut the trunk and make enough room for the Suby components beneath. Even make it look stockish

Posted by: Brett W Oct 5 2011, 11:18 AM

Done right you can use that nice weld-in panel to stiffen the chassis as well. I was planning on doing something similar on my new car.

Posted by: ruby914 Oct 5 2011, 11:35 AM

I think the cheapest conversion would be if some one came up with a complete Subaru donor car.
The motor, Transmission, ECU, wire harness and fuel pump assembly can all be used.
There is still plenty of room for a conversion parts house.
Bolt or weld in rear trunk cover is one more needed part.
I recall Steve "Porcharu" talking of making a kit with his magic axle adapters.
There is talk of needing more adapters and another production order.

For now, most if not all 914 are exempt from a smog check, not sure about 1975?
I don't know about other states but there smog laws may read like this:
http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/07_AutoRepair/Engine_Change_Guidelines.html
"If a computer–controlled engine is installed in a non–computerized vehicle, the "CHECK ENGINE" light, the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) diagnostic link, and all sensors, switches, and wiring harnesses needed to make the system fully functional must also be installed."

I have a mold that will produce a fiberglass dash for the 914 that the WRX or STI instrument clusters will fit in.
This helps bundle a fully functional plug and play system.



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Posted by: Porcharu Oct 5 2011, 01:26 PM

You guys should all know where to get those CV flanges! Given enough interest I can do another run. The more I have made the cheaper they get. Someday I will get back to my 914 project. To many other projects have got in the way - kid, other car, work.....
Steve

Posted by: IM101 Oct 5 2011, 02:17 PM

Ruby914, while I think the complete donor car would be the most convenient (for non smog exempt vehicles) I don't think it would be the cheapest. Single transmissions and engines can be found for pretty cheap. Not to mention a lot of us don't have the capability to store/disassemble/reassemble two vehicles at once.

I do really like the dash though. Carbon fiber is sweet and really looks seamless.

As to the flanges, it's a great design, I just think that its a little bit confining. The custom axles that I'm having made will be plug and play with any 5mt Subaru transmission (including stonger late model versions) and also give you the choice between "fuses" 914 or 944 cv's.

Posted by: IM101 Oct 5 2011, 02:47 PM

That is the one glaring issue with a water cooled swap.. however I believe someone has made a mid Rad NA ej25 conversion work and I have also been toying with an idea that a good friend came up with that would eliminate front Rad set up but also work with Turbo models..
Furthermore, most of the cutting of the rear trunk shouldn't be necessary with a flipped intake on a 4cyl. You can retain the AC so I don't see any reason not.

the 6's I'm not as familiar with. Although it seems like it can be done with the EZ30...

Posted by: kg6dxn Oct 5 2011, 03:53 PM

I would love to see an engine bay radiator solution that works. I don't know of any cars setup that way that have remained that way. Not much air flow to work with. New Porsche's use a tripple radiator setup. Might be worth the effor to see if it can be used in a 914.

Posted by: IM101 Oct 5 2011, 04:12 PM

Posted by: ruby914 Oct 6 2011, 02:37 AM

You have some valid points and I may have very well lucked out on my donor car that had a side impact with a pole. I found it the day it got to the pick a part.
They roped it off and I had someone remove all I needed. Two days later I had all the parts at the house and I needed a 914 to put them in.
There are still 1000 ways to skin a cat. Options are good!

So, I may need some of your axles. No rush but how much and how soon?

Posted by: jimkelly Oct 6 2011, 04:44 AM

i have a set of porcharu's magic flanges that i never used for sale in case anyone needs a set now - see classifieds. does not work with ALL suby trans - must have same number of splines - i believe early legacy trans is ok and some others but not impreza.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=40733&st=680

ALSO A QUESTION ?????

would this thing with the spiral coil effect performance - the vaccum line nipple is broken off.


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Posted by: abnrdo Oct 6 2011, 08:12 PM

Ooooo Jim you peaked my interest. Is that a 240???
-Jim

Posted by: jimkelly Oct 6 2011, 08:15 PM

its a 1993 subaru impreza wagon fwd 1.8L

IM101 - what cost to convert to power steering ?? : )

i hear a wide body wide tired 914 with a smaller steering wheel can be a handful.

jim

Posted by: pktzygt Oct 7 2011, 07:53 AM

I like the front rad with the duct setup idea someone had done. I'll get to that eventually so I can get some functionality out of the front trunk. As far as I remember, everyone who has tried the mid-mounted radiator has failed, re-invented and failed again and gave up on the idea. If I am wrong, I'm sorry and let me what you did and I might try to do it the same someday.

I haven't flipped my intake manifold because I intend to put the A/C compressor back on someday. I couldn't figure out a way to keep the compressor, alternator and flip the manifold. The piping for the intake isn't even that complicated. I didn't have to cut into the rear trunk either. I have a 90 degree bend in my intake pipe and will use an air to water intercooler. I may even be able to keep my full size optima battery back there.

Posted by: Brett W Oct 7 2011, 08:23 AM

Look for pictures of the front trunk on a Carrera GT. They built some low profile ducting that directed the air out of the front trunk area and it helped created a space that was still useable. Having good ducting will allow you to run smaller exit areas.

Posted by: sawtooth Oct 7 2011, 09:51 AM

Nice job Ian, it's great to see some excitement in the suby conversion world again. It seemed to die off for a while. It really is an incredible way to go, especially if the suby trans is used. I've got 2500 miles on mine with no problems, and loads of smiles every time I drive. Let me know if I can be of any help.
Dean

Posted by: IM101 Oct 7 2011, 11:32 AM

Ruby 914, Wow man you did luck out, that a wrx made it into a pick andpull is incredible and that you got there first is insane. But yes I definitely agree with you optionsare good and there are a lot of them out there for this kind of project:

- engines, ej20, ej22, ej25… all of the 6’s

-Transmissions, 901, Subaru, 3.90, 4.11, 4.44, male flangesfemale flanges, stronger gears, better top speed

-NA or turbo, Td04,05,06, Vf28,30,40,44 Intercooling, air toair, air to water, Placement?

-engine management, OEM Cut harness, Piggy back, Standalone



And those are just a few of the options, literally there is1000 ways to skin this cat. I guess part of the reason for doing the kits is toboth enable and streamline the decision making process. A mount that will workwith any of the Subaru engines and both transmission choices, Axles that willwork with any of the subi 5 speed transmissions. On the other hand, an EMS that will be flexible,powerful and simple, a perfectly located and proven set up for intake/exhaust/cooling.

That’s what I want the end result to be. So that the kid incollege who just bought his 914 roller can buy the separate pieces and slowlybuild his dream car on a shoe string budget. Or the retired guy who wants his favorite 914, just with late modelpower and reliability; without losing half of his savings or months of waiting.Or anyone in between.

Call me cheesy or a dreamer or whatever, but that is my vision
Ian M.

Posted by: IM101 Oct 7 2011, 11:36 AM

Oh ya and the Axles... ive got several pm's about them so i may just put those on the fast track, i hope to have the axles and cradel done in a month or two.

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Oct 7 2011, 12:01 PM

Just wonder how the pricing on the axles will compare with the ones I have had done at http://www.dutchmanaxles.com/
Great guys to work with I've sent 4or5 other people to them. I guess everyone is happy.
Bob

Posted by: Andyrew Oct 7 2011, 12:11 PM

You heard wrong

Posted by: IM101 Oct 7 2011, 01:04 PM

Jim Kelly,
Well that is probably more of a question for legacy central with, it’s a smaller Subaru forum dealing with earlier legacys which I believe also had the same 1.8 as your impreza.
As to the power steering… ha, I had never thought of a conversion to power steering, I’ll look into it, although with everything on my plate I probably wouldn’t be offering one for some time, But keep the ideas coming 

Heck, with power steering and fwd auto trans you could conceivably make a 914 drivable by someone who is in a wheelchair… now that is a cool thought…

Pktzygt,
I like your set up, I was planning similar until I figured out the flip method, ill post a video when its all ready so anyone can do it if they would like.

You are probably right about the mid Rad, I just remember a thread with a working one, in any case the mid rad doesn’t really make a lot of sense…
I do like the late model Porsche triple radiator set up, properly ducted of course Brett W.. again that is something that is a ways off in development, at first I will probably go with a front mont rad with ducting that still allows use of the trunk.

Sawtooth,
Hey thanks Dean, your car is inspiration enough… but I’ll let you know if there is anything else.

Posted by: IM101 Oct 7 2011, 01:08 PM

Dutchman is great, I don’t know what your price is and the axles will probably end up being similar but I’m hoping to get them at the lowest price possible.

I was previously employed by http://www.metaltech4x4.com/, it is a small company specializing performance 4x4 gear for Toyota Land Cruisers. It was great working there and I miss it. I gained a lot of business knowledge and contacts and I will definitely be treating this business similarly

I will be sending rfq’s for axles to several venders (including Dutchman) going with the best quality for the lowest price, furthermore I will ordering in bulk so that I can have axles in stock and benefit from lower price per axle.

Posted by: JRust Oct 7 2011, 02:20 PM

My idea for the radiator in the engine bay is this. I want to use the 2 radiator setup from boxster. My plan is to do it on a flared car. Weather they were GT or Sheridan it should work. Just cut the inlet in the flare on each side for the radiator. Should get plenty of airflow & it would just exit out the wheel well. Should be efficent enough to cool the car. My worry is just cosmetically how to make it flow with the lines of the car. If I could draw for anything I would add an illustration. As it is I think most can figure what I have in mind. I think it would work great. I'm just not sure I can make it look great too

The nicest thing is you keep your front trunk. It also keeps your water lines short & close. It's just a matter of ducting the inlet so it not only looks good but provides enough flow. I have seen a few mods for some forced induction. Anyone have some pics of a 914 with an induction on the side? I've got one of Phillip Haun's car. My thoughs were leaning more towards the Sheridan flare. The GT flare is doable but it would be a tighter squeze as it is flared so close to the wheel/tire. Where the sheridan type is more gradual? Anyway if you have a pic of something along these lines please post them


Attached image(s)

Posted by: a914622 Oct 7 2011, 08:51 PM

Holy crap you have gear experiance?

You should figure out how to make a reversed ring and pinion for the subaru 5/6 speeds. Ther are tons of vanagons looking for a good 5 speed. I think the bugs and ghias are in the same boat.

just ia thought

jcl

Posted by: IanJ Oct 8 2011, 12:46 AM

JCl,
Check out
http://www.subarugears.com/

Posted by: IM101 Oct 8 2011, 11:48 AM

Yep exactly the website I was going to post. Figures an Aussie would beat me to it, it seems like you guys have all the cool Subaru stuff

Posted by: thenewwazoo Oct 10 2011, 04:16 PM

I'll probably build a thread for my EZ30 conversion soon while things are on hold for the race season. I'm basically sitting waiting for a cradle and some axles... and that's it. If someone can give me a price and a ship date before I build it myself (planned for December), they'll have my money.

Just sayin.

Posted by: DBCooper Oct 10 2011, 04:25 PM

You should be in luck, a EZ30 cradle and axles shouldn't be any different that an EJ. Don't know for sure but think my son has my old EJ20/901 cradle. In Modesto.

Be sure to post your build thread. I have a turbo four, am really interested in that six.

Posted by: thenewwazoo Oct 10 2011, 04:31 PM

Oh, yeah, I'm very much aware of the mounting issues, and I'm ready to bolt it together, I just don't know of anyone who will sell me a EJ/EZ+subaru trans mount. You bet your sweet buns that if I do it myself I'm going to have a stack of them. To everyone promising to make these, yes, that's a threat!

Posted by: IanJ Feb 10 2012, 09:02 PM

Hi,
I just wondered if anybody was further down the road with their kits?

I am now ready to start collecting bits for my conversion (looking to use subaru transmission)

Thanks,
Ian

Posted by: oldschool Feb 11 2012, 02:19 AM

Yes my Red car is getting ready for a Rotary....it will be video tape complete with the shop that will be doing the conversation I will post it on a new u tube channel...soon

Posted by: VOX Feb 11 2012, 02:39 AM

3k to rebuild an ej22? why rebuild it when the engine only costs a few hundred. just toss the engine if it doesnt work and pick up another one. then again maybe its cheaper here in ca.

Posted by: IM101 Feb 12 2012, 01:54 PM

Well I wish I could say I was further, but dang college has been getting in the way... stupid edumacation...

Anyway I am finally making headway again and ill update again soon.

Posted by: IM101 Feb 12 2012, 02:57 PM

I've been researching engine sources and come up with some good information. I agree the ej22 is probably not worth the rebuild. anyway here is some info on NA engine choices.

The following is a compilation of options and information for Subaru’s 2.5 Liter naturally aspirated engine. There are other NA engines available, such as the 2.2L or the 1.8 however in my opinion they have several disadvantages to the 2.5L, such as having less HP and single port exhaust heads and much less aftermarket support. One benefit that the ej22 has is it doesn’t have the head gasket failure that tend to show up with the ej25 at +150k, so it can be found, in a high mileage but usable form under 700$ pretty regularly.
The price is for a complete, shipped, assembled engine, longevity is the estimated mileage that the motor should last with regular maintenance, and of course the engine and warranty is self-explanatory.

(2.5L NA)
Opt # / Engine / Price Range / Longevity / Warranty
1 / High Mileage USDM / $500-1200 / 10-60k / NA
2 / JDM / $1200-2000 / 100-130k / 30-90 day
3 / Low Mileage USDM / $1800-2500 / 100-160k / 30 day
4 / Rebuilt USDM / $1900-2600 / 200+ / 12 month, 12,000mi


The high mileage motor (opt 1) is relatively easy to come by, the lower price range would be a luck find on local Craigslist. Higher price would be shipped from continental US and probably the easiest to just plug-in and drive. The ease comes with a cost though as it would be at the end of its life and probably end up needing a full rebuild or replaced soon.

The JDM motor (opt 2) is an interesting case. First off there are several years 99-05 that are obd2 capable and directly compatible to the USDM version. One option would be to gamble, buy a complete engine off ebay, hope for the best and most likely end up with a lemon. I would not do this myself and would not advise anyone of this course. You basically are paying twice as much on an engine that could be as bad as or worse than a High mileage USDM motor, with little recourse (pay shipping to return and a restocking fee and flush $700+). The alternative (listed opt 2) would be to buy an engine through a reputable importer where it is leak down/compression tested. The problem with this however is the several importers I have spoken with do not sell the wiring harness or ECU with the engine, thus USDM ancillary equipment would be required to get the engine complete and that will add expense.

The low mileage USDM motor would be the first, no guessing, reliable option. Like the JDM version they usually need to be sourced from a reputable shop. Also several ancillary parts will need to be sourced as the low mileage motors usually come a long block. However when this engine gets up into its higher mileage it can become susceptible to head gasket failure (due to bad factory HG pre 2005 NA 2.5L have been documented regularly blow a gasket after about 130k).

Finally there is the Rebuilt USDM option. Recently I found an engine builder with great prices on fully rebuilt (including heads) long blocks, normally a rebuilt long block would be $3000-4500$. However with this builder you can buy a rebuilt long block for what a used on would normally be. Furthermore it would have a tad more HP (due to .02 honing of the cylinders), updated HG that will not give out prematurely, and the option of customizing the build to whatever specs (upgraded cams, pistons, etc). This option would be the best in reliability and would have more power however it is also the most expensive and more difficult to get done, as a core motor would have to be sourced for exchange and ancillary parts.

In summation if you are looking to go the inexpensive/quick route I would go with the high mileage used set up (opt 1). It is quick and will get you running, if it decides to die after a few thousand miles at that point the JDM option becomes more feasible since you would have everything necessary (intake, ecu, sensors, etc.) to drop it in and go. On the other hand, If you are going to spend the money for a no headache set up, I would suggest going with the fully rebuilt engine (opt 4) as it only negligibly more expensive then the low mileage option with much greater benefits.

-Ian M.

Posted by: Jake Raby Feb 12 2012, 03:10 PM

How about the JR28?
:-)

Posted by: Zaney Feb 12 2012, 05:15 PM

That with an AWD Suby trans option for a Baja Bug and I am sold!
Congrats on the venture with Subiegears!

Posted by: a914622 Feb 12 2012, 09:07 PM

Your missing the Diesel option!

New engines are now like 4500.00 tranny 2k. I dont know if the ecu has been worked out yet?

I cant see a 2.2 being 3k to rebuild? I have torn down 3 with over 150,000 on them and most need an oil pump, piston rings and ehaust valves checked and lapped, and a set of acl bearings. I think with a subaru gasket kit you should be able it refresh/rebuild for under 1000.00?

Im picking up my 6speed for the eg33 swap next week. The new subarus mount like the 911 did with one mount in the front and 2 bolt on ears at the tranny. I may have to rethink my mounts so i probably not looking for the standard "KIT"

Boxxer.com has the diesel stuff.

jcl

Posted by: Zaney Feb 13 2012, 04:54 PM

www.boxeer.com is the site

Posted by: IM101 Mar 5 2012, 05:33 PM

Just an update, Things are finally coming together. Should have products to sell before the end of the month...
here's a teaser shot of some of the laser cutting being used in the in the project

Posted by: SchwarzHorse Mar 5 2012, 07:07 PM

Installing rice-burners into German thoroughbreds is making Dr. Porsche turn in his grave.

Posted by: a914622 Mar 5 2012, 07:12 PM

Oh you have never see inside that rice burner have you! Plus I thought the porsche engeneer team help with the design of the ej engines in the early 90s.



jcl

Posted by: Strudelwagon Mar 5 2012, 07:23 PM

Its still a BOXER motor.......Only Subaru was willing to run with it. Dr.Porsche I'm sure would approve

Posted by: partwerks Mar 5 2012, 10:13 PM

Are there going to be made, any improvements on the shift linkage that Renegade didn't think out very well??

Posted by: DBCooper Mar 6 2012, 08:57 AM

With the exception of concours weenies, who are special, it's not a question of providence, it's function. You haven't seen the inside of those motors. Makes the three main T4 motors look like something from the Model A era. They're EXTREMELY well designed, and I'm fairly certain that Dr. Porsche, who understood good engineering, would admire them as much as anyone else with a T4 background who's seen them.

Before anyone calls me on this I'm talking about three main bearings supporting the rods, not the small one on the nose that's really just for the crank pulley.

Posted by: RiqueMar Mar 6 2012, 09:03 AM

The 914 is anything but a 'German thoroughbred'..... More like, 'interesting breading'.

Posted by: jimkelly Mar 6 2012, 09:08 AM

looking forward to seeing you full offering.

for suby engines and suby trans conversions in a 914.

jim

Posted by: IM101 Mar 7 2012, 01:45 PM

Putting all the other pro subaru arguments/stats aside (there are a lot), the fact that Jake Raby has started developing the Subaru power-plant speaks volumes about its potential and place in the 914. He is after all basically the master of air cooled porsche/vw engines at this point.
-Ian

Posted by: Jake Raby Mar 7 2012, 07:31 PM

I have always appreciated the abilities of the Suby engine no matter what it is installed into.. Honestly if the cost of TIVs wasn't so high, cores so old and the quality of parts not going to last another 30 years I would have never diversified into the Suby.
After we developed the Type 4 as well as possible for any sane HP level and expense it was time for a change- because the following has changed and continues to. I know that the TIV will be completely dead before I close the door to my office for the final time so diversification into the M96/ M97 years ago and now the Suby was simply required.

As aircooled engine component quality continues to deteriorate its important that we lead the way with the next level of Suby engine development with a different scope of basic alterations not found with the typical "Suby Tuners". Merging classic hotrodding with a modern engine and a twist is what its all about and thats more than the "tuners" do. One good example of this is the creation of an engine that doesn't "sound" like a Suby. I hate the signature sound of a suby and so do most other air-cooled enthusiast and making the Suby sound like a well tuned -4 has been a fairly large undertaking as the differences go well beyond the exhaust system. Here is an example.



And this is the other key.. WOW what bazaar things I found when playing with these numbers!


I do not have any plans to provide Suby>>>>>914 components. My internal engine developments can be universally applied but I have decided not to focus any of my efforts on the 914 specifically.

Now those who want a Raby engine have their choice of classic air-cooled, or modern water-cooled and I am having more fun than ever making it happen.

Posted by: IM101 Mar 11 2012, 11:15 PM

Interesting, I personally like the exhaust note (when its stock or tastefully modified). Still, I cant wait to see what you come up with. I have a feeling that some suby(non vw/porsche conversion) guys will be interested in the results as well. It seems like the innovation could be a bit of a shock to the subaru world, to say the least.

Posted by: chuckc Mar 14 2012, 07:43 PM

Would love to see an example of this installed and the "massaging" that had to happen...Aluminum...no more rust...

Posted by: 904svo Mar 14 2012, 08:06 PM

Here's a picture of test fitting a Subaru WRX Turbo in my kit car.
\

Posted by: 76912E Apr 8 2012, 11:14 AM

What parts do I need?

I'm thinking of replacing the Type IV engine in my 912E with a N/A 2.5 Subie engine. The 912E was heavily modified by the PO (fiberglass RSR body conversion) and the engine or L-jet F.I. may need work. The transmission is a 923 5-speed (915 with a 901 input shaft to fit the Type IV). I don’t believe making a renegade out of it will decrease its value any more than it is now with the body kit.

I have a complete 2004 Legacy S/W with the 2.5 N/A, CA emission, Auto Trans, A/C. I am the original owner of the car. It has about 120K miles. It has had a CEL issue for the last 4 or 5 years, which is related to the O2 sensors or Cat converters. The car has 3 cats and I didn’t want to replace them. Emission inspection is easy to get around in my state so that was not a problem. The car runs fine and still gets high 20’s to low 30’s gas mileage. My teenage daughter has used the car for the last couple of years and there isn’t one body panel (except maybe the roof) that doesn’t have damage on it. The car has very little value.

So…what parts do I need from the Legacy for a Subie conversion? Will an auto transmission ECU work OK in the M/T Porsche? I’m guessing I will need a new flywheel, clutch, pressure plate for my 923 trans. I may not use the A/C from the Subie (the 912E doesn’t have it now).

Thanks, Fran

Posted by: IM101 Apr 8 2012, 11:34 AM

just reread and noticed this. Yes there will be an improvement in the shifting, im working on a cable shift slution for both the 901 and subaru set up. The shifter im trying to build will be pretty close to stock looking/placement... but its still a little ways off.



although im not too familiar with the tail-dragers, your set up should be pretty simple, just get an aluminum engine to trans adapter from KEP (i think they make a subaru>915 set up) and some kind of an engine mount system needs to be fabricated. That ECU should work fine aswell.

Posted by: effutuo101 Apr 8 2012, 12:21 PM

There is a Seattle based company (and I am sure others) that flips components in the transmission to run it backwards (tail drag) and the conversions I find in the VW bus space work very well.

Posted by: Jake Raby Apr 8 2012, 12:39 PM

It's time to unleash the beast... Welcome the Nikisil bored JR28 in 103mm.


We are also the sole US distributors for Subarugears reversed ring and pinion kits since you guys jumped on that topic.. Here are a couple of reversed trannys that are ready for their rear engine applications that we have in work now.

Posted by: 76912E Apr 8 2012, 01:02 PM

Since my car (1976, 912E, tail dragger---a 1 year replacement for the 914, before the 924 was released) uses the same engine as a 914 (Type 4, 2L, but with L-Jet instead of D-Jet FI) , the engines must rotate in the same direction. I'm thinking the 914 tranny was made to be a reverse rotation in comparison to the 901/915 in the 911 & 912 cars. Doesn't the 6 cyl 914 use a 901 transmission? Were the gears for this tranny flipped? I don't think I need to worry about reverse rotation, do I?

Thanks for the above replies. I was hoping I could expand this thread to other applications within the VW/Porsche family.

Fran

Posted by: nsyr Apr 8 2012, 04:00 PM

do you supply output flanges?

Posted by: Jake Raby Apr 8 2012, 04:08 PM

Any 4WD 5 speed without hi/lo selector will work.. 2WD and 6 speeds won't.

Posted by: IM101 Apr 9 2012, 12:21 AM

If you are using the transmission that is currently sitting in your 912 you should be fine and not have to worry about reverse rotation (I'm pretty sure). If you decide to run a Subaru transmission, then you will need to reverse the gearing...

-Ian

Posted by: precisionchassis Apr 9 2012, 10:16 PM

Jake, email me some information on the Nikisil cylinders. I've got an engine block sitting here I may send your way if it's not too increadibly expensive. I'm going to be building a monster motor for the Boxsteru soon. precisionchassis@gmail.com

Posted by: Jake Raby Apr 10 2012, 04:10 AM

Its expensive.. These are more expensive than any Nickies cylinders to date when compared on a "per cylinder" price point. The cylinders themselves are super detailed and the work required to fit them is also extensive.

Sounds like you need that core built up to a JR28T.. Thats something I'd give you a deal on for your bad ass ride. :-)

Posted by: precisionchassis Apr 10 2012, 10:57 AM

Well obviously it's expensive. Nice things aren't cheap. Send me some info, and maybe we can chat when you have some free time. I've got the PERFECT test vehicle for that engine.

Posted by: drdave427 Apr 10 2012, 07:09 PM

I'd like to know more about this -- I just acquired this same flat 6 Subaru engine with an automatic transmission plus a 5 speed. I am trying to find some direction on which way to go with this swap.

Posted by: IM101 Aug 6 2012, 08:30 PM

Finally coming to fruition!
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=191930&st=0&gopid=1720249&#entry1720249

Figured I'd revive this thread just in case anyone in here missed the other one.

Posted by: DBCooper Aug 7 2012, 06:18 AM

Wow, cool. That's going to open some doors. I still get messages from a lot of people, asking where to get things. Now I have a place to refer them.

Posted by: IM101 Aug 7 2012, 10:58 AM

Here is a screen shot of the new cable shift mount for the subaru 5mt that I'm almost done with. 1/4" and three bolts holding it to the housing... goodbye flex and slopy feel, hello crisp and solid shifting

Posted by: IM101 Aug 12 2012, 10:10 AM

Picture of the steel as delivered, everything is going well with the production run, I will get some more pictures at the end

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 12 2012, 10:20 AM

Posted by: no1uno Aug 18 2012, 10:52 AM

Looking forward to more information as this progresses...

It's tough not to get to excited, though. I'm dreaming of a reliable 10lbs/hp. How much chassis reinforcement would you suggest for this application? I'm beginning to strip and do rust repairs on a 1974.

Posted by: IM101 Aug 18 2012, 11:34 AM

Thanks for posting, I’m pretty excited myself, just heading into the shop for the day going to try to get these cradles done by the end of Tuesday!

To your question, that really depends on how much HP you want to push, in your case a good 220-230hp setup. Though I have less first hand knowledge on that topic, I would suggest something like an engman kit and some of tangerine racings gear, both great 914world vendors (links below). If you were going for more, like 280-300 that’s when cage work may come into play. You may want to do a search to get more info, or others can pitch in with their opinions.

http://engmanparts.com/innerlong.php
http://tangerineracing.com/chassis.htm
***http://tangerineracing.com/chassis.htm (in my opinion a must as I’m 3 for 3 in 914’s I’ve been under that all have some form of weakness in the ears)

Also let me know if you need help deciding on an engine in that hp range as it provides the widest selection of engine options. For example for turbo’d you have a jdm ej20g through several years or any of the usdm ej20t engines will be great as well. Another fun option is the NA 6cyl eg33 or the ez30d, though, set up properly, they will put you up in the 230-240 hp range.

Posted by: no1uno Aug 18 2012, 02:44 PM

Thanks for the advice. You're right. My goal would be 225-250hp. I would prefer not to have a full cage. The strengthening bits you suggest seem prudent. I think my preference would be a turbo 4. Am I correct to assume they are lighter than the 6 cyl engines even including the associated additional plumbing/turbo? In your experience, what is average price for usdm ej20t and trans?

Posted by: IM101 Aug 18 2012, 06:18 PM

Not necessarily... for the eg33 yes I would guess the 4 cyl is lighter. That's because the eg33 is basically an ej22 with two more cylinders grafted onto the end. As a result I bet it will end up weighing slightly more than the turbo 4.
However the ez30 is a whole other beast. Perrin and outfront have said the engine is .7" or 1.5" longer than the 4cyl, I don't know exactly where they measure but the gist is Subaru has fit 6cyl in near the same footprint of the 4cyl. Now its really hard to find engine weight numbers but I would bet that the ez30 is going to be about the same overall weight as a turbo 4. I should also mention that the ez30 is incredibly reliable. It has a timing chain instead of the normal belt and can easily live up over 200k and is a little cheaper than most 4's.



Engines will run $1500-2000 for a good used one. Trans will be $1200-1700. For really clean/low mileage options of both it can be up above 2k.

Let me know if you would like help sourcing an engine with my kit. I just recently found a great ez30d at $1250 for a customer and I don't charge broker fee.

Posted by: porsche913b_sp Aug 19 2012, 12:07 AM

Hi Ian do you have some good links so i can do some homework on which 6cyl to decide is there one that have better options (ie variable valve timing, DOHC, ... ) and easier to get running ( efi wise) than the other ? I too is interested in your
kit but i dont have an engine yet to pull the trigger. Your engine/trans source is local to you ? Would they ship to Los angeles. Thanks so much. Ted

Posted by: DBCooper Aug 19 2012, 07:49 AM

Probably the best place to start is the NASIOC forums. That's North American Subaru Imreza Owners ...something (http://www.nasioc.com). It's almost all four bangers, the motors that came in the Imprezas, but there's been quite a lot of EZ30 interest in their "conversions" forum, and it includes links to other places with more specific six cylinder engine info. The information at Outfrontmotorsports.com is general and correct, but is really dated. The company is active though, a leader and a great source for all kinds of engine swap things, especially important being aftermarket ECU's. I use one of theirs that came with an excellent base map already installed, and even a plug in engine harness that made everything pretty easy.

As a general suggestion about sixes I'd say stay with the EZ30 and EZ36 engines instead of the old SVX motors, which are now old, big, and heavy compared with the modern engines. I have a turbo four but am really really intrigued with the new sixes, in fact even bought a performance two in one out banana muffler to use on a six. Those engine's firing order is only two cylinders switched from the Porsche motors, so I suspect they'd even have that "porsche sound", especially if coming out of a Porsche car. The American motors are the EZ30D, whose heads have a single siamesedvexhaust outlet. The imported JDM is the EZ30R, distinguished by a black plastic intake manifold and a separate exhaust outlet for each cylinder. Stock horespower is similar for the two motors (I don't remember the numbers) and it's really easy to plumb the D motors exhaust, but you give up absolute power potential. The R sixes probably have more potential, but only if you intend to do serious engine modifications, your choice. Don't worry that much about drive by wire throttle bodies and valve and timing control on newer motors, that can all be either used with aftermarket ECU's or easily defeated substituting an earlier cable TB. For newer engines the stock ECU's are so complex you'll probably want to use an aftermarket ECU anyway.

The sixes are all naturally aspirated. For a n/a four banger stick with the SOHC 2.5's, the newer engines. The dual cam 2.5's (1995-1997 or something like that) are the engines with the head gasket problems, the SOHC engines pretty much solved that. If you get a good deal on a DOHC 2.5 it's easy to replace the head gaskets, and the Subaru valve grind gasket sets have upgraded metal head gaskets that also solve that problem. Easy to put in. The 2.5 engines have a lot more torque than the 2.0's, so are much better choices. My son has an lightweight autocross car with a "hybrid" motor, 2.2 heads on a 2.5 engine, STi pistons bringing compression back down to 9.6 with good flow from ported 2.2 heads. A good combination for a budget performance n/a engine. I prefer relatively stock motors, they have more than enough power for a street 914 and no problems with almost no maintenance. I'm kind of lazy, so it works for me.

One thing that will become apparent pretty quickly is how much the Subaru performance community resembles the old Small Block Chevy hot rod community. Lots of clueless kids, but at the core there are hard-core hot rod people, and I mean that as a Jim Hall/Carroll Shelby kind of compliment. Cool stuff available and and a lot going on. The fact that one of the big names in engine parts is Cosworth should tell you a lot about road race performance potential. You'll have fun.

Posted by: IM101 Aug 19 2012, 09:33 AM

DBCooper: You are right on, although I wouldn't rank a good eg33 below the EZ series of engines necessarily. if only for the sheer cost savings vs power it represents, I would wager it is the cheapest/highest stock HP subaru motor in existence. I also love the 2.2/2.5 Frankenstein motor you spoke about, great value/HP.

porsche913b_sp: Ill do you one better than links, below I've copied in an excerpt from an email i sent a customer on the different 6cyl options. My information has been gathered from sites like nasioc and RS25 verified by talking with subaru repair shops and tuners like perrin, outfront, and 42autosports.

FYI I'm compiling a massive amount of information like this for a page on my yet to be released website; dealing with engines, transmissions and other common questions/build options.


-NA 6 Option-

There are four feasible engines that can work in this category. I will try to shed a little light on each and rank them, from least to most recommended for use in the 914 swap. I should add that I’m less familiar with the upgradability of the 6’s than the 4’s. But in general it is much easier and cheaper to extract more power out of a turbo set up than an NA. So bear in mind that if you choose to go 6, its more of a dead end for upgrades (without a high relative cost), but then again they all have good power levels so you may not ever want more.

1. EZ30R, Found in the 2004–2009 Legacy 3.0R, Outback 3.0R and 2006–2008 Tribeca. This is basically a factory revamped version of the EZ30D. It has 245 chp stock and a wider upgrade path, generally turbo options, (people have taken it to 1100 hp). Also has VVL and AVCS (subaru’s variable valve timing) that helps to give a nice wide torque curve and 3 port exhaust heads. However this motor has a drawback, CANBUS Electronics. Basically what CANBUS electronics do is make the cars wiring a bit more simple and efficient for the OEM vehicle. The problem is it eliminates the option of a stock ecu swap, as it would require someone to take every piece of important electronic equipment and swap it into the new vehicle. The workaround is simple but expensive, an aftermarket ECU such as link or hydra at $2-3k will be necessary.
This option is my least recommended, this great engine comes at the expense of one of the biggest strengths of the Subaru conversion and that is the 914/Subaru relatively low cost to convert. The engine can be found for 2500-3000$ (plus $2-3k for ECU) used and provides great all around power mid and low rang hp/tq, basically the cost of the engine alone would be close to the cost of a complete conversion with a different engine choice (like the eg33 for example).

2. EZ36R, Found in the current generation of legacy, outback 2010+, and tribeca 2008+. This is the next step of the EZ engine series and basically a maxed out EZ30R. With 260 chp, and the same VVL and AVCS systems as the 30R, the engine is as good as it gets in regards to stock 6cly power. The drawback however is a big one; similar to the 30R it has CANBUS electronics. Also it’s got some insane geometry inside with asymmetrical connecting rods that make upgrades pretty much nonexistent. The big plus with this motor is the ability to run cheap 87 octane fuel and still get high HP numbers.
I would rank this engine tied with, or slightly ahead of, the EZ30R for the 914. The cost 3500-5000$ (+ $2-3k for ECU) is high but if you are going to spend the money to get the ECU why not get the one with higher HP and 87 fuel.

3. EG33, found in the Subaru SVX 1991-1997. This engine was Subaru’s second foray into the 6cly world, and a very interesting choice. It comes with 230 chp. Not nearly as technically advanced as the EZ series, and a bit larger but this motor does have several distinct advantages for the 914. First it has been around for a long time and the upgrade paths are more prevalent. Secondly, you will not have to deal with drive by wire and immobilized ecu issues. Finally, and most importantly this motor can be had for 500-1500 (though almost always north of 100k miles, as it’s up to 20 years old).
This is my second choice for the 914. It is a good, sturdy engine and ridiculously cheap for the power it provides but is pretty large and may require cutting of the rear trunk.

4. EZ30D, found in 2000-2003 outback and legacy’s. At roughly 212 chp from the factory, it seems to have the lowest hp number of the bunch. You can tell the difference of this engine by the aluminum intake and its single exhaust port heads (looks like a long slot or oval) as compared the later 6’s and the metal timing cover/size when compared to the eg33. It has two plus sides however, cheap (relative to the other EZ 6’s) and drive by cable, non CANBUS. You can pick this up for around $1-2k, and not have to deal with the drive by wire issues. Furthermore the 212hp mark is deceiving, both the intake and exhaust is extremely constricting on the donor car and from the swaps that have been done/ dyno’d (in the Subaru world) just upgrading to something less restrictive will put power up to 230-240 CHP.
I would rank this motor highest in comparison to the other options. Due to its modern design and timing chain (that does not need to be service for the life of the engine) it is smaller/lighter and more reliable than the eg33. On the other hand the ECU on the EZ30D substantially less expensive than the EZ30R and EZ36R. However to clarify it does not have the VVT or AVCS of the later EZ's.

Posted by: DBCooper Aug 19 2012, 02:27 PM

Yeah, the EG motors are cheap and the naturally aspirated EJ25 motors are under-appreciated. It all depends on what you need and what you want to do with them.

EMS systems shouldn't be that expensive, though. It's been a few years but I paid about $1000 for an EMS Stinger, which works great, and $300 for a harness that made it plug-and-play. It's simple but has everything you need and should run any of the Subaru motors. An aftermarket EMS removes any need to use the canbus harness, so you can run any of those more modern motors too. And if you ever decide to change/move up just change the map. Can't do that with an OEM ECU.

The EMS page at Outfront, http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/engine_management.htm has the Stinger and other alternatives, with price indications. And of course if you want an in-depth education about engines and fuel injection you can buy or build a Megasquirt for half that. I might be smart enough to do that (big maybe) but definitely don't have the patience for it.

Outfront also imports JDM motors and I think keep a stock of U.S. market motors for sale as well, so you could ask them about cost. Their Motor Matrix page might be helpful: http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/motor_matrix.htm It's four-cylinder centric, and some of the info is a bit outdated, so call them for current info or with questions. They've been really helpful whenever I've needed it.

And no, I don't work for Outfront or have any association with them except for having received that good service.

Posted by: IM101 Aug 19 2012, 03:58 PM

Outfront is a great outfit for sure, and have been kind enough to answer many of my questions without me even being a customer.

From what ive been told, I think the difference in price you are seeing is in the capability of the ECU. I was quoted around $2-3k from Surgline, Small Car, 42autosports for a system that can run the VVL and AVCS that the EZ-R engines should run. Yes you could get the motor to run great with a cheaper ecu, but you wouldn't be utilizing the parts that make the motor so cool. At that point your paying thousands more for what amounts to an EZ30D with 3 exhaust ports instead of 1... not really worth it in my opinion...
it may be possible to do with megasquirt but im sure rather difficult to incorperate the VVL and AVCS.

The point about the JDM engines is excellent for the EZ-R engines!!! I completely forgot about that, for most 4cly I think the necessity of aftermarket ecu cancels out the savings you would get by going jdm. But with the EZ-R engines you have to go with an Aftermarket ECU anyway, so why not save a $1k+ and go jdm. Excellent point!

furthermore I forgot that Outfront supplies jdm engines, the would be a great place to get it from because its not some random jdm importer, it would help to eliminate the crapshoot aspect of going JDM

Posted by: Zaney Aug 19 2012, 10:51 PM

Ian,
Here is a http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2093090&page=41 to post #1023 in a conversion on the Nasioc site for a Suby Powered Exo car.

Look at the shifter linkage he will offer for the mid engine car utilizing a MR2 shifter.

Here is his contact info on his http://www.speedinc.us/#!contact

Hope this helps you out in some way.

Also, search theBionicman on the same thread,here is a link to his http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJZiZfE_IoE&feature=youtu.be with his prototype.

Cheers,
Nate

Posted by: DBCooper Aug 20 2012, 09:00 AM

Ian, take a look at the Link G4 Storm (will control variable valves) and the G4 Extreme (valves plus electronic throttle, any motor). A couple of years ago they were about $1000 and $1500 respectively if you talked pretty to the importer. May be different today, but I can't imagine they've gone up too much. Depends on the Dollar, I guess, but it's at least worth checking current prices. Several of the Link importers (other than Outfront) also sell plug-and-play harnesses for all the engines, so you can totally eliminate the canbus crap.

I don't actually need any of this now, but saw an EZ36 motor with 22K miles on Craigslist locally for $1500. By the time I decided I might be interested it had been sold, but it got me started thinking again.

Posted by: IM101 Aug 20 2012, 10:28 PM

DB you sparked my curiosity, so i looked into it a little more. I couldn't find to much on the link G4 in relation to the EZ-R engines. I did make a few calls to some more tuners specifically I spoke with John the owner of Outfront today about the EZ30R/EZ36R ECU options. At this point, there are only two options that Outfront offer. first option is the one of the EMS ECUs at 1000-1500$. John said it would not run the full capabilities in the EZ-R heads. The alternative that will run the engines VVT and AVCS is the motec computer which will run a whopping 7-8K. He also said that he is working on a third option that will run the vvt/avcs for just north of $3k. we talked for a bit and i told him that i was having trouble finding an option that will run vvt/avcs for under $3k he said that sounded correct.

Also John said price on a JDM EZ30R is $3K for the complete engine, not quite as cheap as i had hoped but several hundred less than a comparable USDM engine.

On the ECU issues, basically what it comes down to is every tuner that I can find to have worked with a EZ-R quotes a $3-4K ECU to be able to run the VVT/AVCS. I'm sure if you had a lot of time and ingenuity it would be possible to do it for less, but from what I have been told by Perrin, Outfront, 42Autosports, and Small Car a plug and play option is not going to be under $3k.

And man $1500!!! shoulda jumped on that thats like finding a wrx engine for 500!

Posted by: DBCooper Aug 21 2012, 12:01 PM

Try FLI in Santa Rosa (http://finelineimports.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=563) I don't know them personally but have heard good things. I see on that link they list the Link Extreme for $1650, so you'll need to pretty talk them a bit to get to $1500. I'd hate to think people wouldn't pursue these later motors thinking it's not possible or uber expensive to adapt them. They're really nice engines.

Yeah, I know, such a deal, but it's OK, I'm happy with what I have. You know I DID get my WRX motor for $600, complete. Craig's list. Nothing wrong with the WRX, but I do like N/A horsepower and am intrigued by how well a 3.6 should work in a 914. You know that engine's rods are offset? Thrust on the rod on the power stroke is always on one side, so they changed the geometry so that side was aligned with the stroke offset and direction. Cool concept. Only problem, from what I've heard, is that the rods are sintered, making it harder for aftermarket replacements. Also I don't know enough about it to say, but the oil pump in that engine is down in the sump. If you need to section the pan (probably not, but still) that might be a problem. Anyway, if I had an engine I needed to fit it would one thing. But I don't.

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 21 2012, 06:58 PM

Question: If one wants the EZ30D what is the best route. Find a wreck, strip it and use the ECU that came with the car? Or, aftermarket ECU and the related headaches that a non-pro tuner will encounter and just for go the additional HP that VVT offers? Sorry for the beginner questions but I'm still at the "dumb ass stage" with the Suby stuff and and trying to formulate an opinion before the check book opens. I hope to see a couple of Suby 4's this weekend so I might change my mind in the next few days. Great thread! Thx for all the valuable input from everyone.

Posted by: porsche913b_sp Aug 21 2012, 08:30 PM

How would one know of getting the EZ30D would it be stamped on the block somewhere. And as far as the 5mt any AWD drive will do ?

Posted by: IM101 Aug 22 2012, 05:57 PM

Zaney:
Thanks for the link looks like an interesting set up. The design on the Subaru cable shift is pretty strait forward and I’m pretty set with it. On the other hand, if you would like to find examples of a 901 side shift cable set up I’d love to see pictures of that! My original designs ended up pricing out too expensive and I need to figure out an clean/sturdy design.

DBCooper:
I will check them out thanks for the heads up. Furthermore thank you for the valuable input/ trying to keep the options open for people and keeping me on my toes =). I completely understand where you are coming from these are really sweet engines and that would be great in a 914.
$600 for a complete wrx?!? Where are you finding these prices! Yes I understand the 3.6 has some really cool engineering to it. The asymmetrical rods will make aftermarket more difficult, but then again the 3.6 is sooo nice as it sits stock I don’t know why you would want to change it; 260hp on regular gas? A great wide hp/tq curve with avcs and vvt? The 6cyl sound? What’s not to love?

76-914:
you are just about right on with your description; find a wreck get the complete engine, wiring harness, ECU. And you should be set. I should have added for clarification (and have now) that the EZ30D does not have VVT or AVCS of the latter EZ series. This is great for the budget minded as the stock ECU will work fine and aftermarket options for tenability and a small increase in power are available for much less, 600-1500.
As compared to a turbo 4cyl they are going to be close to the same feeling engine. The 4 will usually have a more peaky torque curve, but there are so many more options for power and fine tuning it is much more versatile. Then again a 6 has about the same hp and sounds like a 6.

913b_sp:
Good question, as I stated in the write up a couple posts back the main visual difference from the latter EZ’s is going to be the aluminum (vs plastic) intake manifold and the single (oval/slot shaped) exhaust ports. I don’t know if there is any block stamping or the differences in the stamps. The vehicle it comes out of is the 2001-2003 Outback LL Bean edition.
The transmission should be chosen relative to the cars power levels. As a general rule of thumb less than 200hp, most any ’95 up Trans will do. For turbo stock hp 220-280 a turbo transmission would be required, 2002-2010. There are several different options in turbo transmissions and I have written a 5 page write up that will be going onto my website when it is all ready but to net it I would suggest any turbo trans from 2005-2007 as the best all around choice. Finally, for the +300HP range I would recomend looking at a strenghtend turbo transmission, using something like an RA gearset for low 300hp and an Albiens gearset for the higher outputs.

Basically if you stick to those numbers you should be pretty safe to treat the trans fairly aggressive. if you tryto make a lower leval transmission work with higher hp you will really have to be more careful with it. in general its all in how you drive.

furthermore care must be given to your CV choice, that is where you go for the weakest link that works. IE the stock 914 CV should be used up to the mid/high 200HP range before you consider going stronger. as i have said before the CV are the fuse of the drivetrain system. If you want your transmission to last go with the lighter fuse, if you go with stronger CV's in the wrong set up you could move the breaking point to something inside the tranny... not good...

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 22 2012, 08:02 PM

So hold my hand one more minute; I've got another question. I should be looking for a Outback or Legacy 2000-03 if I want the EZ30D? Any others. What if I find one with an automatic? Any hidden horrors in converting to 5 or 6 speed suby trans? tia. kent

Posted by: Lennies914 Aug 22 2012, 08:12 PM

The wiki pages provide a pretty good make, model, and engine application chart. It helped me when shopping for my donor car.

Posted by: IM101 Aug 22 2012, 10:19 PM

76-914: sorry Freudian slip, I was looking at some legacy outback engines earlier and the name stuck in my head (the mid 90s outbacks were "legacy outbacks." I fixed my mistake and added more to my previous post. But just to clarify:

The EZ30D is found in the 2001-2003 Outback LL Bean edition.

and yes the wiki is a pretty accurate source for general Subaru engine info

Posted by: IM101 Aug 28 2012, 03:42 PM

Half way through the production run pleased to report everything is going great! Here is a before pic from this morning

Posted by: IM101 Aug 29 2012, 01:00 AM

Well right at about 5ish i ran out of wire, didn't have a spare spool on hand but the good news is i got through enogh of the cradles to fill the pre-orders!

Ill update the member vendor thread with more specific info.

here is a partial after pic

Posted by: ruby914 Aug 29 2012, 01:17 AM

Kent,
The car we took a spin in the other day had a EJ205 from an AT impreza that hugged a tree.
I went into a Pic-a-part for a 914 air blower and it was the first car I saw. $1000 to the yard for the motor, ECU and complete harness. I gave another guy $100 to pull it all out.
That was a great deal. I had to go back for the gauge cluster. Fuel pump controller and some other sensors were missing.
Not wanting to cut up the Ruby914 I went looking for a 2nd car.
I also found a guy on craigslist that was parting out another WRX. I got more parts from him.
I removed the AT harness and everything that I didn't want from the main harness. I used Romraider to switch off codes from any thing I removed.

I think I got lucky but I would keep my eye out on Craigslist, Nasioc and Ebay for anyone parting out a car.
I am sure Ian can tell you, better than I, about what the best motor is.
My car is fast but I am not happy with the intercooler location and maybe it's not the turbo but the turbo lag that makes me feel it is not the best setup for complete control of the car.

always learning

Posted by: ruby914 Aug 29 2012, 01:20 AM

Looking good, you make me want to redo mine.

Posted by: jimkelly Aug 29 2012, 07:18 AM

very impressive !!!

Posted by: Lennies914 Aug 29 2012, 07:32 AM

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 29 2012, 08:11 AM

Got my attention. Nice work. I'm sure we'll be talking before years end. For those of you considering this: try to hitch a ride in one of these conversions. Very impressive. I rode in Mark's (ruby914) last Sat and it was a gas. Not sure if my smile was organic or a result of pulling G's.
Mark: I'm checking Craigslist every day. Thx again for the spin.

Posted by: jimkelly Aug 29 2012, 09:19 AM

my guess is that even with a lowly 1.8L sub engine, coupled with 5spd suby trans, the fun/reliability factor should be excellent, not to mention the gas mileage.

look forward to the shift linkage solution being developed.

Posted by: IM101 Aug 29 2012, 09:43 AM

Ha! All this excitement makes me want to finish my own car! Alas it is the main testing ground for all the building so probably wont done for a while yet... if anyone wants to drive to Portland, or just loan me one for a while that would be cool! =P
Well off to work got to get the shipping quotes and the invoices out today. Check my member vendor thread for the details if you like.

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 9 2012, 07:28 AM

some of ian's parts in action

** note - this is a turbo install which requires partial trunk floor modification.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=78501&hl=im painting&st=200



below is DBCooper's trunk mod.

Posted by: IM101 Sep 12 2012, 11:08 AM

Thanks Jim!
One thing to add, the Subaru transmission does require a bit of extra clearance as well not just the turbo.

Its pretty cool to see it in a another 914!

Posted by: IM101 Sep 12 2012, 11:09 AM

Guys! check out my new website! http://coldwater914.com. It is a work in progress but I'm very please with how it is turning out.

Posted by: Zaney Sep 12 2012, 01:48 PM

Great job!

Any news on the cable shifter components? I will probably look into that and a cradle. It will open up more options for me in the future... Speed is addictive!!!

Thanks!

Nate

Posted by: IM101 Sep 12 2012, 02:06 PM

working on it, the design is taking a bit longer as im low on cash and have to work with the custom cable numbers and get them right on paper before i order a set. should have a working prototype in the next couple of weeks.

Posted by: Zaney Oct 31 2012, 10:09 AM

Bump!
Any updates?

Posted by: Dasnowman Nov 2 2012, 03:54 AM

I really don't know how you plan on doing a 2.9L Suby engine the walls will be super paper thin or even if it's sleeved what about the water jets and the mating of the heads. The same power could be made with a bigger turbo or dual turbo like some of the older JDM models at lot less money.

Crawford biggest kit they do is a 2.7 and thats really pushing the wall thickness and Cosworth is at 2.6....Max I ever heard for the Suby stock block on the EJ257 is 101mm but most people max out at 99 or 99.5mm Both Darton and Crower do a max of 102mm for there sleeved engines so I really don't know how you are going to gain another 2.5mm over anyone else that's been building these engines for ever!

Am i missing something or are you forgetting these are water cooled and have/need the plumbing for it?

Posted by: charliew Nov 2 2012, 09:00 AM

Only a newbie would ask jake this stuff. Welcome to the 914 world, It does sonund like you are a nasioc guy though so double welcome. Study jakes plan a little more then you will see what he has. Jake might be the cosworth of T4's. He also is into porsche stuff and that means more expensive powerplants. I am more interested in the head sealing at 30 psi though with only six head studs. The bigger the more low end torque at 2500 rpms.

You also probably know that it will take a well built driveline to support 5-6-650 horsepower, and 500 ftlbs of torque as long as it's only two wheels the tranny can only cost 2500 MAYBE.

Posted by: IM101 Nov 5 2012, 02:02 PM

i have not had time to put into the cable shift, school and a full conversion project for a customer has been soaking up most of my time. Of course my last term of school cant be nice and easy, averaging 2-3 books read, per week.

Still plugging away at product development and growth though, I have just recently become a dealer at Small Car Performance, so if anyone wants wiring kits/instructions or shortened aluminum oil pans let me know!

Posted by: 76-914 Nov 5 2012, 09:54 PM

It's taking me longer than I'd anticipated to get a Suby, too!

Posted by: IM101 Nov 8 2012, 06:57 PM

Hey guys just an update on the axles: They ARE being made, it has taken longer due to some changes I made to the design but SAW assures me 3 weeks.

Thanks for hanging in there with me, especially Chris(my928s4) cause man you are getting close to being done!!!

Once i get this stocking order in I'm going to stay on top of the inventory level so they will hopefully always be in stock ready to ship.

Posted by: IM101 Nov 9 2012, 01:23 PM

Quick update, I am now a http://www.speedhut.com/ dealer. They provide a great product that makes it easy to get a useful and cool dash in you 914.

If you go to http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=78501&st=200 or http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=87326&hl=speedhut&st=240 buid threads, you can see how truly nice they are for our application.

Let me know if you want a set!

-Ian

Posted by: Porcharu Nov 10 2012, 12:31 AM

[/quote]
i have not had time to put into the cable shift, school and a full conversion project for a customer has been soaking up most of my time. Of course my last term of school cant be nice and easy, averaging 2-3 books read, per week.
[/quote]

Sounds like what I went through in my last quarter. Two English lit classes at once plus a ton of other crap I couldn't register for until I was a graduating senior - I had to quit my job for 3 months because all I did was read old books and write about them - 18+ hour days. Then it ended And I was done!!!!

Posted by: IM101 Jan 2 2013, 07:30 PM

Axles are finally done. I am really disappointed with SAW on this one. it took waaay to long. I am looking into other vendors to avoid this problem in the future. but thankfully The axles should be on my doorstep tomorrow and i will start shipping them out.
-Ian

Posted by: thenewwazoo Jan 2 2013, 09:07 PM

Good to hear. What's the process for getting a box of my very own?

Posted by: IM101 Jan 3 2013, 11:35 AM

Just send me a PM or email me and we can get an order started =)

Posted by: bandjoey Jan 4 2013, 11:48 AM

What's a good website for a primer on Suby motors? I see a 4 cyl 200hp Suby motor in the new Scion FRS. Is this a new motor or ???

I'd love to see a complete build thread from motor on a pallet to installed in a 914. I'd like more muscle in my car but not up to doing one yet.

Wish u great success!

Posted by: charliew Jan 4 2013, 05:51 PM

Bill my son and I have used nasioc since about 2004 for most of the info we have used.

Posted by: IM101 Jan 5 2013, 02:02 AM

the Axles are finally in guys! will be shipping out the orders Monday!

Posted by: IM101 Jan 5 2013, 02:08 AM

I agree Nasioc is a great resource check it out, if you dig long enough you can pretty much find an answer to anything there.

Otherwise Wiki pages has a pretty good write up of Subaru engines through the years.

Furthermore IF you want some more spacific 914/subaru related information, there are a lot of guys on here with great threads and willing to talk shop.

Finally, i have some good info compiled (that i reeeaallly need to get up on my site!!! dang 24hr a day time limit ) regarding engine/transmission choices etc. a lot of it is posted throught this thread, but feel free to pm me, we can talk.

-Ian

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 5 2013, 09:15 PM

Don't forget http://www.rs25.com as well (provided by Ian BTW). More tolerant of newbie questions like the ones I have had lately.

Definitely go through some of the builds in the Wiki...there are several pallet-to-completion builds.

Can't wait to get my axles and stuff Ian! Thanks for your advice on the project.

Posted by: charliew Jan 6 2013, 08:50 AM

What I like about world threads is the close association with vw's. I also have some vw's that would be really great candidates for a suby, including a speedster kit and a 64 bug (actually a 58 with a 64 front clip) that has been a pickup since 68.

Posted by: IM101 Jan 10 2013, 02:01 PM

Commandeered the fiancées apartment for a day to get a bunch of shipping done, after the long wait for the axles I’m almost sold out of the first batch…


Attached image(s)

Posted by: mepstein Jan 10 2013, 02:17 PM

Way to go Ian.

Posted by: wingnut86 Jan 10 2013, 03:18 PM

That's not Ian.

The real Ian's hair turned white overnight dealing with his new vendors and suppliers:D

Maybe a bit of Honors vector calculus to boot

Posted by: thenewwazoo Jan 18 2013, 11:19 AM

Got the first axle test-fitted with my cradle (not Ian's design). Everything fits with no binding. Good times.

Ian, your axles don't have the lip needed for the Porsche CV spring washer. Is this a problem?


Attached image(s)

Posted by: IM101 Jan 18 2013, 11:51 AM

Yep the missing slot (as you can see from the picture) is intentionally done by Sway-A-Way, its there "floating" design that allows for better torque transfer.

Got the image from Eric Shes thread on 5 lug conversion (which also shows how to put the Porsche CV together BTW)

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=91963

Posted by: thenewwazoo Jan 18 2013, 11:53 AM

Right-o! So I just skip using the conical washer altogether, then. Thanks!

Posted by: IM101 Jan 28 2013, 05:28 PM

I am gearing up for another production run on the cradles, as i am sold out!

Also I am finally getting to the cable shift set up for the subaru 5mt. it is part of a customers build its a "got to" get done at this point. I will let update with some progress.

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 28 2013, 06:25 PM

Pencil me in for a cable setup...

Posted by: IM101 May 16 2013, 10:12 PM

Hello everyone, First off apologies for going in silent running mode for a while.  With an upcoming wedding and honeymoon, graduation/class, website rebuild, part time photographer job, a full ez30d build, and I’m sure I’m forgetting one of the 100 other projects on the todo list, overwhelmed is a good description of my life as of late.  To complicate things I am losing the shop that I have been working at compliments of JRust (thanks again btw, it’s been a real blessing).  I’m trying to take it in stride and viewing the loss of space as an opportunity to get organized and slimmed down for the big move to Boise ID this summer.  My fiancé was accepted to several grad programs (math) and we decided Boise was a good fit.

  This will mean both immediate and long-term changes for Coldwater.  Immediately I will be trying to liquidate as much of my inventory/parts horde as possible, not only to make it easier to move but also, I need the cash for our Europe honeymoon (going to try and make it to the nurenbergring!!! As well as Greece Italy and Spain) as well as getting funding built up for getting the shop reestablished and running in Boise.  I have a production run of cradles to sell (of which several of you have dibs on, and I will be getting in touch with you shortly), axles, a couple of spools, transmissions, a complete ej22t, and more that I will be getting rid of (details in my member vendor thread).

  Many of you have been asking the status on the cable shifter for the Subaru trans… I have still not been able to develop this further unfortunately but I know how much you guys need this part so I’m really going to try too get the production going and be able to ship a run out before the wedding in July.  I don’t need a full shop for that anyway…
Post wedding, things will have to change a little; while the wife will full tuition and a teaching assistantship I will be taking the lead and landing a good career building position in Boise.  What exactly this means for Coldwater I don’t know, I’m hoping that I will have some extra income/freetime to invest in the company, but who knows… I know more than a few of my customers have been dealing with job loss and economic difficulties.  Whatever the case my wife and our future is top priority and Coldwater will most likely have to take a secondary or tertiary position.

  With all this in mind I’d Like to take a moment to say thanks to all of my customers and the 914 community for allowing me to take Coldwater this far.  I sincerely hope/believe that I will be able to continue to be serve and be a part of this community after the move (hell I better be, by then I will have my own 914 finally completed!!)
Best Regards
-Ian Megale
Cold Water Conversion LLC

Posted by: effutuo101 May 16 2013, 10:30 PM

PM's sent.

Posted by: IM101 May 20 2013, 01:24 PM

the list is up in my http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=191930. Help me move and afford a honeymoon!

Thanks guys,
Ian

Posted by: badmiata May 28 2013, 01:09 PM

Ian, I dont have a 914 (yet) I do have a WRX though. I have taken a ride in DBCoopers car and it was eye opening to say the least. If I were to do this I would like to use a 2.5 with wrx & trans. Then use the stock ecu in the hopes of using a Cobb accessport for any tuning. They have a lot of useful parts...such as a lunch control...umm. In doing this I want the drive by wire as well. I would NEED AC! I have seen those under dash units will they hook up to the wrx compressor? Bob Loblaw! Oh yea question...When using an stock ecu do you need to use two keys? The 2.5 wrx's all have immoblizers Just dont want to be on a 5 yr plain would like to get an idea on paper first. P.S. I was also thinking of methanol injection and keeping the intercooler were it is. I really liked the air to water idea but I need ac too. Does anyone know if the newer engines with the plastic intakes would run cooler temps for the intercooler? I know this is a lot but it gives your thread a bump too.

Posted by: IM101 Jun 6 2013, 07:48 PM

well if you want to go with the 2.5 the issue of DBW and chipped keys come up, however the easiest way to deal with both of those issues is by swapping the entire steering column/cluster from the WRX.
look up ruby914's build thread, basically exactly what you are looking for.

let me know if you have any other questions!

-Ian

Posted by: DBCooper Jun 7 2013, 05:54 AM

Switching the steering column is the easiest? Another alternative is to use an aftermarket ECU. It's more expensive, but pretty sure it's easier than switching columns, modifying the harness, etc.

Posted by: 904svo Jun 7 2013, 07:07 AM

On my conversion I keep the stock steering wheel and gauge cluster. I've posted the wiring conversion on how to do it.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=199291&hl=

Posted by: DBCooper Jun 7 2013, 07:26 AM

Yeah, but you're a lot smarter than the rest of us. Me, anyway.

Posted by: IM101 Jun 7 2013, 08:52 AM

Ah yes that is true... the way he phrased the question seemed like he had his ecu picked out (Cobb AP), but your right it is worth mentioning. A standalone ecu is definitely a possibility.

-Ian

Posted by: IM101 Jun 7 2013, 07:21 PM

Hey guys, inventory is getting lower, head over to my member vender thread for exact levels.

Posted by: IM101 Jul 12 2013, 12:35 AM

I Get married tomorrow and will be gone on honeymoon/moving probably until mid august. feel free to email me with any questions, I will respond when I'm back stateside and settled. Thanks for all the support! See you on the other side!

Posted by: Bob L. Jul 12 2013, 08:38 AM

Congrats on the wedding. Best of luck.

Posted by: effutuo101 Jul 12 2013, 09:05 PM

Congrats!

Posted by: IM101 Sep 1 2013, 09:48 AM

Hey guys,

Sorry I have been out of touch lately, the wedding, honeymoon, and move has been a (predictably) a whirlwind. We have been in Boise for a couple of weeks now but are still waiting to move into our apartment on September 10th. Right now my top priority is getting settled in and getting a job to get some money coming in before we have to start paying rent. As much fun as Coldwater is it takes time, money, and a shop space to get back going again all of which I do not have at the moment. It’s also tough because as much as I love working on Coldwater it is still in its infancy and it eats what little profits in growth (new products and such) and I need something that I can give the support my new wife needs to get through grad school! Once I do get started back up that may mean price increases or I don't know what... guess we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

Moving forward, I landed real-estate photography gig just to get us by for a bit and enable the search for a higher paying position to continue. I’m hoping that I will be able to find something that gives me enough capital to find a small shop and get started again. If anyone has any leads in Boise please feel free to PM me!

Otherwise for those interested in products, if there is enough interest I could possibly ***possibly, take a long weekend scoot back to Oregon and get a small production run busted out. I’d like to compile a list of who is serious and what they are ready to buy, if that is you please send an email to ian@coldwater914.com with the subject line of “parts interest list,” and I’ll see what I can do.

-Ian

Posted by: Dr Evil Sep 1 2013, 12:03 PM

Congrats!

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 1 2013, 01:37 PM

Ditto and PM sent

Posted by: CptTripps Sep 2 2013, 08:50 AM

Email sent...Congrats!

Posted by: sawtooth Sep 3 2013, 03:32 PM

Congrats Ian, cool you guys are in Boise now. Sent you a PM.

Posted by: skeates Sep 3 2013, 08:35 PM

Congrats! E-mail sent.

Posted by: IM101 Sep 6 2013, 10:17 AM

I believe I have responded to all emails and PM's please shoot me another (email preferred) if you did not get anything from me.


Thanks for the congrats guys =)

Posted by: IM101 Sep 6 2013, 11:19 AM

picture from the honeymoon


Haha guys, can you really blame me for being out of the loop latley? I have to keep the new wife happy! Managed to get a ring on her, but as you could imagine there is no shortage of suitors lining up... Have to keep her supported and happy

On a serious note though, I understand that there are several guys out there in the midst of builds who started planning on me being able to provide the parts to finish. Just to reassure everyone, I am not going to disappear and will be doing whatever I need to to keep the subaru conversion a viable option for people who would have otherwise not been able to do it; whether its getting the doors back open myself or subcontracting the work out, or selling the business to someone I trust can and will do better.

Thanks to those who are ready to buy and have emailed me it makes it much easier for me when I have numbers to work with. Keep it coming!

Regards
Ian

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 7 2013, 06:39 AM

lightning McQueen would say "ka-chow"

the trick for the next 50 years is to hang on to as much of that magic as possible for as long as possible. cause one day, she'll be complaining that the kitchen towel is not where she likes it or left it. I can give you several hundred other examples but this one should suffice : )

anyway, what inventory do you have left. last update was...

Cradles, 3 left
Trans hangers, 1 left
Back plates, 0 left
Spline Coupler, 1 left
Hybrid Axles, 5 left
Urethane Mounts, 15 left

Posted by: DBCooper Sep 7 2013, 07:15 AM

Looks like you've done even better with the wife than you have with conversion parts, so keep up ALL the good work! Thanks Ian.

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 7 2013, 02:41 PM

Yeppers, he's back. Got a few emails splaining things and he's checking his inventory this week for my part.

Posted by: IM101 Sep 19 2013, 01:07 PM

hey guys quick update, Landed a job! Which is great, now i can start saving and budgeting for a shop space to get things back up and running! However my responses are going to be more evening and weekend oriented now.

-Ian

Posted by: IM101 Oct 13 2013, 02:27 PM

Well I had a job, and then it went sideways... oh well that's life... I think i may have found a temporary shop solution and will hopefully be able to start on some smaller projects. Will keep everyone updated.

Posted by: IM101 Nov 26 2013, 04:21 PM

OK guys, I'm taking a trip back to Oregon to move the rest of the shop over and get it set up enough to start production again. Cradle systems are probably up first, but also hope to have a production run of cable shifters out before Christmas. looking forward to some welding

Posted by: JRust Nov 26 2013, 05:48 PM

Cool! About time you got off your ass & got to work . Seriously though good to hear your getting back to it. Did John get ahold of you there? Been talking to him about a roller. He needs some cage work done. Figured if you are bringing your bender out. Be right up your alley

Posted by: IM101 Dec 9 2013, 02:01 PM

Yep he got ahold of me kind enough to let me set up in his garage for the time being. Kinda like the set up I had back at your place, except 5 minutes not 1.5 hours away!

And on that note, I'm officially back in business. planing on a production run on monday/tuesday of net week; shipping cradles on friday! Just in time for christmas!

Posted by: JRust Dec 9 2013, 02:30 PM

Excellent! Might just need you to make me a cradle for an EZ30

Posted by: IM101 Dec 9 2013, 02:35 PM

lol... just never enough projects for you...

Posted by: rdauenhauer Dec 27 2013, 10:08 AM

Soooo.. been thinking about doing my own conversion & decided for simplicity sake start with a NA conversion.
Question is what motor?
Seems to be a bunch of relatively cheap Legacy & Impreza /4's about.
But what is a better choice the SOHC 2.2 or the DOHC 2.5?

Posted by: IM101 Dec 27 2013, 11:42 AM

Cool! Well if you have not already, check out my website for a write up of different engine choices. Personally I would stick with SOHC, just for the ease of timing belt swapping cost of upgrading to some delta cams in the future ($30ish per cam).

NA engine options: http://www.coldwater914.com/engines-options-engines-less-than-200hp/

Posted by: nsyr Dec 28 2013, 10:52 AM

Do the trailing arms need to be removed to get the axles in place?

Posted by: IM101 Dec 28 2013, 11:05 AM

Nope, not when you get the correct DOJ. If you get the suggested 02-04 wrx DOJ, you just tap the pin out on the trans side, and slide the DOJ off the stub.

On the other hand, if you use a later transmission (2005+) and decide to keep the "all in one," style DOJ, you will have to drop the trailing arms to remove the axles.

*** Again, the only DOJ's I recommend are the 02-04 wrx, they work perfectly, are quite sturdy, and are pretty easy to pick up used from nasioc.com or rs25.com. ***

Posted by: IM101 Oct 16 2014, 01:23 PM

Have been getting a few emails about parts as of late. I am still selling them, please email (preferred over PM) about what you want and I will see if I can get it out. Just bare with me as the day job has been keeping me quite busy.

Best,
Ian

Posted by: madmax914 Oct 31 2014, 10:15 AM

Ian,
Still plan on doing my Subaru conversion. Just finishing up my 911 suspension upgrades. Probably won't buy the cradle and conversion parts from you until late this spring. What is the turn around that time of year?

Cheers!

Brent

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Oct 31 2014, 10:45 AM

Anybody looking to do a Subaru conversion should look at this http://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/cto/4718614901.html . This is a great buy. There is more in parts than the asking price. I've looked at the car and its just a couple of days away from being finished. I wished that I had the time to help him with it.I can answer any questions about the car I have looked at it.

Bob

Posted by: DBCooper Oct 31 2014, 03:57 PM

Wow. THAT'S the way to do a project, buy one where all the hard/expensive/crappy stuff has already been done. I'd get it just because it's a deal, but wrong coast for me.

Posted by: charliew Nov 7 2014, 10:28 AM

I agree, the 200hp is optimistic but the torque curve will be nice. I would want to see the motor repair sheet. It must have had a blown head gasket or why pull the heads? A blown head gasket usually means over heated at least once. It might be a great motor. Also ask if the tranny has been worked on or not. At any rate the 5 lug already installed along with the motor/tranny and hopefully the wiring good a lot of challenges have already been met. Maybe just all the details need doing. If the square tubing is sound only the id/flow rate ( and it sounds like the radiator is not installed?) would be my question. Also if it has set with just water in the cooling system. The rust free part in the east is also a question in my mind.

check the prices closely I think they are a little high from my experience. maybe retail prices?

Posted by: Zaney Nov 7 2014, 06:10 PM

I think that price is a steal!! I will be close to that ballpark with even more suspension goodies in my car!

Posted by: 76-914 Nov 7 2014, 06:57 PM

Another damned good deal that kept winking at me was Novak's "Dirty Penny".

Posted by: IM101 Jan 26 2015, 05:51 PM

Hi all,

I have been getting inundated with requests for information and orders but, as many of you may have noticed; I have been slow to respond, fill orders, and get stuff shipped out.

My sincerest apologies for that.

I truly wish I could devote more time to Cold Water and my customers but am not able to at this point. When I started Cold Water, I had no wife, very little rent, a part time internship (which I quit when CW got big enough) and few important responsibilities. However now, as I’m sure many of you are familiar with, I have a wife, a corporate job, bills, and all the other responsibilities that come along with maintaining life.

However, this is not the part where I tell you I’m quitting… There are just too many guys trying to build up a dream car with CW parts.

I have a plan…

1) Consolidate/Relocate the shop
I am finally in a rental that has a garage; starting this weekend I’m going to be moving the shop from its disparate locations (a friends garage, Storage, spare room) and setting up at my place.

2) Inventory
With the shop in so many places it’s hard to keep track of inventory levels, which has become a major issue lately. To remedy this I will be implementing some sort of inventory management once I get the shop relocated to the garage. This will allow me to respond quickly to questions about parts being in stock or not and hopefully have a positive impact on turnaround times

3) Get Help
Whether it’s a partner who can help share the load, or a part time contract worker who will help with shipping and maybe some simple fabrication; I have come to realize that I can’t do this on my own. I can’t afford much but will hopefully be able to work something out.

4) Get Even
While I am not in a position to be efficient at the moment, that doesn’t mean I’m going to hang customers out to dry. Therefore during this entire process I will be making sure to help those customers who need me most. The ones who have inquired about ordering or have already ordered will be taken care of, I’ll ship what parts I have and make sure to update everyone on timelines and inventory levels.

5) Move forward
With the shop organized, inventory levels transparent/controlled, and help I’m hoping that I can be much more effective at supplying and assisting my customers.


If any of you have more ideas, feedback, or know of good inventory management systems please speak up. Also If you know of someone in the Boise, ID area how has some shop experience, or a son who is willing to learn send them my way.

Best,
Ian

Posted by: mepstein Jan 26 2015, 06:57 PM

I met the new owner of dirty penny. He's outside philly pa. Nice guy.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 26 2015, 07:01 PM

Ian - you have done an amazing job with this venture. Keep doing what your doing. Your truly an asset to the 914 community and an all around nice guy! Thank you.