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Posted by: Harpo Oct 16 2011, 08:21 AM

Good morning everyone,

My mechanic at work gave me this information

The April/May 2007 edition of Machinint's Workshop did a study on Penetrating oil.

Penetrating Oil Chart

Penetrating Oil Type Average load Cost per fluid ounce
None 516 Lbs $0.00
WD-40 238 Lbs $0.25
PB Blaster 214 Lbs $0.35
Liquid Wrench 127 Lbs $0.21
Kano Kroil 106 Lbs $0.75
ATF-Acetone mix 53 Lbs $0.10

The ATF-Acetone mix was a 50/50 mix (1 to 1 ratio)

Posted by: Harpo Oct 16 2011, 08:22 AM

Sorry about the formatting I could not seek to fix it nor could I attach the excell file

David

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Oct 16 2011, 10:20 AM

I'v posted this up in the past. It works really well, but you have to keep the ATF/Acetone mixed up as it will seperate on its own over time.

Zach

Posted by: Andyrew Oct 16 2011, 12:12 PM

Hmmmmm. This is good to know!

Posted by: trojanhorsepower Oct 16 2011, 06:37 PM

OK I 'll be the dummy. I don't understand. What does this mean? What is Average Load Cost per fluid ounce? How does this relate to which one to use for what job?

Thanks

Posted by: dlee6204 Oct 16 2011, 06:49 PM

The average load is how much force was needed to break free the rusty bolts.

Posted by: patssle Oct 16 2011, 06:50 PM

I can't believe it gets better than PB Blaster. I had to take the cat off my 911 exhaust and it was impossible with the nuts/bolts dry. A spray of PB and bam, those things came off easily.

Posted by: dlkawashima Oct 16 2011, 07:03 PM

"The April 2007 "Machinist's Workshop" magazine comparison
arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with
the control being the torque required to remove the nut from
a scientifically rusted environment"



*The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50% acetone -
50% automatic transmission fluid.

**Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product
in this one particular test.

***Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for
about 20% of the price.

Posted by: swl Oct 16 2011, 08:40 PM

What really strikes me with this is that after year's of reading about the virtues of pb blaster the experiment shows that it is barely better than WD 40 which is commonly poo-poo'd as 'not a penetrating oil'. The quote says it was a subjective test but it looks pretty objective to me.

Think I'll stay way from the acetone. That stuff scares me. http://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/00140.htm

Posted by: brp986s Oct 16 2011, 09:59 PM

Bah. Acetone is relatively safe as organic solvents go. Reading an MSDS will make just about anything seem like a case of Andromeda Strain. People who have diabetes that is out of control will have acetone on their breath that is created by their own bodies. But it is not the acetone that they should be worried about.

I know of a pharma co. that sells/sold a nail polish remover made of methylene chloride that stated on the bottle was "non-toxic". If you want the heebeegeebees check out the msds of that crap. And it may still exist in paint strippers.

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Oct 17 2011, 12:09 AM

I had a friend who when working on his chevy van, had the transmission fall on his arm. Partially crushed his arm and ripped open the skin and muscle tissue. When he asked the surgeon what he used to clean off the oil and grease from his exposed flesh he said, "acetone". My friend asked, "you mean regular acetone acetone?" The doc said "yep". (Yikes)

Posted by: dlestep Oct 17 2011, 06:55 AM

I watched some guy behind a manufacturing plant across from where I used to work, remove his shirt and
lift a 5 gallon can of MEK and pour it over his head and wash his hair,
arms and chest to remove carbon-kevlar dust; SIC; and semi-cured polyurea. That guy is nuts !
I showed him the MSDS cut sheets for those items and he didn't care.

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Oct 17 2011, 08:44 AM

A few years from now we will all be paying for his cancer and/or EOL care.


Zach

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 17 2011, 09:23 AM

Informative. Thanks.

Posted by: r_towle Oct 17 2011, 09:31 AM

I recall that Iodine is one of the main ingredients that wicks into the threads.
I heard at one point that using Iodine straight from the bottle did a really great job, it wicks up...

Also, Brake fluid is a fantastic one to use.

Rich

Posted by: 9146986 Oct 17 2011, 10:42 AM

I got turned on to the Kroil a couple years ago, and I do like it better than PB. Nice to know about a low cost alternative, especially since I've got those on hand.

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Oct 17 2011, 11:05 AM

One thing to be careful of if you try the Acetone/ATF or Brakefluid.

They EAT paint. Acetone is often sold as a paint solvent.

Acetone works well, will degrease anything, and can be used to clear water from gas tanks after cleaning them. But you do have to be careful with it.

Posted by: URY914 Oct 17 2011, 11:46 AM

Acetone is the only thing that clean up fiberglass resin. But keep the cap on the can or it will evaporate before you know it.

Posted by: RFoulds Oct 17 2011, 12:07 PM

I switch back on forth between PB Blaster and Liquid Wrench. Always keep them both on hand. If one doesnt seem to be doing the job, the other does.

Posted by: tdgray Oct 17 2011, 01:44 PM

Are Kano Kroil and Aero Kroil the same thing?

Love the Kroil... been using it for years.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Oct 17 2011, 03:12 PM

I use Gibbs Brand. Good stuff. Wurth Rost Off works well, too.

The Cap'n

Posted by: underthetire Oct 17 2011, 03:42 PM

Yup. Kano is the manufacturer. I even have some of the instrument oil from them, works great.

Posted by: Cevan Oct 17 2011, 04:53 PM

I'd like to see how this test was performed before I give it any weight. How did they calculate that the bolts were equally rusty?

Posted by: pcar916 Oct 17 2011, 05:28 PM

I like details too but for something this simple just mix some up and try it so it leaps out of the theoretical realm. I keep it in a Nalgene container for the homemade stuff with a small capped pull-out hose. If you don't have a good delivery method it doesn't make any sense to mix it up. I've used this mixture for years but still have one can of Kroil around because spraying is occasionally handy.

Kroil was all I used for many years, but since I always have ATF and acetone around, anything that works well and I don't have to go to the store for gets my vote!

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Oct 17 2011, 08:29 PM

If you put the mix in a preval sprayer you could spray it too.

Posted by: pcar916 Oct 17 2011, 10:18 PM

I have one of those I sprayed my 911 dash with seven years ago and haven't used since. Good idea.

Posted by: DBCooper Oct 18 2011, 07:20 AM

There are ANSI tests for weathering, basically a salt spray in a chamber over an extended period, easy enough to get uniform corrosion.

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Oct 18 2011, 08:00 AM

I read the article a few years back and there was normalization done.

The bolts were all that same size and type. They may have been grouped as well, but I can't recall off hand. I think that each oil undid 20 bolts, but its been a while and 20 seems like a high number.

I read the article here on World in full when it was first posted in 2007 or 2008. Its floating around on our servers somewhere.

Zach