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Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 16 2011, 04:31 PM

Some pics of our most recent project (try to not let the background confuse you):

Posted by: r_towle Nov 16 2011, 04:38 PM

ok, I will bite...
How much for that setup????

Rich

Posted by: Scarlet75 Nov 16 2011, 05:06 PM

Posted by: eric9144 Nov 16 2011, 05:08 PM

More please!

Posted by: bigkensteele Nov 16 2011, 05:28 PM

How in the world would you fit that in a 914 without cutting out the firewall?

Posted by: Valy Nov 16 2011, 05:33 PM

So you plan on using hot air to cool the motor

Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 16 2011, 05:45 PM

I'm confident that no cutting or hammering of sheetmetal will be required.

Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 16 2011, 05:51 PM

The turbocharger is the only part of the system which is above the tin.
It will need to be well insulated for sure.

We're not doing the installation, just the exhaust fab.
The owner is a World member on the west coast.

Posted by: DBCooper Nov 16 2011, 05:51 PM

I don't think there's any argument that you CAN turbo a T4, OTTOX914 has done a really cool job of it, for example, and it appears to work great. Question has always been how long it will last. The T4 architecture isn't really conducive to holding in those pressures.

Great work Extremely cool.

Posted by: Krieger Nov 16 2011, 06:06 PM

There is one big problem though...In the 4th picture the valves are in backwards. It definately won't work. You can't tubo a 914.

Posted by: Krieger Nov 16 2011, 06:09 PM

Ha! Very nice work! How much? What size turbo/tubing. For higher reving or lower grunt?

Posted by: Gint Nov 16 2011, 06:12 PM

Can you do that standing on your head?

Posted by: JmuRiz Nov 16 2011, 06:26 PM

I'd guess it will use the horizontal cooling fan setup.

Posted by: rohar Nov 16 2011, 06:41 PM

That's pretty damned cool. If the owner mates it with CIS, he get's all the man points available.

Seriously, I'll give him some of mine.

Posted by: kg6dxn Nov 16 2011, 07:48 PM

That's an oil and Water cooled turbo. I wonder what the cooling solution is?

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Nov 16 2011, 08:10 PM

No no. He just took the picture in Australia.

Zach

Posted by: ConeDodger Nov 16 2011, 08:15 PM

He might be keeping it a secret in which case, I am letting the cat out of the bag but McMark has both turbocharged and put fuel injection and crankfired ignition on a 914...

Posted by: wingnut86 Nov 16 2011, 08:51 PM

Wow,

I want one of those lifts.

Is that a CeilingPak by BendPak?

Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 16 2011, 09:20 PM

Price is similar to other Tangerine Headers.
Garrett T3/T04. 1 5/8" primaries, 2 1/2" outlet.
Its a big turbo going on a 2.6L stroker. Not my engine or car so I don't know any more details.

Posted by: URY914 Nov 16 2011, 10:08 PM

I'll make it fit in my car.

Posted by: Andyrew Nov 16 2011, 10:15 PM

Thats a pretty big turbo! At least 300hp in street application. Probably will end up being closer to 400hp

Posted by: Randal Nov 16 2011, 10:25 PM

What kind of RWHP do you think you'll get?

My guess is that to make anything reliable I'd have to change my pistons and maybe the heads.

But it might be worth it if 300 hp was on tap.

A season of autoxing isn't all that much time on the motor.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Nov 17 2011, 12:23 AM

DB, you've run into one of the longer-running jokes in the on-line 914 community. Quite a number of years ago, a certain car magazine wrote that "everyone knows you can't turbo a 914". That despite several counterexamples already being on the road. When someone wrote a letter in pointing out one or two of those examples, they exclaimed that those just proved the point. (Somehow.)

So everyone started responding to any "914 Turbo" talk with, "Everybody knows you can't turbo a 914!"

--DD

Posted by: Andyrew Nov 17 2011, 12:43 AM

Randal,

Its not always about the HP, as much as it is the powerband with turbo's. Autox will need quick spool so you'll want to keep it a medium-large turbo, and not something monsterous. You can also use some of the latest turbo technologies (Ball bearings, HTA houseings, ect) to get quicker spools and more efficiency. If your engine is making 150whp N/A and you use a journal bearing turbo good for full spool at 3500 and efficient to 6500, your probably going to see 300whp or more pretty easy. These are all speculations, but suffice it to say 300hp is nothing for a prepped motor now adays. Just look at Brittans subaru engine, He is keeping his boost low and still making huge power (400hp?) with insanely quick spool. My old Audi engine was very similar, Produced 330hp on a relatively small turbo with a good amount of boost and had a ridiculously quick spool, I was always in full power and held that power all the way to 7200rpms.



Turbo's are the way to go. Period.

Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 17 2011, 08:26 AM

Actually not. The crank pulley sticks out too far to use the collector arrangement on this exhaust. The owner is using a DTM. I don't know what induction.

My plan is to use two small turbos with my dual throttle body intakes. That will work with the horizontal cooling.

Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 17 2011, 08:32 AM

This is one side of a double slip joint.


Tube clamp


Front view of the header

Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 17 2011, 08:41 AM

Dave D is spot on.
Ed Morrow (ejm), who works here, turbocharged one of his 914s many years ago.
Stock 1.8L engine with CIS.
AFAIK, the layout of this one with the turbo in front of the engine is unique.

Posted by: Krieger Nov 17 2011, 08:44 AM

Dang it Chris, now I may have to start working on my red 75 as well. I was really really close to doing this and using the fuel system and turbo off 80/90s Volvo....almost identicle displacement as my built 2.3.

Posted by: DBCooper Nov 17 2011, 10:05 AM

Yeah, don't think I "just" ran into it. Are you talking about the late VW Trends? In reaction to their article on Mark Stephens and his "Big Block" 103 or 104mm cylinders? If so I think that statement had been made previously by Jake on usenet, in the RAMVA news group. The discussion was about the Europeans using 103 and larger cylinders, using fifth and sixth studding of the cylinders to keep the heads sealed. Jake's observation was that poor cylinder sealing was why you couldn't turbo a T4, and it was taken up as a mantra inside in RAMVA. There were several northern Europeans who were already running and ended up getting ridiculous horsepower from turboed T4's. That was their joke, that you "couldn't do" what they'd just done. Then the VW Trends article came out and everyone whooped. It could be that Jake was just repeating what he'd heard somewhere else, but that's where it turned into a running joke.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Nov 17 2011, 10:19 AM

Weld some "Quick Release" latches on the engine support bar for him.

(nice fab work BTW)

Posted by: Dave_Darling Nov 17 2011, 10:21 AM

It was specific to 914s, actually. And the mag was "european car".

--DD

Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 17 2011, 10:26 AM

LOL
I think the easiest only way to install the exhaust will be to assemble it on the engine before lifting the engine into place.

Posted by: davidj Nov 17 2011, 10:57 AM

I visit this site often:

http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=131253

Posted by: nein14 Nov 17 2011, 12:02 PM

YOU CAN TURBO A 914

Posted by: maf914 Nov 17 2011, 12:51 PM

What? No traditional Tangerine stub pipes on that system?

Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 17 2011, 01:11 PM

In order to eliminate a potential leak path (and to save some $$) we integrated them into the primaries. My slotted design mounting tabs allow installation of the assembled primaries without difficulty.

Posted by: rtalich Nov 17 2011, 04:48 PM

That is indeed one awesome exhaust system!! Wait until you see it coated...

I started collecting parts for this beast little over 3 years ago. I can't believe its been that long. Here are a few more details and pics... 100mm Turbo Nickies w/JE pistons and 82mm crank. DTM, SDS EFI using Jenvey TB's. Should get a couple hundred HP don't you think?

Just a few more peices to the puzzle then I can start building... getting closer!!


Mockup... Thermal displacement coated case.










-Rob

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 17 2011, 06:45 PM

Rob, the design of those parts looks familiar. Glad to see it coming together finally.

Posted by: get off my lawn Nov 17 2011, 07:13 PM

Yes, you can. And you can make it reliable. And streetable. And last a long time. IFF>>>>>>. you have enough brains and common sense not to try and cram a gazzilion psi of boost into it. There are many of us who have done it, right.

And the size of the turbo doesn't have anything to do with the HP the engine is gonna make. The waste gate determines that.
The size of the turbo determines how much boost the turbo is capable of making.





Attached image(s)

Posted by: a914dude Nov 17 2011, 07:43 PM

Looks like Sammy has a new login name.

Jeff Shyu, Jenny's brother also did one.

Posted by: rtalich Nov 17 2011, 07:45 PM

Yes. Thanks! One part/piece at a time. Almost there now.

-Rob

Posted by: JmuRiz Nov 17 2011, 08:05 PM

Yowzer, those are some wild components!
I love an 'oddball' build...I have a feeling this one will satisfy.

Posted by: rtalich Dec 2 2011, 06:45 PM

Delivery just came to the door... from CFR... wonder what it is?

Posted by: charliew Dec 3 2011, 01:05 PM

Really nice pipe fabbing. I wonder how the inside of the welds looks. That I my hardest to do part.

Posted by: 76-914 Dec 4 2011, 10:34 AM

That's a beautiful build and some nice beautiful fab work, Chris (and crew in the background). I'm really interested in reading some more on this as well as others Turbo builds and experience from track to street. Will some of you guy's like Sammy mind starting some threads re: this. TIA