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Posted by: nine14cats Apr 28 2003, 02:54 PM

Hey Guys,

Need help on suspension/rear spring rates. I was running an auto-x this weekend and did well. However, I was carrying enough speed around corners that I was lifting the inside front wheel in the air going through turns. I also would scream through a back straight before a hard turn and when I would brake hard, the rear of the car started hopping. The tires were still turning in the rear, but the rear would hop. I'm talking about really HARD braking.

I was wondering if I need heavier springs in the back (200lbs or better). I've got 23mm torsion bars up front, 22mm sway adjustable up front, 16mm sway in the rear, 180lbs springs in the rear. Bisteins all the way around.

Any suggestions to the remedy. I was staying up amongst the leaders, but it seems 4 wheels of grip would be better than 3. And the hopping I don't like.......

Thanks,

Bill P.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 28 2003, 03:33 PM

6cyl.. car we run 225's or 250's

This requires you to go adjustable coil over. The spring rates available are in 25lb increments and then you can run 5lb helper springs if you really want to dial in the spring rates.


I'll show you a pic here in a minute or two.

B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 28 2003, 03:39 PM

This is what it looks like with a Bilstein...

I dont have a Koni pic readily available. We run a shorter spring on the Koni...otherwise no different appearing.


B

Posted by: nine14cats Apr 28 2003, 04:25 PM

Hi B,

Thanks for the info. How much for a setup and where?

Does it make a difference in the 225 versus 250 based on horsepower of the 6 cyl? My car accelerates pretty well. It's putting out over 230hp...I need to hook up my Gtech to get a quick read....

am I okay with torsion bars in the front? or are coilovers all the way around the better way to go? (thinking ahead.....)

Thanks,

Bill P.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 28 2003, 04:32 PM

Jason@Paragon products has good pricing on the Koni's and sells a complete kit. I think the last time I bought from him...everything was 400$ or so. He sells Eibach springs. The springs are 90$-100$ so buy some 225's+250's.

Your torsion bars will be fine for a long time.... IF you step up and buy/install a real sway bar and not the WELT crap. Run a Tarret bar or a 31mm Smart bar and you can get away with not going coil over for a several years.

Ha ha .. I do have those RSR's with Turbo brakes... you know you want them along with Muellers roller bearing suspension.

I should let you drive one of the cars with the roller bearings. Its a whole new world in race car suspension control.

B

Posted by: nine14cats Apr 28 2003, 04:43 PM

so now i can't keep my bilsteins in the front either?...... man.....

you like the koni's over the Bilstein's...that big of difference huh?

while I'm at it....what is the damage for the turbo brakes?

This "racing" sickness is hard to stomach sometimes....

Bill P.

Posted by: SirAndy Apr 28 2003, 04:48 PM

you can't sell those! pack them up and put them on top of the shelves until i sell my company!

Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 28 2003, 04:51 PM

The Koni's are adjustable. They really allow you to fine tune the car. The Bilsteins are great for street and track... but you have to send them in to have them revalved. This doesnt work when you are changing the settings for each track. We dial in the Koni's depending on what track we are at.

Complete Turbo package (front and rear) with 9146 drive flanges and stub axles/RSR threaded coil over struts... 2200$ exchange with your setup. I was going to run the ads for them at 3000$..I figure your setup is worth 800$ if not more. Its just an option. I can even change your studs out for you (If I recall correctly.. we went with long studs on your rear hubs)

B

Posted by: L8Apex Apr 28 2003, 04:58 PM

wouldn't a soft front end (thinner torsion bars) cause the rears to lift too?

Brad, on the rears, ( I have yellow Bilsteins) will I be able to put some threaded sleeves on there to make the rear height adjustable?




OOPS! sorry for the extra large pic.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 28 2003, 05:02 PM

Terrence... you have everything you need except the threaded collars. Stop by Frey Racing and pick a set up. You have the correct springs and helper springs.

Somebody who assembled your shocks had a clue.. and just didnt buy the threaded pieces. They run about 90$ total for both sides.

We dont normally lift inside rear tires unless you have the rear bar hooked up.

B

Posted by: L8Apex Apr 28 2003, 05:11 PM

Bruce at Frey had some elcheapo college student priced threaded collars for $15 each side or something. I'm gonna swing by tomorow and get them. These springs are 2.5 inches ID right? (too lazy to measure now, but they look like it)

Posted by: Mueller Apr 28 2003, 06:01 PM

Hey Terrence,

think you could make that picture any bigger

You'll need to measure the diameter of your shock, when I was in Frey's last week I was going to pick up the threaded tubes and the collars, but they have a few different ID's.

Knowing that you are on a budget, you might be able to get away with just one threaded tube and two collars...cut the tube in half

It's not likely one needs 5 inches of threaded adjustment since the Bilstiens have the circlips.

Posted by: L8Apex Apr 28 2003, 08:37 PM

I said sorry!

hehe. Yeah, I should check it out. Maybe I could cut one in half. Hmm.... I'm gonna do some measuring tonight, then swing over there tomorow morning to check it out.

Yeah, I noticed the circlips on my shocks. Looks good.

BTW, question about spring rates. Are the springs "stiffer" if they are longer? For example, a 200lb 9 inch spring is stiffer than a 200lb 5 inch spring. I ask because I have seen some spring kits, (for honduuuhhs) that have short springs for threaded bodies rated at a certain weight, like 400lbs, but they ride just as nice as a regular linear long spring (12 inches) that's rated at 275lbs.