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Posted by: trekkor Aug 16 2004, 10:36 PM

Here it is.
Make a choice, and then tell us all why you say so.

Argue somewhere else. Make your point and move on, please.


Thanks 914club!

Trekkor

Posted by: Aaron Cox Aug 16 2004, 10:38 PM

I fell in love with an 2.4 MFI six

Posted by: anthony Aug 16 2004, 11:04 PM

In decreasing order of HP requirements:

I vote big six for over 200hp


big four for around 150hp


stockish 2L for around 100hp

Posted by: seanery Aug 16 2004, 11:06 PM

I voted Mid Six, but really anything 2.2S and bigger is great!
But I'd buy a real six and leave it as is, well maybe 2.0 S pistons and E cams and be happy.

Posted by: McMark Aug 16 2004, 11:14 PM

A 2270 that is well built will put out enough horsepower to make a 914 an exciting daily driver without overpowering it. Small sixes are a ton of work for no HP gain, big sixes are expensive, and V8 are so overpowered that daily driving becomes a chore.

Posted by: Steve Aug 16 2004, 11:45 PM

I voted big six.
The no hassle DME 3.2 is priceless over all.
But I do miss my 2.7 with webers.
The 2.7 was a direct bolt up with early stock flywheel and clutch.
I also miss the awesome sound of the webers especially in the Alameda tunnel.

But I don't miss the pulled head studs, clogged jets and tensioner problems.
All but the carb hassle could of been fixed with a proper overhaul.

The 3.2 motor cost me less money than over hauling the 2.7 and it already had all the updates with no carb hassles.

At the time 3.6 motors were to much money and hassle.
Cutting up the tin and major hassle to get to the bottom plugs turned me off.

If or when my 3.2 dies I might look into a 3.6 since they have dropped in price...

Steve

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 16 2004, 11:50 PM

v8's for the cost of maintaining.... Parts are cheap, and everywhere..

Posted by: 914Timo Aug 17 2004, 02:18 AM

I suppose small six is 2.0 - 2.7 L, mid six is 3.0 - 3.2 L and big six is 3.6 L. Right ??

Then my choice is mid six

Posted by: Mueller Aug 17 2004, 03:14 AM

i voted big /6.......no other logical choice when there is no budget contraint...well, at least with your poll it's an unlimited option

Posted by: michel richard Aug 17 2004, 05:18 AM

small six, with E or S or better cam, high compression, perhaps twin plugs, perhaps slightly stiffer valve springs, with appropriate gearing.

Will have good torque and will positively howl. Take it to 8K and enjoy.

Michel Richard

Posted by: Jake Raby Aug 17 2004, 07:18 AM

Of course I voted Big Four.

Without a doubt run a 2270 or a 2316. The 2270 is good for no less than 145HP, and the 2316 is good for no less than 175HP.

When you go bigger than these two engines, the only way to reliably do it is with a set of Nickies, then the build becomes a Superhero and is no longer affordable.

I am really tired of the whole thing with which is the best way to go......... I gave up on the 914 market a long time ago, and now if I sell one for a 914 I consider it a freak thing. I have a buyer for the plans to 9 of my 914 engine combos and if things keep up I'll be selling them at the first of the year. The buyer is in Europe, where conversions are more trouble than they are worth, literally.

Posted by: synthesisdv Aug 17 2004, 07:37 AM

I thought I was a freak, now I'm sure.

dr

Posted by: iamchappy Aug 17 2004, 07:46 AM

I voted big six, my reason is that I felt Porsche should of built the 914 with the same running gear and engines as they evolved in 911's, It was my dream back in the 70's that they would, and hoped Porsche would build a 914 turbo carrera. They didn't so I did.
I now have a a car that is easy and smooth and very drivable around town, yet can crank it up on demand.

The 2.0 fours deliver a very nice smooth fun economical daily driving car which is great on the highway and I enjoyed driving one for 30 years, but it should of least had a six option throughout it's years of production.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 17 2004, 08:38 AM

Add 90mm Euro RS P&C's (fairly inexpensive) to any 66mm 2.0 - 2.2 block. Rebush the rod ends to raise your compression back up (RS's were fairly low and even lower on a 66m crank). Install S-Cams and Webers and have fun with your 230hp 2.5 liter mid-six monster.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Aug 17 2004, 08:41 AM

my .02:

if you are wanting an engine for POWER... go Chebbie...


if you want the sound of a six... go 3.0+

if you just want to get there quickly, and keep the car a classic cool(with still plenty of pep) go big 4 (2056, or 2270)... and get a Raby engine...


me, personally, it would be a Raby or a Chevy... the 6 conversion would be something I would just want to do to say "I did it"... the Chevy will offer more power for less $$$, and the 4 is just plain cooler to me!

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 17 2004, 08:45 AM

A six may be neat but the price to do one right here will buy me 2 or 3 nice 914’s.

I love how the cali /6 guys brag about their 200.000mile maintaince free 3.0 or 3.2’s, but up here these engines still have stud issues. Not pulling, but rusting and breaking. The cost of a 3.0 or 3.2 engine, again up here, is around 10 to 15K (Canadian) depending if it’s a top end or rebuilt. By the time you add the conversion I may as well go buy a nice 911 and have 2 cars.

I can rebuild a four or a six, as I’ve done both, but I’ll still do a four for myself, but that may be just because I’m a bug guy and I have always had fours

Besides, I have a rather large penis and don’t have to prove anything.

Posted by: jporsche914 Aug 17 2004, 08:51 AM

I am perfectally happy with my stock 1.7L. My car will go the speed limit and far beyond it and that is all a care about. But i have to say it would be fun to have about 160hp.

Posted by: Jake Raby Aug 17 2004, 09:05 AM

A Nickies equipped four, with DLC coatings, new advancements and fine craftsmanship could stay with the six boys that brag about 200K miles. I have seen a TIV bottom end with 321K miles not even need an align bore!

Posted by: theol00 Aug 17 2004, 09:07 AM

Love my 2.2 with E cams and Webers - kick in the pant to drive and that sound...

Posted by: PorscheTom Aug 17 2004, 09:19 AM

A big four gets my vote. Alot easier and cheaper to do than a six conversion for us nonengineer types. Considering the price of the six conversion, I'd probably buy a nice 911 Targa, keep my 914, and call it even.

Posted by: scotty Aug 17 2004, 09:59 AM

O-O-O-O! Powerpowerpower. Yeah.

Too much of a good thing is never enough.

(null vote -- more power than a stock 1.8 = Good)

Posted by: red914 Aug 17 2004, 10:01 AM

i love reading about and seeing pictures of the conversions you guys do, but affordability is the name of the game here. i am ecstatic that i will soon be installing dual 34 webers on my 1.7. my car is still a blast to drive, and if i take care of it, maybe i can go with big hp later in its life. keep the Porsche porn coming!

Jake, i wish i had the money to send you in exchange for an engine. I get downright inspired whenever you post a dyno readout. rawk on! leave it to a former Marine to take something and make it more powerful.

Posted by: Jake Raby Aug 17 2004, 10:41 AM

Considering that Marines are usually really good at destroying things I take that as a compliment for sure.

Posted by: red914 Aug 17 2004, 01:05 PM

i understand you have destroyed a few engines in the process of developing the power! blowing up stuff is cool.

what i was alluding to in the first comment was your taking something you wanted to use and improving it through modification. i am sure you saw that sort of thing in the green machine, from tools to expedient antenna.

keep up the good work; i may be too poor (or cheap) to afford one of those awesome type IVs, but by gosh, i sure appreciate seeing what you do.

Posted by: URY914 Aug 17 2004, 01:25 PM

This is like asking how high is up?

The answer is- it all depends on what you want to do with it.
Autox or Land Speed record or fun street car.

I say a big -6 would be fun just to hear it.

Paul

Posted by: J P Stein Aug 17 2004, 01:35 PM

My vote is do what you wanna do and the hell with what anybody thinks/recommends.....research is gud, tho.

If YOU then don't like it, do sumthin else. There will always someone that says "I told you so".....fuckem'.

Enjoy yourself with whatever you do.....or redo.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Aug 17 2004, 01:45 PM

2,8 RS -- izzat 'mid' or 'big' ? i called it 'mid' 'cause it'd be built on a pre-SC case.
it's big enough, it's strong enough, and doggone it, people like it.

Posted by: mwyatt Aug 17 2004, 01:46 PM

2.7 Six
Great combination of power, relatively low weight (compared to big six or eight), tractability, noise, pedigree, and last but certainly not least - added resale value.
Until I can afford one however, I'll stick with my modified 2.0 four - a great second choice.

Posted by: balljoint Aug 17 2004, 02:53 PM

I voted BIG 4, 'cuz that's what I want.

Posted by: Eddie914 Aug 17 2004, 04:08 PM

J P

I second your comment ...

Eddie

Posted by: shoguneagle Aug 17 2004, 04:39 PM

I love everything that is being mentioned on this thread. Affordability, development, engine size, big engine, little engine, mid- engine, 2.0 vs. 2.7 vs. 3.2 vs 3.8, big engine, chevy (v-8 power), etc. I love it all!!

Then the question becomes what fits you at a particular time. At this time in my life---I do not want a Ferrari, Lambo, AC Cobra, Porsche, Corvette, Big Block Classics, Collectible cars, etc. I want a rev'er, a 2.x family engine in a mid engine car. Agas!! A Boxer??? NO!!! I like older things, a mid engine car and a reving engine. A Lotus??? Have one, not satisfied. Have a Corvette, Not Satisfied (good for touring, but not for club events). Alfa Romeo??? Have one and will restore because of special type car, but still not mid-engine, not quick, but is very agile. What is left since I can only relate to historic type cars (not Fix It Again Tony Cars). I keep coming back to Porsche. 911?? no, not mid-engine and its handling is quirky (tail end heavy). O'boy, a Boxster -- the car I am looking for all my life; too heavy, no character, no history, no---------------. Thus, the only thing left is a 914 and in my case it has to be a flat six in the 2.x family. It does not matter what size engine since they are quick, agile, and surprisingly dependable. The larger engines lead me to traveling the path of the "hot rodders". This path is different from the one I want to travel. American Hot Rodding is a great path and I have many friends who are involved with it.

The true Path for me is the 914 Sixer route. I can relate to the histories of the Grand Prix; I can relate to the histories of Porsche Club of America; I can relate to under powered cars willing on shear guts and staminia; I can relate tGo club involvement at the individual membership level; thus-----I can relate to history!!!! Gotta have my P-Car fix daily; thus----914-6 flat 2.x family. Don't need anything larger, otherwise buy a more current and up to-date car. Gotta have my fix, GOTTA HAVE MY 914 FLAT SIX.

WHAT KIND OF FIX DO YOU NEED?????

Steve Hurt

Posted by: Gint Aug 17 2004, 04:56 PM

I voted mid six. Like I said a few weeks ago, I think 150-175hp six is a great motor for a 914. But that's just MHO.

That's what mine is supposed to be. And what it feels like. I love it. When it's back on the road, it will do time on a dyno so I can find out for sure what I've got.

Posted by: trekkor Aug 17 2004, 06:48 PM

Great comments

Good stuff ahead

I said mid SIX 'cus that's what I bought ( maybe a small SIX ).
That'd be o.k. too.

KT

Posted by: bondo Aug 17 2004, 07:18 PM

I voted V8. Get a ride in one, then you'll understand. There's something to be said for a light car with gobs of torque.

Posted by: Racer Chris Aug 18 2004, 06:02 AM

I voted for any 4. I originally bought a stock 1.7. Later on raced it in stock trim. Currently I race with a 1.8 that develops about 150hp. Next I hope to have about 175+ behind me with the same displacement. I do have a 2.2 street car with about 175 and it is an absolute blast to drive. I don't need any more power than that, but more displacement for more bottom end torque in my street car would be awesome.
I really like being able to do more with less.

Posted by: Porcharu Aug 29 2009, 01:27 AM

The 'other' big six. SVX Subaru 3.3l bored to 3.5l. 11:1 compression, moderate cams, header with reprogrammed stock ECU = 300+ HP in a reliable street engine while keeping the awesome flat six sound. Of course this is after I get the big Subaru four installed and going.
Steve

Posted by: HaraldD Aug 29 2009, 02:00 AM

Hello!
I voted for small Six...
Here`s something for your Ears....:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWQPzcw1oac

2,0 "S" with a little bit more HP (about 185)...

Posted by: slow914 Aug 29 2009, 03:25 AM

Def big four just on lightness and keeping it real concept though the coolest sound I ever heard was from a 2.0 6 with 12.5 compression and a GT muffler so I dont know. Id love to hear a big four with no muffler

Posted by: JazonJJordan Aug 29 2009, 04:37 AM

This perspective would depend on position maybe; I see the six's and four's paired:

Both the small six and four underdogs show merit when you really get to wind them out. I feel complete when I have wrung them out knowing it is the touch and timing that now makes more differrence at those limits.

Both the mid six and four come into their own; it is very noticeable how an approachable underpowered agility has now equaly balanced in power-weight-responsiveness. The lean runner just filled out to what we believe we deserved right off the line.

Both the big six and fours are a departure. They are moody wild horses. They overwhelm the simplicity and also the easy balance. Balance now comes at a price and simplicity lost its' fight. What remains is a glaring beast a little less than violent to often alarming.

These cars (to me) remain stoicly in keeping with the bloodline, while heralding certain beautiful attitudes only our 914's possess. While the overall balance changes little, the power distributes a truly different presence.

The v8 alone presents such a solution of traditional power at lower cost and availablity. It truly overwhelms in torque and power and weight. A rotary or subaru or other mill finds solution in strange territory; very high revs, flat curve response and other un-914 manners.

I like them all- really and have learned to respect each as an opportunity of study.
Given the choice, I will like to wind out a smaller engine than to just tap a big power plant. But the mids only show themselves as matured while the remainder show the weaknesses of exhilarating wildness with that extra effort that follows~

Posted by: Rod Aug 29 2009, 06:00 AM

Good question and one I have been pondering recently as I NEED more power in my 1.7l.

MY thoughts were to go mid size 3.0 3.2 six-cylinder, but I still think that building a powerful 4 will give the biggest buzz. I just love the idea of a tuned four. My car is used for a lot of long runs though and I'm concerned that if I have a tuned 4 that it may be a bit of a bore on long journeys. So then I think a standard 3.2 six would be perfect again, but then I worry about costs and rebuilding the six.

The engine in my 1.7L is a great one, reliable and solid + totally standard with perfect D-Jet, so I'm in two minds whether to leave it in place too...

Oh god!

Posted by: gothspeed Aug 29 2009, 09:47 AM

So you will not be selling kits anymore........ ?? I think your engines are great ..... they are light and powerful ...... exactly what I think these cars should be ....... I have had 911s/930/993TT and I think those 'big six' engines are too heavy for the 914 chassis ....... sure there are plenty of great examples but they need all kinds chassis reinforcements, monster wheels/tires and tons of other stuff to balance the car ...... which are components that add weight .......... I am of the opinion that one can build a light four cylinder 914 that will run just as hard around a track as a 'loaded up' 914 with a 'big six'......... without the expense of a 'big six'.

That is the reason I bought a 914 ........ I was tired of all the complexity of those bigger 'faster' cars ........ the 'bigger is better race' was just never going to end ...... ultimately I want about 150hp four in a lightweight, sway barred, GT flared chassis ......... so I don't have to run wheels bigger than Fuchs 7s and 8s ....... it will look awesome, be a blast to drive and will be easy to work on ..........

So what will be the ultimate status of your engine kits in the next year or so Mr. Raby?

Posted by: KELTY360 Aug 29 2009, 10:53 AM

Now that's an eloquent argument!

Posted by: jmill Aug 29 2009, 11:26 AM

Another 5 year old thread dug up. You gotta love it. Don't get freaked out Gothspeed. Jake wrote that 5 years ago.

BTW - I voted small 6. Nothing like that sound at 8k.

Posted by: gothspeed Aug 29 2009, 12:04 PM

................ lol .............. I never look at the thread dates ............................... looks like Jake was either sarcastic or tired that one day ........

I will agree a nicely balanced six at 8k RPM does sound fantastic ..........

Posted by: Drums66 Aug 29 2009, 01:27 PM

I voted big 4......but as someone previously stated
be an Individual??...do what you like.

Posted by: cwpeden Aug 29 2009, 02:48 PM

Any four....type 4 that is

Posted by: rfuerst911sc Aug 29 2009, 04:23 PM

I voted mid-size six because I'm almost done with my 3.0 conversion. For me aprox. 200 hp with stock internals and 40mmWebers along with headers should be a nice package. I know I can get more power with better pistons and cams but I'm thinking this will be a very exciting ride as is.

Posted by: BMXerror Aug 29 2009, 06:55 PM

I put 'alternate conversion motor' because there's no option for flat-8.
Mark D.

Posted by: tornik550 Aug 29 2009, 08:33 PM

I vote for BIG FOUR. I personally much prefer the 4 because of its simplicity and its weight. Sixes are nice however the are expensive, heavy and complicated. I personally am not interested in v8's and so forth.

I enjoy the precision and finesse that is required to make a 914/4 fast.

Posted by: Jake Raby Aug 29 2009, 11:31 PM

Lots has changed since I posted this 5 years ago.. Now with the teener bringing more money and being owned by a different group of enthusiasts engines are being built more precisely and the appreciation the /4 deserves is being applied...

There were several years where I was really down on the 914 application, everyone wanting to do the cheapest thing and cutting corners.. About the time I was going to pull the plug on the teener the following changed... Today we sell more 914 specific engine kits than anything other than the VW Bus combinations.

I restructure the engine kit program every two years to update the combos and refine the processes.. I am taking it offline in October for the 2010 and 2011 updates, details about these are on my forums...

Posted by: Justinp71 Aug 29 2009, 11:34 PM

You're gonna love your car when you get it on the road, I just did the same swap last year... Its great on the track too.

There is no substitute for a Flat Six... That is Porsche's motto right?

I will admit though its hard to beat a setup four at an a/x.

Posted by: J P Stein Aug 30 2009, 06:19 AM

No it's not. All one needs is a more well set up 6.

Shameless plug: Buy my mine & 4get about 4s.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Aug 30 2009, 08:10 AM

JP just curious what your weight distribution is on your car.
Having weighed my car recently I am 60% to the rear and my Massive type IV is significantly lighter than your 6.

Posted by: J P Stein Aug 30 2009, 10:54 AM

It's been a while since I corner balanced, but as I recall it's 58 % on the rear. I may have the numbers somewhere.

Posted by: ConeDodger Aug 30 2009, 12:02 PM

Mine is a perfect 50% crossweight... Flat as a 12 year old Catholic girl in corners. Hard to beat a good 4 cylinder for weight and balance.

Posted by: Bill D Aug 30 2009, 03:38 PM

Had a stock 4 for several years as a daily driver until my wife got hit head on while driving it by a 68 chevy that ran a light at highway speed. Never liked the sound of the 4. My first Porsche was a 914-6 and I loved every thing about it. I would vote for a 3.2 motronic but I'm sill in the middle of the 1.9TD conversion which is my 1st choice now.

Posted by: Rand Aug 30 2009, 05:28 PM

Hey Trek, you enjoying this revival from over the fence???
Chime back in to your poll. About time for it.

Posted by: WLD419 Aug 30 2009, 07:56 PM

I vote a 4, in my case a big 4

Posted by: gothspeed Aug 30 2009, 08:35 PM

Alright!!!! .............. once the 150 HP mark was done reliably on a type IV ........ there is really no reason to go with a six ...... the six will have more power but much of it goes to offset the added weight ...... when coupled with all the chassis mods required .... which add even more weight, there is really no significant net return on 'overall' performance IMO ........ I would love to have have one of Raby's type IV kits (if possible a higher RPM version, with peak HP at 6500 RPM) ...... but that will happen when significant moves in my logistics are completed ........

Posted by: Jake Raby Aug 30 2009, 08:43 PM

I try to keep peak HP at 6,000 RPM.. When I have tuned for higher peak output the precious torque was compromised.

Smart people know that torque is more important than HP.. HP sells engines, torque wins races.

RPM= friction. friction= heat. Heat and friction= wear

The key to our success has been keeping engines alive and exceeding power output expectations.. Torque has been the key to all of that, HP not so much.

Posted by: Pat Garvey Aug 30 2009, 08:45 PM

Look, you all know that I am a curmodgeon. A mis sized six to me is somewhere between a 2.2 & 3.0 motor. Never cared much for the 2.2 in my E, and wouldn't want the long term hassles of a 2.7 (though it IS a sweat motor). The 3.0 is pretty much bulletproof but just doesn't look "period" in a 914.

I'd vote for a simple, easy to maintain 2.4 CIS motor. Looks close to correct, but gives a little extra poop over the stock 2 liter. Yeah, I know, it isn't carbed, but I'm only dreaming here anyway.
Pat

Posted by: gothspeed Aug 30 2009, 09:48 PM

I am very familiar with how HP is made ..... Torque x RPM / 5252 = HP ...... a lot of racers like 'low RPM' torque, to get out of corners with a wallop .......... 6000 RPM peak HP is plenty good.............. my passion/experience is with higher RPM DOHC engines of other makes, so I was hoping to get some of that 'sound' here ...... ...... but it will not break my heart if these engines are not well suited for higher RPM.

I am happy you have done all this development on the type IV ....... this way I only have to build a solid Raby kit and go .................... I will probably go weber carbureted 'initially' ......... my 914 is a 1.7 and will need a 71mm crank at conversion time ........ I am not worried about 'perfect' drive-ability ..... just as long as it doesn't die on decel ......... or overheat (I will run additional oil cooling) ....... other than that .... 150 HP-ish should make me and my GT clone very happy

Posted by: Jake Raby Aug 30 2009, 10:16 PM

That keeps it simple.


Every kit I have offers excellent drive-ability.. Whether you think its important or not, it is.. Because it drives so damn good you'll drive it more often.


Do some searches.. I haven't had an overheating complaint in at least 7 years, the designs lend themselves to efficiency and that breeds cool running.


At 150HP these cars become fun... The revised kit program has several more medium output engines offered... But like everything else, prices are going up.

Posted by: Challe Aug 31 2009, 06:43 AM

Damn, I think I just wet my pants!

I didn't notice that this was an old thread, so when I continued to read the posts I was reliefed when I read jakes lasts posts.

I'm a 911 lover and when I bought my 914 it was with plans to have it GT flared, and conversation to a 6. It will cost about the same as to restore a early 911 but I wanted something different. After the first year with the 914 I started to like it as it was, and after 2 years of sorting out the car my plans has changed completly. Now I have started to put back parts that wasn't orginal and my future plans is to keep it so it looks stock but uppgrade the brakes and in a 3-5 year span put in something stronger from Jakes magic shop. I will even keep the 4 lugs fuchs.

The only reason to not do the engine upgrade right now is that I wanted to feel how the car was when it leaved the factory, the engine and gearbox has been overhaulded and I have put in a lot of work and a bit of funds to get it there, so right now I enjoy it as it is and can take my time to figure out how I want my engine upgrade, the only thing I know is that a 6 conversation is not for me.

Posted by: morgan_harwell Aug 31 2009, 09:17 AM

Yep!
Exactly what I was thinking back in 1987. So I did the 2.4T-CIS-six conversion over the winter of 1987-88.

My 2.4L-CIS motor has been very easy to maintain, gets great gas mileage, is ultra reliable, and is very long lived.
22 years later, it is still runing strong. I am extremely happy with this engine.

Maintenence: Tune it up once a year and replace seals once in awhile.
Gas Mileage: it gets 2-3 better MPG than the carbed 2.0L/4 it replaced (and is much faster!).
Reliability: 1 alternator replacement, 1 distributor replacement, 2 clutches, valve guides recently.
Long lived: The 2.4T engine already had 90K on it when I bought/installed it in 1987. It has ~295K miles on it now.

My only complaint: I wish the seals lived as long as the engine.
2nd complaint: I'd like to put a 3.2L-DME engine in the 914, but the 2.4L-CIS engine just won't quit!


Boy! You said it brother! Our 911SC still has its original (never been apart) 3.0L-CIS engine in it. Today that engine has 326K miles on it. BulletProof! You can't kill it, it just runs and runs and ....

Posted by: ME733 Aug 31 2009, 10:09 AM

The reason I voted for a ...4...four is....I prefer a small displacement engine..2.0. + or - or so, which can rev-up fast , peaky race cammed,and with lots of rpm,s..and H.P...I like the "screaming windup" of the F-1 sound. Of course this is matched with a VERY short ratio gearbox. As a old bastard, thats been "around the block" in many types of racing (porsches) My fun is now limited to driving thru the deserted, remote, backroads of a neighboring county. Stoping to feed the horses, deer , and move the turtles off the pavement. I am very Happy.

Posted by: SLITS Aug 31 2009, 06:11 PM

Both

Posted by: cobra94563 Sep 1 2009, 01:17 AM

For me, I would need 250-300hp, so that pretty much eliminates the 3L and 4's. I'd do the 3.2 if the budget was $20k or more (and hang with the porsche groups). $15k or less, the chevy or subie (and hang with the muscle crowd.)
I have a v8 now, but those L33 aluminum engine look tempting and cheap!

Posted by: Jake Raby Sep 1 2009, 06:59 AM

250HP from an N/A /4 on pump gas is a possibility.. In the past 4 years we've built 1/2 dozen of them... All twin plug beasts and one (265HP) was only 2.3 liters. The others were al 2.9 and 3.0 engines.

Posted by: gothspeed Sep 1 2009, 04:37 PM

Dang !!!!! I guess I should up my expectations from 150HP ........... how much power is possible from N/A, weber carbureted, 91 octane and single plug ?


........ as of today ...... things got one solid step closer .......... to the big four ......... but still a quite a few steps to go .........

Posted by: Jake Raby Sep 1 2009, 07:58 PM

210 easily.. with dual Weber 44s.

Posted by: ghuff Sep 1 2009, 09:37 PM

I am looking at it this way:


FOr the price of a built 6, I can make probably 200+whp on a near stock Type IV with boost.

If/when I blow it up, I can swap it out and build another much better all while being under the cost of a six conversion and the 6 motor parts price tag.

If you want to go to a relatively modern turbo 6, your price goes way up apparently.

Bang for the $$$ and with modern turbo technology in mind, 4 pot is the way to go.

Posted by: carreraguy Sep 2 2009, 12:00 AM

In 25 words or less, my reasons for going Subie turbo:
- easier to maintain modern engine,
- lighter compared to a small block Chevy,
- reliable 215 RWHP plus tunable to more if desired.

Posted by: budman5201 Sep 2 2009, 04:47 PM

Only 215? Here let me tune that baby up to 252 like mine!

Posted by: gothspeed Sep 2 2009, 05:02 PM

One cannot argue with that ... !!! ....... if/when I get my 914 to about 1800-1900 pounds (in street trim) ....... it should be a little monster .....

Posted by: underthetire Sep 2 2009, 05:06 PM

I voted other. I want a rotary. Light and fast.

Posted by: carreraguy Sep 2 2009, 09:55 PM

Sure Budman - I'll be right over!
I'll be visiting a local tuner as soon as I free up a few more $$.

Posted by: gothspeed Sep 4 2009, 02:34 PM

This thread needs to stay on the first page ......... ......... I will be working on my interior this holiday weekend ........... but the thought of having 200+ hp in my 914 is changing my priorities .......

Posted by: Todd Enlund Sep 4 2009, 05:15 PM

I voted big 4, because that is my plan.

If the budget allowed, I'd love a 2.5 short stroke twin plug six.

Money no object would involve a Hartley H1.
2.8 L
400 HP @ 10,000 rpm
275 ft-lb @ 7,500 rpm
200 lbs

Posted by: gothspeed Sep 4 2009, 05:46 PM

Dude you are the man for posting about this engine ....... 10k rpm sounds awesome ........ !!!!!

What are the prices for this little monster .... ??

EDIT: .............. I just looked it up ..... it will be about $30,000 ........... which sounds ok depending on what is included ....... is it full running with stacks and ECU? ....... or just a long block? ..........

One may also need to change to a taller ring and pinion on the stock 904 GB ........

Posted by: Joe Ricard Sep 4 2009, 09:46 PM

two Honda motor glued together.
OK not glued.

Posted by: Todd Enlund Sep 4 2009, 09:51 PM

Suzuki. Hayabusa.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Sep 5 2009, 07:08 AM

Yea somethng like that.

Posted by: Nana's_914 Sep 5 2009, 08:12 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEiN72-0f74&feature=related
Sounds pretty civil.

Posted by: gothspeed Sep 6 2009, 11:20 AM

The loudest part is those Individual Throttle Bodies .......... I would build a completely different exhaust for it ............. to get that engine sounding more like an F1 car .....

Posted by: Rod Sep 6 2009, 12:35 PM

I've been giving this some more thought today....

I'm going to go with big 4. It suits the car and I think that a big four with big fat downdraughts and a horizontal fan would look so good in my engine bay I have and give the car huge kudos (and originality) I had nasty looks today because I was going too fast down a country lane (Even though it's a 60mph limit over here) So to up the 90 bhp I have now to 170-180 would be plenty for me - so new thread coming up...

Posted by: gothspeed Sep 6 2009, 06:03 PM

What does this horizontal fan you speak of look like?

Posted by: MikeSpraggi Sep 6 2009, 10:13 PM

I voted for a small six. I am a purist in that respect and a small six a la the 914/6gt is my cup 'o tea. Although I'm building a 2.2 (north of stock), I'd like to track something close to what Porsche raced in the 914's. Just my take. My second choice would be a race prepped 3.0-3.2 six .... just for the fun of it.

Posted by: thesey914 Sep 7 2009, 03:59 AM

Hi Rod, what size of four are you looking at and have you got any ideas about who's going to build it?
I was toying with the idea of a turbo four for a while but in a way I'm glad I didn't as I'd still be fannying around with it now -and my car was on jackstands for well over 4 years.
180 horsepowers would be incredible, my 2.4 only has 140hp and is plenty quick enough for a 37 year old car. My reasoning in the end was the Porsche factory has done all the homework in producing sixes with anything from 110hp to well over 300. I just had to pick the one I wanted and plumb it in. With a six in it 'feels' like a proper Porsche -with my 4 I always felt it sounded like a beetle/camper.
Having said that with a 180hp four there'll be great satisfaction in embarrassing some much larger sixes

Posted by: Rod Sep 7 2009, 04:53 AM

Hi, well 180 may be a bit optimistic, but 160 supposidly easily achievable. I was thinking a 2270 with twin 44's. I would love to get Jake to build me an engine, but looking closer to home I have been in contact with John Maher. Then you go and change my mind again I have a friend who is the tech manager over at Reading head office and he knows I'm looking for a six too..... Spoke to him at the pub yesterday and he said he could get his hands on a 996 turbo engine which has been knocking around in the workshop for a couple of years. Joking - I wouldn't go that far..

Are you going to the meet at Wellington country park in a fortnight btw?

Posted by: thesey914 Sep 7 2009, 05:50 AM

Rod, where is Wellington country park? Are you meeting Sat or Sun (or both)?
I strongly recommend riding in a six before making your decision

Posted by: Rod Sep 7 2009, 05:55 AM

I'm sure you were there last year - http://www.911porscheworld.com/mepasite/291/Porsche_Picnic.aspx Only the Sunday. I have to be at a wedding on Sturday night, so I doubt I'll be there till the early pm. Would love a ride in a six

Posted by: thesey914 Sep 7 2009, 06:46 AM

Ah...the Porscheworld picnic. Hmm it will depend on weather. If I'm there I'll take you for a spin in mine failing the opportunity for a better ride

Posted by: Randal Sep 12 2009, 04:04 PM

Are you guys running any hill climbs in the UK?

Posted by: Rod Sep 12 2009, 04:14 PM

Yes there are a few, I live 30 minutes from Brooklands, which you may have heard of?!?

The next hill climb in the uk is this one - http://www.shelsley-walsh.co.uk/events/content.asp?ms=21&ei=73 Always good!

Posted by: Randal Sep 12 2009, 04:22 PM

When I was living in the UK I was up visiting a buddy in Great Witley. We were sitting outside at his farm and I kept hearing what sounded like a F1 car racing somewhere. We jumped into a car and found the Shelsley Walsh event..

No question it was really great. They were running F1 cars from the past year.

Pretty spectacular watching an F1 run up that hill.

I love to bring one of my race cars over to run that hill. That is one of my life objectives!

Have fun and do post lots of video here.

I don't know Brooklands, but I'll look it up.

Posted by: pcar916 Jan 8 2010, 01:21 PM

If the suspensions are good I like 'em all. I love the light weight of the fours.

BIG 6 was my vote though. I can always modulate the throttle to get out of trouble faster'n I got into it... probably... maybe... almost always.

Posted by: SLITS Jan 8 2010, 04:25 PM

Big 6 .... they just sound right and the seat of pants feel is YEEEEEEAAAAAH!

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 8 2010, 09:05 PM

Funny thing is when I voted, 6 years ago it was for a big four.
Now the big type four is moving over to my '67 bug project and a hot street carbed 3.0/6 is the plan now.

Posted by: scotty b Jan 8 2010, 09:10 PM

3.0 SC make pee pee go stiff

Posted by: kg6dxn Jan 8 2010, 09:56 PM

The V8 is not a chore but it is challenging. It can be a hand full on damp roads. I can't go back to a 4 after driving a V8. With my EFI it's a get in and go car. Now if I can only figure out the heater, then it would be better in the winter. Tires make a big difference with a V8. Right now I have Yokohama Advans with a tread wear of 60. Very nice in the summer, not so good in the winter with so much torque.

Posted by: DiamondD Jan 8 2010, 10:35 PM

I am brand new to these cars. I have only had mine, a pretty nice '74 2.0, since the end of November and have only driven it three times. I really like driving through the twisties in this car and can only imagine that a 150-175 hp Four would be a whole lot of fun.

I voted Big Four and will eventually get one of Jakes kits to put in this car, or find another teener and build it just like I want without having to mess with my nice original car.

Dean

Posted by: bill pierce Jan 10 2010, 01:35 PM

I voted big 4.

I have been into motorcycles ever since I was a kid. This taught me early on the importance of light weight.

I believe a big 4 is the ideal motor for the 914. It gives a good power to weight ratio and keeping the weight down helps in maintaining high corner speeds.

That said, a number of years ago I built a 71 240z with a 406 small block chevy and a 5 speed. In the case of the z it only added 150 lbs over the cast iron 6. It also moved the weight lower and further toward the center of the car.

I'm sticking with the big bore 4 at least for now.

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Feb 15 2010, 09:40 AM

big Four because:
car is purpose built to optimize class rules for target race group
weight
CG, center mass
the pride of stomping GT3s, twin turbos, 3.6s....with a 914/4
I want to do this with a car that lives in teh lower race classifications...below AR-1 cars...or IM. AM got competitive this year, wow
tire wear
cost
available parts
I would never do a six conversion with less than 220hp. my four will be close to that
I can pick it up in the shop alone

Posted by: gothspeed Feb 15 2010, 04:18 PM

Still on track for a big four ..........

Posted by: Justinp71 Feb 15 2010, 05:28 PM

I have a 3.0 six, with webbers, cams and headers. I think this is a great setup. I think I have less into it then most do into a 180hp four cyl... This setup completely rocks!!!

I also believe the value of the car goes up much more with a six than a big four...

Posted by: J P Stein Feb 15 2010, 05:36 PM

I've been on the 914 forums for 10-11 years. A ton of folks talk up what they are going to do with a big 4....kick ass & take names is the gereral drift. Bout as close as anyone has come is Randal & his rig......of course he has as much $$ in his motor as I have in my whole car (or damn close). He sat out last season entirely. There are a few quick 4 bangers but they are more driver/chassis set up than motor and they stay well away from SCCA AX cause they go into the big dog classes. I'm still waiting.

Posted by: tornik550 Feb 15 2010, 07:11 PM

I love my big 4. I use mine for cruising around and also for autoX. Here are my reasons for my 4 preference.

1. 4 cyl is much easier to work on
2. 4 is lighter than 6
3. even though a big four is not exactly stock, there is something about having the original engine (however modified) in the car. i suppose a factory 6 would fall into this category. a car that has an engine that was meant for a different car doesn't have the same classic feel.

I can see the appeal of the various conversions however I prefer a Big Four.

Posted by: tornik550 Feb 15 2010, 07:13 PM

I have a 4,6,8 cyl Porsche (although two are not 914's). I would take my 4 cyl any day over my 911 or Cayenne Turbo. I do love my 911 and CTT- just not as much as my 914-4!!!

Posted by: tbox56 Feb 16 2010, 01:16 AM

iv got a vote for a turbo subie engine... i put a naturally aspirated in mine about a year ago and LOVE the torque curve, but would love it even more if i had 300 ponies behind my seat...

Posted by: budman5201 Feb 16 2010, 01:17 AM

Just spanked a Lotus Elise not only around a dual lane onramp, but after. Turbo Subie ej20 JDM version TD05 turbo!


Attached image(s)

Posted by: BigD9146gt Mar 5 2010, 12:15 AM

I agree with justinp71, value of car and drivability are hard to beat with a mild 6 conversion.

However...

1: EEEEEAAAAAA! Wrong. change cams? split case. Oh, your talking about the clearance to adjust the valves... Holy shee-iate batman! how ever will we grind those reliefs on those turbo valve covers to get them off????
2: True, by 150lbs give or take? 911 engines will weigh from 350-450lbs... I can assure you the heavier side of that scale will be in the 993 3.6L range. Power-to-weight-ratio anyone? anyone? Reliability of that much power in a 2000lb car? anyone?
3: Bollocks. Oh no, you blew up your massive 4... you can't possibly buy another cause its not the SAME motor that it came with. Oh, its the same type 4 sure, but not the same case number. how sad. what ever will I do? scrap it mate, its all you can do now. its no longer the original motor.

You know your Cayenne was tested in BMW X5 chassis to begin with right? So your really not enjoying that car like it was originally created and tested... its not original dude, won't have that "classic feel".... scrap that too.

EDIT: Damn, I get 4 gin and tonics in me and i'm a real negative nancy! I did love my 2.0L four, counterweighted crank, hotter cam, 40IDA webbers... first motor i built. I agree, they are fun motors. These cars were designed to have either a 4 or a 6. In 30 years time, an owner of a cheap ass 6cyl Cayenne wants to put a turbocharged 8cyl in it, but your going to say it didn't come that way and isn't "classic"? Really?

Posted by: Justinp71 Mar 5 2010, 06:35 PM

Anything you do to get a 914 close to a 10 :1 hp/wt rating makes the car fun as hell, its like driving a fast street legal go-kart.

But there is something cool about making a 914 all porsche... The car that never was bc porsche was scared to lose out on there 911 ass dragger (IMHO).

Posted by: tat2dphreak Mar 8 2010, 12:01 PM

I've kinda changed my mind. big type 4 is still my first choice, but second only because of the amount of work is now a nice subaru h4

I'd love a six, but the price is just out of this world for me.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jul 21 2010, 09:06 AM

All I know is I built for a customer a big type 4, 2.7 nickies, DTM, 150 RWHP on the chassis dyno, runs great... after all that not enough.

I was building the same engine for myself, but now I'm going to stick that in my bug and build a six.

Posted by: Root_Werks Jul 21 2010, 10:02 AM

Keep in mind this poll/thread was started 6 years ago.

Things have changed a little for the 914 over those 6 years.

Back then I would have screamed "Make them all sixes!"

These days, I'm happy to find one that isn't a rusty bucket and mostly stock.

99% of the "sixes" I've seen, done, driven don't have heaters, noisy as all hell, stink like a gas can (most aren't FI'd) and don't have much more than 150-180hp.

Sure, there are a few that have had over 200hp or a few that have had heat, but not many.

I recall spending some 2g's in BB SS 914-6 heater boxes thinking, "this was probably the worst $2k I think I've ever spent on a single (well pair) part"

Give me a totally stock 914-6 with stock heaters and I think I'd be one happy dude.

But since I don't have that kind of cheese, I'm a happy dude with a stock 2.0 and then happy again maybe upping to a 2270 at some point. 140hp 914-4 would be just as much fun as any little 2.0-2.4 914-6 conversion I've ever done.



Plus I already have SSI's, ahhhhh, heat!

Posted by: Bleyseng Jul 21 2010, 11:38 AM

yeah Dan, 8-10 years ago I was starting my stash of six parts. In the meanwhile I took my 2L apart to make it a 2056 with a Raby FI cam just so I could enjoy it more. Love that combination! Sold off the six parts, you bought the engine...and started my BigFour parts stash which I still have....but I am in love with my 120hp four with heat, starts in 15F weather (this last winter), cruises at 100mph all day on my drives to visit friends far away and if my arm holds up I can AX again and do okay.
yes, it won't blow the doors of a lot of cars but I am past that...but with its suspension setup I can out turn nearly anyone on a track but they will pass me on the straights (Eddie914) .
I have great heat too! plus its quiet enough I can talk to Monique on drives to Southern Oregon and get 30mpg.

Posted by: Justinp71 Jul 21 2010, 12:41 PM

Each to his own I guess... I have a carb'd 3.0 and I love it. Its great and fast, like nothing else I have driven. I'd drive it everyday if it had a/c... dont really need the heat on the westcoast valley.

It does stink a little but not too bad, IMHO because most carbed cars dont have the gas tank vented to the engine and they remove the distributor timing advance (my car is pretty much missing both ), both could be corrected.

Posted by: Van914 Jul 21 2010, 01:25 PM

Justinp71,
I have the same combo in my car too. The 3.0 with P.M.O.carbs and Headers is a blast on the street and track. I had my distributor redone by Barry at I.A.E Inc. He is in Detroit and does a great job in recurving and getting the timing correct. Call him at 313-532-5350. He know Porsches and what to change. No guess work.
Van914

Posted by: thomasotten Jul 21 2010, 02:45 PM

Three or four years ago, I was able to get a Raby kit for under $4k. Now, they are much more expensive. Better, I am sure. But it seems that the upsurge in prices for a hopped up 4 may have shifted this debate, other things remaining constant. Does the under $4-5k kit still exist?

I am very happy with the performance of my 2056, by the way. It is just perfect for the little car.

Posted by: Jake Raby Jul 21 2010, 04:54 PM

Everything is more expensive today.. Even a Big Mac.

Fact is prices have risen because of shitty parts and parts supply more than anything else, and they will continue to do so, especially with things like main bearings becoming non existent along with pushrod tubes and etc.

The economy hasn't really effected our sales, but it has killed several parts suppliers and their ability to keep items on the shelf.. We can't even get what we need to build engines in some instances.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 21 2010, 05:34 PM

I know people are leaning towards 3.6 and 3.8's now but I am still planning on putting a 3.2 box stock with Motronic in my car. I want something with moderate power and torque that is rock solid and reliable. The 3.2 seems to fit that criteria according to the many people with which I have spoken. So unless something changes by the time I get around to actually building the car, it will be a 3.2. Besides, I am old and do not plan to be racing the car anywhere.

Posted by: gothspeed Jul 21 2010, 07:37 PM

They are only 2 for $3.50 here in SoCal ....... !!!

Posted by: thesey914 Jul 22 2010, 09:21 AM

I'm glad this topic won't ever die

Posted by: Ductech Jul 27 2010, 12:05 PM

To bad Raby's getting fed up with the fickle 914 niche.


I vote Bastardization. Because a real heater and A/C are critical when convincing the better half to go on a long drive.

I chose A EZ36d out of a late subaru Tribeca or legacy. This is if money isn't an object.

Posted by: Bleyseng Jul 30 2010, 05:09 AM

A real heater? Wow, mine cooks you out in 5 minutes of driving even in the winter in Seattle when its 20F out.
AC, open the window or take the top off.
Now if I ship my 914 to Suriname I will install AC as its Hot and Humid here -95f and 90% Humidity.

My wife likes to drive the 914 on our trips as she zooms along passing everyone. She doesn't look at the speedo just says "It wants to go faster so I just go!". No tickets so far....

If I want Japanese I will buy Japanese....Like the stupid heavy Altezza I am driving now..POS.

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 30 2010, 11:05 AM

That's a very good choice for a 914. I really like that combo for our cars ...

In fact, i was going to do just that until Bill Pickering made me an offer on his 3.6L package deal that i simply could not refuse.

Damn you Bill!
Andy

Posted by: Bleyseng Jul 30 2010, 11:44 AM

yep, the 3.2L setup is sweet and perfect for our cars. Then you have to spend the money to setup the rest of the car!

Posted by: charliew Jul 31 2010, 02:22 PM

I found out in the 70's I could run the hell out of jap motorcycles and the same thing was the norm for jap cars for me since 77 and non of them leaked oil. The motorcycles were kwasaki's and then hondas and the cars were toyotas mostly. I appreciate any motor that can be run hard and doesn't leak oil from it's seals and doesn't need a byannual going over. The fords and chevs always needed valve cover gaskets or pan gaskets and my air cooled vw's always marked their spot somewhere under the motor or tranny.

I have found though that a turbo suby looks almost as oily as a air cooled vw after about 100k if the oil breather system isn't monitered.

Posted by: Jake Raby Jul 31 2010, 06:28 PM

Not fed up at all, just not wasting time helping people understand why the should stay with a -4 engine. I gladly work with those who choose our way.

BTW it was 103f here today, I drove Beth's 79 vert with T4 power(roller cam 2270) 80 miles to a meeting. The AC system kept the Cockpit just as comfortable as my Boxster or 996. In the winter the A/C system is converted to produce killer heat.

She is an accountant and drives this car anywhere she wants, (her commute is 79 miles daily) I have put 3k miles on it in 6 weeks myself since my 912e is down for updates.. Just because you stay T4 doesn't mean you can't have modern amenities on a longer drive.

Posted by: gothspeed Nov 16 2010, 08:28 PM

A nice four banger is lighter and a lot more simple.

Posted by: vwsamba Nov 20 2010, 06:57 PM

head says big four but heart says mid six so i voted and bought a mid six. nothing will compare to the roar of the triple webers and whine of the big fan behind my head

Posted by: mepstein Nov 20 2010, 06:59 PM

The answer is obvious - 1 of each.

Posted by: rwilner Jul 20 2011, 07:48 PM

When it's time for my rebuild I'll go big 4 because:

1. My car has the original GA engine and I'd like to keep it that way
2. I can keep the rest of the car the way it is and just bolt up the big 4
3. I am familiar with the 4 and how to maintain it
4. It's the cheapest way to put HP in the car and stay aircooled

I definitely want a six someday...but it will come with a 73 911T wrapped around it!

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 20 2011, 08:18 PM

Yepp, them 911s make great donors!

Posted by: John Jul 20 2011, 09:35 PM

When it was time for my 2.0 to be rebuilt, Jake talked to my wife about a rebuild of my existing 2.0. The very next day I had a 3.2 on the way to my house...

Posted by: MoveQik Jul 21 2011, 12:57 AM

Posted by: jdahl Jul 21 2011, 08:56 AM

I'll have to use that strategy with my wife.

Posted by: treborzerimar Jul 21 2011, 10:04 AM

Whatever you run, it's a blasts as long as it runs well. I have driven "6" cars that were poorly assembled and poorly tuned... not fun.

From the point of view of someone that does NOT have the budget to do a proper "6" conversion..... I get much enjoyment from my 2.0(ish) motor.

Yes, it's not the power of a six, but I find the power, handling and exhaust sound appropriate for the car.

.... and my Weber 44's do sound like I'm going fast.... even though... you know



It's all about the budget you have, right? 4... 6..... as long as it's a proper 914!

Posted by: SLITS Jul 21 2011, 10:50 AM

I loved my /4 and wish I had never sold it.

I like my 2.7L ... it has enough power to get in trouble.

Whatever turns your crank ....................

Posted by: Drums66 Jul 21 2011, 03:26 PM

......I agree.........that 4 was enough to make me happy

Posted by: Steve Jul 21 2011, 05:59 PM

Back in the early 80's I bought European Racing's 2.4 kit for my 2.0 four. It consisted of 103mm piston and cylinders (103mm x 71mm stroke)?
It lasted between 10k-15k miles between overhauls. It cost me several thousand two times before I sold it. The first break down one of the rings broke and the second time it sucked a valve.

How many miles is everyone getting out of there big fours before it died with some problem that required you to pull the motor to get it fixed? I am curious how reliable they are compared to a six.

Posted by: patssle Jul 21 2011, 08:48 PM

The best part is getting a motor ready and it's already in a car to test (the 911).
I picked up a 3.0L in a 1974 911 for $6k - it needed a major interior restoration - but it was driveable. So I get a low milage motor, a 915 tranny, 5 lug wheels, entire front end, gauges, and the ability to sell everything else. Got me a hell of a deal!

Posted by: mepstein Jul 22 2011, 10:58 AM

I think that's way to general a question. Are you comparing a factory built 6 to a garage built 4? Ebay p&c's or nickie's from jake? Lot's of variables to consider. One thing I do know is that no matter what size engine you choose, quality cost $.

Posted by: Steve Jul 22 2011, 11:38 AM

Any big type 4, 2.3 liters or bigger. Just looking for feedback. Any details would be great. Home built, Jake motor, European Racing kit, etc. How many miles did you get out of it. What problems did you have with it?

Posted by: moparrob Sep 12 2011, 09:30 PM

Nothing quite like the sound of a big 6, but I am biased...

Posted by: MoveQik Sep 12 2011, 09:33 PM

After driving around all weekend in the mountains, I decided the 3.2 isn't all that. It isn't factory and it is kind of loud. The 1.8 is going back in next week.

Posted by: mepstein Sep 13 2011, 04:17 AM

Keep it stock.

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 13 2011, 07:26 AM

note that this thread started in 2004 - before renegade began offering a turbo subaru conversion kit and before several installed the subaru svx 6 cylinder engine in their cars with suby trans successfully. that said, some don't like radiators : ) there are several ways to view this thread. from a total cost to HP ratio. from a racing view point and what mods are allowed for a particular class. from the standpoint of the best weight balance for AX/etc. most importantly, before considering any conversion, one must ensure their (5 systems) brakes, suspension, steering, chassis and fuel systems are ready for more HP and G forces. a conversion, (sbc v8 with new crate engine $3k, renegade kit $3k, + install labor cost $3k - guesstimate) to (a good big six $4-8k, all the goodies needed to install it $5k + install labor cost $5k - guesstimate) - and - rebuilding all 5 systems can run $5k-$8k as well. add another $1000 to go 5 lug in front. luckily for many of the wrenches here - they do their own installing and in some cases fabrication as well. my current view. check ebay and craigslist for six prices.

Posted by: windforfun Sep 13 2011, 07:57 PM

Posted by: Thestigz06 Sep 13 2011, 08:58 PM

I said big 4 after i heard the sound of a type IV 2770 in my gf's dads Baja!

Posted by: Thestigz06 Sep 13 2011, 09:00 PM

I said big 4. After hearing a Type IV 2770 in my gf's dads Baja!

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Sep 14 2011, 09:20 AM

Jim: good point. the playing field has changed a bit since 2004


does anyone here mention how the owner will use the car? how you use your 914 is key to the answer. Budget is also a huge factor.

AX: big hot four due to weight balance and torque

Track days, TT: Big six. nothing is as floggable as a Porsche six but $ per pony is high and a small six is expensive per pony

daily driver for the next 15 years: small six

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Sep 14 2011, 09:22 AM

V8: still teh best bang for the buck to make a bad ass hot rod street toy

Posted by: MikeSpraggi Sep 18 2011, 07:26 PM

I dunno. A high strung small six is pretty sweet sounding .... nothing quite like it.

Posted by: 70_914 Sep 18 2011, 07:49 PM

I voted big 4. Doesn't mess with the handling like a conversion motor, doesn't cost $15k like a nice 6, and I wouldn't feel bad about putting a lot of miles on a cheap Porsche with a VW motor in it...

Posted by: Randal Oct 20 2011, 10:18 PM

I think you can get a good 6 for less than 15K!

Posted by: pete-stevers Oct 22 2011, 09:58 PM

I have built a six ...early 3.0...but thinking of building a 1.7 for my next car...
When gas climbs past 150 per litre....i want a four

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 31 2012, 03:52 PM

I'll go Electric

Posted by: Trekkor Apr 1 2012, 12:09 AM

Thanks for all of the replies!


KT