Tomorrow I start cutting metal and building the rotisserie I should have had a long time ago. I'm actually quite eager to get going on this project, more than I anticipated. Not only because I've wanted a rotisserie for a long time, but also because once it's finished the 914 that's sitting on the Celette bench will go on the rotisserie. Then I can put a 66 912 project up on the bench and start building my first set of Celette fixtures. Even though they'll be for a 912, the techniques I learn will make the 914 fixtures even better.
I'll be posting pictures of my progress tomorrow, but I couldn't wait to share.
COOL!
There is no way I could have stripped, repaired and completed other big jobs without a rotisserie. It is the best tool out there for a full restoration, IMHO. Good luck with the project -- I'm sure it will make mine look like it was built out of Lincoln Logs and bubble gum.
Geoff
The actual Celette bench is just a big-ass cart. It has a regular grid of holes in the top and a machined smooth surface on top. The fixtures for different cars are bolted to the bench via the holes.
To use the bench, you lift the chassis up and attach a couple fixtures to hold it in place. On a perfectly straight car, all the fixtures will bolt up to the body and line up with their appropriate holes on the bench. On bent cars, the fixtures won't line up.
To straighten a car you bolt up the fixtures which are correct, and then push/pull the body using whatever means necessary to move the mis-aligned fixtures into place. This is the hard part because the 'operator' must understand how the damage occurred, and how to reverse it correctly. It is absolutely possible, and frighteningly easy, to bend a chassis in the wrong way and make things worse. Definitely one of those situations where 'measure twice, bend once' is SOOOOO important.
So it basically acts as kind of a factory jig?
Here he is ladies and gentlemen. The man his ownself.
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You rock Mark!
Just make sure you buy enough 2x4s before you start!
You don't want to run out. I'd also suggest priming and painting it so it won't rot.
John
My advice is to use at least 5" steel caster wheels with locks.
This may be a dumb question but how do you get the 914 high enough to bolt it onto the rotisserie? Most of the rotisserie redesigns I have seen would require the 914 to be 3 to 4 ft off the ground to bolt it on.
To get it on the rotisserie, just borrow a set of 22" wheels.
Put on the 22s, bolt on the rotisserie, let the air out of the tires. take the wheels off, simple.
John
Lifting it manually is a great option. Also, the large jackstands can get it high enough, although slightly precarious.
Got the uprights built today, before I ran out of cutoff wheels.
Then left the shop without getting the pictures off my camera.
It's been a bit of a rough day.
Just one question. I plan on putting my 914 on a rotisserie but the front bumper holes are quite rusted. Is that a problem?
Thank you,
Lee
I know the bumper holes are the standard mounting point, and that is where I made mine for. But IMHO the best spot is the front suspension mount. I don't think I have ever seen one rotted there, it is a much more stout spot. My initial jig was intended to be a temp until I can make the permanent ones that will mount to the susension in the front and the trans mount in the rear. I plan to then make a complete under body jig to tie the front and rear together with pickup points for the suspension ears in the rear that can be used to locate the pass side when rust repair is done. By tying the front and rear together, the whole body is well braced for hell hole repairs, basically creating a light duty Cellete / rotisserie
Put the jack on the inside. Placing it on the outside you are pushing the framwork into itself. By placing it on the inside you are lifting directly verticle on the load point. I would also recommenr using a hydraulic jack like on an engine hoist and soild mounting it to the lower leg. The set you have planned is going to be a little awkward with having to jack,set pins, raise jack, re-jack reset pins etc. A bottle jacks throw is VERY limited, whereas the tyype I am using has a long throw and can be mounted on the base and left
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this
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Lee, you should fix the bumper mounts FIRST, then put it on the rotisserie.
Scotty, my thoughts on attaching to the front suspension/rear suspension points is that then you're dealing with a long lever arm, and lots of weight far away from the support structure. Are you concerned about this? Or do you have plans for additional support? Maybe that 'lever arm' isn't even a problem. Just thinking out loud...
Okay, pictures from yesterday. I also stopped and grabbed 16 new cutoff wheels. So I'm set for a little while. Hoping to get wheels mounted today...
BTW, this is some 3" square tubing scrap I've had laying around.
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To get the body on the rotisserie, you should strip off everything possible so the tub is as light as can be. Truth be told, I still left about 100 pounds of stuff on the tub that should have been removed first -- it would have been easier to lift the car onto the rotisserie uprights had I not rushed into it.
As mentioned above, using an in-floor lift or a combination of cherry pickers/A-frame hoists would be optimal, but human power works, too. For how I did it, I first mounted the rotisserie crossbar-mounts to the factory bumper holes. See post number 17 in the link below for details:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=83031&hl=suby+rustoration
As then explained in post number 21, I used a cherry picker to lift the rear of the tub while I slid in the rear rotisserie upright, and then three of us hefted the front up while a fourth person slid the front upright into the crossbar-mount. It really wasn't that difficult -- and I'm a 150 lb. weakling! I would say six normal-sized guys could lift the tub off jackstands while another person (or two) could slide the uprights into the crossbars.
I dismounted it by myself, because I have no friends. Actually, I built an A-frame/hoist during the 27 months the car was on the rotisserie so that I could raise the Subaru engine and trans into & out of the tub (again & again & again ) while on the rotisserie as I fabricated suitable mounts. See post number 169 for pics of how I lowered the car back onto jackstands solo. The combo of a cherry picker and A-frame/hoist worked great.
Your neighbors are going to love you...
Goeff, adding a ring to the top of your body cross member for an engine hoist is a great idea.
Got the wheels and the center legs completed. Now I need to get two more casters and figure out how to approach the rotational junction. The tube-in-tube setup works fine, but I'm hoping to see if I can find something slightly more elegant. Gotta shop McMaster-Carr.
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Are those casters big enough?
I am curious as to why you put the casters on the flat bar extensions versus putting them directly on the square tube. I would think it would be stronger on the square tube. Are they going to be bolted on?
Casters were from another project. If they die, I will weld new ones on. I welded angle iron on the end of the square tube because I was a little shorter on the side beams than I wanted to be, so this was my fix. If I notice those bending up, I'll add triangulation.
Part of this build is just using up crap I've got lying around the shop.
Those welds are far too nice for a rotisserie
Where are the farmer-blow welds that a rotisserie deserves?!?! Show-off...
Thank you for the responses. My rust is not as bad, but the metal is quite thin. Sorry for highjacking the thread, what can I use to repair that area? What metal thickness should I use?
Lee
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looks good.
the caster brackets look like ankle biters.
no more low rise converse in the shop : )
now you have to decide if it is faster to not strip the car down to do a repair or if stripping it down is a time saver.
jim
Finally found the bearing setup I wanted to make the rotation super smooth.
This also sticks with my plan to just try and use up crap I've got laying around the shop. So far I have $0 invested.
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I thought aboot using rear bearing's too..... 3 months after I had built mine
Mark,
This is on my unit I bought it for $1100. But it has a great indexing holder when you turn the car. It makes it very easy to work on the car at all different angles. With the Jacks it makes it very easy to make the car go to the perfect working height as well. Just some ideas for you.
Bob
I'm building a similar locking pin setup.
The hydraulics are nice, but beyond the scope of this project. I have a lift, so getting cars up and down is no problem.
I built my rotiserie a number of years ago.
I used a combination of 2 1/2" thick wall and thin wall tubing to allow for sliding of the tubes.
Had a local machinist bore 5/8" holes on a brigeport with 2" indexes.
Did the same thing for the slip tube except for 8" centers.
I then used two heavy wall tubes that were almost an interface fit and welded them on a plate.
Never needed a bearing. it already spins easy enough.
Turtled mine today
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Built it so I could break it down and store it.
Seems to be a permanent fixture in the garage
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Finally finished up the brackets for the rotisserie. Used some 1.75" DOM tubing, and 1" DOM tubing I had lying around. Works really well and all the nay-sayers from above were wrong. It rolls just fine and its super solid. I'm happy.
Yeah, it's a 911. 914 fixtures are next - gotta do the floor pans on the 914/6 project.
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Looks great! That is very innovative.
Now just add a motor and brakes. You already have the steering wheel.
John
I happen to be there when they were rolling it out of the shop, very stable rolled well, rotation was smooooth. Actually in person it's probably overkill, but it will last forever.
Nice job Mark
Jeff
Hey Mark I've got to build another for a 911 I have coming in next month and was concerned about mounting it under the car. Does it make it top heavy that way, or does it rotate fully without trying to take off ?
It's balanced enough to handle by myself. I had to adjust it quite a bit from where I initially built it. The center of gravity is still slightly lower than where I have it. I can detail this some more if you're interested.
It's not so much where you attach to the chassis, but how the brackets align the center of gravity of the chassis with the center of rotation of the rotisserie.
Time to build 914 fixtures since my restoration project has blossomed (see link in signature). Had this big square tube already.
Started at the body and got some 7/16" bolts that were long enough to put the attachments far away from the body to allow maximum paint access. Used some spare 1" DOM tubing for the standoffs. Welded the 7/16" washers to the end of the tubing so the bolts aren't flopping around. Cut some sections of angle iron and drilled a couple holes (held the piece up against the body at traced through the holes with a Sharpie). Bolted that all together against the body and welded the standoffs to the angle iron. The square tube was too long and I also needed the bar to go a little farther out. So I cut off the excess on either end and welded it to the angle iron, then welded the remaining tube on. The small pieces of tubing were already there, so I just left them in place. But it's already strong enough for me to stand on.
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Did I miss it or did everyone pass on saying...
It's an Original Custom Nice work
Just finished up the rear bar. Tomorrow it goes up...
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Can't wait to put this to "good" use next year ...
Nice!
I'm going to try out the methods described in http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=22 to find the true center of rotation. Hopefully this will avoid the guess-n-check-n-fix cycle for getting a good rotation. Plus this info would be easily repeatable for the next guy who builds a rotisserie.
Love the steering wheel!
914 fixtures complete!
Spent a lot of time getting the balance as close as possible. The tech article I tried (link above) to find the CGH didn't pan out. I think the problem was the cheapass bathroom scales I was using. The resolution needed is much finer to get any sort of accurate measurement.
But through guess and check I found that placing the center of rotation about 1" below the 'lip' on the both the front and the rear (see pics below) yields a balanced stock 914 body (no reinforcements welded in). I can spin the car without effort and it will stop in any orientation without tightening the locking bolts. I'm really happy.
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Yes.
Paint it yellow...the work will go faster!
What type of chassis leaning against the wall in top pic in post #62 ??? Just curiuos ...
Jack
Type3 VW chassis. We welded new pans on it.
Ahh , thought so , but wasn't 100% sure . VW work abounds in the right place , your garage !!! Great work Mark , keep it coming .Original Customs , even rotisseries !!!
Jack
914 Limo on the rotisserie!!!
914 Limo on the rotisserie!!!
914 Limo on the rotisserie!!!
Think of the respect 914 World will get from the Porsche world for that.
John
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