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Posted by: yeahmag Feb 2 2012, 12:49 AM

Installed crank, gears, cam, and rods. Dry fit CB's dry sump pump and modified the tang and clearanced drive tang boss.

Posted by: RobW Feb 2 2012, 01:01 AM

QUOTE(yeahmag @ Feb 1 2012, 10:49 PM)

Installed crank, gears, cam, and rods. Dry fit CB's dry sump pump and modified the tang and clearanced drive tang boss.

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Feb 2 2012, 06:43 AM

Cool! Wish I had the guts to attempt a rebuild. One day!

Posted by: jaxdream Feb 2 2012, 09:06 AM

Will the fan housing bolt up / clear the new pump ?? Or are using another cooling option ?? Looks good !!!

Jack

Posted by: mrbubblehead Feb 2 2012, 09:52 AM

what are you going to do about your engine mounts?

Posted by: yeahmag Feb 2 2012, 10:46 AM

I will need to modify the fan housing to clear the oil pump. I will also have to custom make some motor mounts.

Posted by: mrbubblehead Feb 2 2012, 03:55 PM

you are one step ahead of me. i am doing the same as you. same pump also.....

i just finished all my case mods, and concentrating on building my sump tank.

did you hav to grind your cam bolts? do you remember how much you took off the snout of the pump?

i am going to use tangerine racing's horizontal fan set up, so my engine mounts shouldnt be a problem.

Posted by: yeahmag Feb 2 2012, 04:01 PM

I ground about 2mm off that pump. Maybe more. I also made the tang have some angle at the end like the stock tangs. I made the tang length match the one I got from Raby years ago. I took a bit off the boss holding the drive tang to make sure it was clear of the cam. I probably took off 1mm at most on the boss.

I did grind my cam bolts to be safe, but I probably didn't have to with the ones Jake sent me.

What case mods did you do?

Posted by: mrbubblehead Feb 2 2012, 04:16 PM

since im not using the stock oil cooler or stock oil filter i took them out of the circuit. i also welded up the relief holes and took both relief system out of the circuit also.

Posted by: yeahmag Feb 2 2012, 04:19 PM

How are you routing the oil for the pressure stage? The galley from the pressure side of the pump goes right to the oil filter...

Posted by: mrbubblehead Feb 2 2012, 06:18 PM

i used this diagram

and modified it to this

1. jaycee 3 port remote oil filter/relief @ 80 psi
2. remote oil cooler
3. sump tank

in my picture you can see i welded a fitting on the passage from the pump (where the old filter stand was)

then it goes thru the remote filter, oil cooler, and then straight to the mains via the oil cooler location. another welded fitting. i just cut of the the old cooler stand off the case.

Posted by: yeahmag Feb 2 2012, 09:41 PM

Here are pictures of the pistons after going through the ultrasonic cleaner and then me balancing them. I used a 1g scale, a 1/2" drill bit, and an air powered angle grinder with a small sanding disk (just to clean up any sharp edges). The all are at 570g now. They were as much a 3g out. Weights ranged from 570g to 573g.

Posted by: Valy Feb 2 2012, 11:20 PM

QUOTE(mrbubblehead @ Feb 2 2012, 04:18 PM)

i used this diagram

and modified it to this

1. jaycee 3 port remote oil filter/relief @ 80 psi
2. remote oil cooler
3. sump tank

in my picture you can see i welded a fitting on the passage from the pump (where the old filter stand was)

then it goes thru the remote filter, oil cooler, and then straight to the mains via the oil cooler location. another welded fitting. i just cut of the the old cooler stand off the case.

Posted by: jmill Feb 3 2012, 07:07 PM

I was thinking the same thing. Somehow youi need to get the oil in the tank to the suction side of the pump. All the dry sump systems I've seen have a scavenge and a pressure pump.

Posted by: mrbubblehead Feb 3 2012, 07:22 PM

QUOTE(jmill @ Feb 3 2012, 05:07 PM)

I was thinking the same thing. Somehow youi need to get the oil in the tank to the suction side of the pump. All the dry sump systems I've seen have a scavenge and a pressure pump.

Posted by: Woody Feb 3 2012, 07:48 PM

You are going to love that engine.

Posted by: mrbubblehead Feb 4 2012, 04:18 PM

any more progress yeahman? do you know what you are going to use for a sump tank yet?

Posted by: yeahmag Feb 14 2012, 11:32 AM

Been cleaning parts like mad. Finally ready to close the case up after checking the fit of the drive tang and boss on the CB dry sump pump.

I also got around to modifying the oil filter housing. I used a slide hammer with a small, blind bearing pull attachment and removed the bypass system. I then cut an AL slug to fit and MIG'ed it in.

With regards to the tank, I'm using a very nice Patterson tank that Blake sold me. I'll be mounting it up front and trying to figure out how to mount an oil cooler up there too.

Posted by: yeahmag May 24 2012, 12:22 PM

OK. The long block is together and I'm starting on the valve train geometry. Here are some pic's:

The head after using Ajax to lap the cylinders

Posted by: yeahmag May 24 2012, 12:23 PM

After the copper spray to help with the carbon seal.

Posted by: yeahmag May 24 2012, 12:24 PM

Long block together (more or less).

Posted by: yeahmag May 24 2012, 12:25 PM

Ported the hell out of the CB Dry Sump Pump and made a custom engine bar bracket (which you can just barely make out).

Posted by: yeahmag May 24 2012, 12:26 PM

Shot of the heads with Jakes "super" option. 911 adjusters, new 8mm studs, solid spacers, etc...

That's all for now!

Posted by: Valy May 24 2012, 01:39 PM

Those studs look to short to me.
And it looks to me that you need to shim the shafts more but that may be just the camera angle.

Posted by: yeahmag May 24 2012, 02:10 PM

The nuts are just there to keep the rockers from falling off if I space and turn the motor over on the stand. In that shot I had *not* started setting the geometry.

Posted by: yeahmag May 29 2012, 06:05 PM

Jake appears to like where I have my valve train geometry:

Intake: .438"
Exhaust: .412"
@ 50% lift adjuster and valve are perpendicular for both intake and exhaust.

1 full turn of adjustment available "in" available before bottoming out the foot with a .060" shim on the stands.



Off to cut the pushrods!

Posted by: yeahmag Jun 6 2012, 12:19 PM

Measuring my pushrod tips using a flat table and a custom fixture made of fixture plate. Notice one of them differs by .002" - .003". Not sure if keying off the "flat" of the ball is valid, but still interesting to find one out of 8 with a variation.

Posted by: Valy Jun 6 2012, 03:40 PM

I would not measure them this way. Error is much higher than the 0.03" you measured, mostly because the dial-meter is probably not perfectly perpendicular to the table, the arm holding it has some elasticity and moves and you're measuring a round surface.

I suggest you take a micrometer and measure the rod head with the holding jig and then subtract the jig width.

Posted by: yeahmag Jun 6 2012, 04:14 PM

Nah... The rig is designed for telescopes and is on a flat table. The table is accurate to .001" across the *entire* surface and the tool plate is accurate to .001" across a 3' length. This micrometer rig is over $10K and I can't even guess what that huge hunk of rock of a table cost.

We surfaced the plate on the same flat table to be sure and then ran the tool plate under the micrometer to make sure there were no deviations.

7 of the 8 tips all came back within .001". Just one came back at .003" out. This was absolutely repeatable. I did first check them with calipers, but the end of the taper is not machined and made it impossible to hold a tolerance.

In an ideal world I would be measuring centerline to centerline of the ball and not keying off the flats at the end as I suspect they are not machined to a tight tolerance there.

Posted by: yeahmag Jun 6 2012, 04:16 PM

Here is a wider shot so you get a better feel for what we were doing.



That's no kitchen counter top!!!

Posted by: Valy Jun 6 2012, 04:24 PM

The cost of the measuring equipment doesn't beat the physic laws

This is all you need. Cheep and more accurate than your big setup for this measurement. The finest dust particle at the base of your long arm will be distort your measurement big time.

Posted by: yeahmag Jun 6 2012, 04:42 PM

I don't want to debat this too much, but this simply isn't the case. The primary problem with the method you are suggesting is that ***in my case*** the bottom of the tip (opposite the ball) is not machined to any specific tolerance. Other tips from other vendors may be different.

Additionally, you can't measure from the shoulder to the flat on the tip with that tool as the ball is smaller than the shoulder. You would be measuring on an angle... Again, that's how my pushrods and tips are. Others may be different.

The rig I used was repeatable, which if nothing else shows me variances between parts. The micrometer and it's arm is stationary and the tip and tool plate was moved in and out. I imagine Carnegie would have a hell of a lot of telescopes not working if this guy didn't know what the hell he was doing...

But in my book, building these things is half the fun. Do what works for you! I can't remember what Jake always says, but it's something like, "...this is where you become the engine builder."

Posted by: Valy Jun 6 2012, 05:39 PM

QUOTE(yeahmag @ Jun 6 2012, 03:42 PM)

Posted by: yeahmag Jun 11 2012, 12:22 PM

This weekend I finished my valve train. I ended up somewhat redoing my rockers as originally I had ground them by hand on a grinding wheel (over 7 years ago!) and used a caliper to try and keep them square. Previously I was using Ford Courier style adjusters (captured ball), this wasn't good enough for the 911 adjusters...

I jigged them in the mill with a carbide ball end mill (to give a radius at the arm) and made them all *exactly* the same thickness as the thinnest of the group. That got all my adjusters where I wanted them to be. It's amazing how far some of them were off!

Pushrod tubes were assembled with Viton o-rings and a little Loctite-565. Finished up with a "loose zero" valve adjustment.

Things should start to come together fast now!

Posted by: yeahmag Aug 16 2012, 11:19 AM

While not quite part of the engine build I thought these interesting. Here is a picture of Chris' inner suspension console reinforcement piece all welded in:



Luckily the metal behind it was absolutely perfect. I was starting to get concerned due to running high spring rates (and wanting to go higher) along with DOT-R tires. Here it is painted:



We did both left and right sides with a TIG and in addition seamed welded as much of the ear as we could reach.

Posted by: yeahmag Nov 5 2012, 11:47 AM

It's been quite a while, but I have been working! I've got all the holes drilled in the chassis for the scavenge side and am working on the return now. I also finally made the breather set up that enlarges the case breather (-10AN in my case) and blocks off the heads.

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 5 2012, 12:30 PM

Cool engine build!

John

Posted by: yeahmag Nov 5 2012, 04:59 PM

Forgot to show the port matching of the CB manifolds to the stock, 2.0 head gaskets...

Posted by: yeahmag Nov 25 2012, 09:07 PM

A few more... I have the scavenge line run up the passenger side, so it's time to get the oil cooler going. I got a Mercedes Benz oil cooler from Bruce and put a bend in it to match the curve of the front bumper. I then cut the original fittings off, welded them shut, and added -10AN fittings to the ends of the tank (vs. the face as original).

Posted by: yeahmag Nov 25 2012, 09:08 PM

Posted by: 396 Nov 27 2012, 09:00 AM

Cool engine build- oh thanks for the education too.

Posted by: Cupomeat Nov 27 2012, 09:44 AM

QUOTE(yeahmag @ May 24 2012, 01:25 PM)

Ported the hell out of the CB Dry Sump Pump and made a custom engine bar bracket (which you can just barely make out).

Posted by: yeahmag Nov 27 2012, 10:39 AM

Just the two lowers.

Posted by: yeahmag Dec 11 2012, 06:04 PM

Some craptastic iPhone photos of the progress. Passenger side scavenge side oil line run and the holes are drilled for the drivers side return. I still have to actually hook the lines up and clean up the install a bit.

Posted by: mrbubblehead Dec 11 2012, 07:15 PM

looks good. what size is that? -8, -10?

Posted by: yeahmag Dec 11 2012, 07:31 PM

-10 on the scavenge side. -12 for most of the run, necking down to -10 at the very end for the return.

Posted by: Gint Dec 11 2012, 07:39 PM

Nice! When do you fire it?

Posted by: pete-stevers Dec 11 2012, 11:20 PM

how did you bend the oil cooler?

Posted by: yeahmag Dec 12 2012, 10:56 AM

I bent the cooler in a press supporting it with 2x4's and then another 2x4 perpendicular in the middle to distribute the load. It's not perfect, but should work.

Not real sure when I'll start it, I'm guessing early January.

Posted by: 914_teener Dec 14 2012, 02:22 PM

QUOTE(yeahmag @ Dec 12 2012, 08:56 AM)

Posted by: yeahmag Dec 14 2012, 04:58 PM

Soon they will be packed full of DOT-R rubber pieces again!

Posted by: yeahmag Jan 30 2013, 12:38 PM

Here are some pic's of my mock up of the tank, thermostat, and catch can:



...along with the return T for changing the oil:

Posted by: mrbubblehead Jan 30 2013, 07:26 PM

nice yeamag. i did the same thing with the T fitting it makes oil changes a snap. I'm using the same thermostat also. i chose that one because of all the ports for the sensors. cool project....

btw my plug on my T fitting is male, so i drilled a 1/16 hole in it and safety wire that sucker. you should think about doing the same some how. that would be a shame to lose that cap and roast your new engine....

Posted by: yeahmag Jan 30 2013, 08:23 PM

Good idea! Not sure it has any higher probability of coming undone than ant other fitting, but no need to tempt fate.

Posted by: mrbubblehead Jan 30 2013, 08:25 PM

your right. piece of mind i guess.

Posted by: yeahmag Feb 10 2013, 10:59 PM

And passenger side is finally done.

Posted by: mrbubblehead Feb 10 2013, 11:35 PM

looks good yeamag. those an fittings sure get expensive after you buy a couple dozen of them. right?

Posted by: yeahmag Feb 14 2013, 01:42 PM

...and yet more fittings to be ordered.

Posted by: mrbubblehead Feb 14 2013, 02:43 PM

that looks awesome bro. im glad summit has the return policy that they do.... its hard to anticipate every single bend and what degree you need. i end up over ordering and then send back what i dont use. cuz you never know if the bend you need is gonna work until you have it in your hand.....

Posted by: yeahmag Feb 25 2013, 12:51 AM

Got a little bit more done. Been thrashing for a few weeks on a TAG and shifter karts, so I'm a bit behind. Had fun in them at Cal Speedway on Saturday though!

Posted by: yeahmag Mar 4 2013, 10:53 PM

Really just a matter of making it look good and putting the gas tank in. With any luck I'll start it Sunday!

Posted by: yeahmag Mar 4 2013, 11:10 PM

...and if anybody has any words of wisdom how to prime all of this I'll take it. Right now I'm just planning on putting 3 quarts in the engine and filling the tank 3/4 of the way and cranking for pressure. After that topping the tank up to 1/2-3/4 and cranking for pressure again. One final top off to make sure i'm above 1/2 way and firing the motor.

Before I drive it I'll probably pop a fitting off the oil cooler and fill it... It's huge.

Posted by: mrbubblehead Mar 4 2013, 11:55 PM

good luck bro. sounds like a good plan. the only thing i can think of is to fill the remote oil filter and pull the spark plugs. but im sure you already new that...

Posted by: yeahmag Mar 5 2013, 12:50 AM

I've actually read more than once that filling the oil filter makes it harder to prime the system, but I neglected to mention that the initial prime will have the oil filter ***off*** until I see oil squirting out. And yup, plugs are out. I have a giant, deep cell battery that I'll be using to turn her over with initially to save my little "red top".

Posted by: mrbubblehead Mar 5 2013, 01:19 AM

QUOTE(yeahmag @ Mar 4 2013, 10:50 PM)

Posted by: yeahmag Mar 5 2013, 10:20 AM

Nope. I did remove the bypass and weld it shut in the stock oil cooler mount though.

Posted by: mrbubblehead Mar 5 2013, 12:10 PM

mine took alot of cranking to get the light to go out. an i pre oiled every thing i could. i think its just the nature of the beast for a dry sump. it sure is a tense few minutes while cranking tho. you will be thinking about every single thing that could go wrong in those few minutes of cranking. LOL then a big sigh of relief when the light goes out.

then its the 20 minute cam break in.

then its hammer time. i swear my rings broke in less than 20 miles....

Posted by: Racer Chris Mar 5 2013, 12:32 PM

Aaron,
Did you grease the gears in the pump to help it prime more quickly?

Posted by: yeahmag Mar 5 2013, 12:37 PM

No. I've had bad luck with that in the past with the pump not priming. I think the grease somehow blocked something as when it did finally go I got a big glop out of the oil filter boss.

Per your PM I'll let the return "drain" to the point I get some out my drain (which is close to the case) and then use my Motiv to pressurize the system via the tank. I'll do my best to block the vent and the scavenge line. I might even try to let it sit long enough to see if I can get some oil to come out the oil filter boss.

Posted by: Racer Chris Mar 5 2013, 12:51 PM

I think the type of grease used is critical to that method succeeding.
If I'm not mistaken, white lithium grease is recommended.
However, I think all I've ever used is Redline assembly lube inside the pump.

Posted by: yeahmag Mar 5 2013, 12:53 PM

Knowing me I used wheel bearing grease and screwed myself! I think it will prime OK with pressurizing the system.

Posted by: dfelz Mar 5 2013, 05:36 PM

I like your set up a lot, looks really good. are you cutting out anything behind the cooler?? or is the exit of hot air just right back into atmospheric area between bumper and front clip??

Posted by: yeahmag Mar 5 2013, 05:46 PM

Yes. No cutting of the body.

Posted by: dfelz Mar 5 2013, 06:09 PM

Very cool, i saw you had a CB dry sump pump, are the aftermarket pumps similar for doing a dry sump set up compared to just adding a front mounted cooler?

Posted by: Racer Chris Mar 5 2013, 08:04 PM

QUOTE(dfelz @ Mar 5 2013, 07:09 PM)

Posted by: yeahmag Mar 11 2013, 09:59 AM

Just a quick update. Priming the system was no harder than any other pump. I got fairly quickly 20PSI under the starter alone with the plugs out. Now I need to figure out what is wrong with the ignition...

Posted by: yeahmag Apr 3 2013, 11:07 AM

Drove it in to work yesterday and man did that feel good! Car felt great running it up and down the rpms like a jack ass to help seat the rings. No leaks, great temps, still needs a bit of tuning on the carbs (damn CB linkage is my nemesis) and the timing and valves checked for a second time, but no complaints. Cam (86a) really makes the car want to rev. Glad I put in dual springs! At 6K it feels like it's still building power!

Now for the reassembly of the interior, rocker panels, etc... The car should be at The Festival of Speed on Saturday at some point. Not racing yet, just for fun.

-Aaron

Posted by: yeahmag Apr 9 2013, 10:52 AM

First long distance outing was driving to Cal Speedway on Saturday to the Porsche Festival of Speed. Tons and tons of Porsche's and some good racing. Car ran like a top to and from the event. Only issue I had was low oil pressure at idle (right around 7lbs) when hot (180F). I'm hoping that the root cause is that I still have about a 50% of the total volume oil being Brad Penn Break-In Oil (30wt) as I can only drain about 6-7 quarts out of the 11-12 quarts it holds. If it doesn't improve after the second or third change I'll probably pull the pump and change from a gasket and sealant to just the sealant (Loctite 518) to try and decrease the clearance between the cover and the pump gears.

Good news is the oil cooler works like a charm (never saw more than 180F) and head temps are close to perfect (350F-375F on the freeway at 72mph). I'd like to drop 25F on the heads if I can. I'm planning on testing taking 2 degrees of timing out. I may also up my air correction jets from 180 - 200 to bring the mains on a bit sooner.

Posted by: yeahmag Apr 24 2013, 09:17 PM

Had some minor surgery on my throat last Monday, so it's been nothing but percocet, discovery channel, and apple sauce for the past 10 days or so. Today I did manage to install my used Rennshift!



I massaged the center console to allow it to work with the new shifter. Now as soon as my replacement dizzy cap comes tomorrow I can test it. Sure feels nice though!

Posted by: yeahmag Apr 24 2013, 09:24 PM

It did make a "squeak" that seemed to be coming from the center tunnel. I found this with my cheap scope.



I think that's left over from when my clutch tube broke out. It's just past the reinforcement (I think) in the center tunnel; very close to the heater flap lever. What you see is the shift rod running from the upper left toward the center of the picture. It's obviously scraping on that broken mount. So, while I have the welder out to fix the crack in my inner longitudinal I'll cut open the tunnel and fix this up too. I guess the Rennshift must put the shift rod at a slightly different angle than the stock shifter does as I never would have noticed this without changing shifters.

Posted by: worn Apr 30 2013, 08:01 PM

QUOTE(yeahmag @ Apr 24 2013, 07:24 PM)

It did make a "squeak" that seemed to be coming from the center tunnel. I found this with my cheap scope.



I think that's left over from when my clutch tube broke out. It's just past the reinforcement (I think) in the center tunnel; very close to the heater flap lever. What you see is the shift rod running from the upper left toward the center of the picture. It's obviously scraping on that broken mount. So, while I have the welder out to fix the crack in my inner longitudinal I'll cut open the tunnel and fix this up too. I guess the Rennshift must put the shift rod at a slightly different angle than the stock shifter does as I never would have noticed this without changing shifters.