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Posted by: J P Stein Jan 16 2003, 04:56 AM

you may ask.....
"The middle of next month" was the time frame for my new, ultra trick, semi adjustable, upper strut mounts. Brad tole me that last month.

I NEED more widgets. Please, O great sphincter, speak!

Posted by: 914Timo Jan 16 2003, 05:31 AM

......widgets.......sphincter.......!!!!

I don´t understand a word

I have to say you talk funny JP. But, don´t care about my comments. I am newbie understanding your slang.

Could you tell more about those upper strut mounts ?? What kind of mounts you have (finally) concluded ??

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 16 2003, 10:09 AM

A "widget" is a gizmo and a"sphincter" is what Brad is, an asshole.

Geoff

Posted by: Tony C Jan 16 2003, 10:16 AM

One of us, Brad or myself, will call and see what the status is.

-Tony

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 16 2003, 03:43 PM

Damned if I know, but Brad says they're the latest and greatest, so I gotta have em'

Thanx, Tony.

Posted by: Jeroen Jan 16 2003, 04:54 PM

Hey JP,

This time, make sure your not the guinny-pig (sp?) and let someone else do the testfitting


Cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: scottb Jan 16 2003, 05:14 PM

a sphincter... a muscle that by contracting will narrow or close an orifice. however, in order to get the muscle to relax, it must be stimulated. is this an accurate description of brad?

i knew the masters in anatomy would come in handy someday!

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jan 16 2003, 05:54 PM

Jesus.. I'm calling now.. LOL

B

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 16 2003, 06:02 PM

Brad just needs a few beers and he's plenty simulated and relaxed. Hell, he will even skateboard backwards!
Geoff

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jan 16 2003, 06:08 PM

Rich and Jerry are in the dyno room until 6pm. I chatted with Gary Walton (Richs dad) and he said they had not been released, but he could "get" me a pair for my waiting customer. He still wanted to chat with Rich before mailing anything out.

They tested them all last year on Richs 911.


B

Posted by: Gint Jan 16 2003, 09:56 PM

I'm not touchin any of that....

Where the hell is DD when you really need him?

Posted by: campbellcj Jan 16 2003, 10:03 PM

Hey Tony & B - not to steal JP's post, but it looks like I might be able to "afford" the class points to do the camber boxes and front coil-overs.

That doesn't mean for sure I can afford the $$, but I'm working on that part. So many projects, so little cash...

My current Weltmeister strut top camber thingies would be donated to the cause (whatever cause that is).

I need to decide ASAP if I should use a traditional box fuel cell (I can get one for practially free) versus the $$bendover$$ but slick Patrick stock-type setup. I know Tony got Richard's camber boxes done with a stock tank, but what is "optimal"?

Posted by: Tony C Jan 16 2003, 10:31 PM

Hi Chris, On Richard's car I could have got about -3.5deg of camber, more than you would ever need with a proper suspension. I think time wise it would be about the same to: 1) Mount the camber boxes using the stock bulkhead and tank style or 2) remove the bulhead, install the camber boxes, and fabricate a fuel cell mount. I would go for the standard fuel cell as the weight is mounted lower, although yes a little more foward. Figure about 16 hours either way including the install of the coilovers. Let me know if you have any further questions. Plan on spending a weekend up in Norcal this time, I can't do this one "overnight."

-Tony

Posted by: campbellcj Jan 16 2003, 10:57 PM

Thanks Tony, sounds like a plan. I will let you know when I'm ready to roll with this. It will be a few months most likely.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jan 17 2003, 06:09 PM

JP,

Your shit out of luck (we can say that here) Gary called me back today and said Hayden wasnt done with a design change (Hayden is WEVO) 30-60 days out.


I dont know what to tell you.


B

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 17 2003, 09:00 PM

"Well, Stan, this is a fine mess you've gotten us iinto"

Thanx for trying, Brad. Not to worry, i've been on my own before.
I habe options, I think.

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 18 2003, 07:35 PM

SO?

We have begun to search for the elusive offset upper strut mount.

Chris C seems to have what I need, but I've got a few Qs.
From the one pic I've seen, it appears that the is room on the inside of the mount for inner fender clearance. Chirs, is that true?
As I recall, you ar running 1.5 deg negative at present.
Is there room for more adjustment to the negtive side?
These are the Welts?

I have also emailed the maker of the ones on Jeff Hays'
killer 914. I'll let all know bout that........being as there is such a high degree of interest

Posted by: Jeroen Jan 18 2003, 07:51 PM

Hey JP,

Have you seen these?
http://www.tarett.com/strut_mount.htm

they also make good looking swaybars imo. not as fancy as the smartracing ones, but they look WAY better than the Weltmeisters.
not much more expensive than the welts either (welts+adjustible droplinks are about $400 iirc)

Triad (you know, from the mufflers) also has top-mounts with sph.bearings, but I dunno if they have offset mounts to provide for extra negative camber
http://triadwestperformance.com/

Cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 18 2003, 09:20 PM

No, Jeroen, I didn;t know about these.....pricy SOBs....what the hell, it's only money. When the wife gets the Visa bill it's :gilloutine: for me, anyhow.

I did know bout the Triads....nice, but no offest.
Thanx for the link.

Posted by: Jeroen Jan 18 2003, 10:24 PM

Hey JP,

Yep, they're expensive...
Did you get a guesstimate for the smartracing strutmounts?
What's the hurry?
Why not wait the extra time for those (that way your creditcard can recoop as well)?

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jan 18 2003, 11:20 PM

Tarret was the first place I called. I chat with him quite abit.

I think Chris' can be flipped to run on the other side.

B

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 18 2003, 11:27 PM

Why?
I know of 2 or 3 other guys that sell these things. These are not rocket parts. Redesign?.......I'll keep my thoughts to myself, here.
Don't misunderstand, Brad was trying to do me a favor and save me a few bucks. I appreciate that, but I've waited long enuff. AX starts early March.

I'd like to get done ahead of schedule, for once, and have a couple weekends for getting the car dialed. You've heard of scheduled completion dates for a 914, eh, Jeroen?... Jeroen?

Posted by: Jeroen Jan 19 2003, 12:03 PM

Hey JP,

Well, you've got schedules and you've got schedules...
I'll wait 'till march and see how much of your schedule worked out

(maybe we can set up a poll here... who thinks JP's car will be ready BEFORE the first autox event in march)

Schedule for my car... I don't have a schedule!
Never said I did (was wise enough not to make one )

It WOULD be nice if I could take the 914 for a couple of parade-laps on the LeMans track during the LeMans Classic (september 2004)

But that's an "it would be nice..." and that's NOT a schedule

Cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 19 2003, 01:16 PM

Heh, heh......I'll resist twisting the knife.

I also have to schedule (there's that wurd again) a trip to the alignment shop.

My alignment guy already hates me & ulf.....get in the line, sucker.
He's gonna shit kittens when he sees this latest iteration....which reminds me.
Brad, you were gonna give some AX alignment specs.
I'm pretty much fixiated on 2.5 deg neg. at both ends and 4 .75 in (measured to the doughnuts) for ride height.
The rest is up in the air.

Posted by: campbellcj Jan 19 2003, 02:24 PM

JP - visually it looks like I have room for more neg camber in the front. We will find out exactly how much when I get my 2nd set of wheels and realign the car. IIRC Brad has found that even with the 205 Hoosiers you don't need a "ton" of neg camber (1.6-1.9 sticks in my mind?), but I suspect they will need more than the current setting.

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 19 2003, 03:04 PM

It seems (from what I can gather) that there is a trend towards more negative camber by the AX crew.
Dunno where this got going. Maybe someone was watching how much negative camber CART teams dial in for tight street courses.
Tire temps will tell the tale, I guess.

Posted by: seanery Jan 19 2003, 03:50 PM

Does more neg camber heat up quicker?

If so, that may be the reason AX guys do it.

Posted by: Van914 Jan 19 2003, 07:37 PM

J.P,
What are you running on the front for the toe setting? Also what are you running on the rear for toe settings? I would think a little toe out on the front to help turn in and 0 on the rear.

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 19 2003, 07:49 PM

I was running stock settings. Now, I have suspension bits laying all over the shop so I'm presently running none. I'm lookin for info, so thanx.

As an aside, I got together with my AX pard today.
We were talkin car stuff. It got to the strut mounts and he says "hey, go buy some and I'll pay ya for em"......he ain't one much for dinking around, apparently. I talked him into splitting the cost. Come tommorrow, I call Tarret.

Posted by: Jeroen Jan 19 2003, 09:19 PM

Tell Tarett that I send you, or I'll miss out on my commission
Or even better, send me the address of your autox buddy!

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: Tony C Jan 19 2003, 10:41 PM

Why Cart and any other team running a street circut uses more camber is because the cars are set up much softer. This increases the amount of roll. To offset the camber loss in roll you must dial in more camber at static ride height.
Why an Auto-x car would need more negative camber is along the same lines. However for some cars in auto-x you do some really weird things, so it is very hard to compare an auto-x car to a car set-up for road racing. For example most correctly set-up auto-x cars would have a large amount of oversteer on a road course in medium and high speed corners.

-Tony C

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 19 2003, 10:51 PM

He's a good guy.
It's a good deal for both of us.
He doesn't have to spend BIG bucks for a hot motor in his car. I get help with expenses.
I warm the tires, he goes fast....a hell of a deal.

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 19 2003, 10:54 PM

Tony:
Now that you're here, I was really lookin for toe, F & R and caster.

Posted by: Tony C Jan 19 2003, 11:18 PM

For auto-x you are going to want 0-to- 1/8th toe out in the front and 0-to1/16 toe in in the rear. How much horsepower do you have? You may have to run a little more rear toe. As for caster, the more the better!

-Tony

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jan 19 2003, 11:30 PM

Typical caster settings for a couple of PCA parade winning 914 AutoX 6 cyl cars has been 5.5 to 6 degrees of caster. Testing has shown minimal gains past 6.

B

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 19 2003, 11:31 PM

How much hp?...not enuff !!

Dunno, really, 210-220.

Posted by: Tony C Jan 19 2003, 11:44 PM

JP, 1/6 toe in should be fine in the rear for that hp.

-Tony C

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 19 2003, 11:55 PM

Thanx, Tony.